What's your take on Angels? Have they got "Freewill"?

[misszoolander]

Hi guys!

Do angels have freewill? Anyone here believe the "Satan was an angel called Lucifer who fell and took many angels with him" story?

[ded2daworld]

So we're getting back to freewill? Just as Judas (to me) had no freewill in the betrayal, I don't think the angels had free will when they "abandoned their posts". All just part of God's plan for their to be the juxtaposition of good vs. evil and for man to know the difference, When He is all in all, evil will be no more. :2c:

[redhotmagma]

I don't believe satan was lucifer.  I believe adam is, the man that made the nations tremble.  The guardian cherub who covered. The king of babylon :2c:

[ded2daworld]

You don't think Adam was the first man and just the first man? I do.

[redhotmagma]

What do you mean Ded?

[ded2daworld]

I was responding to your statement

" I believe adam is, the man that made the nations tremble.  The guardian cherub who covered. The king of babylon "

[redhotmagma]

Well seeing that there have only ever been 2 men, then I would agree with you.  But he has many names.  The old man, the man of sin, the beast, king of babylon.

[micah7:9]

I believe that if the word "angel" had been translated properly as "messenger in OT and NT, discussion of having a free will would be void. I don't believe the story about a "lucifer." And in my opinion, " I believe adam is, the man that made the nations tremble. " is much closer to a truth. :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

freedom is being conformed to the image of Christ, the ultimate messenger. once sonship is yours, your freedom is to do the things that please the Father of spirits. Both men and angels are spirits and messengers. If any will is free, it is because they have been drawn into a union of purpose and spirit with the God from whom every spirit is breathed.

[sheila]

Amen!

[misszoolander]

Thanks Guys!
helps with the studying I'm currently doing   :friendstu:

I personally lean more towards the Adam story too, but I am in the midst of study so only time will tell!

[redhotmagma]

MissZ, here are 3 word studies that I did that all kind of go together.  Hope it helps

http://tentmaker.org/forum/word-studies/luciferadam/

http://tentmaker.org/forum/book-of-revelation/carnal-nature-and-mark-of-the-beast/msg128913/#msg128913

http://tentmaker.org/forum/word-studies/covering-cast-over-all-people/msg133860/#msg133860

[misszoolander]

You legend !  :thumbsup:

Thanks a heap!

[marie glen]

In occult circles it's said there was first the dragon gods whose offspring was the serpent gods, and that it was the wise serpent gods which seeded the earth, produced mankind and is guiding their evolution. A mean spirited god, they say, usurped the planet or ruler-ship. And it was a serpent benefactor which came and brought liberation and enlightenment (freedom) to Eve in the original earth garden.
- L. Ron Hubbard (founder of Scientology) and Aleister Crowley worked together many(?) years ago, doing rituals to bring wise beings from another dimension through portals to the 'earth plane'. They said they brought through an entity they called Lam. He looked a lot like the big eyed green e.t.'s (extra terrestrials) so popular as an image a few years back, only he was grey, and came first, before the green ones. Myself, I think we have plenty of dark entities active upon planet Earth already! And they don't need any help, nor portals or doorways.
- Is it Jude (or one of the Peters) which says "the angels which left their first place, are in chains waiting judgment" (/results!) "The chains" I figure is because once a being becomes imPerfect, they cannot reverse their course and make their self again perfect, and yes it becomes a pit, or tartarus (an abyss actually out of which who knows what can proceed, namely hitlers and the like for one thing, rev 9:2).
- A few years back I did some research on the roots and forming of the un and found it to be more or less a religious undertaking: http://modernhistoryproject.org/mhp?Article=UNSpirit - "The Spiritual Impulse Behind the United Nations" - Lucis Trust, the Great Invocation, and the ultimate purpose of the U.N. -- by: Ida Urso, 1995-05-13, source: Aquarian Age Community,  Quote: "Since its inception, the United Nations organization has had a "spiritual purpose" well beyond its function as a secular globalist bureaucracy, as this talk given at the Arcane School Conference in honor of its 50th anniversary makes clear. The unfamiliar terms used ("the Great Invocation", "the Plan", "the Hierarchy", the "Tibetan Master", "Triangles of Light", "World Servers", etc.) are all based on the theosophical works of Alice Bailey and the Lucis Trust, which is closely affiliated with the U.N. Follow the links for further information." There's lots of info that can be googled, Alice Bailey, Madame Blavatsky, Lucis Trust and their meditation room at the U.N.. "Lucis Trust is a powerful institution that enjoys "Consultative Status" with the United Nations, which permits it to have a close working relationship with the U.N., including a seat on the weekly sessions, but most importantly, influence with powerful business and national leaders throughout the world... "

[marie glen]

 :2c: smile:    [PART 2 ]I read lots like this, including in Wikipedia, but this site
[ http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/Lucis_Trust.htm ] said it best..

Quote: " World Goodwill is a non-governmental organization (NGO) accredited with the United Nations while its parent, Lucis Trust, enjoys the prestigious "consultative status" afforded those non-governmental organizations on the roster of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC). Increasingly, powerful deep pocket NGO's, which are neither elected nor accountable, are received as the voice of "civil society." Those NGO's, which the United Nations selectively elevates to "consultative status," are called upon by ECOSOC as advisors representative of civil society. Both World Goodwill and Lucis Trust are engaged in Earth Charter advocacy. World Goodwill's spirituality is patently pagan. The following declaration is taken from their promotional material.

"During both the full moon and new moon periods there is there is a similar emphasis on the work of energy distribution in meditation .... we consciously align with the rhythmic pattern of energy flow each month, we become a part of a planetary meditative process carried forward at all levels of consciousness and with great creative potential for anchoring the seeds of the coming the coming civilization and the germ of the new culture."

If World Goodwill so unblushingly advocates neo-pagan meditative practices, its overt promotion of an occult "plan" for the governing of the universe is nothing short of chilling:

"There is an inner government of the planet known under such different names as the spiritual Hierarchy, the society of Illumined Minds, or Christ and his Church, according to various religious traditions. Humanity is never left without spiritual guidance or direction under the Plan... The widespread expectation that we approach the "age of Maitreya," as it is known in the East, when the World Teacher and present head of the spiritual Hierarchy, the Christ, will reappear among humanity to sound the keynote of the new age.... There are millions of mentally alert men and women in all parts of the world who are on rapport with the Plan and work to give it expression. They are people in whom the consciousness of humanity as one interdependent unit is alive and active... These beliefs give a new dimension to spiritual reality .... They provide opportunity for cooperation with the spiritual evolution of humanity... there is no group so likely to ensure that humanity achieves this most difficult goal as the men and women of goodwill .... requiring only courage... to initiate action to prepare for the New World Order."

Alice Bailey, Lucis Trust, Madame Blavatsky Bailey's tutor/teacher.. and many other occult connections to the u,n... Lucis Trust originally was a division of Lucifer Publishing (or vice versa) and company of Alice Bailey active in creating the U.N. meditation room and writing the famous "invocation" embraced by the U.N... and much more..

[marie glen]

Sorry, just one more :smile:

Quotes by Blavatsky"

One of the most hidden secrets involves the so-called fall of Angels. Satan and his rebellious host will thus prove to have become the direct Saviours and Creators of divine man. Thus Satan, once he ceases to be viewed in the superstitious spirit of the church, grows into the grandiose image. It is Satan who is the God of our planet and the only God. Satan (or Lucifer) represents the Centrifugal Energy of the Universe, this ever-living symbol of self-sacrifice for the intellectual independence of humanity. "----Sister H.P. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine Pages 215, 216, 220, 245, 255, 533.


ALICE BAILEY (student of Blavatsky)

Read more: http://www.disclose.tv/forum/hp-blavatsky-alice-bailey-lucius-trust-u-n-t74055.html#ixzz2MiXE529j

[Lazarus Short]

Well stated, Marie.  We Christians, Jews, and Muslims are slated for extermination, but I believe God will step in at the right moment.  BTW, if memory serves, the lobby of the UN building in New York contains a large pagan (Sumerian/Babylonian?) statue.

[ded2daworld]

Marie - you're certainly free to read whatever you like - but why in the world would you choose to read occult stuff? Is there some truth there that you think Father has hidden from you or wants you to know by working through an occultist? Is it a desire to know the future? I can appreciate that. I'd like the powerball numbers for next week but I don't know if I'd take them if they were offered to me with a person that in the old testament would have been put to death, that we are told not to associate with and to pay no attention to. (OT)

[sheila]

Marie, I appreciate your expo'se on the roots of the religious occult

practices   at the UN..especially so..that they are ready to move and

NWO is emerging.

[Lazarus Short]

Yes, Marie, some subjects are best delved into only so far as to see that they are error...I know, been there and done that.

[marie glen]

Marie - you're certainly free to read whatever you like - but why in the world would you choose to read occult stuff? Is there some truth there that you think Father has hidden from you or wants you to know by working through an occultist? Is it a desire to know the future? I can appreciate that. I'd like the powerball numbers for next week but I don't know if I'd take them if they were offered to me with a person that in the old testament would have been put to death, that we are told not to associate with and to pay no attention to. (OT)

hi Ded, you must have misread my post.. I study, 2nd to the Bible, history and also world institutions insofar as they affect history (the overall drama) and also Bible prophecy.. My post was an expose on Lucis Trust closely related to the U.N. and its formation, and branched off from Lucifer Trust, or Publishing.. The idea being - are the fallen angels, Lucifer and 1/3 which fell like lightning, or is it metaphor. Some of the studies (I feel) the Lord has led me to and in, is what so called Lucerferians believe.. It's quite chilling, except of course we know God wins(!) :smile: In that crowd (which btw are involved with the UN, a growing global governance(rev 13:1-10) "Lucifer" is referred to as savior and also as the HS! So is Lucifer real or metaphor merely alive in mankind? (Also to this group, scripture is metaphor.) To me. being so very very active in the world, means fallen angels, hidden forces, spiritual conspiracy, unclean spirits, dark entities, are not metaphor. I believe all this information is important, as the U.N is also a gathering world spirituality which is very much a danger. Even if we know God wins, I strongly believe we should know such a thing, so we can warn others, namely, and mostly, my own grand kids who I feel will have to deal with it far more than we do presently. :smile:

[ded2daworld]

OK - was just curious and feel led by God so that's all that matters. I guess I was concerned mainly because I read a lot of that occult stuff when I was into new age (which is very similar) just kinda the light side of occultism(in appearance.) :Peace2:

[marie glen]

Thanks Ded (and also for your concern:).. I guess what it was, was the occult connection to the U.N. :smile:

[ded2daworld]

Thanks, Marie
If you haven't already seen it, this video about what's really happened in America may blow you away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klwWcp9eiPw

[marie glen]

Very interesting! Thanks! :Chinscratch: I do believe there is more goes on behind the scenes than any of us know and that world dominion is much farther along than we realize. I think of the two super powers of rev ch 13, verses 1-10 as a world body(beast) and verses 11-18 as a specific political office, a head, which actually caused the world power to expire when it didn't, after all, sign on. This office is pinpointed by "fire brought from the sky in the sight of men" which causes them to (re)make the image of the beast/governing power. This two horned, two office, office (of man) breathes life into the image of the governing power.. will breathe power and authority into it (now, or then, that is, openly powerful and with much authority, now openly) verse 15..  :2c: