http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=bc1ece7f50dea1e94a70650ea6578c98&board=2.0 (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=bc1ece7f50dea1e94a70650ea6578c98&board=2.0)
We are putting up some of your videos on YouTube.com and stumbled into a site that caught my attention. After the video, I went to their site and saw they had a discussion board. Perhaps some of you could visit the boards and make comments.
Here's the video. It is well done. I'm sure it will rock a few people's faith:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=z9pDURu8u74 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=z9pDURu8u74)
This seems to be the hit of the week with Atheists. So let me pose the questions so we can formulate our answers, this guy says we abandon all rationality so it will be interesting to see how this pans out.
Q1
Why won't God heal amputees?
Sub topics
We believe in answered prayer, so why is a prayer for a raise etc. not have the same effect as a prayer of a starving person.
Q2
Why are there so many starving people in this world?
Q3
Why does God demand the deaths of so many innocent people in the Bible?
Alludes to disobedient teenagers, non-virgins, homosexuals, people working on the Sabbath day
Q4
Why does the bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
Claims of no worldwide flood, Jonah and the fish, man was not created from the dust.
Q5
Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the bible?
Q6
Why do bad things happen to good people?
Q7
Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the bible leave behind any evidence?
Q8
How do you explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
Q9
Why would Jesus want you to eat His body and drink His blood?
Q10
Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians.
If Im not mistaken Gary was an agnostic at one time. I recall reading his testimony once and will go read it again. I would love to see him interact on the forum Im currently on.
Im sure he is very busy though
thanks for those Seeker, these are things that are such sticklers for athiests
I would love to read what you all come up with.
kept
It is obvious this guy comes out from a ET background or fundamentalist background. He appeals to logic and rationality which I believe we have here. For us God is real but all have discovered this through the spiritual sense and not carnally which is the problem with many of our fundamentalist friends who also have not had their spiritual eyes opened yet.
Q1
Why won't God heal amputees?
I don't know, however we have the last miracle of Jesus when Jesus healed the chopped off ear although only recorded as such in Luke. Is He able to? I believe He can.
One good answer was that we are not endowed with the ability to regenerate limbs. We have inner healing abilities and that is generally unseen. So many medical reports by doctors of miraculous healings in other areas and we have recent and many testimonies of the dead being raised to life. A guy 3 days dead raised to life Reinhard Bonke in Nigeria. Maybe someone will like to get the evidence for that.
As for limbs, we have prosthetics that can be fitted for a semi-normal life. I am not sure if we have evidence for paraplegics being healed.
Q2
Why are there so many starving people in this world?
Jesus was pretty clear in the commission given that it is up to us to feed and take care of the poor, widows and orphans. God moves when we do, many testimonies of multiplication of limited resources aka food. This is the responsibility of the have's to the have not's and is not only a Christian thing.
Q6
Why do bad things happen to good people?
Job; how much worse can you get?
Q7
Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the bible leave behind any evidence?
I do not understand the question, what sort of evidence is he looking for?
Q8
How do you explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
This happens mostly in the Spiritual but there are testimonies of physical.
Q9
Why would Jesus want you to eat His body and drink His blood?
This leads me to believe that he was RC wrt the Eucharist. Again symbolic and cannot be understood carnally.
I do not have answers to the rest, I am married once so I cannot comment on 10.
Common folks, this is not difficult. Once we have it, I can post a link to the best answers.
Blessings
Each of these questions use an internal informal fallacy in order for the reader to react in accordance to the questioner instead of reflecting on the reality.
Q1
"Why won't God heal amputees?
Who says He doesn't? I do not know any amputees, and there are many miracles that do not recieve attention.
Such question already pre-supposes that God won't. It is a fallacy of presupposition. Why won't you stop beating your wife? It presupposes you beat your wife.
Conclusion: Not worth answering.
Q2
Why are there so many starving people in this world?
Despite being omnipotent, God has given authority of earth to mankind to take care of it. He has allowed free-will within the habitation and boundary He has set up for us.
In fact, there is enough food in the US alone, that would feed the entire world, 3 square meals a day without waste. The wickedness and godlessness of mankind, is why there are many starving people in this world. Food is not the problem, and those who are starving are starving because the selfishness of their neighbors.
Q3
Why does God demand the deaths of so many innocent people in the Bible?
This presupposes that there is innocent deaths commanded by God in the Bible. I have studied Scripture and have seen the 'proof' texts of athiests and agnostics who point out God kills children, and women, and so forth. This is a debate within itself. Any rational and intelligent person will understand even 100 years ago, the culture of society was far different than it is today. Even 50 years ago, a fist to fist fight would not get a man jail time for abuse, but today you slap a person across the face you can be in jail for 3 years!
Q4
Why does the bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
Psycology also contains so anti-scientific nonsense, yet it is recognized field of science. Does Scripture say God made the world in seven days? Or does it say it took Seven Olams? An Olam representing a age or period of time with a distinct beginning and end. Science cannot even prove how earth was made, because science needs to be observable, therefore everything concerning creation whether scientific or theological, is theory.
Q5
Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the bible?
This question again presupposes God is in favor of slavery. Culture was different. Even today, a man who makes $4 an hour, even though he is being paid for his work, is literally a slave to it. Slavery is perception, not reality. There is good and bad examples in history, the anti-slavery view is in view of the unethical European slave trade.
Q6
Why do bad things happen to good people?
Ecclesiastes says it does. King Solomon wrote this far before this man came to this question. The rain falls on the good and evil a like, there is nothing new unders the sun. The circumstances of life may seem evil, but the good man is at peace in his heart.
Q7
Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the bible leave behind any evidence?
Irrelevant. There are many things that don't have physical evidence that happened in the past, which even scientists and historians know happened. The reports of events are considered evidence of the events. So guess what, the gospels are sufficient evidence that Jesus performed miracles.
Q8
How do you explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
He is making an emotional appeal, another fallacy. He is telling us to be rational and intelligent people, but now he is working on your fear of abandonment. How do I explain the fact Jesus never appeared to me? I can't, because He came to me when I was 4 years old, in physical form. I touched His hands and He touched my face and saved me from sexual abuse. At age 18, He physically sat next to my bed talking to me about the cult which brought a crisis of faith, only to show comfort me that He is the Truth, and that He would never leave me nor forsake me for anything. Etc.
Q9
Why would Jesus want you to eat His body and drink His blood?
He is again appealing to emotion. How disgusting does it sound to eat His body and drink His blood. Of course, he is specifically addressing a tradition which is not actually in Scripture which says the crackers and wine actually become His body and His blood. The reality is that it is a metaphor, a symbolic gesture of something deeper on an emotional, intellectual, spiritual, philosophical side. It was never a literal interpretation. (This guy says he is rational).
Q10
Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians.
Presupposing that all who claim to be Christian, are in fact Christ followers, then we must accept the reason they get divorced at the same rate is because we all make mistakes.
The author actually brought this question up in relation to 'let no man put assunder', and yet they are. He forgets God allowed divorce in Scripture, He just detestes it.
This comes back to our freedom of will, to make the right and good choices and many do not and suffer the consequences of their actions.
However, this presupposes that all who claim to be Christian ,are in fact Christ followers. How many true Christians get divorced? I don't know, can't measure the heart to know.
This man put together a series of arguements which were meant to lead to one conclusion. The way he phrases the questions and the order they appear are meant to create a sense of distrust in God and a sense of faithlessness. He is preparing for this conclusion that all men who believe in God, are delusional. He suggests only abnormal people believe in a God. A recent survey done records that as much as 86% of the world believes in a 'greater power' or 'Spirit' or 'God' or 'gods'. Of the 14% half are not sure, that leaves 7% of the world which absolutely believes in no god, force or spirit. This man believes that 93% of the mankind is delusional! Has anyone done a study on the word, "Normal".
Normal :
1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
2. serving to establish a standard.
3.
a. approximately average in any psychological trait, as intelligence, personality, or emotional adjustment.
b. free from any mental disorder; sane.
By the definition of Normal, that 7% are actually the delusional ones, and that means they are the ones insane. ;)
Craig
I loved some of your answers especially the one on eating his body and drinking his blood and the statistics
oh came back to say to seeker, the food thing, yep I totally agree, Craig did too lol
where is that cheerleader
:cheerleader:
kept
Quote from: Kept on October 31, 2007, 02:24:58 AM
where is that cheerleader
:cheerleader:
kept
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Just spoted the cheerleader down at the grocery market buying the fixings for a good meal for hungry company coming, many don't believe the truth that here in supposedly the wealthist Nation in the world there are many dealing with homelessnes and hunger, if a man so much as feeds and shows compassion for one hungry and thirsting soul he has done it for me said our Lord Jesus Christ, compassion may come by the spirit but the joy is in comforting those in literal needs as well as spiritual, no matter what Nation they are from.
As for amputees, our flesh and blood bodies do not naturaly grow new limbs once they are gone, no more than we can replace our teeth with a 3rd or 4th set of natural teeth.
At least today they have artificial limbs that are far better than wooden legs or being confined to a wheelchair for the remaining duration of life. Some folks are born with worse deformities from birth than amputees experience, however most of these have time to adapt during their childhood that amputees don't have, many amputees overcome their loss and many do not. It appears that the ones who overcome the loss have been healed in the context of healing as we are speaking about in this
thread.
Peace,
Fire Walker
Q1 Why won't God heal amputees?
Answer:
Matthew 15: 29-31
29 And Jesus departed from thence [the coasts of Tyre and Sidon], and came nigh unto the sea of Galilee; and went up into a mountain, and sat down there.
30 And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them:
31 Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.
While the reports of restorations of lost limbs and the like among Christians seem to be more common from outside the United States, certainly among those With Heidi Baker in Africa for one source, it happens here too.
A Pastor Reesie (sp?) at Grace Church in Ft Lauderdale, FL was witnessing to a young man a few years ago. The fellow said that if what he was saying about God being good, all powerful and present was true, then He should be able to heal his hand with all the fingers cut off. Brother Reesie agreed. He says God told him to shout at the fingers. So he did; for something like over 5 hours til he was completely hoarse. The fingers all grew back! The fellowship I was with for a few years met in the Grace Church building for around a year because the people had outgrown it and were meeting elsewhere. I got to meet both the pastor and the guy that had been healed. I think he drove a Firebird. They had medical papers concerning the matter.
---James
Good answers to the questions, most of the questions really didn't merit answering. I see nobody said anything about "man wasn't created from the dust of the earth". Factually speaking, about 10 years back, it was reported that the human body, if assayed chemically, was composed of common elements that were worth about 98 cents. Basically, dust of the earth. I can't remember the name of the author, but a book, The Science of God, addresses the 7 day thing and a number of other "scientific" problems. I enjoyed it because I really enjoyed physics, and wondered if the laws of relativity could be applied and what do ya know, he did just that. 7 days it could have been.
Quote from: Craig on October 30, 2007, 09:56:29 PM
Each of these questions use an internal informal fallacy in order for the reader to react in accordance to the questioner instead of reflecting on the reality.
Q1
"Why won't God heal amputees?
Who says He doesn't? I do not know any amputees, and there are many miracles that do not recieve attention.
Such question already pre-supposes that God won't. It is a fallacy of presupposition. Why won't you stop beating your wife? It presupposes you beat your wife.
Conclusion: Not worth answering.
Q2
Why are there so many starving people in this world?
Despite being omnipotent, God has given authority of earth to mankind to take care of it. He has allowed free-will within the habitation and boundary He has set up for us.
In fact, there is enough food in the US alone, that would feed the entire world, 3 square meals a day without waste. The wickedness and godlessness of mankind, is why there are many starving people in this world. Food is not the problem, and those who are starving are starving because the selfishness of their neighbors.
Q3
Why does God demand the deaths of so many innocent people in the Bible?
This presupposes that there is innocent deaths commanded by God in the Bible. I have studied Scripture and have seen the 'proof' texts of athiests and agnostics who point out God kills children, and women, and so forth. This is a debate within itself. Any rational and intelligent person will understand even 100 years ago, the culture of society was far different than it is today. Even 50 years ago, a fist to fist fight would not get a man jail time for abuse, but today you slap a person across the face you can be in jail for 3 years!
Q4
Why does the bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
Physcology also contains so anti-scientific nonsense, yet it is recognized field of science. Does Scripture say God made the world in seven days? Or does it say it took Seven Olams? An Olam representing a age or period of time with a distinct beginning and end. Science cannot even prove how earth was made, because science needs to be observable, therefore everything concerning creation whether scientific or theological, is theory.
Q5
Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the bible?
This question again presupposes God is in favor of slavery. Culture was different. Even today, a man who makes $4 an hour, even though he is being paid for his work, is literally a slave to it. Slavery is perception, not reality. There is good and bad examples in history, the anti-slavery view is in view of the unethical European slave trade.
Q6
Why do bad things happen to good people?
Ecclesiastes says it does. King Solomon wrote this far before this man came to this question. The rain falls on the good and evil a like, there is nothing new unders the sun. The circumstances of life may seem evil, but the good man is at peace in his heart.
Q7
Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the bible leave behind any evidence?
Irrelevant. There are many things that don't have physical evidence that happened in the past, which even scientists and historians know happened. The reports of events are considered evidence of the events. So guess what, the gospels are sufficient evidence that Jesus performed miracles.
Q8
How do you explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
He is making an emotional appeal, another fallacy. He is telling us to be rational and intelligent people, but now he is working on your fear of abandonment. How do I explain the fact Jesus never appeared to me? I can't, because He came to me when I was 4 years old, in physical form. I touched His hands and He touched my face and saved me from sexual abuse. At age 18, He physically sat next to my bed talking to me about the cult which brought a crisis of faith, only to show comfort me that He is the Truth, and that He would never leave me nor forsake me for anything. Etc.
Q9
Why would Jesus want you to eat His body and drink His blood?
He is again appealing to emotion. How disgusting does it sound to eat His body and drink His blood. Of course, he is specifically addressing a tradition which is not actually in Scripture which says the crackers and wine actually become His body and His blood. The reality is that it is a metaphor, a symbolic gesture of something deeper on an emotional, intellectual, spiritual, philosophical side. It was never a literal interpretation. (This guy says he is rational).
Q10
Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians.
Presupposing that all who claim to be Christian, are in fact Christ followers, then we must accept the reason they get divorced at the same rate is because we all make mistakes.
The author actually brought this question up in relation to 'let no man put assunder', and yet they are. He forgets God allowed divorce in Scripture, He just detestes it.
This comes back to our freedom of will, to make the right and good choices and many do not and suffer the consequences of their actions.
However, this presupposes that all who claim to be Christian ,are in fact Christ followers. How many true Christians get divorced? I don't know, can't measure the heart to know.
This man put together a series of arguements which were meant to lead to one conclusion. The way he phrases the questions and the order they appear are meant to create a sense of distrust in God and a sense of faithlessness. He is preparing for this conclusion that all men who believe in God, are delusional. He suggests only abnormal people believe in a God. A recent survey done records that as much as 86% of the world believes in a 'greater power' or 'Spirit' or 'God' or 'gods'. Of the 14% half are not sure, that leaves 7% of the world which absolutely believes in no god, force or spirit. This man believes that 93% of the mankind is delusional! Has anyone done a study on the word, "Normal".
Normal :
1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
2. serving to establish a standard.
3.
a. approximately average in any psychological trait, as intelligence, personality, or emotional adjustment.
b. free from any mental disorder; sane.
By the definition of Normal, that 7% are actually the delusional ones, and that means they are the ones insane. ;)
Great Stuff! :thumbsup:
It was Freud who dubbed God a universal obsessional neurosis. Of course, he himself was deeply conflicted in this matter, raised Jewish, surrounded by Catholics, victimized by anti-semitism. Through his life it has been found that he struggled to believe, but apparently his own ego, or is it super ego, refused to allow him the release to find Him.
Why doesn't God heal amputees?
My faith is at a place rest right now where I don't require miracles, which is good since to be quite honest, I haven't seen any in the strictest sense of the word. Granted, I have experienced some VERY profound coincidences, VERY, VERY profound, but not miracles that could only be explained as supernatural intervention.
Example: a couple of months ago, I was hanging out in a bar. It was a Monday or Tuesday. There's only one other person at the bar and the bartender behind it. We started talking about psychopaths for some reasons-- Dahmer, Bundy, etc., and out of the clear blue, I say, "You know, in the two years that I've been living here, there's only been one person I've met who strikes me as being a psychopath." I couldn't think of his name, but I started describing him.
The bartender suddenly looked nervous, sick, and worried. Her brother had arranged for this particular man (area of about 30,000 people) to take her children to school the next morning. The NEXT morning. He had never taken them to school before. He was doing it as a favor. She called the man who then argued with her, saying, "But I thought they wanted to ride with me."
Beyond any doubt, I had brought up the SAME guy. We narrowed it to beyond any doubt. This individual truly is dangerous, and I could explain, but I'll spare the details for now.
The odds of what happened are just too staggering for it to be a mere coincidence. BUT, how do I answer for the children who were not rescued at the last minute? The millions raped, killed, starved, etc.
My only answer is that good points us to God, but bad is for the perfecting of our sonship to God, which means growing into the being of God-- returning to where we were with God in the beginning. Pain and suffering are our bad wine first, but the good wine is coming. The rich man had to do a stint in purgatory because he took the "good wine" first in the richness of this temporal life.
I won't say that miracles never happen because that would be quite narrow, but I know of no case where an amputee instantly grew a replacement.
I too came across the youtube video today. Don't find their arguments very strong. Was wondering if any of you have been to their forum yet to make some valid arguments and statements? If not I am looking for some people who are prepared to join me. It upsets me so much when people try and disprove God. I wonder how much ET has to do with it. People will deny anything if it causes them enough fear. Please people, go to youtube and watch this video and you will see what I mean. Please join me.
Blessings
Dee
I've been roaming the Why Won't God Heal Amputees? site this morning and have come to the conclusion that these guys are just looking for anything to poke fun at. Their view is that only that which can be proven scientifically is logical and provable.
I would not reccomend going there and arguing with them. They will not be swayed and will probably try their best just to aggrivate you. There will be no productive outcomes. If you just want to argue with someone, then go for it. I'm not going to cast my pearls before swine.
Well, there are men of science who would rather postulate infinite bubble universes (which by definition they know they can never prove) than consider the idea of a Supreme Being (God). Then these same people will tell you just how miraculous it is that we exist, and how miraculous it is that earth, in the middle of a "shooting range" of meteors and such, is not impacted by huge space debris more often. But of course, these are scientific miracles, no God involved. Talk about hypocrisy.
Quote from: rhellis on August 09, 2008, 09:13:37 AM
Why doesn't God heal amputees?
My faith is at a place rest right now where I don't require miracles, which is good since to be quite honest, I haven't seen any in the strictest sense of the word. Granted, I have experienced some VERY profound coincidences, VERY, VERY profound, but not miracles that could only be explained as supernatural intervention.
Example: a couple of months ago, I was hanging out in a bar. It was a Monday or Tuesday. There's only one other person at the bar and the bartender behind it. We started talking about psychopaths for some reasons-- Dahmer, Bundy, etc., and out of the clear blue, I say, "You know, in the two years that I've been living here, there's only been one person I've met who strikes me as being a psychopath." I couldn't think of his name, but I started describing him.
The bartender suddenly looked nervous, sick, and worried. Her brother had arranged for this particular man (area of about 30,000 people) to take her children to school the next morning. The NEXT morning. He had never taken them to school before. He was doing it as a favor. She called the man who then argued with her, saying, "But I thought they wanted to ride with me."
Beyond any doubt, I had brought up the SAME guy. We narrowed it to beyond any doubt. This individual truly is dangerous, and I could explain, but I'll spare the details for now.
The odds of what happened are just too staggering for it to be a mere coincidence. BUT, how do I answer for the children who were not rescued at the last minute? The millions raped, killed, starved, etc.
My only answer is that good points us to God, but bad is for the perfecting of our sonship to God, which means growing into the being of God-- returning to where we were with God in the beginning. Pain and suffering are our bad wine first, but the good wine is coming. The rich man had to do a stint in purgatory because he took the "good wine" first in the richness of this temporal life.
I won't say that miracles never happen because that would be quite narrow, but I know of no case where an amputee instantly grew a replacement.
I hadn't read this post before. But I think that we'd see a lot more divine appointments such as this once the church-goers realize that the gifts given to us that 1 Corinthians 12 speaks of . .are not intended to mainfest solely in church services. We're equipped to go out into the highways and byways . .the bar is definitely a by way . . . come to think of it, for many, it's also their highway. How many more tragedies could be averted if we the church could wipe the smirks off our faces and stop condemning the bar-hoppers and start reaching out to them instead?
Why won't God heal amputees? From what I understand, God's Son gave us the Holy Spirit to heal, and with faith, we can. It's a matter of having enough faith not only to believe God can heal through the Holy Spirit with us as the vessel, but to KNOW that God can through the Holy Spirit.
Just my :2c:.
QuoteBut I think that we'd see a lot more divine appointments such as this once the church-goers realize that the gifts given to us that 1 Corinthians 12 speaks of . .are not intended to mainfest solely in church services. We're equipped to go out into the highways and byways . .the bar is definitely a by way . . . come to think of it, for many, it's also their highway. How many more tragedies could be averted if we the church could wipe the smirks off our faces and stop condemning the bar-hoppers and start reaching out to them instead?
Amen! Where would you find Jesus in our time if He were here as a mortal? Eating and drinking with the tax collectors and thieves? Absolutely. We all have darkness in our lives, and judging ours to be less potent than a person who attends bars and socializes is wrong. Most Christians just go along with the standard because it is what is accepted by the majority. ...water to wine....a little wine for the stomach's sake...etc.
All things are lawful, but not all are expedient. What about the overweight Christian that sits at home eating 1000's of calories and killing himself with food. Is that not falling short of the glory of God? Try that subject out in the pulpit. Be ready to have cheeseburgers thrown at you. Is caffeine not a drug? Actually it is almost as potent and addicting as cocaine. There is a double standard in the body of Christ. If you want to condemn others for smoking and drinking make sure you are not gorging yourself at Ryan's every Sunday after Church and sucking down Pepsi like it's going out of style.
Sorry....got a little out of control there.
Very good points all.......
the main reason so many have turned away from God
for the organized church
is the religious zealots in their hypocricy
you are either going to be just like them
or run from it with every ounce of breath in you ... :mblush:
Unfortunately, that is why I left and why I have such strong feelings about this. I also feel ashamed that I took the offense (You can only be offended if you take the offense upon yourself) rather than letting it go. My only excuse is that I was a teenager at the time, and the people who were supposed to be my spiritual guides kicked me out of school for an accident. I didn't graduate because of it. There is still a lot of bitterness there. Guess I need to work on forgivness eh?
Quote from: alihaymeg on December 21, 2008, 11:57:59 PM
Unfortunately, that is why I left and why I have such strong feelings about this. I also feel ashamed that I took the offense (You can only be offended if you take the offense upon yourself) rather than letting it go. My only excuse is that I was a teenager at the time, and the people who were supposed to be my spiritual guides kicked me out of school for an accident. I didn't graduate because of it. There is still a lot of bitterness there. Guess I need to work on forgivness eh?
Hi alihaymeg ,
we do get offended , I am guilty as sin . :mblush:
and have not been back to organized church in years
I loved the people so much and see them in places from time to time
thats when i miss them the most
it just seems to me that if one man or group of men can rule over a whole group of people they should be able to have them abilities to be more concerned for the groups welfare , individually and as a grop
to me if you do not measure up you are out :mshock:
and I dont see that as right in the sight of God at all !!!
on the contrary , even Jesus went after the one lost sheep and left the 99 in safe keeping amongst themselves , till He returned again :sigh:
Absolutely!
I try no to fault them too much for being human. It is hard to give to each person what they need when you are preocupied with defending your position within the denomination. In a choice between protecting each other and protecting our power, protecting power usually wins. That's why I prefer to fellowship here with all of my beloved brothers and sisters where we are all equals.
God bless you.
Quote from: alihaymeg on December 22, 2008, 01:03:22 AM
Absolutely!
I try no to fault them too much for being human. It is hard to give to each person what they need when you are preocupied with defending your position within the denomination. In a choice between protecting each other and protecting our power, protecting power usually wins. That's why I prefer to fellowship here with all of my beloved brothers and sisters where we are all equals.
God bless you.
I feel the same Bro , and am so sorry you were mistreated at such and young age , by those whom that power was entrusted to
they have failed miserably
but as them so have I also in what the Lord gave me to '' increase'' ..
the talents parable comes to my mind right now
God bless you too so very much bro :HeartThrob:
Your compasionate words bring tears to my eyes.
This is something that the Holy Spirit is still dealing with in me.
He has turned it all around to work for my good.
Now I just need to let it go.
Thank you Lord for your grace and mercy toward me!
AMEN ! God love ya :HeartThrob:
In the commercial meat generating facilities there are rows upon rows of cages, sometimes several floors of cages. The chicken in the cage with about a dozen others had the pointy tip of it's beak clipped by a hot wire when it was about 3 days old so it couldn't peck the other chickens. It gets the space of only about 1 page of typewriter paper to inhabit for it's entire life. In some states they've managed to pass laws to stop such intensive production techniques in order for the birds to have a more "natural" lifestyle. California has something like that to go into effect in maybe a decade to make it easier for farmers to adjust. It will drive up the prices of meat considerably. The process of adapting to the change may mean much more imported chicken. While the bird I mentioned has stresses unique to it's caged life, because it has never known anything else it can be reasonably proposed that it can't miss what it never had. Do you realize the way some children have been treated they are in a lifestyle if wickedness, whether violence or deviant sexuality,or whatever. They perpetuate on their own children what was done to them. They don't know there is another life outside their cages, a life that exists as potential within their own life. This is very important for our spiritual understanding.
Jesus on the cross said of those responsible for putting Him there, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." Many Christians are fearful of falling into some kind of gnostic heresy if they allow themselves to believe that people really don't understand what they're doing. To know that the most wicked of people will one day understand and cast themselves at Jesus feet, imploring Him to have mercy, works a softening in our own hearts towards them now, while they're in their ignorance. Surely the inworking of the love of God toward the ungodly for whom Christ died bears witness to the truth of God's ultimate salvation of all. We all, born in Adam, suffer being amputated from God. My entire self is an amputation. The restoration of the rest of our lost being, our being enabled to partake of the Divine nature from which we were cut off is the story of the gospel applied to our life. "For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bone." (Ep 5:30) We are the flesh of God in the earth.
QuoteTo know that the most wicked of people will one day understand and cast themselves at Jesus feet, imploring Him to have mercy, works a softening in our own hearts towards them now, while they're in their ignorance. Surely the inworking of the love of God toward the ungodly for whom Christ died bears witness to the truth of God's ultimate salvation of all. We all, born in Adam, suffer being amputated from God. My entire self is an amputation. The restoration of the rest of our lost being, our being enabled to partake of the Divine nature from which we were cut off is the story of the gospel applied to our life. "For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bone." (Ep 5:30) We are the flesh of God in the earth.
The whole post was good James , but This is profound !
knowing nothing but wickedness , never really knowing God , but an image in their own minds , cut off from God that is ...exactly what it is !
I am also seeing in their ignorance their arrogance , they go hand in hand
God will and does humble all in the End .
thanks for the reminder bro ...
love ya....... rose :HeartThrob:
I had discussions with people on that site for a couple of years. It was a very good and eye-opening experience for me, and was one of the things that was instrumental in my journey toward UR. A lot of ET casualties on that site...
I dont blame the atheists for attacking 'religion' to be honest.
In fact id soon side with them that with 'religion'.
The man raises some good points on his video, some I used to agree with myself.
Out of my limited wisdom im going to answer his questions (because i can't sleep and i'm bored lol). Also it's a good way of testing my faith...Ok, let's see...
Q1
Why won't God heal amputees?
First of all, who said he didn't? Do they have proof? That's what Atheists want isn't it? PROOF PROOF PROOF for everything? Well I DEMAND it here now as well i tells ya!
Also, if someone loses an arm because he was careless in chopping down a tree or something, what exactly has that got to do with God? It's the mans fault.
If someone is born disabled or missing limbs, Jesus said they exist so that the 'power of God can be seen'. God made them that way and as such if someone is born with no legs, he is still FULLY able to fullfill God's purpose for his life as he was simply created that way.
Q2
Why are there so many starving people in this world?
Because of sin...Sin has it's dire consequences. That's why we are to seek God and put an end to it. Yes Mr Atheist, there's no point telling us about all the problems in the world if YOU are part of it. ALL sin is punishable by death.
Q3
Why does God demand the deaths of so many innocent people in the Bible?
We are told that God is good, and that God is love, so I'm sure God had his reasons. In the Old Testament he had to protect his 'chosen' people (The Israelites) from disease etc, hence the reason children were circumcised after so many days, men couldn't sleep with women on their period, men couldn't sleep with men etc etc. Your taking this out of context, Jesus shows us what God is like, whatever happened in the Old Testament was for different people, at a different time in a very different world.
Q4
Why does the bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
Where? Oh you mean it has stories like a talking snake etc? Ever heard of symbolism? Of course you have! This is just an excuse isn't it Mr Atheist!
Long before science the Bible said the world was round and God hangs it upon nothing. Long before science the Bible told people to wash their hands under 'running water' to avoid contamination from invisible bacteria...I could go on all day, but why bother, you know the truth.
Q5
Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the bible?
Again different people different times. But the slaves in those days would have been FAR worse treated if God hadn't set rules in place for them. In fact after 6 years a slave was free to live as a free man or woman. You won't find that anywhere else in history.
Q6
Why do bad things happen to good people?
Why do you think? It's called life my friend, it's no respector of peoples.
Q7
Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the bible leave behind any evidence?
What are you expecting here? Do you think the bottle of water that Jesus turned into wine is still here? Nope it's long drunk! The people he healed are all in the grave etc etc.
Q8
How do you explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
I wouldn't have to explain it, God has revealed himself to me many times. In fact that's the reason im here talking to you today.
Q9
Why would Jesus want you to eat His body and drink His blood?
It's symbolic, (as you well know).
Bread is needed to satisfy the physical existence and sustenance just as He, being God, must be consumed in order for a person to be spiritually filled and satisfied. Just as we partake of bread with pure faith that it will keep us alive, eternal life comes through the same kind of faith in Christ.
Q10
Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians.
Because they are human and fallable. Also just because someone says they are a Christian doesn't mean they are one, or that they are living by the spirit. 'By their fruits shall you know them'.
I think i'll post this to the guy on utube that made the video now.
...With the message of universal salvation at the end of course.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:34:26 PM
Q1
Why won't God heal amputees?
I don't know, however we have the last miracle of Jesus when Jesus healed the chopped off ear although only recorded as such in Luke. Is He able to? I believe He can.
Yes! I know of a man whose foot was crushed under the wheel of a forklift. When in the Emergency ward, in answer to prayer, the bones of his foot went back together before the very eyes of the Doctors. This was a case of an amputation being divinely prevented.
Q2
Why are there so many starving people in this world?
Jesus was pretty clear in the commission given that it is up to us to feed and take care of the poor, widows and orphans.
[/quote]
Yes- mankind has created the starvation, not God. God's wrath is revealed against those who are destroying the earth. (Rev. 11:18)
Q6
Why do bad things happen to good people?
[/quote]
Luke 13:4, 5 "Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
Q8
How do you explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
This happens mostly in the Spiritual but there are testimonies of physical.
[/quote]
He's appearing to me right now as I write these words- in the Spiritual.
Q9
Why would Jesus want you to eat His body and drink His blood?
This leads me to believe that he was RC wrt the Eucharist. Again symbolic and cannot be understood carnally.
[/quote]
Jesus himself said this very thing in John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
[/quote]
Those were great answers coldwar :thumbsup:
:cloud9: Amen Coldwar.... :thumbsup:
Nother Amen here! :thumbsup:
Why won't God Heal Amputees?
This isn't the real question. The real question is, "if God is real and He wants us to believe He is good, loving, caring and wants to be in relationship with us, then why doesn't He just reveal 1/10,000th of His Glory in real, tangible, even physically expressed love and care and remove any margin for doubt? Surely an all knowing, all powerful, all loving God could do better than this? Don't give me some lame excuse of an answer, the way God has set it up kind of sucks for me."
The only answer I have is that I have to view my life as the first day of 10,000 thousand years I will live and trust that God knows what the heck He's doing. That when he says that in this age faith is essential and he won't be pleased without it (Heb 11:6) that there is a reason for that. That somehow eternal life starts now and consists of knowing him dimly, like through a crappy, crappy mirror. We have to endure crap and keep hope. We have let go of everything we consider dear, ourself, our ego, our self-centered desires of any kind. We have to lose our life. That we have to seek and seek him with minimal reward in this life for our efforts. That our peace and joy won't come in the way or feel like or be defined in the way that our flesh would like it to be.
It's no wonder that, when you add belief in eternal torment for most of mankind, it breaks some people's faith.
I freely admit that I don't like that answer, but it's my reality right now. Kind of a Psalm 13 thing.
SteveW
Quote from: reFORMer on November 13, 2007, 06:35:39 PM
Q1 Why won't God heal amputees?
Answer:
Matthew 15: 29-31
29 And Jesus departed from thence [the coasts of Tyre and Sidon], and came nigh unto the sea of Galilee; and went up into a mountain, and sat down there.
30 And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them:
31 Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.
While the reports of restorations of lost limbs and the like among Christians seem to be more common from outside the United States, certainly among those With Heidi Baker in Africa for one source, it happens here too.
A Pastor Reesie (sp?) at Grace Church in Ft Lauderdale, FL was witnessing to a young man a few years ago. The fellow said that if what he was saying about God being good, all powerful and present was true, then He should be able to heal his hand with all the fingers cut off. Brother Reesie agreed. He says God told him to shout at the fingers. So he did; for something like over 5 hours til he was completely hoarse. The fingers all grew back! The fellowship I was with for a few years met in the Grace Church building for around a year because the people had outgrown it and were meeting elsewhere. I got to meet both the pastor and the guy that had been healed. I think he drove a Firebird. They had medical papers concerning the matter.
---James
I would love to read those medical papers. Color me skeptical because this kind of thing would have made world wide news.
Luke 16:31
"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
Asking why God doesn't heal amputees is another form of testing God asking for physical proof of his existence. For reasons only known to God he chooses for us to live by faith and not by sight. I have my theories but I'm sure they fall painfully short of the truth.
The only way this question is relevant ("if God is real and He wants us to believe He is good, loving, caring and wants to be in relationship with us, then why doesn't He just reveal 1/10,000th of His Glory in real, tangible, even physically expressed love and care and remove any margin for doubt?) is if you believe in ET.
If you believe in ET then I can see the relevance of this question. Why would God stack the deck against you? So he could torture you forever? ET has so many fundamental flaws it erodes the foundation of the faith. If ET is true I would think that God who loves agape would make it abundantly clear with prime evidence of his existence and expectations.
QuoteAsking why God doesn't heal amputees is another form of testing God asking for physical proof of his existence. For reasons only known to God he chooses for us to live by faith and not by sight. I have my theories but I'm sure they fall painfully short of the truth.
The only way this question is relevant ("if God is real and He wants us to believe He is good, loving, caring and wants to be in relationship with us, then why doesn't He just reveal 1/10,000th of His Glory in real, tangible, even physically expressed love and care and remove any margin for doubt?) is if you believe in ET.
If you believe in ET then I can see the relevance of this question. Why would God stacked the deck against you? So he could torture you forever? ET has so many fundamental flaws it erodes the foundation of the faith. If ET is true I would think that God who loves agape would make it abundantly clear with prime evidence of his existence and expectations.
I think there is some relevance to this question as the evidence seems to be against God being as all loving as you claim (I know I'm supposed to blindly accept this without questioning anything), it's not a matter of faith, it's a matter of facing the grim reality of life as it really is, not how you want it to be
Although I do agree with you on one thing, the doctrine of ET being false already alleviates more than 99% of the burden, imagine being forced to live a life like this, then having to endure ET on top of it, one can then rightly claim that such a god is hateful
Before you load the image bear in mind, fundamentalist christianity would have us believe that everyone receives an equal opportunity in life, which is a cruel, callous LIE
(The image itself is very heartbreaking and disturbing, that's why I've posted a link and not the picture itself....which is of a starving child in Africa being stalked by a vulture...I personally find it heartbreaking and depressing)
http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/odds_and_oddities/assets/wanting_a_meal.jpg
I saw this image on a forum where christians of the "save me, feed me, bless me" mindset post, and this is a response to them as to why God favors them, yet lets the above happen,as well as children being raped murdered etc
In all due fairness to the christians being attacked, I couldn't help but wonder if the person/persons responsible for taking the picture did anything to help (somehow I don't think they did), for that reason alone, they would be far guiltier than anyone christian or otherwise that was 1000's of miles away, that's always accused of doing nothing :thumbdown:
I think there is some relevance to this question as the evidence seems to be against God being as all loving as you claim (I know I'm supposed to blindly accept this without questioning anything), it's not a matter of faith, it's a matter of facing the grim reality of life as it really is not how you want it to be
It's only relevant if you believe in ET. And you will never read me write nor hear me say you should accept without questioning. I am a man who has questioned everything about my faith. I have dissected atheistic argument, philosophical debate about faith and the existance of God. I have had extensive debates with Neo-evolutionists, philosophy majors, pastors, atheists in the search for truth. It wasn't until I took a new look at the teachings of hell that the light bulb came on for me.
Although I do agree with you one thing, the doctrine of ET being false already alleviates more than 99% of the burden, imagine being forced to live a life like this then having to endure ET on top of it, one can then rightly claim that such a god is hateful.
Yes, it does alleviate more than 99% of the burden. Now the Bible actually makes sense in it's entirety for the first time in my life.
Before you load the image bear in mind, fundamentalist christianity would have us believe that everyone receives and equal opportunity in life, which is a cruel, callous LIE
(The image itself very heartbreaking and disturbing, that's why I've posted a link and not the picture itself....which is of a starving child in Africa being stalked by a vulture...I personally find it heartbreaking and depressing)
http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/odds_and_oddities/assets/wanting_a_meal.jpg
I saw this image on a forum where christians of the "save me, feed me, bless me" mindset post, and this is a response to them as to why God favors them, yet lets the above happen as well as children being raped murder etc
In all fairness to the christians being attacked, I couldn't help but wonder if the person responsible for taking the picture did anything to help (somehow I don't think they did), for that reason alone, they would be far guiltier than anyone christian or otherwise that was 1000's of miles away, of doing nothing
All suffering in this life will be put into it's proper perspective in the next. I don't believe any of us get this whole life thing in it's entirety. I would wonder about anyone claiming they get it all. If your heart didn't break under the suffering of man then something is broken with your heart.
QuoteIf your heart didn't break under the suffering of man then something is broken with your heart.
It did, that's why I'm come across as contentious and impossible sometimes, the ONLY thing that matters to me is that the doctrine of ET isn't true, I no longer worry about the trivial things that once used to worry me
Quote from: Shadow on August 02, 2010, 06:25:57 PM
QuoteIf your heart didn't break under the suffering of man then something is broken with your heart.
It did, that's why I'm come across as contentious and impossible sometimes, the ONLY thing that matters to me is that the doctrine of ET isn't true, I no longer worry about the trivial things that once used to worry me
Exactly, it's called freedom and we have freedom in Christ. I was at a cross road in my faith not so long ago. I had some choices. I couldn't make sense of the Bible and I would serve God out of fear, stop believing all together, believe but know I couldn't serve a Creator who would torment his creation for eternity, or take a whole new look about the teachings of hell. I chose the last and I am so glad I did.
I suffered under this oppressive hand created by my own understanding of God. Everytime I screwed up I beat myself, grew anxious, depressed and cynical. I would repent, eventually forgive myself, feel right again for a time then rinse lather repeat. Today, I don't have to live like that. I know the God who created me loves me and I know he loves my fellow man. I know he isn't waiting with a fly swat hoping I land on the table. I forgive myself easier today, live in anxiety and depression for much shorter periods and I am able to receive the love of God.
I don't know how he works it out but I know he will work it out for the good of mankind. That's all I need to know.
QuoteExactly, it's called freedom and we have freedom in Christ. I was at a cross road in my faith not so long ago. I had some choices. I couldn't make sense of the Bible and I would serve God out of fear, stop believing all together, believe but know I couldn't serve a Creator who would torment his creation for eternity, or take a whole new look about the teachings of hell. I chose the last and I am so glad I did.
I understand the feeling and feel the same way about not being able to serve a Creator that would torment his creation for eternity, I can't fathom a worse or more monstrous concept, I couldn't even do it for the sake of self preservation, but find myself unable to disbelieve even although I'm a member of ex-christian.net, whenever I take the beliefomatic I always get Orthodox Quaker at the top and Non-theist at the bottom although I don't consider myself a christian, so it seems as if I have no option but to do the same as you, trying to get over my anger and rage is a bit of a problem though :dontknow:
QuoteI suffered under this oppressive hand created by my own understanding of God. Everytime I screwed up I beat myself, grew anxious, depressed and cynical.
I've been going through and feeling this way since January 2008, so I can relate
QuoteI would repent, eventually forgive myself, feel right again for a time then rinse lather repeat. Today, I don't have to live like that. I know the God who created me loves me and I know he loves my fellow man. I know he isn't waiting with a fly swat hoping I land on the table. I forgive myself easier today, live in anxiety and depression for much shorter periods and I am able to receive the love of God.
I've yet to reach that point, I'm afraid
QuoteI don't know how he works it out but I know he will work it out for the good of mankind. That's all I need to know.
I hope one day I'll KNOW it for sure, there are many things I have problems with apart from ET, but if I can come to this realization, then I'll be happy to love and serve God
Quote from: Shadow on August 02, 2010, 08:31:35 PM
QuoteExactly, it's called freedom and we have freedom in Christ. I was at a cross road in my faith not so long ago. I had some choices. I couldn't make sense of the Bible and I would serve God out of fear, stop believing all together, believe but know I couldn't serve a Creator who would torment his creation for eternity, or take a whole new look about the teachings of hell. I chose the last and I am so glad I did.
I understand the feeling and feel the same way about not being able to serve a Creator that would torment his creation for eternity, I can't fathom a worse or more monstrous concept, I couldn't even do it for the sake of self preservation, but find myself unable to disbelieve even although I'm a member of ex-christian.net, whenever I take the beliefomatic I always get Orthodox Quaker at the top and Non-theist at the bottom although I don't consider myself a christian, so it seems as if I have no option but to do the same as you, trying to get over my anger and rage is a bit of a problem though :dontknow:
QuoteI suffered under this oppressive hand created by my own understanding of God. Everytime I screwed up I beat myself, grew anxious, depressed and cynical.
I've been going through and feeling this way since January 2008, so I can relate
QuoteI would repent, eventually forgive myself, feel right again for a time then rinse lather repeat. Today, I don't have to live like that. I know the God who created me loves me and I know he loves my fellow man. I know he isn't waiting with a fly swat hoping I land on the table. I forgive myself easier today, live in anxiety and depression for much shorter periods and I am able to receive the love of God.
I've yet to reach that point, I'm afraid
QuoteI don't know how he works it out but I know he will work it out for the good of mankind. That's all I need to know.
I hope one day I'll KNOW it for sure, there are many things I have problems with apart from ET, but if I can come to this realization, then I'll be happy to love and serve God
I see alot of myself in your posts. I can say I asked the tough questions and stripped down my faith to it's parts. I questioned each thing I considered reality. I even tried giving up for a time. It was almost two years that I said, "I'm done". The frustration of trying to live under the law was unbearable. I always thought I was going to screw up my salvation. Then I thought to myself even if I get it right what about everyone else? Who is this God I serve who burns people for eternity? It was the two worst years of my life. I about lost my mind during that time. Anxiety and depression took over my life and I had zero joy. I was angry, cynical, and honestly I didn't think I would ever feel different. I didn't think there was anyway I could go back to believing like I did before. You know what? I was right. That process was just the beginning of a long journey (painfully long) of searching. And in the darkest hour of my life God held his hand out to me. He began explaining things to me and I began to accept. It was slow because I am naturally untrusting. I was afraid. It was a God driven process and I can take no credit. He began stripping away the spiritual abuse I heaped upon myself and that which had been placed on me. He began to open my eyes to truth about how he really feels about me and who I am in Christ. It's hard to feel loveable when you have been abused. He healed those places as well. He put me on a path of forgiveness...forgiving others who have harmed me. He also taught me to forgive myself. I sought out those I had harmed and made ammends.
Where am I today? I would love to give you a story book ending but that would be a lie. But, what I can tell you is I trust the love of God today. I can tell you I believe in his goodness. I have joy more days that I don't. I am able to place my fears in his hands. I am able to trust that he will enable and strengthen me. Life is tough but I see purpose today when I suffer. I listen to the lessons in the pain and I grow from them.
Quote from: shawn on August 02, 2010, 05:40:20 PM
Quote from: reFORMer on November 13, 2007, 06:35:39 PM
Q1 Why won't God heal amputees?
Answer:
Matthew 15:30-31
30 And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them:
31 Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.
I would love to read those medical papers. Color me skeptical because this kind of thing would have made world wide news.
Luke 16:31
"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
9 out of 10 professional journalists have never been in a "church," even to get out of the rain. These same people answered that they believe their mission is to change the thinking of the public to conform to their own ideas of things. So to what "world wide news" do refer? Apparently grass roots reports are not your cup of tea. You were given names and locations in my post that you can call the 411 operator and find telephone numbers to track down the story to its source if you are so inclined. I find it interesting you quote Luke 16:31 after your confessed skepticism. Jesus told the people of His day that they were in error because they did not know Scripture or the power of God. I can tell many examples of the power of God in manifestation. It would make little or no difference to those who do not experientially know God's Word or God's power. I'd just be securing my place as a target for the skeptics' attacks. People make their little boxes to contain God and when He manifests outside them they deny it...well, a few do repent.
You know how common in one form or another is the saying , "If God is good then why is there so much suffering in the world?" Unbelievers say it to object to God and believers say it because they don't have sufficient answers for it. One answer I almost never hear is that Jesus has opened a door that no man can shut that we may enter into total victory over everything destroying mankind. For those who enter into His presence and go no more out there is love for all their fear and hate, enightenment for all their ignorance, healing for all their disease, freedom for all their bondage, righteousness for all their sins, power for all their weakness, wealth for all their poverty, and even life for all their death. How do you believe God will eventually produce perfect everything everywhere? which indeed He will accomplish. He has a firstfruits company who will enforce His GOOD pleasure, a Royal Priesthood that will reign in all the earth! I'm not talking about weapons of carnal force, nor is it by way of "politics." It is in foretaste the present and ongoing right of any child of God through prayer and obedience. Eventually it will be by those who have entered into physical immortality and incorruptible life. Rather than by Adamic humanity, it is the manifestation of a superior species, those born of God spirit, soul, and body. This is the one thing the apostle Paul said he was doing which is to press forward into the being summoned into a higher dimension in Christ and attain unto the out-resurrection out from among the dead, that this vile body of humiliation would be transfigured into a body of Glory like Jesus' body.
Quote from: reFORMer on August 03, 2010, 08:40:23 AM
Quote from: shawn on August 02, 2010, 05:40:20 PM
Quote from: reFORMer on November 13, 2007, 06:35:39 PM
Q1 Why won't God heal amputees?
Answer:
Matthew 15:30-31
30 And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them:
31 Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.
I would love to read those medical papers. Color me skeptical because this kind of thing would have made world wide news.
Luke 16:31
"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
9 out of 10 professional journalists have never been in a "church," even to get out of the rain. These same people answered that they believe their mission is to change the thinking of the public to conform to their own ideas of things. So to what "world wide news" do refer? Apparently grass roots reports are not your cup of tea. You were given names and locations in my post that you can call the 411 operator and find telephone numbers to track down the story to its source if you are so inclined. I find it interesting you quote Luke 16:31 after your confessed skepticism. Jesus told the people of His day that they were in error because they did not know Scripture or the power of God. I can tell many examples of the power of God in manifestation. It would make little or no difference to those who do not experientially know God's Word or God's power. I'd just be securing my place as a target for the skeptics' attacks. People make their little boxes to contain God and when He manifests outside them they deny it...well, a few do repent.
You know how common in one form or another is the saying , "If God is good then why is there so much suffering in the world?" Unbelievers say it to object to God and believers say it because they don't have sufficient answers for it. One answer I almost never hear is that Jesus has opened a door that no man can shut that we may enter into total victory over everything destroying mankind. For those who enter into His presence and go no more out there is love for all their fear and hate, enightenment for all their ignorance, healing for all their disease, freedom for all their bondage, righteousness for all their sins, power for all their weakness, wealth for all their poverty, and even life for all their death. How do you believe God will eventually produce perfect everything everywhere? which indeed He will accomplish. He has a firstfruits company who will enforce His GOOD pleasure, a Royal Priesthood that will reign in all the earth! I'm not talking about weapons of carnal force, nor is it by way of "politics." It is in foretaste the present and ongoing right of any child of God through prayer and obedience. Eventually it will be by those who have entered into physical immortality and incorruptible life. Rather than by Adamic humanity, it is the manifestation of a superior species, those born of God spirit, soul, and body. This is the one thing the apostle Paul said he was doing which is to press forward into the being summoned into a higher dimension in Christ and attain unto the out-resurrection out from among the dead, that this vile body of humiliation would be transfigured into a body of Glory like Jesus' body.
To each their own reformer. I don't know anything about grassroots but yes I am skeptical of "miracles" but I'm not skeptical of God or his power. I am skeptical of men not God. Do I believe God still performs miracles? Yes. Do I believe everyone who claims a miracle...no.
With that said, God doesn't have to regenerate limbs for me to believe in his power, ability or goodness.
Who was it in the 70's that pointed out our news basically comes from only two sources: Reuters and Associated Press and that we shouldn't expect "truth" from something so limited and managed...by "grass roots" is meant the masses of people, the common man, the average man encountered in the street, your friends and neighbors rather than an institutional or official source.
I tend to suspend belief in a lot of words I encounter. We're probably in agreement about that. As I've gotten older I've also learned to disregard local hearsay as the back biting and slander that it invariably is. I've been on the receiving end of that kind of thing and do dislike it indeed.
In the list that we commonly refer to as spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12) that is translated, "miracles" in the King James is more accurately, "powers." These are specificly workings of the Spirit of God and seem more prominent in certain believers than in others.
Quote from: reFORMer on August 03, 2010, 07:59:06 PM
Who was it in the 70's that pointed out our news basically comes from only two souorces: Reuters and Associated Press and that we shouldn't expect "truth" from something so managed...
Believe me I don't trust our news outlets. I'm merely saying that I don't believe everyone who claims miracle miracle. I also don't need to see miracles to prove anything to me about God. I am my own miracle and the only witness to his love I need to see. With that said, I see miracles every day. I just came back from an AA meeting and I seen a room full of them. It encourages my soul to know that God loves the least of these...of which I am one.
Quote from: shawn on August 03, 2010, 08:23:06 PM
Quote from: reFORMer on August 03, 2010, 07:59:06 PM
Who was it in the 70's that pointed out our news basically comes from only two souorces: Reuters and Associated Press and that we shouldn't expect "truth" from something so managed...
Believe me I don't trust our news outlets. I'm merely saying that I don't believe everyone who claims miracle miracle. I also don't need to see miracles to prove anything to me about God. I am my own miracle and the only witness to his love I need to see. With that said, I see miracles every day. I just came back from an AA meeting and I seen a room full of them. It encourages my soul to know that God loves the least of these...of which I am one.
A lot of good faith in God around those tables....I've spent a few 24 hours planting my feet and shutting my mouth, these days people want to hear whar I have to say as well. (Oct 23 2005 Sob. date).
How many times has God revealed himself to the world? How many times has the end result been to ask for "more proof"? There never will be incontrovertible evidence....but if you allow Him into your heart you don't need it, you have all the evidence you need.
How many times has God revealed himself to the world? How many times has the end result been to ask for "more proof"? There never will be incontrovertible evidence....but if you allow Him into your heart you don't need it, you have all the evidence you need.
[/quote]
:thumbsup:
Amen!
Quote from: Reverend G on November 15, 2010, 11:33:55 PM
Quote from: shawn on August 03, 2010, 08:23:06 PM
Quote from: reFORMer on August 03, 2010, 07:59:06 PM
Who was it in the 70's that pointed out our news basically comes from only two souorces: Reuters and Associated Press and that we shouldn't expect "truth" from something so managed...
Believe me I don't trust our news outlets. I'm merely saying that I don't believe everyone who claims miracle miracle. I also don't need to see miracles to prove anything to me about God. I am my own miracle and the only witness to his love I need to see. With that said, I see miracles every day. I just came back from an AA meeting and I seen a room full of them. It encourages my soul to know that God loves the least of these...of which I am one.
A lot of good faith in God around those tables....I've spent a few 24 hours planting my feet and shutting my mouth, these days people want to hear whar I have to say as well. (Oct 23 2005 Sob. date).
How many times has God revealed himself to the world? How many times has the end result been to ask for "more proof"? There never will be incontrovertible evidence....but if you allow Him into your heart you don't need it, you have all the evidence you need.
Sorry I didn't see this earlier. Great post and I agree. How many more miracles do we need to see in order to believe? I see so many miracles. I see those without faith who are drunks/addicts, dead spiritually....stop drinking/drugging, gain sobriety gain a knowledge and relationship to God. They will tell you straight...most of these guys won't pull any punches. "I didn't do this" They know it was of no power of their own...most can't even fully explain it to you. If that isn't a miracle I don't know what one is. I will say this though, God has shown himself to me not only through others but through my own circumstances. I know...and I am without excuse.
(8/9/07...sob date)-of no power of my own.
Q1
Why won't God heal amputees?
Perhaps because it might interfere with ------? I've heard many stories of people that are amputees who've said they wouldn't change what happened to them. That their struggles made them who they are.
Sub topics
We believe in answered prayer, so why is a prayer for a raise etc. not have the same effect as a prayer of a starving person.
Who says it doesn't? I pray all through the day-if a raise is God's will-so that it allows for something in his plan, then it can have the same effect.
Q2
Why are there so many starving people in this world?
Again, I believe it comes down to. Like others have said, we have been given stewardship over this realm. This is where we are to learn to act Christ like. We are to do His good works, and not allow our brothers and sisters to go hungry. If someone is hungry-it is our fault.
Q3
Why does God demand the deaths of so many innocent people in the Bible?
Does he? I always pray and ask God for discernment. Something that came to me long ago was, "if it's not love, it's not God." Something got lost in translation-man is fallible, I'm convinced that is NOT God's way.
Alludes to disobedient teenagers, non-virgins, homosexuals, people working on the Sabbath day
A lot of people who go to these sites are just these people. Some are in rebellion of God, and they know this will cause them to feel outraged and line themselves with their own beliefs. They are getting paid for ads on their site...it's a no brainer why they bring these up.
Q4
Why does the bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
Well why does it contain so much that CAN be proved with archeology. Hello, there are many historical sites that say it happened, and in the correct time line even.
Claims of no worldwide flood, Jonah and the fish, man was not created from the dust.
hmmm, the worldwide flood-there seems to be a lot of scientific evidence this happened. In the Jewish tradition stories were told to teach. Jesus taught this way. I do think some stories are not literal.
Q5
Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the bible?
Same as my answer on question three.
Q6
Why do bad things happen to good people?
Again... Instead of us being puppets, we were given the choice to come to Him. Bad things happen just because they do. Because humans are accident pron, cars weigh a 1000 lbs, we wage war with one another.....
Q7
Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the bible leave behind any evidence?
A resurrection that was so miraculous it is talked about after over 2000 years is sure a heck of a lot of evidence.
Q8
How do you explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
Oh but he did! As a child! I have no clue why it doesn't happen to everyone. There are many people with experiences.
Q9
Why would Jesus want you to eat His body and drink His blood?
What a silly argument. lol Do I physically consume The Christ. No, it's symbolic. It's some bread and wine. :)
Q10
Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians.
All fall short of the glory of God? It's that -------- again. Whatever your religion, marriage is hard, and people are weak. (excluding of course people who left because of violence.)
lightening, please check your private messages. thanks.
NOTE: I am waay more polite and courteous when in dialogue with atheists, than I am in this post. A bit impatient today. Same old, same old debate, no matter how many times you answer it, they'll simply ignore the answere and make another list or even the same one!.
Q1
Why won't God heal amputees?
All imperfection is the result of thinking ability, thus choice being endowed. The other option, obviously, is no rational creatures. Choice ('free-will') is now being let to run its course, obviously or the world would indeed be perfect. God has only interfered two or three critical times to prevent annihilation (and collapse before anything is proven/learned). and to build up and provide the rescue for all. To interfere and prevent one person's suffering would require the prevention of everyone's suffering. To be interfering is to not be 'free-will'. (Instead of what is sometimes presented by well meaning believers, as some sort of cosmic accident God did not foresee! God can only be Perfect, therefor the 'end' result of all this can only be not only perfect, but the best one possible.)
Sub topics
We believe in answered prayer, so why is a prayer for a raise etc. not have the same effect as a prayer of a starving person.
- maybe they should try reasoning power see if they can come up with any reasons :laughing7:.
Q2
Why are there so many starving people in this world?
Consequences of man's ways. When thinking ability was endowed, so was the ability to choose. Life is as it is as a result of all choices made upon Earth. Choice/'free-will' is being let to run its course or else it's not 'free-will'. (God, since He ultimately caused all this by allowing reasoning power, built the rescue into all things "from the beginning" ("from the foundation of the world"). His other choice? [He has done aLl things as He has in order to bring about the best ultimate reality. Think about it.]
Q3
Why does God demand the deaths of so many innocent people in the Bible?
Alludes to disobedient teenagers, non-virgins, homosexuals, people working on the Sabbath day.
Everyone dies. Every one will be resurrected and ultimately saved/rescued. Israel's early wars were against nations steeped in grisly human sacrifice. Even these He will resurrect and save. The strict OT laws were for one tiny nation in-order-to somewhat prepare a place for the savior/rescuer to come through, as opposed to coming in the midst of tree worshipers or something. Also OT law is an example of reality. God is Life and Perfection, to choose or do anything other than what God chooses is to become imperfect, the opposite-of-life/God (but! there's a 2nd resurrection after which those not believing will be 'lost' but after being resurrected, etc, who's not going to believe? :happygrin: hence! not lost. God is greatly underestimated! aNd His character blasphemed everyday by this. The theory of so many lost, and, the mistranslation "hell" which of course should read "death" or "the grave" opposite of God/Life/Perfection).
Q4
Why does the bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
Claims of no worldwide flood, Jonah and the fish, man was not created from the dust.
Like when Jesus said "after the tribulation of those days... He will send out His angels to the four corners of the world to gather His elect"? (dah) the four directions, north, south, east, west. When the rest of the world thought the earth was supported on the back of Atlas, a turtle or an elephant, the Bible said the sun travels each day in its circuit and nothing is hid from its heat, no bottom! :laughing7: and also used the phrase the "circle of the earth". (Psalm 19:6 & Isaiah 40:22) Man is made of the same elements as the earth. There is lots of evidence and all peoples have legends of a world flood which aged everything under it.
- fossils found in piles like washed up in a tide. Sea fossils where there is no sea. There are many ways of dating the earth which suggest much younger earth than their chosen one of a handful which suggest the millions, oops now billions of years needed for evolution which couldn't happen in trillions of years. "Living fossils" were fossils found thought to be ancient and even extinct life forms until they were discovered alive and well as research advanced, and surprise! They forgot to evolve. Same today. The 'dinosaur' is the most described animal/creature in the bible. Now science admits they were concurrent with man. (As dragon legends of so many peoples suggested.) Adamant atheists come off like (and believe that) the theory of evolution has been proven but this is waay false! (When something is disproved they don't always take it out of the text books!) Evolution is a belief just like anything else. SCIENCE strongly suggests it cannot be true. It takes a lot of faith to believe nothing, exploded, and become everything. If everything evolved from one 1st life (the 113 amino acids lined up perfectly which top mathematicians have said is impossible to the 50th degree) that would be an unimaginable number of transitional links, but they have only a handful of possibles. Those after Darwin went much further than Darwin who said if one thing that exists could not come about through a series of small changes, his theory would be disproven. He said that when they still thought the cell was just a glob rather than like a highly complex metropolis and communications network; also before the DNA "code" was discovered (instructions and information comes from where?) The theory is but an adult fairy tale which lets man think he is the higher power and final authority (point in fact, and see just where that/man in control, has gotten us!). If the complex bird fit for travel evolved than so did the less complex 747. Everything in matter is made up of 100+ elements arranged in different ways, much like the 26 letters of the alphabet is arranged to make up words. If chance could produce the universe and life, it also would create a work of Shakespeare. The second most held law of science states all of matter (and communication) is falling apart, breaking up, not evolving into increased complexity or improvement. Atheistic science tries to say the sun entering the system changes that law, but pluck a leaf from a tree, lay it in the sun for a few days, and see if it improves. Only living things improve via the use of sunshine. So sun entering the system did not suspend the 2nd law of science (entropy) long enough for life to evolve from nonlife. Even if so how did the sun and universe come to be before the sun light suspended the 2nd law of science?
- How did an evolving creature breathe while it was evolving its lungs? How did any creature survive the hundreds of years it was evolving its survival mechanism?
--The flaws in this theory are endless.. Richard Dawkins wrote in a book he thinks the flying squirrel evolved into the bird. Squirrels do not fly, they have pads between their toes which allow them to fall more slowly. The whale evolved into the cow? Puhlease. (I am much more cordial however when in a discussion! :) Anyone who can create the universe in six ("AN evening and A morning") days could cause the experience of Jonah. [It takes a lot of faith to believe in that immaculate conception: nothing, exploded, and became everything.)
Q6
Why do bad things happen to good people?
er, think about it? God could have created robots and we wouldn't have this problem. (dah)
Q7
Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the bible leave behind any evidence?
Why did the witnesses who testified to these things via the gospels allow themselves to be killed for them if not true? (all except the apostle John who died of old age) and so many Christians in that day and since if the Person they know (Jesus) doesn't exist? And if they don't really know Him..
Q8
How do you explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
How to account for the fact that we know Him, He is real and communicates, teaches, heals to this day. Known by millions. Hard to convince someone that someone they know, doesn't exist.
Q9
Why would Jesus want you to eat His body and drink His blood?
Jesus crucified is a strong enough statement to eventually penetrate every psyche. He is the only sacrifice ever needed unlike in the just previous and even concurrent pagan beliefs; the blood and flesh also mimics this strongest of the pagan practices worldwide, and is the bread of life, the Bible, and the Spirit which is the lifeblood. As Christians for success we need the Spirit and the Word and to do those two in remembrance of Him. Our daily bread (and Spirit/Presence of God). "Man shall not live on bread alone but by the words of God"
Q10
Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians.
Do they? They are not supernatural but still human, also one third of all angels rebelled which is MANY and they are constantly undermining Christians and Christian relationships, and many do not know how to use the weapons of God against them.
He did during the move in the 40's, several times. and there is documented proof.
Quote from: Gary Amirault on October 27, 2007, 08:56:50 PM
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=bc1ece7f50dea1e94a70650ea6578c98&board=2.0 (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=bc1ece7f50dea1e94a70650ea6578c98&board=2.0)
We are putting up some of your videos on YouTube.com and stumbled into a site that caught my attention. After the video, I went to their site and saw they had a discussion board. Perhaps some of you could visit the boards and make comments.
Here's the video. It is well done. I'm sure it will rock a few people's faith:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=z9pDURu8u74 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=z9pDURu8u74)
Understand that I believe that The Creator is the one who is totally aware and incontrol of all the happenings and workings of the entire world all the time.
So now I state this, you have just read how I believe that God has total control of all things happening in the entire world. I believe this. I say this with no anamosity, or dislike. As the world turns and continues stuff will happen. If in the turn of time a person, be they saint or sinner, was in the path of a certain happening of events that God allowed to happen, that this is life.
I have to believe that God, in this world, from its beginning and as it continues on, to make the world as it is, there needs be folks with members taken, arms or legs how ever it may happen. I have no way of explaining. He cant heal something that is part of the whole scope, part of how this world is the world. He made a world that had arms or legs removed. I dont see how we can wonder how life would be, should that part of life not be there. Healed, it is not part of how it is.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
This seems to be the hit of the week with Atheists. So let me pose the questions so we can formulate our answers, this guy says we abandon all rationality so it will be interesting to see how this pans out.
Q1
Why won't God heal amputees?
God does heal amputees. However there are so few amputees that know how to call on the lord to get themselves healed. I actually see no point in getting healed, it will make no difference when your body will pass away.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Sub topics
We believe in answered prayer, so why is a prayer for a raise etc. not have the same effect as a prayer of a starving person.
You mean praying for evil to be done?
1 John 2:15-17
15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world—
the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. 17And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.
Jesus fasted and these people don't wonder why?
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q2
Why are there so many starving people in this world?
Because they aren't getting enough food. If your asking why jesus isn't proactively feeding people -- maybe it's because it wouldn't please god.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q3
Why does God demand the deaths of so many innocent people in the Bible?
Alludes to disobedient teenagers, non-virgins, homosexuals, people working on the Sabbath day
God demands the SECOND death on so many guilty people.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q4
Why does the bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
Claims of no worldwide flood, Jonah and the fish, man was not created from the dust.
I could care less.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q5
Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the bible?
A slave never was actually a slave, just like someone divorced never really gets divorced, they are married couples apart from each other.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q6
Why do bad things happen to good people?
Nobody is a good person. What scenario you think is bad might seen as good for another person.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q7
Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the bible leave behind any evidence?
Because such miracles wouldn't leave behind evidence.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q8
How do you explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
He did appear to me.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q9
Why would Jesus want you to eat His body and drink His blood?
Metaphorical. Read John 6:22-59.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q10
Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians.
Becoming a believer doesn't change your flesh mind on earth.
A few other alternative answers
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
This seems to be the hit of the week with Atheists. So let me pose the questions so we can formulate our answers, this guy says we abandon all rationality so it will be interesting to see how this pans out.
Q1
Why won't God heal amputees?
God does heal amputees. There are so few fountains where the living water is flowing freely and the raw power of the Holy Spirit usually manifests where there is an acceptable sacrifice to visit upon(lives completely laid down for the love of Christ), but don't worry- these things and even greater shall you see because I(jesus) go to my Father- there have been waves of glory off and on through out history and I believe we are in for a new wave.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Sub topics
We believe in answered prayer, so why is a prayer for a raise etc. not have the same effect as a prayer of a starving person.
Prayer involves several dynamics. Sometimes desperation energizes faith in a powerful way- and moves the heart of a loving God, who may still bless me with a raise.
1 John 2:15-17
15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world—
the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. 17And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.
Jesus fasted and these people don't wonder why?
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q2
Why are there so many starving people in this world?
Because they aren't getting enough food. Jesus left the stewardship of this problem in the hands of the church- but we prefer, "Go your way(to social services)- be warmed and filled(somewhere else, not here- and certainly not my house)- as they build more half empty churches to house carnal(immature, naturally minded) believers
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q3
Why does God demand the deaths of so many innocent people in the Bible?
Alludes to disobedient teenagers, non-virgins, homosexuals, people working on the Sabbath day
Some people need real hard lines or they just can't stop destroying themselves and others (look at Sodom and Gomorrah- where an orgy of murder and perversion was taking place daily)
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q4
Why does the bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
Claims of no worldwide flood, Jonah and the fish, man was not created from the dust.
One mans science is another man's nonsense ;o)
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q5
Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the bible?
God leaves us a lot of leeway in the stewardship of our lives, our communities, our families. Sometimes He says, in effect- "If you are going to do thus and so- make sure you do it like this. As Jesus said- Moses allowed them divorce because of the hardness of their hearts, but from the beginning it was not so. We always want to blame God for our evil. We don't like the responsibility of free wills. They chose a king, altho God warned them not to. It was because he wanted them to live in freedom and beauty- but they would not have because they didn t want the responsibility of free wills.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q6
Why do bad things happen to good people?
The rain falls on the just and the unjust, and we'll understand it better by and by......
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q7
Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the bible leave behind any evidence?
The testimony of Jesus Christ is evidence to me.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q8
How do you explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
He did appear to me.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q9
Why would Jesus want you to eat His body and drink His blood?
Metaphorical. Read John 6:22-59.
Quote from: 97531 on October 30, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
Q10
Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians.
Because contemporary Western cultural Christianity does not deliver enough grace to stem the tide of destruction that is washing over our land like a wreckage filled tsunami
EW stated Because they aren't getting enough food. Jesus left the stewardship of this problem in the hands of the church- but we prefer, "Go your way(to social services)- be warmed and filled(somewhere else, not here- and certainly not my house)- as they build more half empty churches to house carnal(immature, naturally minded) believers
My spirit jumped as I read this...Amen.
Good work to everyone who has already posted responses to these. :bigGrin:
With a bit of thought, the answers to all of these questions are rational, and there is plenty of positive evidence (especially for Jesus' resurrection, and for Design in Physics, for example) – it's a popular (and false) stereotype that the Christian worldview is 'irrational'. Universal Reconciliation is a great tool, also, for some of these questions!
No-one needs to be concerned when questions like these come up! Atheism is imaginary, not God! (Sorry, the following post is quite long...)
Q1
Why won't God heal amputees?
Answer to Q1: I disagree with this; if we think about it, every single disabled amputee will ultimately be healed in the eventual reconciliation and bodily resurrection in the New Creation. Therefore, it is just a matter of time before every single prayer (in good intention) made by everyone will be answered in full (in the best way), with any wait only allowed for the eventual benefit of the individual (as an act of love by the Father, in a similar way to how a parent on Earth may postpone giving a child something if they knew that it would ultimately benefit them). Every person is treated with love by God, without exception. This makes the question a generally false one.
Regardless, it is quite possible that a) Jesus did heal amputees during His time on Earth, which is supported by the evidence for the resurrection, b) God implicitly heals people by preventing them from being maimed in the first place (it is possible that this 'implicit healing' has taken place many millions of times), even if they don't realise His intervention and c) there are some very interesting cases:
One was where, after prayer, 4 inches of bone regrew in a very badly injured leg (there is video testimony from the family) that was thus not amputated, as it otherwise may have been (see http://www.rogerwebb.org/testimonies/removedbonegrowsback.html)
Another is a possible actual documented case of the restoration of an amputated leg, with some interesting evidence to go with it in Calanda, Spain (even reported on Wikipedia): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Calanda.
However, far above the healing of amputees, we have very good evidence for something much greater: Jesus' bodily resurrection (see later for a case on this)
Sub topics
We believe in answered prayer, so why is a prayer for a raise etc. not have the same effect as a prayer of a starving person.
Q2
Why are there so many starving people in this world?
Answer to sub-topic and Q2: Firstly, it is having an effect: prayer works on the person doing the praying (acting as a channel by which God can, perhaps, inspire them to give more money to charity), and, as per earlier, all starvation and famine (especially for the poor people who suffered it) will be ended and hence all such prayers answered in a spectacular fashion. Again, there may be a pause for some ultimately loving reason (where, in light of eternity, such a reason could be very substantial indeed), but it shall ultimately be answered. In addition, we again have the case that, it seems to me, God is constantly sustaining the universe, intervening even when we don't end up perceiving it, and so far more famines have been prevented than allowed to take place.
Q3
Why does God demand the deaths of so many innocent people in the Bible?
Answer to Q3: Now, in this following way I may be making use of a principle that is contentious, but I presently advocate a method of thinking about the inspired text in the Bible that I could call 'agape-centred hermeneutics', where, after taking into account other factors, an 'agape test' is given, where the literal meaning of the verse is considered to see whether it fits into the well-documented principle that "God is love". If it doesn't fit with this, it is quite plausible that it may not be referring to a literal event, but figurative language (like a parable, which is just as meaningful and inspired); this is how I presently view some of the more difficult passages in the Old Testament, where it seems to me that such events as the harsher laws and events may not be referring to literal (i.e. historical) implementation, but instead more in the form of a parable. This wouldn't remove from inspiration, but allows passage over many problems. Then, in the context of eternal life, the mystery of such verses would gradually be unfolded to ultimately see the clear picture of God's love behind them.
In this way, I think that the charge against God in Q3 is false. I know that this interpretation method may be contentious, but at least it prevents people being turned away from Christianity on the basis of such passages (which may distract from the much greater importance of Jesus).
Q4
Why does the bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
Answer to Q4: I disagree again. Personally, I take Genesis to have (very important) figurative meaning, such as, primarily, God's Creation of the universe and life, but also, it seems to me, the equality of man and woman (as shown by the fact that the man is the one who did worse, sinning of his own accord, while Eve did it more as a result of deceit) and the stewardship of life. The mechanism for this creation can be disagreed about, but there is no need for controversy. I personally concede to guided evolution, i.e. creation through Darwinian evolution, where the 'random' processes were actually guided by God to bring about purpose.
I disagree with a literal flood, instead interpreting the passage to be a very important parable (still inspired by God) alluding to baptism and repentance, for example. However, anyone who wishes to disagree with this interpretation is free to do so: there is the potential for a local flood, for example.
Q5
Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the bible?
Answer to Q5: Yet again I disagree. It seems to me that modern conceptions of slavery, where slaves were kidnapped from their former countries, is actively prohibited by the Bible (since kidnapping is prohibited, as is stealing, which should include, of course, human life). Israel were actually released from slavery! Clearly, God abhors slavery; the references to allowing it, in my opinion, would refer only to voluntary servitude rather than forced slavery, and the idea of man being made in "the image of God" ought to instantly demolish any forms of discrimination that can lead to forced slavery, or treating people as 'property.
Hence, I disagree with Q5: God abhors anything which is hateful and harmful, which is what slavery is.
Q6
Why do bad things happen to good people?
Answer to Q6: With Universal Reconciliation, this question becomes much easier to answer. It seems to me that evil is a product of the misuse of free will on creatures with 'transworld depravity' (Alvin Plantinga's term referring to the idea that, no matter what situation God placed certain free creatures in, they would do at least one wrong). It also seems to me that it is possible that non-human beings (of whatever sort) could be entirely responsible for natural evil, hence reducing all forms of evil to moral evil. Then, it is only allowed to the extent that, in the context of eternal happiness, every wrong ultimately brings about, for every single individual (so no person is used as a means to an end), a wonderfully greater good. In this way, the allowing of temporary in a loving manner is not in contrast to God's goodness.
In addition, this question is interesting on its own, since it presumes a standard of 'good' and 'evil' by which to measure the world. Yet this cannot be done without an objective set of morals, set as ideas within a necessary Mind, which is God; the atheist worldview has no real justification for objective morality (although, of course, atheists still behave as though there were an objective morality). Hence, the Problem of Evil cannot be put forward unless we first presume the existence of God in the first place, and hence it utterly fails to contradict the idea of God's existence, only offering up a real challenge to God's goodness, which is not a very powerful challenge for the reasons stated in the above paragraph.
This can actually become the moral argument: if we want objective moral values (e.g. 'racism is wrong') that are justified and grounded in reasoning, we require God as a necessary (impossible to fail to exist) Mind whose will determines the morality of actions
Q7
Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the bible leave behind any evidence?
Answer to Q7: There is certainly evidence for the main miraculous event of the New Testament: the resurrection of Jesus the Christ, which I have adapted from a post that I did elsewhere:
I think that the evidence for the resurrection is often underestimated. A case for the resurrection can be made using mainly a few facts that the significant majority of scholars (atheist to Christian) agree upon (the minimal facts method), even if we take the Gospels and Paul's letters as just historical sources rather than presuming inspired content:
1) Jesus was crucified on a Roman cross (as evidenced by Tacitus, Josephus and Paul, amongst others)
2) The disciples, subsequent to the resurrection, had experiences which they sincerely believed to be those of the risen Jesus (as seen in the very early creed contained in a passage in 1 Corinthians 15)
3) James, Jesus' brother, who is recorded as being a sceptic in the Gospels (where the criterion of embarrassment supports the authenticity of this) became a Christian, and the persecutor Paul, after experiencing what he sincerely believed to be the risen Jesus, became a devoted preacher of Christianity.
The above have general scholarly consensus (as compiled by research of large numbers of qualified scholars by Dr. Gary Habermas), and so can be used as the 'building blocks' of any explanation to explain them.
Well attested also is the idea of the empty tomb, due to the 'Jerusalem factor': because early Christian preaching was in Jerusalem, and Jesus was buried near Jerusalem. If the Jewish officials had wanted to destroy the upcoming Christian Church, all they would have had to have done would be to show them Jesus' body (had it not been resurrected); doing this could have destroyed the movement. Yet they didn't do this, and Christianity grew! The sensible conclusion from this is that the tomb was indeed empty, baffling the officials.
Then, we can use the following historical criteria, which are important to help moderate explanations that are posited:
**Explanatory power** – can the explanation explain the evidence easily, without forcing it to fit?
**Explanatory scope** – can the explanation explain all the known data?
**Ad hoc assumptions** – are there any assumptions with no evidence whatsoever that must be made?
**Plausibility** – is the explanation plausible in itself?
One old objection is that Jesus didn't actually die, and so 'woke up' after being crucified and somehow managed to walk back from the place of burial to the disciples and convince them that He had been raised to life. This 'swoon hypothesis' can be widely rejected (and it is rejected today even by the majority of atheist scholars). It utterly fails the plausibility criterion, for starters, because, apart from the friends recorded by the historian Josephus (who were removed from crucifixion early, and a few of them died as a result of this regardless despite good medical care), just about no-one survived crucifixion, let alone burial, let alone examination by Roman soldiers for signs of life. Even if Jesus had, however, He in no way would have been able to escape from the tomb, fight any guards present, walk to find the disciples (without being spotted by anyone as covered in blood), and then convince them of resurrection, without any professional medical attention. This is especially evident with James, being a sceptic who became a Christian. Hence, this idea lacks plausibility, and explanatory power (without forcing the facts to fit). It also lacks scope, not fitting the many resurrection appearances, not accounting for Jesus after this point (where would He have gone after He found the disciples?), and certainly not fitting Paul's conversion. Jesus' survival is also an ad hoc assumption.
Another objection is hallucination. This is also a poor alternative, as it would require the vast majority of the witness disciples to be the hallucinogenic type of person, which is ad hoc and implausible, given many of these disciples were chosen by Jesus, from a variety of backgrounds. They would also have to have been convinced that the experiences were bodily rather than the traditional Jewish idea of disembodied spirits after death in order to declare 'resurrection' out of the blue. Hence, this 'alternative' is inherently implausible, given the ancient creed's account (from 1 Corinthians 15) of many people having experiences simultaneously (500 people are mentioned at one stage, and a group this size is massively unlikely to have any multiple accounts of definite bodily experiences). The hallucination idea does not account well for James' conversion (from a sceptic), who would have doubted such experiences had they happened to others, and is also unconvincing in terms of Paul's dramatic conversion.
It also fails to account for the success of the early Christian movement (even though its followers were few), compared to other, similar movements, without making more ad hoc assumptions. The mutation in Jewish teaching about the resurrection (i.e. different ideas about how it happened to people) from the diversity of approaches prior to Jesus' death to a singular, bodily approach is also not accounted for by this hypothesis. Also, with the evidence for the empty tomb this approach becomes even less useful. Hence, it seems that hallucination hypotheses have poor explanatory power (forcing the facts to fit) as well as very little explanatory scope, especially with the evidence for the empty tomb.
In stark contrast to the above, agreeing to the resurrection has explanatory scope and explanatory power that instantly explains all the facts (together with many others) with absolutely no forcing. Due to the other theistic arguments that there are, the plausibility (by God's intervention, not by natural means, as the latter would not be plausible) is sufficient and it contains no non-evidenced assumptions. Therefore, the best historical explanation for the consensus of facts is the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Q8
How do you explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
Answer to Q8: I disagree again: Jesus has become present in the life of any person who genuinely calls upon God, as is often evidenced by their radically changed habits and attitude, through the Holy Spirit and through the Bible. Indeed, all Christians, whether UR, ET, ED etc., are members of the Body of Christ, with all other people analogous to lost sheep, future members. Some people have had visual perceptions of Jesus, but this is not necessary for a person to experience Him. Regardless, even if we have absolutely no experience of Jesus, this will ultimately be turned around in the New Creation, with the postponement only for loving purposes of God. Hence, this question really is not too significant.
Q9
Why would Jesus want you to eat His body and drink His blood?
Answer to Q9: Jesus is, of course, not just a human: although He had a human nature, He was fully God. Thus, in Holy Communion, even if we take the reference to the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ literally, it is more God feeding us with Himself in the ultimate act of true self-giving love in Jesus. Since God is love, this feeding is on love and is a powerful symbol of the transformation of a person through trust in Jesus and calling on God.
Q10
Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians.
Answer to Q10: Since people have been given responsibility (for the purpose of improvement and development upto the standard for the New Creation), there is no reason why a Christian couple is physically forced to remain together, as this would abrogate free will. Indeed, I have strong feelings against divorce because of its effect on the former partners and (especially) the children, as well as Jesus' injunction (but, of course, people who have divorced are just as valuable as everyone else); I think that the Christian divorce rate is more a mistake made by modern Christians than any other reflection. Potentially the emphasis on self-giving love has not been emphasised enough.
Sorry that this post was quite long!
I have some material at http://rationalchristianworldview.blogspot.com/ if anyone's interested.
:cloud9: Only to answer the title question......because the heart of the priesthood has not been sufficiently cleansed to manifest such a thing outwardly. What is in the heart of the priesthood is what is manifesting "out there". The body (out there) can only manifest what "it" sees the head do. Loss of limbs, specifically the loss of a hand, was punishment for theft. Until theft is dealt with in the heart of the priesthood and cleansed, the outward manifestation (healing) cannot manifest, because Satan cannot cast out Satan.
What theft? "Will a man rob God? Yea, in tithes and offerings." And as usual, it's not a literal natural understanding of this He's after. Blessings....
He walks among the lampstands. He tries the reigns and the hearts. he separates soul and spirit, bone and marrow, making manifest the thoughts and intentions of the heart. "Therefore repent lest I come quickly(the word is quick and active, sharper than any two edged sword) and remove your lampstand from its place.
The Lord is not slow concerning His promises, such as some count slowness.
I believe the whole thing boils down to why exactlypeople are 1.) mad at God 2.) mad at the world and/or 3.) No longer believe there is a God.
The very simple answer is that the person that feels any of these 3 (or all 3) things
Does not approve of the way God is running the world, the circumstances that God allowed to occur, and doesn't make it 100% clear as to what he is doing.
In short, the omnipotent, omniscient God is not running the universe and doing things exactly the way this fallible, limited individual thinks he should.