"Saved" from what?

[willieH]

willieH: Hi PM... :hithere:

Sorry for not answering or acknowledging this response earlier...

Willie,

I have a great deal of love, compassion and empathy for others, more so, than your accusations imply. Furthermore, you have no idea what others, including myself, have, are, or will be going through in regards to our own lives in which you make an assumption on the basis of an "ADVISORY trip" – talk about arrogance and pridefulness?

I did not insinuate brother PM, that you do not have love or compassion or empathy for others...  And you are quite right, I do not know the things you might be going through neither did I allude to them in my answer to you...

I have been dealing with this for over a year now... and those who do not have CANCER, just don't have much to say...

For you to suggest (as it appeared to me), that I should be eating of the fruit of the spirit was offensive.  As you said, I do not KNOW much about you, but the very same is true in reverse, is it not?  So your words seemed to me, an arrogant assumption.   

The use of certain words convey an effect, given the thought and intent of the heart. Mine were not malicious in nature, nor were they meant to offend you, or for you to take personally.

I am glad to hear that PM...

I pray daily, brother, not only for you but for ALL others as well. And, if you desire to go into this further, then we will need to discuss the effects in relationship to the affect on our overall health; physically, mentally and Spiritually.

I have been walking this earth for 63+ years bro... and 33 of it with the Almighty.

As far as "affects" on my health... Part of what you do not know about me is that I believe in the COMPLETE DIVINE, Sovereignty of GOD...

In other words, ...I have CANCER, because HE declared I would, LONG before I appeared on this plane of existence... AND... the CANCER I presently battle (which is HIS CALL)... has a PURPOSE to which I do not OBJECT, even though I cannot see that purpose fully, and I admittedly find it quite cumbersome...

Some of what I DO see is that it exacts PRAYER from others... such as yourself... It also prompts my communications with Him to seek His MERCY (a wonderful thing which HE LOVES to employ - being "ALL MERCIFUL")...

Paul asked a question in Gal. 3:3; "Are you so foolish? Having begun in the spirit, are you now made perfect in flesh?"

And, in Gal. 6: 7-8, he says; "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows (physically, mentally or Spiritually), that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh reaps corruption, but he who sows to his spirit has life."

As stated previously: Habits and attitude make a difference.

Studies comparing diets and diseases, given the diversity of populations, have long shown that the risk of disease (i.e. cancer, etc.) is substantially lower in countries – where there is a higher variety and consumption of; vegetables, fruits and whole grains. But the mind and emotions affect the overall outcome of our health; for so as a man thinks.

You see brother... my belief is that ALL THINGS occur at the ORDAINATION of GOD, not because you or I, might eat "carrots & spinach", thinking we shall sidestep cancer.

Don't get me wrong... ALL THINGS are contributing to the ALREADY PAINTED, Picture of the HISTORY of MAN... which was LONG AGO painted -- Isaiah 46:10-11  :dontknow:

Your body is a temple; the dwelling place for this sojourn. It is not just a physical body, but the residence of His Spirit.

If a diet consists of catch-up, french fries, and hamburger meat we're in trouble, but let us not be egotistical!

peacemaker

You are preaching to the choir bro... I hardly devote my daily meal assignment to the care of McDonalds!  And yet, honesty compels me to say that McDonalds, though seldom patronized by me, DOES at times feed my hunger!  :laughing7:

If you should live to be 63, maybe you will attribute it to "eating healthy"... I attribute it to the WILL of GOD, concerning the duration of TIME I have been ORDAINED BY HIM to participate within it...

The Body is respected by me, and that CANCER is present in mine, does not indicate that I have "dissed" it!

I DID  admittedly spend a solid 30 years of my life, pretty much feeding the lusts of the flesh as often as possible...  And the CANCER which comes against me in THIS DAY, is likely the "reaping" what was "sown" in THOSE DAYS... (God knows)

I hope we can become friends here... but please don't preach to me about something you are UNFAMILIAR with...   If CANCER were so easily preventable as YOU seem to think and indicate... It would INDEED be sitting on the "back burner" with POLIO, but the FACTS are, ...that it IS NOT!  :dontknow:

Until you have had SURGERY and RADIATION THERAPY and the pain and discomfort associated with them... please keep your inexperienced "health advisements" to yourself... It would be deeply appreciated, ...thanks --  :cloud9:

You are welcome to continue praying for me, and I appreciate that effort with all my  :HeartThrob:

Peace...

...willieH  :cloud9:

[Cardinal]

FYI the following is a cut and paste from part of my testimony that has been online for several years.

Dec.15th 1995 is the time that stands out most predominately among the warnings and callings that God sent to me. While traveling along in morning rush hour traffic at approximately 65 mph and placing a cell phone call, I drifted off the freeway and onto the shoulder When I looked up there was a stalled semi with a large piece of earth moving equipment on its trailer fifty feet in front of me. With no place to go I hit him so hard in a large car that I reduced it to the size of a compact. The spectators could not believe that I was still alive let alone continue to talk to them while the paramedics immobilized me and prepared me for the trip to the hospital. All I could think was that they had no idea who was lying there in front of them and that this was just one more time that I had cheated death. When they wheeled me to the back of the ambulance I got the biggest shock of my life when I suddenly realized that I was about to die and that I had only seconds left to live.

My first thoughts were about how and when my family would find out that I had died and how would my dog get fed and taken care of. Then it got more serious as I realized that it did not matter whether I was wealthy or poor or whether I was driving a luxury car or a junker because I was about to leave this earth. I did not feel qualified to pray for my life at that time however I had a one-way conversation with God and I acknowledged to him that my life had been one of foolishness. I told Him that I no longer had the strength to live and if I was to do so it would take his direct intervention in one way or another because it was now all up to him. At that time I flat lined the monitoring equipment and the call went out to the highway patrol that they were losing me and at the same time and for the first time in my life I had peace and was grateful that dying wasn't all that bad. Keep in mind that I was totally immobilized and could only look straight up had I still been able to see. However I was soon looking at the paramedics eye to eye and at face level as they tried to restart my heart. Their attempts were futile and I was hoping that they would slow down before they ruined the best thing that had ever happened to me. The next thing that happened was that I was taken up into a large area where I could not see anyone else but could sense life around me. I was then "brought" up to a large table that had a very large book on it that was open but was placed in such a manner so that it could be read only by someone on the other side whom I could not see. I knew that this had to be the Book of Life that I had heard about as a youth and that if my name did not appear in it I would have to go to hell. This was very serious indeed but as I stood there the book closed. That did not seem to be a very good sign and I resigned myself to the fact that I would have to go to hell because I had had plenty of opportunities to change but now it was to late. I knew that it wouldn't do any good to cry and beg but that I should at least take it like a man because there would be plenty of time to cry where I was about to go.

Before any sort of trap door opened up to send me to hell I was taken to a second table just like the first one except this book was closed. I was somewhat confused as to what this second book was all about when suddenly it opened up and this scene was a repetition of the first scene. This entire second book made no sense at all as I had only heard of one book but it at least seemed to be a delay in what I already knew was about to happen. Then all of a sudden my name was found in the second book and I thought to myself "great" I get to go to heaven. Before that happened I felt something really good in my throat and thought that they had just given me oxygen temporarily forgetting that oxygen was one of the first things that they had given to me back at the scene of the accident some miles distant. I didn't understand all the uproar that was going on about me at the hospital. It seemed as if the entire hospital was involved around me and I was worried that somehow they had found out who I was. People kept on pointing to me and one of the nurses said she couldn't look at me and ran out of the room as if I was something evil and people kept on asking me if I remembered anything at all while I was unconscious. I told them they were mistaken and that I had been conscious the entire time and wanted to know when I could be released. An investigator from the highway patrol showed up and told me that she was there because they had been told that I had died and then had heard that not only was I alive but that I wanted to go home. She ended up getting rather upset with me and told me I didn't know how lucky I was and that in fourteen years she had never seen or heard of anything like what she was seeing now and that I should be more grateful.

To me it was just another close call but by the next day I started to tell people what I have just shared with you. I couldn't deal with what I had been through as it had affected me emotionally and when I would try and tell people about it and that there was life on the "other side" they would tell me to get some more rest and maybe I would be ok. This should have been a turning point in my life but it wasn't and I remember asking God why he had done this to me. Far better that he had kept me because now I had something else to hide and I decided to do whatever it took to try and put this entire incident behind me and before long it was "business as usual".

:cloud9: AMAZING...... :thumbsup:

[70sevens]

[No..... You are sowing lies that are contrary to the Word of God and that is why you disputed the law in our last tit for tat. If His Law was written on your heart you would speak differently than you do

Well,
"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick."

If you feel so healthy for whatsoever reasons, you must be in your heaven.
Enjoy that life!

God bless.

[martincisneros]

It is soooo wonderful to be complete in Christ :Sparkletooth:

[peacemaker]

Don't get me wrong... ALL THINGS are contributing to the ALREADY PAINTED, Picture of the HISTORY of MAN... which was LONG AGO painted -- Isaiah 46:10-11

God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should repent;
Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good? (Numbers 23:19)

The LORD of hosts has sworn saying, "Surely, just as I have intended, so it has happened, and just as I have planned, so it will stand, ..." (Isaiah 14:24)

O LORD, You are my God; I will exalt You, I will give thanks to Your name;
For You have worked wonders, Plans formed long ago, with perfect faithfulness. (Isaiah 25:1)

The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever. (Isaiah 40:8)

So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, and Without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. (Isaiah 55:11)

Many plans are in a man's heart, but the counsel [etsah ay-tsaw' – to advice; by implication, plan; also prudence:--advice, advisement, counsel(l-(or)), purpose] of the LORD will stand. (Proverbs 19:21)

"It is better to TRUST IN THE LORD, than to put confidence in MAN."

Is it not, the will of God that we eat healthy, and live in rightness?
Is not our physical-life, a hundred and twenty years at most?
Is a murdering-rapist of a 6 year old, ordained by God?
How about wars, instituted through the heart and mind of men?
Are mental, emotional or physical illnesses an act of God?

The number one reason for mental retardation world-wide was a lack of iodine, just peer with discernment into third world countries that were war torn. 

Until you have had SURGERY and RADIATION THERAPY and the pain and discomfort associated with them... please keep your inexperienced "health advisements" to yourself... It would be deeply appreciated ...

I hope we can become friends here... but please don't preach to me about something you are UNFAMILIAR with...   If CANCER were so easily preventable as YOU seem to think and indicate... It would INDEED be sitting on the "back burner" with POLIO, but the FACTS are, ...that it IS NOT!

Willie, a friend will mention or bring up those things outside of our comfort zone, but it is still our choice to listen, or not.  Many illnesses have a multi-billion dollar price tag attached to them (fact), and the rich get richer (fact) through the expense of others. Also, from first hand KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE (not foreign in nature)  – surgery may be beneficial. However, Chemotherapy and Radiation destroys the immune system, but each to their own.

I find that age is irrelevant, when it comes to understanding and that of wisdom. Although, not far behind you chronologically. And, I too, would never limit the Sovereignty of GOD in anything, as not having it's purpose.

You are preaching to the choir bro... I hardly devote my daily meal assignment to the care of McDonalds!  And yet, honesty compels me to say that McDonalds, though seldom patronized by me, DOES at times feed my hunger!   

My apologies, friend, but often times, I have found that the choir sings both; sacred and secular. Thanks, for having integrity!

Some of what I DO see is that it exacts PRAYER from others... such as yourself... It also prompts my communications with Him to seek His MERCY (a wonderful thing which HE LOVES to employ - being "ALL MERCIFUL")...

You are welcome to continue praying for me, and I appreciate that effort with all my

This will be done, even without a word being spoken.


peacemaker

P. S. – not sure how to separate quotes in order to respond individually, thus, the reason behind using red lettering.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi PM...  :cloud9:

Don't get me wrong... ALL THINGS are contributing to the ALREADY PAINTED, Picture of the HISTORY of MAN... which was LONG AGO painted -- Isaiah 46:10-11

God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should repent;
Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good? (Numbers 23:19)

The LORD of hosts has sworn saying, "Surely, just as I have intended, so it has happened, and just as I have planned, so it will stand, ..." (Isaiah 14:24)

O LORD, You are my God; I will exalt You, I will give thanks to Your name;
For You have worked wonders, Plans formed long ago, with perfect faithfulness. (Isaiah 25:1)

The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever. (Isaiah 40:8)

So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, and Without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. (Isaiah 55:11)

Many plans are in a man's heart, but the counsel [etsah ay-tsaw' – to advice; by implication, plan; also prudence:--advice, advisement, counsel(l-(or)), purpose] of the LORD will stand. (Proverbs 19:21)

"It is better to TRUST IN THE LORD, than to put confidence in MAN."

Nice verses and I agree with them all...  :declare:

Is it not, the will of God that we eat healthy, and live in rightness?

Concerning the "WILL" of God and RIGHTEOUSNESS... man cannot achieve it of himself... Only via the intimate involvement of the WORD and the SPIRIT, can any of us be named as associated with ANYTHING which could truly be termed as "righteous"...

As far as "eating healthy"... that is a matter of perspective and opinion... For many a human being has ON A DAILY BASIS -- eaten fried foods till they dripped from the lip,  :heat:  ...then drank til they stank  :Party: ...and yet, ...found longevity of life...  :omg:

Though I believe we must do our best to eat in a healthy manner, ...If it was an EXPECTED part of the WILL of GOD that we eat healthy... then HEALTHY food would be in abundance and AVAILABLE for ALL to eat... (it just so happens it IS NOT -- check those 3rd World countries) ...Otherwise He is insisting on something that is COMPLETELY unavailable to many, and they thereby lack the needed portions to satisfy the requirements of obedience...  :mnah:

I spent time in service in a Homeless shelter / food bank, and many which entered in the HOMELESS SHELTER or came to the FOOD BANK, hadn't had ANYTHING to eat, let alone HEALTHY foods...

No offense bro, but it seems at times, you observe within the spectrum of IDEALISMS, instead of reality...

Is not our physical-life, a hundred and twenty years at most?

I seriously doubt that even 1/10th of 1% of humanity lives to be 120 years... But it IS a fact that much of early humanity lived in excess of 900 years...  Longevity of life involves more elements than HEALTHY food...  :dontknow:  One of the things that provides it is the HONOR of your Mother and Father -- Ex 20:12  Honor thy Father and thy Mother that THY DAYS may be LONG upon the land that YHVH God ...GIVETH THEE...

Is a murdering-rapist of a 6 year old, ordained by God?

I say that this act (and all other acts of man) IS ordained by GOD to occur, simply because it TOOK PLACE in HIS CREATION, with HIS FOREKNOWLEDGE of it, before EITHER of the participants were even born...

The PURPOSE being a demonstration of what is UNACCEPTABLE behavior, as are ALL events of the practice of EVIL... which ALL take place IN His sight, and are allowed by Him to occur... with ALL necessary elements provided BY HIM, that they might via EXPERIENCE show DARKNESS for what it IS...

Let me put it this way:

(1) the 6yr old "raped" was placed in the ERA he/she was, even though it was FOREKNOWN by God that he/she would be raped...

(2) the rapist was also placed within the same ERA (time frame) that the 6yr old was, even though it was FOREKNOWN by GOD that the assailant would rape the 6yr old...

(3) During the entire course of the act, ...GOD actively sustained the lives of both the victim and assailant...

(4) GOD did NOTTHING to intervene, or to stop the act from occuring...

So how do you deduce that He had "nothing" to do with it taking place?

How about wars, instituted through the heart and mind of men?

GOD is ALL KNOWLEDGEABLE bro... which means that the KNOWLEDGE that MEN employ in the act of WAR, is gained from the "Library of knowledge" of the ALMIGHTY... GOD Himself states that MAN is become AS IS HE... having the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD... and (don't forget) ...EVIL... Gen 3:22

Are mental, emotional or physical illnesses an act of God?

GOD created the "human machine"... and IS the manufacturer... The design of man which includes STRENGTHS and also include WEAKNESSES, are the "proof in the pudding"...

That we become strained in these areas are a product of what the CREATOR had in mind before HISTORY began...  For ALL THINGS are WORKED together for GOOD... and are the WORK of GOD, and are WORKED BY HIM, ...whether you choose to observe it or NOT -- Eph 1:11

Otherwise, He is NOT ...ALL "mighty"...   :dontknow: ...for the ONLY POWER that exists is HIS, and ALL POWERS that be are ORDAINED BY HIM... and anything that occurs is at the hand of "one power" or another, all of which are ROOTED and emerge from HIM... Rom 13:1 :yes:

The number one reason for mental retardation world-wide was a lack of iodine, just peer with discernment into third world countries that were war torn.

I cannot say one way or another about this... and do not see its relevance.  If iodine is the number one reason for mental retardation... why did HE not put sufficient amounts in the product?  You cannot disassociate the Creator from the product, bro... if you wish to be honestly observing the product...

When your NEW "in warranty" car goes haywire, do YOU fix it?  Or do you make demands of the MANUFACTURER to CORRECT the problem?

Until you have had SURGERY and RADIATION THERAPY and the pain and discomfort associated with them... please keep your inexperienced "health advisements" to yourself... It would be deeply appreciated ...

I hope we can become friends here... but please don't preach to me about something you are UNFAMILIAR with...   If CANCER were so easily preventable as YOU seem to think and indicate... It would INDEED be sitting on the "back burner" with POLIO, but the FACTS are, ...that it IS NOT!

Willie, a friend will mention or bring up those things outside of our comfort zone, but it is still our choice to listen, or not.  Many illnesses have a multi-billion dollar price tag attached to them (fact), and the rich get richer (fact) through the expense of others. Also, from first hand KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE (not foreign in nature)  – surgery may be beneficial. However, Chemotherapy and Radiation destroys the immune system, but each to their own.

Again you talk out you _ss... Until you are faced with this dread disease... you have nothing to say.

CANCER is hardly "outside ones comfort zone"... and trivializing it in such a way is almost asking for it yourself... be careful what you say to others... You will reap, what you (carelessly) sow...

I find that age is irrelevant, when it comes to understanding and that of wisdom. Although, not far behind you chronologically. And, I too, would never limit the Sovereignty of GOD in anything, as not having it's purpose

Though wisdom can be found at times, in some that are within youth, mostly it is NOT... If you haven't noticed this "trend", you either are (1) YOUNG or (2) just plain, inobservant...

There is a reason that ELDERS lead out in almost EVERY area and aspect of life... WISDOM is found to be most prevalent in the OLDER, mostly because they have had opportunity to maker errors, and/or observe them, as well as experience LOVE within the LIFE experience and are thereby able to engage its true applications...

You are preaching to the choir bro... I hardly devote my daily meal assignment to the care of McDonalds!  And yet, honesty compels me to say that McDonalds, though seldom patronized by me, DOES at times feed my hunger! 

My apologies, friend, but often times, I have found that the choir sings both; sacred and secular. Thanks, for having integrity!

Hey, I agree!  :thumbsup:  I am a musician of over 40 years... I write, and play both SPIRITUAL and SECULAR music... there is value in BOTH... for BOTH of these DO and WILL, glorify GOD...  :bgdance:

Some of what I DO see is that it exacts PRAYER from others... such as yourself... It also prompts my communications with Him to seek His MERCY (a wonderful thing which HE LOVES to employ - being "ALL MERCIFUL")...

You are welcome to continue praying for me, and I appreciate that effort with all my

This will be done, even without a word being spoken.

peacemaker

Thanks!

P. S. – not sure how to separate quotes in order to respond individually, thus, the reason behind using red lettering.

All you need to do to "quote", is highlight the portion of text you wish to quote... and then click on the little yellow "quote" icon, just above the smilies, 2nd from the end...  :gthumbsup:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[peacemaker]

Willie,

Thank you for the responses, and for the kind words in an attempt to define my character. Also, for your points of view, as:

"Every man is right in his own eyes."

Your reality is not mine, but I have directly dealt with Cancer.  You must have missed the previous clues, as you seem to merely echo your insults.  So, who is it that talks out of their exit only, gluteus maximus?

Surely, you jest NOT knowing a thing about that of another?

peacemaker 

[lsmann2]

The last few days of reading my book (Hope Beyond Hell) and just thinking in general, and Ive been really confused on what "salvation" really is.

If everyone is already "saved" through Christ...why does Paul bother to mention things like this:

Romans 10:9-10
"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved"

Saved? Saved from what? Doesnt everyone still have to "face judgment" (2 Corinitians 5:10) anyway? What does confessing and all that "holy spirit", "turning to God" mumbo jumbo redeem us from if were already "redeemed" (from what I still dont really know)

Ninja,
We may do better to ask "What is God saving us FOR?
In that case, we need to look to the Apostle Paul for the answers. Paul writes in his last epistles that we as Christ's Body have a heavenly calling. High above the terrestrial, "earthy" promises made to Isreal. Our hope and expectation is to appear with Him in heavenly places.
We will be wittnesses of God's love to the principalities and powers that are above us right now. We will be "snatched away" OUT of the impending wrath of God that will take place here on earth.
The Bible makes a clear distinction between Heaven and Earth. All throughout scripture this distinction is plain. The apostle Paul introduces the thought of a heavenly calling IN the heavens. All other references to heaven in the Bible refer to things OUT OF heaven. These little distinctions are important, as they show us our promises today from those made to Isreal.

Lee

[Nathan]

It's "all" spiritual, man.  it's a spiritual rapture, it's a spiritual cleansing, a spiritual hell, a spiritual lake of fire . . .a disappearance of the church?  That teaching didn't take root until the middle 1800's.  Just do a quick search on the internet "the origin of the rapture" you'll find there are so many references that speak of this.  It's really surprising.

[lsmann2]

It's "all" spiritual, man.  it's a spiritual rapture, it's a spiritual cleansing, a spiritual hell, a spiritual lake of fire . . .a disappearance of the church?  That teaching didn't take root until the middle 1800's.  Just do a quick search on the internet "the origin of the rapture" you'll find there are so many references that speak of this.  It's really surprising.

Well then... that's certainly a relief! All Spiritual! Guess I can go sing "Kumbiah" and forget about the rest of the Bible reading I was going to do today! I'll put my Bible under my pillow tonight, and let the spirit float the revelation of God's Word into my spirit.
I'm thinkin' I'll hold a seance tomorrow so I know what pair of socks the spirit wants me to wear. :laughing7:

[Nathan]

It's "all" spiritual, man.  it's a spiritual rapture, it's a spiritual cleansing, a spiritual hell, a spiritual lake of fire . . .a disappearance of the church?  That teaching didn't take root until the middle 1800's.  Just do a quick search on the internet "the origin of the rapture" you'll find there are so many references that speak of this.  It's really surprising.

Well then... that's certainly a relief! All Spiritual! Guess I can go sing "Kumbiah" and forget about the rest of the Bible reading I was going to do today! I'll put my Bible under my pillow tonight, and let the spirit float the revelation of God's Word into my spirit.
I'm thinkin' I'll hold a seance tomorrow so I know what pair of socks the spirit wants me to wear. :laughing7:

Good luck with that.

[Livelystone]

It's "all" spiritual, man.  it's a spiritual rapture, it's a spiritual cleansing, a spiritual hell, a spiritual lake of fire . . .a disappearance of the church?  That teaching didn't take root until the middle 1800's.  Just do a quick search on the internet "the origin of the rapture" you'll find there are so many references that speak of this.  It's really surprising.

Well then... that's certainly a relief! All Spiritual! Guess I can go sing "Kumbiah" and forget about the rest of the Bible reading I was going to do today! I'll put my Bible under my pillow tonight, and let the spirit float the revelation of God's Word into my spirit.
I'm thinkin' I'll hold a seance tomorrow so I know what pair of socks the spirit wants me to wear. :laughing7:

Maybe you should just forget about wearing socks

If........ He will clean your feet for the paths of righteousness you really don't want wet socks and dry feet  :laughing7:

Blessings

Doug

[Cardinal]

It's "all" spiritual, man.  it's a spiritual rapture, it's a spiritual cleansing, a spiritual hell, a spiritual lake of fire . . .a disappearance of the church?  That teaching didn't take root until the middle 1800's.  Just do a quick search on the internet "the origin of the rapture" you'll find there are so many references that speak of this.  It's really surprising.

:cloud9: That's true, Nathan......and the interesting thing is, if you take what the girl's word from the Lord was that got turned into this natural man folly, SPIRITUALLY discerning what He was saying, you can see He probably said it.

Also, if you read the whole account, some man came into her town that heard about it, took the word NATURALLY, and ran with it, promoting a natural understanding (which I bet didn't come that way to her) of it, and promoting HIMSELF in the process. Sounds to me like a gainsaying spirit took over, and defiled the Word/breath of the Lord. Blessings...

[lookingup]

 Sounds to me like a gainsaying spirit took over, and defiled the Word/breath of the Lord. Blessings...
[/quote]

that gainsaying spirit runs rampant in churchianity: ya know: roberts, hinn, olstein,dollar,white, etc, etc,etc the list seems never ending   

[reFORMer]

Sounds to me like a gainsaying spirit took over, and defiled the Word/breath of the Lord. Blessings...

that gainsaying spirit runs rampant in churchianity: ya know: roberts, hinn, olstein,dollar,white, etc, etc,etc the list seems never ending   
[/quote]
I'm not saying we can't discuss problems concerning various prominent teachers.  By putting out their word in writing or to millions via the media we even have a responsiblity to examine what they say.  But I've noticed one thing accompanying many people's fall. Jesus says that unless everyone of us does not forgive from the heart anything we have against anyone, neither will our Father in heaven forgive us.  It is important for our own spiritual progress to be warned by David's attitude toward Saul. He said he would not lift his hand against God's annointed! This was even though Saul and some of his army were chasing down David to kill him without a cause. Oral Roberts, Hinn, Dollar, certainly none of them are chasing you down for anything. When you answer to God in judgement He won't ask you why Billy Graham, Bennie Hinn, or David Wilkerson did or said such and such. You will stand there answering for yourself. You really ought to seek the face of God.

[Nathan]

Agreed bro, sometimes we over-look the anointed position in order to slay the one in it.  David, to me, was not honoring Saul by not rebuking him for his blindness . . .but he was honoring the anointed position that Saul was in.  The love is in us to do these things you suggest, all we need to do is allow that love to manifest through us. 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I guess I should have explained that observation of mine better. Bear with me.

Eve = original fall to gainsaying spirit. Eve desired the fruit because she thought it would make HER wise, ie. exalting the soulish flesh instead of letting the Father exalt the SON IN the soulish flesh in due season.

This choice "lowered" her, as he who seeks to save his life (ie. by exalting the flesh) loses it, but he who seeks to lose his life (ie. by exalting the Seed), saves it. We must decrease, so that He can increase.

This "lowering" is why God spoke then (as a reversal of her condition) that her SEED would crush the serpent's head. Our "Eve" has been "impregnated" with the Son, that Son is going to be raised up/exalted to crush the head of the serpent (in us). He did not leave us here without hope, ie. Christ in you, the hope of glory. Blessings....

[lookingup]

i want to deeply apologize for my last post. i have done it again, i shot off my mouth without knowing the definition of a word. i had never heard of the word "gainsayer" before and i instantly thought of it having to do with money. my carnality over flowed when i made tried to make a tongue in cheek comment. i should have also just refered in general, not specific individuals .
             
          When i read the response to my post i wondered why i got that response, it took me a while to figure that something was awry, i looked up the definition of the word and agree that i got what was coming(i have been taught if you do something in ignorance there is still reckoning).

When i think of the pollution that is in the pulpit today my carnality will overwhelm me sometimes, so when the thoughts  come to mind it strikes a cord in me  i don't like.

When i hear men of God get on a live talk show and can't get the words out of his mouth Jesus is the only way to the Father

and another one says that Jesus was not the Messiah,and yet another says we are not to ever pray for Gods' will to be done, my frustration and passion overwhelms me. When time has gone by and i "chill" my reasoning comes back and i realize,....but by the grace of God........i remember that i have plenty of my own faults to overcome

again my apologies    :mblush: :mblush: :mblush: :mblush:

[Doc]

i want to deeply apologize for my last post. i have done it again, i shot off my mouth without knowing the definition of a word. i had never heard of the word "gainsayer" before and i instantly thought of it having to do with money. my carnality over flowed when i made tried to make a tongue in cheek comment. i should have also just refered in general, not specific individuals .
             
          When i read the response to my post i wondered why i got that response, it took me a while to figure that something was awry, i looked up the definition of the word and agree that i got what was coming(i have been taught if you do something in ignorance there is still reckoning).

When i think of the pollution that is in the pulpit today my carnality will overwhelm me sometimes, so when the thoughts  come to mind it strikes a cord in me  i don't like.

When i hear men of God get on a live talk show and can't get the words out of his mouth Jesus is the only way to the Father

and another one says that Jesus was not the Messiah,and yet another says we are not to ever pray for Gods' will to be done, my frustration and passion overwhelms me. When time has gone by and i "chill" my reasoning comes back and i realize,....but by the grace of God........i remember that i have plenty of my own faults to overcome

again my apologies    :mblush: :mblush: :mblush: :mblush:

I just wanted to say two quick things here, even though I wasn't involved in the exchange in question. The first is, I really appreciate your humble spirit in this post.

Secondly, You're absolutely right about even things done in ignorance  requiring reckoning. I believe the scripture addresses this directly with the few stripes vs. many stripes passage. It's clear that what's done in ignorance earns us fewer stripes, thankfully.

[Livelystone]

This "lowering" is why God spoke then (as a reversal of her condition) that her SEED would crush the serpent's head. Our "Eve" has been "impregnated" with the Son, that Son is going to be raised up/exalted to crush the head of the serpent (in us).

Sorry but that is not so

Eve's seed was/is in compliance with Satan and "her seed" (the seed only comes from  a male) was from the serpent and from  Adam whose seed after he sinned was infected with the law of sin that IS NOT THE LAW OF MOSES BUT INSTEAD IS WHAT PAUL CALLED TO BE THE MESSENGER OF SATAN .......... An evil principality that has been passed down to all of mankind ever since the fall.......... it is a noun thaty creates a verb in its own image and that verb is spelled SIN !!!

The woman with the seed that will bruise Satan's head is the woman that was when Adam was made male and female BEFORE EVE EVER CAME TO BE  !!!!!!!!!

This "woman" is the one reserved undefiled and in heaven AND IS OUR INHERITANCE  (1Pet 1:4) that is the mind/soul of God and OF Jesus Christ who had the mind of God. This is the tabernacle for the Holy Spirit that we see being given to man in Revelations 21: 1-3 which is the restoration of all that was lost when Adam "became one with Eve after she sinned instead of being one with the mind of God that He was first created with when he was called to be a "living soul" that was before he became a "dead to God soul" as Paul put it and is the reason why we are born into the valley of death.

This knowledge is far different then Christians have been taught up until now but it is both true and required knowledge for those who desire to become Priests to God.

Malachi 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

[Nathan]

 :flamebreath: :umnick:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I THINK we're talking about the same thing, LS, but I'm going have to re-read your post several times, to see if I can glean what you're saying, more clearly. Blessings...

[lsmann2]

I just believe the Corinthians passage when Paul said God's not counting our trespasses against us. Maybe Paul was just a crackpot liar?

Lee

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Did you know that we've saved, spirit, soul and body, in that order, and that it lines up with the Tabernacle that He said in Heb. 10 was our pattern of the heavenlies, or spiritual things? There's deeper depths and higher heights in there, than just appears on the shiny surface of the water........dive on in........Blessings...