What is prayer?

[Nancy]

Hi there all,

Strength and courage to you all,

I have been pondering what prayer is.  When people ask for prayer or when i prayer at the end of the day, i wonder if there is a point to it anymore.

Prayer in the greek is 'proseuche' which means toward-well-having. Martin Zender states in his booklet on prayer that it is towards-Gods' well-having.  Do you think this is correct?
If Gods' will is to be done, then why do we prayer for what we want?

Can we ever again pray the prayer of Jabez instead the prayer of Christ (Thy will be done)?
When Apostle Paul told his followers to pray that he will speak boldly in Rome, he knew that he would as God told him so. So why did Paul do that?
Sometimes people who are dying are prayed for and they still die or still stay ill, etc.
What is the deal?

Godbless
Nancy

[claypot]

Yes, prayer is a mystery for sure.

To me, prayer is the spirit breathing.

cp

[rosered]

   good question sis , Nancy 
  good answer cp  :HeartThrob:
  I have always  felt as one prays  to God it is a communion or conversations  in the Spirit
     that interceed for us  , when  we dont know  what to ask the Lord for .

and also to me it is not so much that we pray BUT  that GOD HEARS   :thumbsup:

it is Love that  is the true motivator  that makes us pray for one another  , to me anyways  :icon_flower:  rose

[martincisneros]

All you've got to do is obey the Scriptural rules for prayer.  Not all prayers are created equally and the Bible specifies different types of prayers and different rules of each game for receiving the Blood sworn promised results.

[Taffy]

it is Love that  is the true motivator  that makes us pray for one another  , to me anyways    rose

Hi Rosey :HeartThrob:

Tis always good to see you about. :icon_flower:

As we can DO nothing Lest It be Of HIM,seems to me to be a natural thing to do, a new born babe comes to mind,, the cry speaks a thousand words, and the parents HEAR, its needs are provided for , we LOVE him for HE loved US first. ..as a child grows, a YES to their request can become a NO,...Kinda helps me when I pray for others..when folk dont aways receive what they ask for  :icon_flower:..HIS WILL BE DONE :HeartThrob:

:icon_flower:

[rosered]

  AMEN  Taffy  :HeartThrob:  good to see you up and about brother  :icon_flower:

[Nathan]

I agree that prayer comes in many forms, but I'm not so sure I'd go so far to say some prayers will carry more results than others, based on knowing which prayer is designated for which circumstance.  Scripture says that all prayers are answered before we've completely finished uttering them.  And it also says that prayers aren't always answered due to the state of the person's heart on other matters.  I think we often use prayers as coupons to get what we want without having to pay the full price.  And we use prayers as get out of jail free cards . . we only pray when we're in big trouble.  Or we use prayers as credit cards, buy now, pay later, spiritually speaking.

But for me, prayer is communication with the Father, be it in thought or word.  We use this communication to release and bind in the authority given to us through our intimate relationship with the Son.

[chuckt]

actually there are about 5 greek words translated into pray and prayer.

never the less, we are told to pray without ceasing.  :happy3:

peace
chuckt.

ps.

i loved martin zenders book on prayer.

""GUIDE TO INTELLIGENT PRAYER"""

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The gifts of the Spirit were given in part so we could both pray with the understanding (hearing thru the Spirit what to pray in your native tongue), and without it (tongues).

Barring those being in operation in the believer, or should He not immediately make His will manifest to me, I have always prayed and asked for His perfect will to be done in whatever situation it is I am praying for, setting myself in faith in agreement for that. Blessings....

[Nancy]

Hi ya,
thanks for all your replies.

I especially find it hard to pray for others, for example, a person will ask to have prayers for their healing and i will feel what if God doesn't want a person to be healed at that time, in that way, etc.  I feel that i am not giving that person what they want if i say to God 'Your will be done in this situation'.  The whole point is that the person WANTS to be healed doesn't he?  So when we say to God 'Your will be done' are we really praying?

Godbless
Nancy

[Zeek]

Hi ya,
thanks for all your replies.

I especially find it hard to pray for others, for example, a person will ask to have prayers for their healing and i will feel what if God doesn't want a person to be healed at that time, in that way, etc.  I feel that i am not giving that person what they want if i say to God 'Your will be done in this situation'.  The whole point is that the person WANTS to be healed doesn't he?  So when we say to God 'Your will be done' are we really praying?

Godbless
Nancy

Thats where "praying the END result from the beginning" with a heart of thanks, through faith is important.  "It is finished" is a declaration of calling things as though they are.  His word will not return void. 

some things i've been pondering and practicing.   

[chuckt]

Hi ya,
thanks for all your replies.

I especially find it hard to pray for others, for example, a person will ask to have prayers for their healing and i will feel what if God doesn't want a person to be healed at that time, in that way, etc.  I feel that i am not giving that person what they want if i say to God 'Your will be done in this situation'.  The whole point is that the person WANTS to be healed doesn't he?  So when we say to God 'Your will be done' are we really praying?

Godbless
Nancy

yup, just tell them you will lift them up to the Lord and HIs will be done.

peace
chuckt

[Nathan]

To tag on to Zeek's thought if you don't mind, seeing the end from the beginning is really a huge key to getting prayers answered.  In order to "see" the end, you have to do that in faith, which is responding to the spiritual order of God.  In the spirit, all things are complete, when you enter into the spirit, revelation becomes a staple in your relationship with the Father. 

"When" the Father gives you revelation, with it comes the authority to release that which you see in the spiritual, into the natural.  Often times, people sort of go into a panic mode when they pray over someone because they don't know how to pray.  When it comes to a healing, I wait until I see the completion of the healing, then simply call that out.

When it comes to someone's wants, I pray that God's presence be released into their lives, if that includes their wants, so be it.  I'm not so much a "name-it-claim-it" type a guy though.  If I don't see it, I don't make it up as though I do.  You can't release what isn't there.

[Nancy]

hi,

I get what you're saying Nathan, but say you are a negative person like myself who never sees the glass as half full but half empty. How do you see the end result and then declare it before God?
Funny you talk of name-it-and-claim-it, I was looking at reviews about the book 'The prayer of Jabez' in which i agreed with the reviewers, in that they said it was too much like a formula or a spiritual vending machine. I hate all talk of prayer like that, as if God hasn't got a will at all and that we are the hand that moves the hand of God!!!
Chuckt, I agree with you on Martin Zenders guide to intelligent prayer. It is excellent!

Though when praying for others i ask God to give them strength and courage.

Godbless
Nancy

[Beloved Servant]

Hi Nancy,
I found this to be a good study:  www.kingdombiblestudies.org/lordprayer/LP1.htm

Prayer seems ( to me ) to be an alignment of our Spirit with His.
Lord give me the desires of my heart!
Meaning not that he will give me the things that I desire but rather the things that I desire are what He desires for me!

[martincisneros]

the prayer of Christ is the prayer of Jabez -- have you honestly been that negative to where you can't see that it's the same thing, although the prayer of Christ is on the Jeremiah 33:9 GENEROUS side whereas the prayer of Jabez is skimpy in it's results by comparison??

[Nancy]

Martin,
How can you say the the prayer of Jabez IS the prayer of Christ? Jabez asked God to widen his boundaries and Christ says to God 'Thy will be done'.
How are they the same?

Godbless
Nancy

[martincisneros]

The will of God is always life and that more abundantly per John 10:10, Jeremiah 31:27-28, Jeremiah 33:9, Psalm 23:1, 2Corinthians 8:9, 2Corinthians 9:8, Psalm 112, Joshua 1:8, Isaiah 48:18, Isaiah 54, and many, many other passages.  Deuteronomy 28 lists everything that's the diametric opposite of the prayer of Jabez as being the portion of those that aren't walking by the Written Word of God.  It details the curse of the law.  Galatians 3:13 says Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us, so that the blessing of Abraham (going back to that blessing in Genesis details expansion of borders to the right and left) would come upon the Nations/Gentiles thru Jesus Christ, because as that chapter goes on to explain further, if you belong to Christ Jesus, then you're the children of Abraham. 

The book of Hebrews after detailing all that we have thru Christ Jesus says to be content with such things as you have -- not with such things as you don't have -- it just got thru talking to you indepth about Jesus Christ as the one who brings to pass everything you say, and in the light of a superior Blood, superior priesthood, superior atonement, superior wisdom, etc., it says to be content with those things for He has said He'll never leave us nor forsake us, as He was with Jesus Christ so will He be with us, as He was with St. Paul, so will He be with us, as He was with St. John so will He be with us.  Galatians 4 describes the difference between a Hagar/bondage mentality which doesn't expand, and the New Jerusalem attitude of the redeemed by the Blood of Jesus as the expansion of all things in your life as the Written Word of God expands into your life in all things as that chapter, the 5th, and 6th chapters detail, and as Jeremiah 31:27-28 outline the difference between Old Testament and New Testament PERFECTLY AND BEAUTIFULLY.

Overcoming in this life means the rewards of the overcomer, per 1John, book of Revelation, and lots of other places, and those include the expansion of all things to you, being lead into all truth, being brought into remembrance of all He's told you since before the foundation of the world, and having all that you had with Him before the foundation of the world RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW (with persecutions 'cause most Christians won't like it) and in the world to come Eonian Life, but many who are first will be last, and the last first, depending on who takes Him at His Word and becomes seed sowing minded so that they can feed nations that have already been given to them, and for which we'll each be held accountable for. 

CHRISTIANITY IS EXPANSIONISM, [per Hebrews 11:6,] as Isaiah 9:7, Jeremiah 31:27-28, Daniel 2:44, Daniel 7:22, and many other passages that indicate that of the increase of the government of the saints there shall be no end.  If you're not seeing the increase of the government of the saints, then you're not seeing the Kingdom in the direction you're looking, but anything other than the Kingdom 'cause the Scriptures say that of the increase of our Kingdom there shall be no end -- in our anointings, spiritually, soulishly, physically, financially, socially, and with regards to all things that pertain to our ministries, our Word, life, godliness, family, et. al.  Expansion is the proof of the integrity of the believer according to Mark 4, Luke 8, Proverbs 2:21 and Proverbs 11:3 -- and Psalm 112 and Jeremiah 31:27-28 is the profile of the willing and obedient believer.

[Nathan]

hi,

I get what you're saying Nathan, but say you are a negative person like myself who never sees the glass as half full but half empty. How do you see the end result and then declare it before God?
Funny you talk of name-it-and-claim-it, I was looking at reviews about the book 'The prayer of Jabez' in which i agreed with the reviewers, in that they said it was too much like a formula or a spiritual vending machine. I hate all talk of prayer like that, as if God hasn't got a will at all and that we are the hand that moves the hand of God!!!
Chuckt, I agree with you on Martin Zenders guide to intelligent prayer. It is excellent!

Though when praying for others i ask God to give them strength and courage.

Godbless
Nancy

My biggest enemy is never what the church portrays.  It's not an imp or invisible demon running around like a hungry lion just waiting for me to look the other way so it can jump and devour me.  My worst enemy is my "self".  Getting over my own image of who God is, how God sees me, or what God thinks of me is half the race in itself.  Cross-eyed vision is not something we can obtain within our selves.  You see the end not because that's your personality, but because God reveals it to you.  Wait upon the Lord.  He wants to use your authority to advance his kingdom in you and in others. 

Often times when we pray for a situation or a person, we speak out from emotion and knowledge rather than from the leading of the spirit.  I think we can also overspiritualize things as well.  There is a sovereignty to God's order.  The only way we can experience it, is through exercising the authority in us.  Worry about nothing, pray about everything.  "What if it's not God's will?" 

Think about this, the Israelites rejected God's manna and cried out for flesh.  Was it God's will that the eat flesh and not manna?  Did they get what they want?  Actually, I see the same pattern of God with that as what happened with Egypt.  They had their idols they elevated and God let them go until that which they worshiped became their plague.  The same with the quail.  They wanted it so bad, it caused thousands of them to die because of the greed in their hearts for flesh. 

God gives us whatever we want, but getting what we want isn't always the best thing for us.  And God knows that, but until we experience Truth for ourselves, we'll continue to wander and want. 

The bottom line, if I just lay down all of it.  My frustration on how I should pray.  What I should pray for, what tone I should pray in, just lay it all down and "talk" to God in my own language, ignorance, and level of relationship, and in faith believe that he wants this to happen as bad as I do, and leave the rest up to him, then I can spend more time maturing in him, and less time trying to get him to work for me.