Who never died?

[Paul]

I heard that one or two people in the Bible never died physically...

[martincisneros]

Enoch and Elijah, though some dispute it.  Some say others throughout history have never died.  But Enoch and Elijah are both said to have ascended straight into heaven without death.  Some try to make too much out of Jesus' comment about no one had previously ever gone to heaven.  Though it may be true that everybody, good or bad, either stayed in their graves or went straight down into some compartment in the earth prior to the resurrection of Jesus, I personally believe that Jesus' comment was being a bit more confrontational with His critics who were presuming to know sooo much more than Him.  I don't believe He was necessarily meaning it as a universal truth, but was simply saying that no one among them had been to heaven yet.

[Paul]

Heh, interesting.

[AJ]

Hebrews 11     
11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 
11:2
For by it the elders obtained a good report. 
11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. 
11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh (5731) . 
11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 
11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 
11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. 
11:8
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 
11:9
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 
11:10
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 
11:11
Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age *, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 
11:12
Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 
11:13
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.



Enoch was mentioned in verse 5 and then in verse 13 states that ALL DIED.

Just because Elijah was said to have ascended - doesn't mean he didn't die.
When he got up above 40,000 feet there isn't enough oxygen to sustain life for a flesh and blood human.

I was just relating common horse sense.

[martincisneros]

Enoch was mentioned in verse 5 and then in verse 13 states that ALL DIED.

Just because Elijah was said to have ascended - doesn't mean he didn't die.
When he got up above 40,000 feet there isn't enough oxygen to sustain life for a flesh and blood human.

I was just relating common horse sense.

Perfect illustration of why horses need to be trained.  So you're saying God took Elijah to heaven just to kill him because He couldn't come up with oxygen?  Elijah, whose name has two of God's Old Testament names in it? (i.e. El and YHVH: El and Jah)  God brought death to the Old Testament picture of two of His Names?  Illustrating what?  That ultimately God must die too?  Twice?  Something you forgot to mention about Hebrews 11 is where it says "and what more shall I say?  For time would fail me to tell of......."  The author of Hebrews 11 knew he was being extremely brief and oversimplifying.  You're taking "a" truth in verse 13 and turning it into "the" truth.  What if one day you were to meet someone that knew Jesus Christ Personally in His first coming?  Would it be best for them to remain silent in your presence because, after all, "flesh and blood can't inherit the Kingdom," which is a paraphrase of Jesus' comment "the flesh profits nothing, the Words that I speak unto you are spirit and they are life."??

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

In fairness, verse 13 of Hebrews 11 says "These all died in faith," i.e. the ones that I've just mentioned.  Elijah wasn't mentioned thus far in the chapter.  Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, and the portion of Israel that was more numerous than the sand of the sea and the stars of heaven, which is mentioned in Deuteronomy chapter 1, which predated the coming of Elijah.  In Deuteronomy 1, God's analogies were said to be fulfilled about the sand by the sea and the stars of heaven, so in the 11th verse Moses prayed the thousand fold blessing on them, that they'd outnumber the stars of the heavens and the sand by the sea of a thousand worlds or perhaps universes.  God can produce oxygen for a human body anywhere, and God can remove the need for oxygen at His discretion.  With God, nothing shall be impossible!  Flesh changes in the Presence of God, even without any considerations of a resurrection or immortality.  Moses was lit up like a star after seeing the glory of Christ after he'd screamed at God to be shown God's glory.  They had to cover his face afterwards everytime that he was going to speak with the people.  And though God Personally buried Moses so that his body wouldn't become an idol worshipped or any type of magical whatever, there's nothing in the Scriptures to indicate that God took Elijah in order to bury him.  And definitely not with a UFO as is the case with Elijah having been beamed up.

[reFORMer]

 As proof that only Jesus is immortal some refer to the following Scripture:

1 Timothy 6...
14 ...until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

But, in the phrase, "Who only hath immortality" the word "hath" is S#2192 and it primarily includes the meaning, "to possess as one's own."  If it meant only Jesus is immortal, then why didn't it say, "Who only is immortal?"  Jesus possesses incorruptible immortality as His own and can impart various degrees of it with whomsoever He chooses without them necessarily possessing it, only walking  in it dependent on Him.

It could be compared to "gifts of healings."  Some misunderstand, thinking it must be something you possess.  They say if you have "the gift" why can't you just walk into any hospital and empty it?  Aside from the fact that this has happened, it assumes healings are something you possess as your own.  While "resident" gifts of healing exist, it is common that healing is something the Father does alongside of you, working what is His possession and of yourself you can do nothing.

Another example is The Song of the 144,000.

Revelation 14: 2-3:
2 ...and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Just like being born again (by the Spirit from above) is not something you can will to happen, be indoctrinated into, or evolve into out of something inherent in your nature and the like.  God must do it to you.  So is entry into those things pertaining to immortality, which is what I believe to be the case with the 144,000.  This doesn't mean no one else can sing along as the Spirit possesses them, only that they don't possess the knowledge of it for themselves and it can't be learned.  One must be born in resurrection, a son of God in the material of one's physical body.

(It's so late I'm going to bed and will hopefully later modify this post to list those I believe to not only not have died, but those who have been resurrected.  I lost my first draft of this post by a "fatal error!"  Thorns!)

[martincisneros]

It could be compared to "gifts of healings."  Some misunderstand, thinking it must be something you possess.  They say if you have "the gift" why can't you just walk into any hospital and empty it?  Aside from the fact that this has happened, it assumes healings are something you possess as your own.  While "resident" gifts of healing exist, it is common that healing is something the Father does alongside of you, working what is His possession and of yourself you can do nothing.

This is a gooooood illustration along these lines.  As the Father has life in Himself, so has He given the Son to have life in Himself.  And the Son gives it to whomsoever He will.  Because people have been drowning in the ET/destruction paradigms, they've been blinded to the fact that this can also mean by degrees.  As many at these boards could probably testify similarly, I have eons of eons of life way beyond what I had when I was 14 and embraced the Lordship of Jesus Christ.  Some of that is from grace, mercy, and faith, while other degrees of it are from endurance, patience, wisdom, understanding, sanctification,  additional areas of purification that are beyond "general purification," as well as from my diligent sowing and reaping.  What I mean by beyond "general purification" is "beyond what He expects of absolutely all of us universally as His minimum."  There's life from when you trust God at long last, and there's degrees of life when He can trust you 'cause He knows what you're going to do, as when He finally knew, perhaps in His emotions more than just in His Spirit, what Abraham would do.