1 John 4:18 - Who is made perfect in love?

[mrvargas]

Hi All,

I was reading this last night and had a question about love driving out fear. I was thinking of those who receive punishment, yet are purified after they die. Does this verse not apply to those? Maybe it is just for the living?

1 John 4:18 18 "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." NIV

"Fear is not in love, but perfect love is casting out fear, for fear has chastening. Now he who is fearing is not perfected in love. (Concordant version)

If one that is fearing cannot be perfect in love, how can one be in love yet have fear?

If someone has fear in the afterlife/hell, how can love drive out that fear, if that one cannot be perfected or purified?

If fear has punishment/torment, does this torment have a purpose?

Marin

[Tony N]

Concerning 1 John 4:17 etc.
1Jo 4:17-19  In this is love perfected with us, that we may have boldness in the day of judging, seeing that, according as He is, so are we also in this world."  (18)  Fear is not in love, but perfect love is casting out fear, for fear has chastening. Now he who is fearing is not perfected in love."  (19)  We are loving God, for He first loves us."


"The day of judgment there spoken of is not the so-called "general judgment", of which the Scriptures know nothing, but one of the many judgments which it makes known. It is difficult to imagine this judgment in some far-off future day. It is spoken of as a time when love will give boldness and cast out fear. As the believer of this present economy cannot by any means come into condemnation, and shall not enter any judgment, we shall do well to leave this experience with the Circumcision, to whom John wrote. They will enter the day of judgment which precedes the day of the Lord. They will pass through the terrible tribulations portrayed in the Unveiling. Heaven above will conspire with the earth beneath to pour out God's hoarded indignation upon the earth. The earth will reel, the stars will fall, the elements will be charged with death. In such a time there will be much meaning to the passage we are considering. Nothing but perfect love, that is, love in the maturity of its powers, will be able to stand unshakable in that day." (A.E. Knoch, Concordant Commentary)

[Doc]

Concerning 1 John 4:17 etc.
1Jo 4:17-19  In this is love perfected with us, that we may have boldness in the day of judging, seeing that, according as He is, so are we also in this world."  (18)  Fear is not in love, but perfect love is casting out fear, for fear has chastening. Now he who is fearing is not perfected in love."  (19)  We are loving God, for He first loves us."


"The day of judgment there spoken of is not the so-called "general judgment", of which the Scriptures know nothing, but one of the many judgments which it makes known. It is difficult to imagine this judgment in some far-off future day. It is spoken of as a time when love will give boldness and cast out fear. As the believer of this present economy cannot by any means come into condemnation, and shall not enter any judgment, we shall do well to leave this experience with the Circumcision, to whom John wrote. They will enter the day of judgment which precedes the day of the Lord. They will pass through the terrible tribulations portrayed in the Unveiling. Heaven above will conspire with the earth beneath to pour out God's hoarded indignation upon the earth. The earth will reel, the stars will fall, the elements will be charged with death. In such a time there will be much meaning to the passage we are considering. Nothing but perfect love, that is, love in the maturity of its powers, will be able to stand unshakable in that day." (A.E. Knoch, Concordant Commentary)

Interesting. This lines up quite well with people's "judgment" experiences they have during NDE's.

[martincisneros]

1John 2:5 says that those who keep His Word have the love of God perfected in them.  That's how all fear gets driven or choked out.  Fear tries to make the Word unproductive in your life.  Fear's the bottomline of the issues raised in Mark 4: affliction, persecution, cares of this world, deceitfulness of riches, and lust [or pressures] of other things.  Fear tries to say that the Word won't work this time (John 15:7; Mark 11:24).  It tries to use affliction, persecution, cares of this world, deceitfulness of riches, and the pressures of other things of this present eon as circumstantial evidence to try to convince you that your stand of faith on God's Promises, expecting the glory of God to manifest and bring about your participation in the divine nature where this particular circumstance, situation, and/or need is concerned isn't going to work. 

But the things that are seen are temporary and the things that are unseen through the veil of this present age are age-lasting, or in other words, if you'll stand your ground the devil won't be able to steal God's provision in every situation that you're dealing with and the Word will produce 100-fold+ every time once you've reached that place in your sowing and watering the Word by faith where it's driven out all of the fear.  Keeping every thought a captive of Christ, according to 2Corinthians 10:3-6 is what fulfills or completes our obedience.  Baring fruit in the Kingdom eventually winds up being so easy that it's ridiculous when all of the fear is gone.  Fear can't stand the pressure of the thanksgiving of a saint of God.  Just keep giving superexcessive thanks, according to Colossians 2:6-7 over every provision of the finished work of Christ where your spirit, soul, body, finances, and social life or ministry are concerned and the devil won't be able to steal it faster than God will replace it.  God's grace is sufficient for the casting out of any thorn of the flesh.  We can stand rejoicing with St. Paul that we likewise have been delivered of all of these afflictions.

When love is being perfected, that's when you're the most apt to start enjoying with real regularity the ministry of angels, according to Hebrews 1:13-14.  Psalm 112 describes a believer that's had all of their fear cast out by diligently abiding in the Word and having the Word dwell in them richly.  The wicked see it and are grieved and the desire of the wicked perishes.  When all fear is cast out, that's when you wind up being the most fruitful in sharing the Word with the nations and bringing entire nations to affirm the Lordship of Jesus Christ over their nation, as has been happening over the last 15 to 20 years where the Word of God has been diligently kept by the ambassadors of Christ in those nations.  Sorrow and sighing have to flee in the presence of the perfected love of the believer.  Jesus said in John 17 that He was providing for us to have the exact same degree of love within us that the Father has for Jesus.  So, that's our definition of perfected love rather than unScripturally rebuilding the wall between Jew and Gentile that Christ tore down.  It's stimulated and stirred by faith that comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.  And faith is obviously expressed through thanksgiving and obedience to the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.  1John 2:5 is really the key, though:

10% Word = 10% results
30% Word = 30% results
60% Word = 60% results
100% Word = 100+% results

Don't ever try to fit the Word into a busy schedule.  Build your schedule around the Word.

[mrvargas]

...so in essence we are saying...when we love..(what HE commanded)...we cannot fear...or have fear..and in fear there is no love...and therefore the one who fears cannot (yet?) be perfected?

Martin, I appreciate your response. You state the blessing of casting out fear and being in the Word and Love, yet in this life. I was asking about after one dies.

am I applying it wrong, in saying that after one dies and in spirit fears, that person cannot be perfected by Him(LOVE)?