What Must I do to be saved

[thetruthprospector]

 I woke up this morning with a confused mind
Since I have been studying a lot of word studies in Greek. I feel like all the questions and details made me loose my sight on the Lord.
Finally the Holy spirit put the Philipian jailor in Acts 16 into my thoughts and I went and read that part in my KJV
"What must I do to be saved?"
"believe on the Lord Jesus"
Pretty simple message, eh?

Can God save all of his creation?
I don't know
Can He make a rock so heavy He cannot lift it
Why would HE DUH!
IF God's creation  is created with free will and God is all powerful then is He limited by the free will of his creation.
I do not know.
1)   If God is all powerful What does that really mean? Can God lie? Can God not be Light? Can God not me Love. 
2)   Jesus came to bring us life and life more abundantly. Can he steal from us. Can He kill us?  Can he destroy us?
3)   I see Satan as created
4)   I see God created Creation with beings  of independent will. Like Adam who chose to disobey. As did Satan and all the fallen Angels
5)   So is God really in control of everyones will . Maybe in the end.  BUT IN THIS LIFE DO WE NEED TO KNOW?
6)   But how are we to live that way?  Do we really judge who is going to be destroyed and who is not? I never really believed in an eternal punishment, but a final cleansing and annihilation. A final death. A final ceasing to exist for darkness and death. So when death is tossed in the Lake it is a final victory. When all evil is annihilated, then we have paradise. But Darkness must be annihilated for a perfect world.  But what about this world we are in NOW?
7)   From what I see looking too far into the future is not our business.  IN my times I have seen those who look to understand the future before God reveals it get in trouble. Rememeber Acts?
a.   Acts 1:6: When Jesus' disciple asked if it was time for Him to restore Israel. ( And I believe we are Israel and the ekklesia and Israel have always been the same. (Qahal) God's holy called people)
b.   Acts 1:7: He responded "it is not for you to know (ginosko, experientially know) the times and the season that God put in HIS OWN power (Exousia= authority)
c.   ACTS 1:8 "BUT"  HE turns their attention around to what they should be looking for
i.   Receiving (lambano) the holy spirit, which was the promise of the Father
ii.   Which they did obey and did receive soon after on the Day of Pentceost
iii.   So that they had the power to be witnesses unto Jesus to all the earth
8)   Then He was taken up (the was the last thing Jesus told His followers) and the angels said "he would come in like manner from heaven" But they also said "why stand ye gazing up into heaven"  they were not supposed to be always looking to the future, they were given an assignment. And the did go to Jerusalem and did receive the holy spirit when it was poured out. And then the rest of Acts is history. ... They were witnesses by the power of the holy spirit.
9)   I woke up this morning and I asked myself. OK How do I get saved? What must I do to be saved? And the holy spirit led me to Acts. The story of the Philipian Jailor came to my mind.
10)   He asked in Acts 16:30 "What must I do to be saved"  a real simple question. He did not ask if it was for an eternal life, or an age long life. Or for a spiritual salvation or a soul salvation or a physical salvation. He was ready to kill himself, He wanted to be save, period.
11)   The answer was simple enough acts 16:31 "BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED"  Not believe unto, not believe about, not believe around but believe UPON.
12)   I have read the letters Galatians and Romans and saw that we do not have even the strength to believe to get saved. But Praise God Jesus did as the Son of God. We were saved by His FAITH when he accomplished the Law right up to His sacrifice. Who could believe like that? But our salvation by Grace rests upon that. UPON  THE LORD JESUS.  And the rest is simple, you will be saved. When today, yes, tomorrow, yes in Eternity yes, but HE did not ask the details, the Jailor was happy to be saved without analyzing it.
13)    If the devil gets saved along with all creation then the the enemy is redeemable. I cannot think that way.  He is my enemy. In this life I am in now and I am not to be concerned with the ages I cannot understand, but I am to be a witness for my Lord so people can be saved. To me that is LOVE.
14)   I do not believe in a eternal punishment. But the idea  of a punishment for a long time is enough to make me want to do my job better here on Earth and witness for Jesus Christ. I don't feel I hate people because they "may" be annihilated. In Contrast I do not want them too be.. But even if they are not or they are it is the same to me. Today is the day of salvation!
15)   No do people go into this lake of fire for ever? I DO NOT KNOW. But just he chance that they may, or that I may have to suffer  scares me.  It makes me want to concentrate on my relation with Jesus through the Comforter, the Holy spirit that HE sent so I can be a witness.
16)   Is God going to save Darkness? If God is love, and hate is the absence of Love. If God is light and darkeness is the absence of light. IF God is truth and lies are the absence of truth. Just as you can only measure temperature by heat not by coldness since it is just the absence of heat. I think God Is not without limits in the sense He cannot lie, cannot really hate. And the spiritual beings starting with Lucifer and his angels are darkeness in that thay rejected the light.  It seems to me they will be annihilated or exist no more when Jesus pours out His Word and His Heat and His light.  Now do all people get saved the reject Grace in the form of the Gospel of God sending His Son to save the world?
17)   John 3;16 God sent his son in to the world to save the world because God is Love. Yet there are those who love darkness instead of the Light. These are those who reject the Light and will go into darkness. The only unforgivable sin as I see it is to Hate Forgiveness. Reject the light.
18)   Now do these people who are to proud to recognize Jesus is Lord. Do they get saved. Not in this Aeon! It is unforgivable  but only until they repent and turn toward the Light
19)   However I think for me, I need to follow the simplicity of Christ and embrace the holy spirit God gave  to me through His Son. He will teach us all things. And the spiritual things are only understood spiritually. Isaiah 35:8 Says "And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein."
SO it is not complicated, it is a relationship with Jesus. It is not language dependent it is dependent on Grace.  We are to be like children to have simple faith to enter the kingdom of God. God has not called many wise men. All I can say is I am overwhelmed with the detailed study of Greek I have embarked on and your scholars have presented things I cannot understand. At least not now.  With all the Scriptural scholars disagreeing.  And yet children can believe in Jesus. Something is wrong to me.
IN any case I know that we are to use are talents wisely until the Lord returns. Intellectually according to our ability. But how able are we to understand spiritual things without the Comforter. The holy spirit?
I am not sure if those around me who reject Jesus and follow Allah or Buddha or the Devil with eventually be saved.
But is that really our business?  I think our business is simply to have a relation with God through the holy spirit. Allow God to guide us into all truth through the revelation of the holy spirit and get busy at least praying and witnessing that those we Love may not experience the age long  suffering of a lake of fire.
I am not so sure it makes a difference to me if I am not sure of the length of time that they will suffer or me for that matter.
I think we need to receive the holy spirit as our paraklete, pray in the spirit, yes speaking in tongues, praying in tongues, building up our most holy faith and see what God has for us to do for Him today in the here and now to bring people to Christ, so we can become witnesses for Jesus and have faith God.
I john 2:27 "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
Handling  the times and seasons is His business and some things will be hidden from us until they are revealed.  Our relation with the Lord depends on the  holy spirit. He will guide and give us the bread, the spiritual food, each day as needed. But we are given the spirit so as to draw others to Christ.  Since worrying about who is right or wrong on the eschatological confusion in the world I have lost my desire to witness. Time to get back to praying in the spirit and trusting in the anointing in me and getting busy being a witness.  I thank God I can speak in tongues. That to me is the seal of my salvation and giving thanks well. And lets pull some out of the fire just in case they don't get saved.

Jude 1:20 "But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,"
Jude 1:21 "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jude 1:22 "And of some have compassion, making a difference:"
Jude 1:23 "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
Jude 1:24 "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,"
Jude 1:25 "To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."

[josh]

 first you number 13 didnt finish

13)    If the de....
I AM GUESSING IF THE DEVIL SOMETHING

OFF THE BAT :)
the correct and familiar answer is
to be convicted of your sins and guilt and repent  and accept the holy spirit
IN A WAY THIS IS MENTIONS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT...

a problem cause my lack of understanding of the mysteries
is that most christians havent renewed the mind sufficiently
[mod cut]
now for that passage in the old testament about being saved..

from the king james translation WITH SOME OF MY COMMENTS IN THE TEXT IN CAPS

Job 33:23  If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, JESUS one among a thousand, <THE HEBREW MIGHT EMAN NOT JUST AMONG A THOUSAND BUT AMONG THOUSAND OR OF ALL THE THOUSANDS to shew unto man his uprightness:
Job 33:24  Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom.
Job 33:25  His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth:
Job 33:26  He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness.
Job 33:27  He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not;
Job 33:28  He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.
Job 33:29  Lo, all these things worketh God oftentimes<AS TO HOW MANY TIMES WHAT THE HEBREW SAYS MIGHT NEED SOME SYMBOLIC SPIN TO MAKE IT MANY TIMES BUT THAT IS WHAT I THINK IT PROBABLY SAYS with man,
Job 33:30  To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.
Job 33:31  Mark well, O Job, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I will speak.

WELL ENUF FOR NOW :)


Josh, no more stuff about reincarnation on the boards please.  Official mod warning.

[ed]

Hi Fred,

God Bless!

3)   I see Satan as created

That was a lot doctrine stacked on top of doctrine.  The ministry that you came from, and most Bible thumping Christian sects tend to make things difficult, and answer the complex questions with simple answers.  The simple answers have been around for a long time and often leave the believer with a nagging feeling that they are missing something.

Colossians 1:16
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

I've found it comforting to simplify with what God shows me rather then doctrinal sure answers.  Each believer tends to get things just a little different.  We all came from different places and have been influenced in different ways.

Colossians 1:16 struck me last week concerning another person who was wrestling with faith issues.  I was extremely blessed when it came to my mind because I did not have an answer prior to that.  Often it seems that it takes time for the perfect answer to come concerning a particular thing.

After reading your post I had no idea how to respond to it.............it took some time.

Regarding satan, the devel, demons, ect there are plenty of doctrinal answers as to who, what, and why.  As for personal experience, I've never met any entity of that kind.  I've engaged in spiritual warfare and believe in it.  Spiritual warfare is for the believer, God does not engage in it because God does not have any that qualify as His enemy.

2 Corinthians 10
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Our job in spiritual warfare is to bring every though captive to the obedience of Christ.  Every high thing exalts itself against the KNOWLEDGE of God.  The war has always been in the mind.  This is not God's war, this is the believers war; God is our strength.

Back to Colossians 1:16.........

For by Christ where all thing created..............that includes everything.  The devil and it's purpose is all under the authorship and dominion of Jesus Christ.  The battle that you are engaging in is all part of you being able to bring all things captive to the obedience of Christ.

Thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Pretty much all inclusive.

I remember Chris Geer talking about "the accomplished work of Jesus Christ".  That is what our salvation is based on.  No other work, belief, power or dominion can keep Christ from obtaining what he paid for in full.  If Jesus Christ wants the whole creation, Jesus Christ shall have the whole creation. 

Good news, Jesus wants it all!

Gotta run.

Ed

[WhiteWings]

1)   If God is all powerful What does that really mean? Can God lie? Can God not be Light? Can God not me Love.

Even God has His limits it seems :Chinscratch:

2)   Jesus came to bring us life and life more abundantly. Can he steal from us. Can He kill us?  Can he destroy us?

He's limited by His personality. Just as you are able to kill a baby, your personality stops you from doing so.

3)   I see Satan as created

Agreed because everything there is, was and will be somehow originates from God.

4)   I see God created Creation with beings  of independent will. Like Adam who chose to disobey. As did Satan and all the fallen Angels

True, but God has a free will too. Guess who wins if God's will clashes with mankind's will.

5)   So is God really in control of everyones will . Maybe in the end.  BUT IN THIS LIFE DO WE NEED TO KNOW?

I think the answer is that we don't truly know when we have free will. Why are you on this forum? Was it really free will? Or did God for example lead you here by for example Google search. That's exactly how I came here....
Prov 16:9 In their hearts humans plan their course, but the LORD establishes their steps.

6)   But how are we to live that way?  Do we really judge who is going to be destroyed and who is not? I never really believed in an eternal punishment, but a final cleansing and annihilation. A final death. A final ceasing to exist for darkness and death. So when death is tossed in the Lake it is a final victory. When all evil is annihilated, then we have paradise. But Darkness must be annihilated for a perfect world.  But what about this world we are in NOW?

You aren't the Supreme judge, so you don't decide the fate of anyone. Let's assume only 10% of all people are worthy to enter heaven. If annihilation is true then 90% of all people are dead. Isn't that a big victory for death? A huge sting? Doesn't it mean God lost the salvation game with 10-90?

13)    If the devil gets saved along with all creation then the the enemy is redeemable. I cannot think that way.  He is my enemy. In this life I am in now and I am not to be concerned with the ages I cannot understand, but I am to be a witness for my Lord so people can be saved. To me that is LOVE.

But what about you, me and every other sinner? Aren't we all 'the enemy' when sinning?

14)   I do not believe in a eternal punishment. But the idea  of a punishment for a long time is enough to make me want to do my job better here on Earth and witness for Jesus Christ.

Sounds like acting out of fear.
John 4:18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

15)   No do people go into this lake of fire for ever? I DO NOT KNOW. But just he chance that they may, or that I may have to suffer  scares me.  It makes me want to concentrate on my relation with Jesus through the Comforter, the Holy spirit that HE sent so I can be a witness.

A lake with literal fire doesn't exist. Neither is it everlasting. See it as a bath. When you are clean you get out.   Click here

16)   Is God going to save Darkness? If God is love, and hate is the absence of Love. If God is light and darkeness is the absence of light. IF God is truth and lies are the absence of truth. Just as you can only measure temperature by heat not by coldness since it is just the absence of heat. I think God Is not without limits in the sense He cannot lie, cannot really hate. And the spiritual beings starting with Lucifer and his angels are darkeness in that thay rejected the light.  It seems to me they will be annihilated or exist no more when Jesus pours out His Word and His Heat and His light.  Now do all people get saved the reject Grace in the form of the Gospel of God sending His Son to save the world?

There are several ways to handle enemies.
a] Torture them for ever. --> Mainstream Christianity.
b] Annihilate them.
c] Make them your friends. Convert them. Proverbs 25:21-22

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:

[Seth]

"do I not destroy an enemy by making him my friend?" - Abraham Lincoln

[Lazarus Short]

"What must I do to be saved?" comes from an imperfect, limited, human understanding of things.  Naturally [a deliberate word choice] lots of folks glommed onto that, thinking they had anything to do with their own salvation.  No, God did it ALL - that no man should boast.  If you believe in the Lord Jesus, God gave that belief to you.  If you have faith, God gave it to you.  If you have hope, God gave you that too.  If you have love, it is a gift from Him.  At some point we must accept that, fall to our knees, and cast our crowns at His feet.  :2c:

[Seth]

What must I do to be saved?

Acts 16
31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34 And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.

Romans 5 says that "how much more having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life." Notice that Paul does not say: how much more having been reconciled shall we be saved by belief. It says, BY HIS LIFE. That is what the whole bit about baptism is about there, in connection with belief.

I do not believe this is talking about John's baptism of water, but about Christ's baptism of Spirit. Not to get into a big debate about water baptism, but I don't think belief alone is what caused the salvation. It was the BAPTISM of the Spirit ("saved by his Life") that brought salvation, through belief.

[micah7:9]

Well the simple answer, without a denominational overlay, BE BORN. :dsunny:

[DanielB]

"Even God has His limits it seems"

"He's limited by His personality. Just as you are able to kill a baby, your personality stops you from doing so."

Do you believe will never= can not WhiteWings? I personally believe that just because God won't do evil does not mean he can't. For example I think he COULD do evil if he wanted to but he will not. I guess they are the same practically or at least very similar so it may just be semantical. I think it is important to understand that what God is able to do is far beyond the comprehension of any human. God can create something out of nothing or preach to the dead. I am starting to think that doing the "impossible" is his hobby or something!  :laughing7: Also I believe God decides what is good or evil and just because something is evil for us does not make it evil for him. I think he has the moral right to do whatever he wants. That is what I believe anyway(I am not trying to push my beliefs on you or anything).

[FreeAtLast]

Saved from what ?

Sin ?

Through Adam all were made sinners and died.
the penalty for Sin was DEATH.

The father counted all under Condemnation of  SO that he might have MERCY upon ALL !!!

Through Yahshua ALL shall live and SHALL BE MADE RIGHTEOUS !!!

Yahshua has destroyed the works of the devil and done away with SIN(Adam's Sin that brought all men under condemnation and Death)

My friends there is a RESURRECTION !!!   ALL shall live  and shall be made Righteous !!!

IT IS DONE Yahshua cried !!!  DEATH has been destroyed---ALL shall live

what must you do to be saved from the penalty of Sin which is DEATH---NOTHING--IT was a GIFT from the Father purchased by The Son !!!

You must still Repent and believe and follow  Yahshua(and this Faith is also a free gift) or face the FIRE that is to come and pay for your own sins if you do not Repent and remain in your sins !!! saved from the Fire if you continue in that Faith--and also they were saved from the wrath at 70 ad when Jerusalem was destroyed !!!

BUT you shall LIVE---you are already SAVED from DEATH !!!   Judgement is next !!! whether you have done good or bad!!!
REPENT and choose life and do good and you shall receive accordingly.
Remain in your sins and do evil and you shall receive accordingly.

BUT know this--that the FIRE is not a pleasant event---you shall Reap what you Sowed!!! HOW long must a one  be in the FIRE--that I know not--but the Father knows ALL things--He knows when the Purpose of the FIRE is complete for his creation!!!

far better to repent and believe and follow the Master and receive good and not be ashamed before him--and hear those awful words of DEPART from me you Evil Doers.

He is Faithful and True--worthy of our trust and praise !!! And He shall receive it one way or the Other !!!  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

I think there is great peace in knowing truth.. Colossian chapter 1 (or is it 2?) talks about knowing, and continuing to know.. something like that.. the words escape me, and I have a lack of time right now..

I wish I could communicate to others how I was struck by further truth 17 years ago when my son asked me two questions.. why was the tree of knowing good and evil in  the garden? (once He endowed thinking ability which includes sooner or later, the ability to make choices, a whole new world, or tree, of possibiliites was formed, but what was His other option? no rational creatures? ever??)

If you were God, how would you make a perfect, eternally un-breakable paradise? What is said to be the best teacher?

My son's second question - Isn't it great we get to be an ant farm? (well, sort of a question! boy do I love to tell him how those questions so totally blessed my christian life -  I did not believe in hell before then either.. nor much of the 'voice' of the churches, though they are still the truth of God, for a large part, in the world. But HIS voice was love.

The gist of what I learned when i prayed for better answers to those questions, was God is Life itself, the life force.. and He is Perfection. So to choose in any teeny tiny way anything in thought, word or deed other than what He chooses is to become imperfect the opposite of Life.

Perfect makes no mistakes. Loses nothing. To not be all powerful would be to not be perfect. Surely God saw all possibilities before creating a thing.. and has done all things (perfectly) in order to bring about the very best of all 'end' results...

This life is simply (imo) His truth proving drama.

Because he endowed thinking ability, thus choice, there is suffering, etc. But He being Life suffers, lives through and experiences it all!! why would He put Himself through all that? perhaps because he's not creating an ant farm but His own family and an eternally un-breakable paradise. Un-breakable for it will be deeply engraved upon every heart, mind and psyche what is life from death(nonlife) which is also good from evil.

All are learning one simply cannot walk away from God/Life.. it cannot be done. But can on,ly ever end in a self destructive puff of smooke and dust and ashes (apocalypse, truth revealing collapse! all un truth can only fall, built on sand..) It's my belief this is the foundation lesson we are learning. God is not done creating us.

A totally LONG day of examination of all things.. all human history etc (it's the same story over and over, and in the life of every single person. The same story. Apocalypse.) The day of judgement of all things as a great day of review... Honey we are going to KNOW, good from evil / Life from death(nonlife). Who in their right mind will then choose nonlife?? to go the way of nonlife? Judgment Day (DOA) will last 500 years (imo) because the (ancient) Spring Holy Days prophesied the 1st advent, therefor the Fall ones prophecy the three major peaks of the long 2nd one.. Surely??
Gotta run!  :hiya:

[thetruthprospector]

Marie Glenn
I like what you said about God Making rational creatures.  I suppose the angels were too and then you had the fall of Lucifer. But I am not sure they are on the same level as us since we are "made in Gods image" which is spirit. HIS SPIRIT. We lost that in the disobediance of Adam and sin. GOd created us so we could love Him back and that took creating "free will" That is the way I see it for now. ALso we gain back this holy sprit when we by free will choose to acknowlegde the work of the second Adam, Christ.  But this thing about spring prophecies and fall prophecies I am curious what did God show you.
Fred

[micah7:9]

From reading I have found there could be many things that one must do to be saved. Just saying. :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

IMHO, the issue of salvation isn't as pat as the orthodox church has always taught.

[jabcat]

What must I do to be saved?

Acts 16
31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34 And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.

Romans 5 says that "how much more having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life." Notice that Paul does not say: how much more having been reconciled shall we be saved by belief.

If you believe in the Lord Jesus, God gave that belief to you.  If you have faith, God gave it to you.  If you have hope, God gave you that too.  If you have love, it is a gift from Him.  At some point we must accept that, fall to our knees, and cast our crowns at His feet.  :2c:

:2thumbs:

I personally believe much of orthodoxy has the first part right - the initial spiritual new birth, being born again/"born from above" by calling on/believing on Jesus.  There is much diversion from there;  some groups believe that's it, others believe in an ongoing process of sanctification, some believe you struggle and hang on by the skin of your teeth and if you work hard enough and pray sincerely enough and don't commit an unconfessed sin a second before you die, you may "make it" - and of course, that most go to "hell"..etc.  Although I personally believe there is a continual process of being saved/delivered/healed ("growing in grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ), and then finally the redemption of the body at  the resurrection, I strongly believe the initial new birth (the receiving of what Jesus did on the cross for our atonement) is not just a decision or "turning over a new leaf", but that's it's a miracle, and comes down to God's Spirit drawing each individual, then Him giving the faith necessary to believe on (acknowledge/trust/adhere to..) Him as Savior.  I believe until/unless that happens, we're still lost in our trespasses and sins.  But every tongue will confess Jesus.

"no man comes to the Father unless the Spirit draw him"

"we're saved by grace through faith, and that not of yourselves.."

"what must I do to be saved?  Believe upon the Lord Jesus, confess with your mouth and you will be saved"

"Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name [my comment - with faith HE gives] he gave the right to become children of God"

[micah7:9]

"Although I personally believe there is a continual process of being saved/delivered/healed ("growing in grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ), and then finally the redemption of the body at  the resurrection, I strongly believe the initial new birth (the receiving of what Jesus did on the cross for our atonement) is not just a decision or "turning over a new leaf", but that's it's a miracle, and comes down to God's Spirit drawing each individual, then Him giving the faith necessary to believe on (acknowledge/trust/adhere to..) Him as Savior.  I believe until/unless that happens, we're still lost in our trespasses and sins - and that's not a popular belief - but I believe it's scriptural." Jabcat

I accept and believe all of what was said, except, "but that's it's a miracle."  I don't believe it's a miracle, it's just how HE works and does it. Now from one's point of view as a human and the shape he/she may be in, it may seem like a miracle, but I just don't see it that way.....imo. But then again it may be a miracle, I just don't see it that way. The fire starts and things get to burning, maybe that's a miracle. Just my thoughts. :2c:

[Seth]

I personally believe much of orthodoxy has the first part right - the initial spiritual new birth, being born again/"born from above" by calling on/believing on Jesus.  There is much diversion from there;  some groups believe that's it, others believe in an ongoing process of sanctification, some believe you struggle and hang on by the skin of your teeth and if you work hard enough and pray sincerely enough and don't commit an unconfessed sin a second before you die, you may "make it" - and of course, that most go to "hell"..etc. 

Yes I agree, that orthodoxy does teach about being born from above and the spiritual gift given by calling upon Christ. The problem that I believe causes alot of confusion with their doctrine and scripture is the object of salvation: hell.

That's why there's all this talk about "making it." Making what? I have had a total paradigm shift regarding salvation. I actually think that salvation can be understood through common sense, not through guessing about what might happen in the afterlife. To me, all you have to do to know you are saved is to look at your life.

Saved from what? If you are caught in a sin you cannot get out of, then that's what you need salvation from. So, if you are addicted to drugs, you aren't saved....from being addicted to drugs. Isn't that obvious? Even if you completely believe in Jesus, if you keep doing drugs, then you still need salvation from that. To me, that's common sense, and I think that is what James is talking about in James 2.

"What does it profit a man who has faith and no works? Can that faith save him?" Would Rahab been saved from the destruction of her city if she believed in God, but failed to put the red rope outside her window? No. She would have been a destroyed believer.

To me, it's not about "making it." It's about, have I been delivered from the sin that once compelled and enslaved me in THIS life, first and foremost.

"no man comes to the Father unless the Spirit draw him"

"we're saved by grace through faith, and that not of yourselves.."

"what must I do to be saved?  Believe upon the Lord Jesus, confess with your mouth and you will be saved"

"Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name [my comment - with faith HE gives] he gave the right to become children of God"

I think the Bible is clear that GRACE is what saves us, not just faith. From my perspective, faith alone is how we receive the Holy Spirit. But that is the beginning of salvation, not the totality of it as Orthodoxy teaches. Salvation is the process by which the Spirit conforms our works to save us from "this untoward generation" as Peter put it.

Titus 2
11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Faith > Grace > Works > Salvation