Tentmaker Forum

reconciled? annihilated?

I can't help but think likely ultimately reconciled, because of Col 1:20 "and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven" and Eph 1:10 "in regard to the dispensation of the fullness of the times, to bring into one the whole in the Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth -- in him;"

It's interesting to me that the LOF "was created for the devil and his angels", so to me, that means a more stringent reconciling, as it's my belief most if not all of humanity (which died thus will rise "still in their sins"/arriving/rising DOA, so to speak, at the 2nd resurrection) will be reconciled during judgement 'day'.
:2c: :smile:

I think much of mankind will be reconciled on judgement day too, but since Jesus says, "depart from me into the fire prepared for the devil and His angels"..... I think a more signifigant percentage of people will experience a measure of kolassis post GWT, or He wouldnt have used that example- which He does in several places.

I think their are a lot of evil, predatory, hard case adversaries in this world. I think that the fire Jesus speaks of has to do with being dragged into the light from the hiding places within, and that hidden darkness being consumed by the light of His face and the fire in His eyes, until the knee bows, the tongue confesses, the heart changes.

Sort of like an intense family intervention :o)


"Know you not that you will judge angels?"

"Know you not that the saints will judge the world?"

"I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire. 10"A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened....


Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.Revelation 20:11,12

For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.Romans 2

The highlighted statement in Romans 2:14 is to me one of the most profound statements in scripture. Many will bow the knee and rejoice when they see Him, and recognize Him as the source of the instinct towards righteousness that caused them to live by something other than mere personal survival and gain. thousands of millions who never heard the law, or the gospel, will be judged in this light, in my opinion.

I think Satan's destiny is to be converted and become a heavenly shoe shine boy ;o)

Quote from: eaglesway on November 12, 2015, 06:28:37 PM
I think much of mankind will be reconciled on judgement day too, but since Jesus says, "depart from me into the fire prepared for the devil and His angels"..... I think a more signifigant percentage of people will experience a measure of kolassis post GWT, or He wouldnt have used that example- which He does in several places.

:Chinscratch: you may be right..

Quote from: eaglesway on November 12, 2015, 06:28:37 PM
I think their are a lot of evil, predatory, hard case adversaries in this world. I think that the fire Jesus speaks of has to do with being dragged into the light from the hiding places within, and that hidden darkness being consumed by the light of His face and the fire in His eyes, until the knee bows, the tongue confesses, the heart changes.

Sort of like an intense family intervention :o)


"Know you not that you will judge angels?"

"Know you not that the saints will judge the world?"

"I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire. 10"A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened....


Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.Revelation 20:11,12

For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.Romans 2

The highlighted statement in Romans 2:14 is to me one of the most profound statements in scripture. Many will bow the knee and rejoice when they see Him, and recognize Him as the source of the instinct towards righteousness that caused them to live by something other than mere personal survival and gain. thousands of millions who never heard the law, or the gospel, will be judged in this light, in my opinion.

   :banana: :banana: Wow, I never saw it like that before, (the?) many bowing the knee.. :cloud9:

Quote from: eaglesway on November 12, 2015, 06:28:37 PM
I think Satan's destiny is to be converted and become a heavenly shoe shine boy ;o)

Let us hope! For a while at least! ..reminds me of a verse i was reading today from Jn 14, interlinear "I go to prepare a position for you.."

Quote from: eaglesway on November 12, 2015, 06:28:37 PM
I think much of mankind will be reconciled on judgement day too, but since Jesus says, "depart from me into the fire prepared for the devil and His angels"..... I think a more signifigant percentage of people will experience a measure of kolassis post GWT, or He wouldnt have used that example- which He does in several places.

I think their are a lot of evil, predatory, hard case adversaries in this world. I think that the fire Jesus speaks of has to do with being dragged into the light from the hiding places within, and that hidden darkness being consumed by the light of His face and the fire in His eyes, until the knee bows, the tongue confesses, the heart changes.

Sort of like an intense family intervention :o)


"Know you not that you will judge angels?"

"Know you not that the saints will judge the world?"

"I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire. 10"A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened....


Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.Revelation 20:11,12

For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.Romans 2

The highlighted statement in Romans 2:14 is to me one of the most profound statements in scripture. Many will bow the knee and rejoice when they see Him, and recognize Him as the source of the instinct towards righteousness that caused them to live by something other than mere personal survival and gain. thousands of millions who never heard the law, or the gospel, will be judged in this light, in my opinion.

I think Satan's destiny is to be converted and become a heavenly shoe shine boy ;o)

:iagree:

I'm not sure but I think satan will become a simple angel again who has to work much and not get much joy and peace. He was so evil he can't just simply be forgiven and made happy. He won't have to burn forever in hell, that would only make us guilty because of the pain. But neither can he simply be acquitted and be a happy angel. I think there are punishments for sins like murder and violent perversions. Something like work camps or so. And of course they are all brought to shame and regret. I guess in a thousand years or so the satan angel can walk free again. But there has to be a level of punishment for his sins. Eternal suffering is way too much but when it's eternal shame then I am satisfied.

 Isaaih 26;10,11   Let favour be showed to the wicked,yet he will not learn righteousness; in the land of uprightness will he deal

  unjustly and will not behold the majesty of the Lord.   Not one is lost but the son of perdition..in order that the scriptures be fulfilled

   Lord,when thy hand is lifted up they shall not see. But they shall see,and be ashamed for their envy at the people.

  Yes, the fire of thy enemies shall devour them.[but because of His great love..ye sons of men are not consumed]

  note Judas as representing the son of perdition. Judas was not satan..but satan planted in his heart to betray..and entered him.

   the only one lost is satan.

  satan was very envious of the dominion God give Adam and Eve...was a murderer and thief from the beginning.  His jealousy

and murdering of all in Adam shall result in that fire of jealousy totally consuming him.

   God is love..and any that have life are preserved.....but satan is nothing but an artificial intelligence form/a negative contrast

tool used of God.

  do you know not that ye shall JUDGE/DISCERN ANGELS/MESSENGER'S.

   Let not any when tempted say 'I am tempted of God'

  perdition;complete AND UNREPARABLE LOSS AND RUIN

    I know not many agree with me on this perspective




   

Quote from: anti_nietzsche on November 17, 2015, 04:28:41 PM
I'm not sure but I think satan will become a simple angel again who has to work much and not get much joy and peace. He was so evil he can't just simply be forgiven and made happy. He won't have to burn forever in hell, that would only make us guilty because of the pain. But neither can he simply be acquitted and be a happy angel. I think there are punishments for sins like murder and violent perversions. Something like work camps or so. And of course they are all brought to shame and regret. I guess in a thousand years or so the satan angel can walk free again. But there has to be a level of punishment for his sins. Eternal suffering is way too much but when it's eternal shame then I am satisfied.

How can be Satan be judged for something he was created to do? Sin means missing the mark and Satan's job is to be am adversary. In fact, I don't see anywhere in the Bible that says Satan has sinned. He is liar for sure but a sinner? Not too sure about that. I am not sure how he will be transformed but God has a habit of changing peoe identity like how he changes people name. I guess he will no longer be called Satan because God says so.

Quote from: Aerex on November 17, 2015, 06:40:11 PM

Quote from: anti_nietzsche on November 17, 2015, 04:28:41 PM
I'm not sure but I think satan will become a simple angel again who has to work much and not get much joy and peace. He was so evil he can't just simply be forgiven and made happy. He won't have to burn forever in hell, that would only make us guilty because of the pain. But neither can he simply be acquitted and be a happy angel. I think there are punishments for sins like murder and violent perversions. Something like work camps or so. And of course they are all brought to shame and regret. I guess in a thousand years or so the satan angel can walk free again. But there has to be a level of punishment for his sins. Eternal suffering is way too much but when it's eternal shame then I am satisfied.

How can be Satan be judged for something he was created to do? Sin means missing the mark and Satan's job is to be an adversary. In fact, I don't see anywhere in the Bible that says Satan has sinned. He is liar for sure but a sinner? Not too sure about that. I am not sure how he will be transformed but God has a habit of changing peoe identity like how he changes people name. I guess he will no longer be called Satan because God says so.

 
   For me , satan  meaning adversary , is the god of this world and is in the fire  , this world is on fire  [ Jesus come to  set the world on fire ] Luke 12

    satan is used  for judgement   and destruction of the flesh   so the spirit in  mankind  will be saved in the Day of the Lord

  Paul was exercising the power of the HOLY SPIRIT    to remit [hold accountable   ]  and retain    restrain  hold back from  [forgive] , to   keep  safe  in the power of God or   turn one over to satan and let go , walk in the  broad path of  destruction   John 20 Jesus Appears to the Disciples students at Jesus  feet learning  righteousness    in the earth   by  being taught of Him and hearing His Voice ..

I just believe we are doing such things right now   

  Paul was   holding them under the Law    where satan  can and does accuse   before God night and day      , the Story of Job comes to mind  of the old testament

...22And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23"If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."Strong's G2902 - krateō
κρατέω
Transliteration
krateō
Pronunciation
krä-te'-ō (Key)

Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
From κράτος (G2904)
TDNT Reference
3:910,466
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage
to have power, be powerful

to be chief, be master of, to rule

to get possession of

to become master of, to obtain

to take hold of

to take hold of, take, seize

to lay hands on one in order to get him into one's power

to hold

to hold in the hand

to hold fast, i.e. not discard or let go

to keep carefully and faithfully

to continue to hold, to retain

of death continuing to hold one

to hold in check, restrain



1Corn 5  * Immorality Rebuked
...4In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,

5I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh,

so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?...


    Matt 25 The Sheep and the Goats
...40"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' 41"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;...


   For me  this is all going on NOW   ...2Cor  4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

satan   scriptures Peter 5:8 ESV

Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

1 John 3:8 ESV

Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

2 Corinthians 11:14 ESV

And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

John 8:44 ESV    

You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Revelation 12:9 ESV

And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

2 Corinthians 11:3 ESV

But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

Romans 16:20 ESV / 128 helpful votes   

The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

James 4:7 ESV

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

John 10:10 ESV

The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.

Ephesians 4:27 ESV

And give no opportunity to the devil.

Revelation 12:9-12 ESV
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.

And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!"

Ephesians 6:11 ESV

Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.

2 Corinthians 4:4 ESV

In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Ephesians 6:12 ESV / 72 helpful votes   

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

Matthew 16:23 ESV
But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."

1 John 5:19 ESV
We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Job 1:7 ESV    

The Lord said to Satan, "From where have you come?" Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it."

Luke 10:18 ESV
And he said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Hebrews 2:14 ESV   

Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

Ephesians 6:11-16 ESV

Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. ...

John 12:31 ESV / 43 helpful votes   

Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.

Job 1:6-12 ESV

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. The Lord said to Satan, "From where have you come?" Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it." And the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?" Then Satan answered the Lord and said, "Does Job fear God for no reason? Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. ...

Isaiah 14:12-15 ESV   

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.' But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.

1 Chronicles 21:1 ESV / 37 helpful votes   

Then Satan stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.

Revelation 20:10 ESV    

And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Colossians 1:13 ESV

He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,

John 14:30 ESV

I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me,

1 John 3:10 ESV

By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

Ephesians 2:2 ESV    

In which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—

John 13:27 ESV

Then after he had taken the morsel, Satan entered into him. Jesus said to him, "What you are going to do, do quickly."

Matthew 12:29 ESV
Or how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 ESV

The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,

Luke 22:31 ESV   

"Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat,

Revelation 20:2 ESV

And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,

Matthew 13:19 ESV / 26 helpful votes   

When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.

Acts 26:18 ESV

To open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

Acts 13:10 ESV

And said, "You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord?

1 Thessalonians 2:18 ESV
Because we wanted to come to you—I, Paul, again and again—but Satan hindered us.

Luke 11:18 ESV
And if Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul.

Luke 4:1-13 ESV
And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry. The devil said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread." And Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone.'" And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, ...

Job 2:3-7 ESV   

And the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason." Then Satan answered the Lord and said, "Skin for skin! All that a man has he will give for his life. But stretch out your hand and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face." And the Lord said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life." So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and struck Job with loathsome sores from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.

Revelation 20:7-10 ESV   

And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

1 Timothy 1:20 ESV
Among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.



Genesis 3:5 ESV

For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

John 16:11 ESV

Concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

2 Timothy 2:26 ESV

And they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Matthew 25:41 ESV

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 2:9 ESV

"'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Ezekiel 28:12-19 ESV

"Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord God: "You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you. In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. ...

  this creature/cherub  was subject to vanity

Job 1:6 ESV

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.

Revelation 20:1-3 ESV

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

Revelation 9:11 ESV    

They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.

Jude 1:6-9 ESV

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones. But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you."

2 Corinthians 2:11 ESV

So that we would not be outwitted by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his designs.

Luke 13:16 ESV

And ought not this woman, a daughter of Abraham whom Satan bound for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath day?"

Luke 10:19 ESV

Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you.

Revelation 2:10 ESV / 18 helpful votes   

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

1 Thessalonians 3:5 ESV / 18 helpful votes   

For this reason, when I could bear it no longer, I sent to learn about your faith, for fear that somehow the tempter had tempted you and our labor would be in vain.

2 Corinthians 11:15 ESV   

So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

John 13:2 ESV

During supper, when the devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him,

Matthew 13:38 ESV

The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,

Zechariah 3:1-2 ESV    

Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. And the Lord said to Satan, "The Lord rebuke you, O Satan! The Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is not this a brand plucked from the fire?"

Revelation 12:3 ESV    

And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems.

Revelation 3:9 ESV / 17 helpful votes   

Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet and they will learn that I have loved you.

1 Corinthians 7:5 ESV

Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Matthew 12:24 ESV

But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons."

Matthew 13:39 ESV

And the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels.

Genesis 3:15 ESV   

I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

Matthew 4:1-11 ESV

Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. And the tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread." But he answered, "It is written, "'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.'" Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple ...

Jude 1:9 ESV   

But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you."

1 Timothy 5:15 ESV

For some have already strayed after Satan. :sigh:

Matthew 4:1 ESV / 14 helpful votes   

Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Luke 8:12    

The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

Luke 4:10-11 ESV

For it is written, "'He will command his angels concerning you, to guard you,' and "'On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.'"

Luke 11:15 ESV / 12 helpful votes   

But some of them said, "He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the prince of demons,"

Mark 4:15 ESV   

And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them.

Mark 3:22-26 ESV    

And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, "He is possessed by Beelzebul," and "by the prince of demons he casts out the demons." And he called them to him and said to them in parables, "How can Satan cast out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end.

Matthew 4:3

And the tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread."

Revelation 2:24

But to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not learned what some call the deep things of Satan, to you I say, I do not lay on you any other burden.

Revelation 1:1-20 ESV    

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near. John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood ...

James 2:19 ESV

You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Matthew 12:43 ESV

"When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, but finds none.

Zechariah 3:2 ESV / 11 helpful votes   

And the Lord said to Satan, "The Lord rebuke you, O Satan! The Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is not this a brand plucked from the fire?"

Zechariah 3:1 ESV

Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.

Ezekiel 28:11-19 ESV

Moreover, the word of the Lord came to me: "Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord God: "You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you. ...

Genesis 3:1 ESV

Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God actually say, 'You shall not eat of any tree in the garden'?"

Revelation 20:7 ESV
And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison

Revelation 2:13 ESV   

"'I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. Yet you hold fast my name, and you did not deny my faith even in the days of Antipas my faithful witness, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

2 Peter 2:4 ESV / 10 helpful votes   

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

2 Timothy 3:3 ESV

Heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,

1 Timothy 3:7 ESV

Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

2 Corinthians 12:7 ESV   

So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.

  as long as the world is  and the god of this world is  , it continues as it was , nothing   new under the Sun , but  in the SON    all things are made new , being born from above   and comes to us   by God whom is love and we  Love HIM  and all  because  He first loved us and gave Himself for us  :HeartThrob:

 

God will rebuke satan himself....He knows the spirit of man is willing..but his flesh is weak...and when we fall..we shall be helpen with a little

  help.  The mind of satan..to tempt,rob lie unto man to lead him to destruction and death will be annhilated. It is only appointed

  unto men to die once...then the resurrection. Man dies once under the law because of disobedience...then Christ the resurrection

   saves and snatches from the fire all men.

   only satan and his demons are appointed to the secound death...their spirit is not saved.

    those of the first resurrection[head [Christ]and not the tail] shall suffer no harm of the LOF....that is not so for satan and the demons

  they will suffer loss...for they are of the tail[false prophets] and not the head.  the dragon took one third of the angels from

  heaven with his tail[false prophet]  all that is of the unseen realm[spirit realm] is manifested openly in the seen realm.

   HE[JESUS CHRIST] has and will deliver us and save us from the wicked one...and his end.

   I WILL HAVE MERCY UPON WHOM I WILL HAVE MERCY.

    He will show everyone what the adversary really is. Your hearts will not be troubled...thinking that God is torturing living creations

      when a woman has her monthly...and throws a filthy rag in the trash...does she grieve...'o' my baby!'?

    when a woman gives birth...through the water and the blood..delivers and she washes and swaddles the child..does she then

take the afterbirth and swaddle it?the secound resurrection/delivery..is it not buried[abyssed] or burned in the fire? is it not

   twice dead[having no life in itself ..just appearing as living tissue because of living child?


   now the Prince of this world would convince you to eat it..or use it for a cream/ointment to make you beautiful. But...the spirit of

disobedience rebellion...or what we call sin...has served it's purpose and come to it's end.

   

what do you guys discern the difference as between a bruised heel and a crushed head.?

A bruised heel hurts for a space and hobbles for a bit.

A crushed head puts and end to all activity.

Quote from: Aerex on November 17, 2015, 06:40:11 PM

How can be Satan be judged for something he was created to do? Sin means missing the mark and Satan's job is to be am adversary. In fact, I don't see anywhere in the Bible that says Satan has sinned. He is liar for sure but a sinner? Not too sure about that. I am not sure how he will be transformed but God has a habit of changing peoe identity like how he changes people name. I guess he will no longer be called Satan because God says so.

One day God asked me a question.. not an audible voice, but it came at the end of some interesting info.. To borrow someone else's words "a download from Him"

The question was "why did YHWH wait SO very long, and only create the universe and man and woman, not only after the first bound to occur rebel thought occurred, but after it had matured into outright rebellion and sedition/trickery? Didn't He know what would happen?" ( :laughing7: :faint: of course He did!) The answer came to mind right away "so we would all take this unavoidable journey and lesson all together, otherwise one would wander away now, another later, and another later, taking virtually 'for ever'."

Of course all that could have been avoided, I would think, had He never endowed rationality to any creature.

"Missing the mark" to me equals imperfection... It's my belief God is both life (itself) and perfection.

Quote from: sheila on November 18, 2015, 12:13:18 AM
what do you guys discern the difference as between a bruised heel and a crushed head.?

    :Chinscratch: Very interesting!!

Quote from: eaglesway on November 26, 2015, 04:29:14 AM
A bruised heel hurts for a space and hobbles for a bit.

A crushed head puts and end to all activity.

    :thumbsup:

To me trumpets represents the prophetic word. God calls.

Day of atonement. God purges.

Feast of tabernacles. God manifests.

Thats not meant to be a contradiction of anytimeline type stuff.... Just another persective. I tend to see the temple and the feasts as a pattern for the body moving into fulness.

That God give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of God that you may know what is the hope of your calling, the riches of His inheritance in the saints and the surpassing greatness of His power towards us who believe."

"That you may kno the lenght, the depth and the breath of the love of Christ and b filled up to all the fulness of God."

I would think Satan will be transformed into newness, as the rest of us.

The only other scenario I can possibly fathom is that the struggle for him might be so intense, that he will chose oblivion, rather than succumb to God's will.

But, I really don't think so. And I hope not, even more.

As my Christian comedian friend Pat says, when doing her shtick about the Nativity Scene at Christmas and her son's insistence on 'inviting' some unusual guests to stay at the manger, with the Holy Family, 'everyone is welcome in the Kingdom of God'.

D.                         

I'll just toss this out here not that I expect many to agree but as food for thought. Angel is a word for messenger and I see Satan as nothing more than the carnal mind. Why we see all the evil in the world is just that depraved fleshly mind folks listen to. When people realize that they can no longer claim "The Devil Made Me Do It" so they must be accountable for their thoughts and actions. The Carnal Mind (Satan) and His Angels (Thoughts contrary to Love) go into the Lake of Fire and the evil thoughts or angels are burnt up by the pure truth of God's Love. The Carnal Mind (Satan) is transformed into a Christlike Mind.

I see this just like the War In Heaven in the Book of Revelation. Michael (the mind of God) and his angels (thoughts) fought against the Dragon (the carnal mind) and his angels (thoughts). The Earth that opens it's mouth and helps the woman (soul) is your own mouth declaring the truth of who you are and your position In Christ.

The "Every Knee Shall Bow" I see as the unrighteous thoughts of man not actual physical knees. Paul says to gird up the loins of your mind so we know out physical reproductive organs are not in our mind but our reproductive thoughts are. I see those thoughts are the knees that bow. I was raised as a Catholic kid and as Catholics we did the knee bowing thing quite often in church and it didn't make me any more god like. I know-I know bending the knee is a form of reverence or submission so what does God want us to do but to submit to His Thoughts and His Ways. His pleasure is for us to be obedient mature children walking in Love. No more war-hate-or anything contrary to His Will. Peace on Earth and Goodwill Toward (ALL) Men.

That's my two cents but if you really think on this you will have great peace of mind and that devil will be dealt a severe blow.
Not conventional thinking and NOT NEW AGE EITHER but I must admit they are close to the truth just need Jesus at the Center.

IMO, if the devil is the devil, as Jesus and Paul describe him, to think that he is the carnal mind deals him no blow....as he prefers to be in the darkness, and not believed in, being as that he is the father of lies, author of confusion and the god of this world.

Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm....Eph 6

Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world. 1 Peter 5

"And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." (Luke 10:18)

I do agree that the carnal mind works like the devil. It is the same principle at work in the "sons of disobedience"... and it is the source of his expression through man, the door of access being thru the "lusts of the flesh, the pride of life and the pleasures of the mind"

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Cor 4

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Eph 2:2


Throughout the scripture from Job to revelation the adversary is portrayed as an entity, and if so large a body of reference in the scripture is symbolic or allegorical then the book is(to me) no more than fables and metaphors and therefore doctrine is meaningless. If the apostles and Jesus were so far in the dark as to who the adversary is then why place any weight on who they think God is?

When Jesus dealt with the madman of the Gadarenes He was addressing the "hosts of wickedness"(our name is Legion for we are many) that had taken up residence within the man, who, after He had cast them out, sat at His feet whole and in his right mind. The people from the town were so perplexed and astounded by this they asked Jesus to go somewhere else- it turned there belief systems upside down.

Having dealt with demons and the possessed and oppressed(no one should take my word for that- but it is my testimony and I affirm it without reserve)- I believe that the man in whom Legion reisided and those beings that went into the pigs were not "thoughts and attitudes", but real spiritual entities with identity and ego. I just dont see Paul speaking to us in allegories about this when in all other things he speaks directly what is in his mind from his actual perspectve on it. :2c:

 :iagree:   whole-heartedly. In fact...praying down one of these powers and principalities  since Thursday.

 :dsunny:
It's nice to be able to share on this forum and each give their opinions and reasons for their thoughts in a nice civil manner. It surely isn't like what is found on the really religious boards. I enjoy you all and like to read others opinions since none of us have all the answers. :thumbsup:

Regardless I have found the carnal mind to be my biggest adversary. One other thought I'd like to toss out is Jesus explaining the parable of the sower mentions a type of individual that when the Word is sown Immediately cometh Satan to steal that Word that was sown. We have been taught that satan is an entity and not omnipresent nor all knowing and can only be in one place at a time. That is what I've been taught in most fundamental churches and Full Gospel and Word of Faith type churches. That being said the Word is sown all around the globe somewhere 24 hours a day. That would have to make Satan either extremely fast or omnipresent. Just my opinion but "His Demons" spoken of are not Satan that is another reason for why I believe the Carnal Mind to be the actual adversary as it is always present with the individual that hears the sown Word.  :eek:

oh..but ...'we are many'

  there are offspring of viper's[the original serpent]..and they do the will of their father.  Lord you sowed good seed in your field,

  from whence came the tares?  an enemy hath done it in the night.

      ...and they saw that the daughter's of man were beautiful..and they took them for wives,whomsoever they wanted.

       Perhaps,God may 'turn up the volume' and you hear them..or let you see them...sometime in the future.

   beauty and the beast[carnal mind]

Quote from: eaglesway on November 28, 2015, 08:36:51 PM
IMO, if the devil is the devil, as Jesus and Paul describe him, to think that he is the carnal mind deals him no blow....as he prefers to be in the darkness, and not believed in, being as that he is the father of lies, author of confusion and the god of this world.

Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm....Eph 6

Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world. 1 Peter 5

"And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." (Luke 10:18)

I do agree that the carnal mind works like the devil. It is the same principle at work in the "sons of disobedience"... and it is the source of his expression through man, the door of access being thru the "lusts of the flesh, the pride of life and the pleasures of the mind"

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Cor 4

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Eph 2:2


Throughout the scripture from Job to revelation the adversary is portrayed as an entity, and if so large a body of reference in the scripture is symbolic or allegorical then the book is(to me) no more than fables and metaphors and therefore doctrine is meaningless. If the apostles and Jesus were so far in the dark as to who the adversary is then why place any weight on who they think God is?

When Jesus dealt with the madman of the Gadarenes He was addressing the "hosts of wickedness"(our name is Legion for we are many) that had taken up residence within the man, who, after He had cast them out, sat at His feet whole and in his right mind. The people from the town were so perplexed and astounded by this they asked Jesus to go somewhere else- it turned there belief systems upside down.

Having dealt with demons and the possessed and oppressed(no one should take my word for that- but it is my testimony and I affirm it without reserve)- I believe that the man in whom Legion reisided and those beings that went into the pigs were not "thoughts and attitudes", but real spiritual entities with identity and ego. I just dont see Paul speaking to us in allegories about this when in all other things he speaks directly what is in his mind from his actual perspectve on it. :2c:

"I do agree that the carnal mind works like the devil."

Rather, imo,  :2c: the devil works with the carnal mind and the carnal mind works with the devil.
Devil diabolos ..traducer; false accuser that means imo, there is dialogue.

Rev 2:11  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;

I understand the carnal mind statements. Some validity in certain respects and yet adversary as an entity/ being in Gen 3 since Eve in innocence at the time, no carnal mind only innocence. Sry for brevity, posting from phone.  Even so, the spiritual mind is life and peace, and I also echo the sentiments of this as a good place for mature, respectful discussion. Blessings.

Add: forgot to mention also that yes if one has been delivered of an evil spirit it becomes readily evident that the enemy is an entity. I don't believe that point is necessarily being contended enimtirely, just the idea 'holy moly those things are real?' comes immediately to one's attention

  :thumbsup:   Good stuff  guys
  :iagree:

  Trying to explain   the unexplainable   
  We walk in the Spirit   and walk by faith , not by sight .

    The  account of Mark   in the Bible    to me is where many of the extremest     in the religious circles   become way to literal  in their thinking ..

Just my opinion     , but   I do believe the Word of God comes  perverted  or corrupted   when the carnal mind /death  trap  and its rider   exercises ''power'' .

I was thinking of the mind of Christ   and what   is in that ''power of purpose ''   and it is to saves men's lives not  destroy them  ....  I have come to save  lives not destroy them
and come to destroy the works of the devil ....    accuser . liar   murderer      etc.  works of darkness .
Luke 19:10
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost."  luke 9   56 .

  we have the mind of Christ    1Cor 2 Wisdom from the Spirit of God
...15But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.


THE   power   of   Gods grace   working though the Body of Christ    with ability      to  forgive  sins !

  wow  :HeartThrob:

tares are sown in the night[darkness] when we sleep.  it is much easier to get us to agree with satan when we are asleep or unaware

    thus..'stay awake!  but all the virgins slept..and some took along extra oil...trimmed their lamps[cutback the raggs of the wick[ed]]

   so that they have brighter light.

   SOS    I slept but my heart was awake....some sleep a lot 'lighter' then others.....some require heavy shaking to rouse them..and

   are like trying to wake the dead!

Yes! Sheila I see that same thing about people sleeping. I was a real heavy sleeper and it took lots of shaking in my life for
me to wake up. Even when I woke up I was still pretty much asleep for many spiritual years. Legalism is a very powerful sleeping pill and too much can kill just like a bad drug overdose. The Holy spirit is so awesome he knows just how much it takes to clear out the grogginess in our minds. He's better than two cups of coffee in the morning. :thumbsup:

When you mentioned about waking up the dead I really have to agree. The dead don't like being disturbed very much but our words the Holy Spirit has deposited in our hearts will be their alarm clock. One thing that is neat is the Truth Never Sleeps so when those words touch their hearts those same words will follow them like a hunting dog. It's like the alarm clock doesn't have a snooze button on it. :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

 :thumbsup:

QuoteRather, imo,  :2c: the devil works with the carnal mind and the carnal mind works with the devil.
Devil diabolos ..traducer; false accuser that means imo, there is dialogue.

I agree

Watch and Pray, for the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.......

Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh

Love covers a multitude of sins

Forgive and you shall be forgiven

Set your mind on things above where Christ is seated at the right hand of God

Rejoice in the Lord always and again I say rejoice!


John's prescription for overcoming the evil one ;o)

 :iagree: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :iagree:

 :cloud9: If demons are real and I know from personal experience that they are, then I have no reason to doubt that Satan is a real entity as well.

My daughter has been pressing in to walk with Him for a few years now, after a 10 year wandering in the land of Nod  :laughing7:, and He speaks to her as to the young person (27) that she is.

She asked Him why He put us through all this mess here, why we couldn't have just stayed with Him (one with Him from the foundation). Instantly, He showed her herself, happily sitting on a cloud, and unexpectedly then this giant foot booted her off of it.

He then told her that He wanted us to learn down here to love Him and be obedient with a CHOICE, because He didn't want another Satan trying to steal all His stuff. Roflol.....and He said it, just like that. Blessings....

If Satan were carnal mind, that would certainly help answer the question.  But one of the challenges with Satan being 'carnal mind' is the Book of Job.  For example, here is Job 1:6, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them." 

Is it possible for 'carnal mind' to travel with the Sons of God right up to the LORD?

I don't think the 'carnal mind' theory can be ruled out though per se, and at the very least it's an intriguing perspective for brainstorming.  I especially like how it invites men to take personal accountability for their own brains.  When I see a news report of a violent criminal saying 'Satan made me do it' -- that sort of thing really boils my temper.

In Revelation, Satan is tormented for a finite time -- literally a "world/age worlds/ages", which is translated "an age of worlds" or "a world of ages".  Ages and worlds are by definition finite in space and time.  The literal text of the bible could have easily said 'tormented for time that does not end' or 'time that cannot end', but it does not say that.  It also does not say that time is somehow suspended (i.e., outside time).  The words for 'everlasting' and 'eternal' are very easy to say in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, and they are used in reference to the Father - but none of them are used in the literal bible in reference to punishment.  Rather, for punishment the literal text refers exclusively to finite planetary bodies (worlds) and finite time periods (ages).  So that's the key thing that's helpful to know, the literal text.

Revelation chapters 20-22 are incredibly insightful here to answer the question about Satan's destiny. We learn that death (or the dead) and sheol are tossed into the fire. But we also learn in 22:11 that some who do evil will do evil again. And we learn that on the new earth that murderers will be outside the great city (Rev. 22:15).  Why is the second death not referred to as the final death? 

Fortunately, in Rev 21:4, the text refers to the new earth when it says 'and death not will be'.  Note that this same statement is conspicuously absent to describe the dragon's punishment.  Rather, the dragon's punishment is explicitly described as "second death" in the very next passage at Rev 21:8.  After this phrase 'second death' appears in Rev 21:8, the dragon is not discussed again in the Book of Revelation, neither in Chapter 21 nor in Chapter 22.  That is because the text just told us that the dragon is dead, no longer in existence. 

Moreover, even the phrase 'and death will not be' is qualified in the literal text. This is because in Rev 21:4, the text refers to the new earth when it says 'death will not be' in that one particular world/age.  Indeed, one of the key limiting words used in this verse Lykm ("now" or "therefore") is used throughout the gospel in a limiting sense to some measurable amount of time or a measurable conclusion in a current world/age.  See e.g., Matthew 26:45 (referring to one night's sleep), Mark 11:14 (referring to the present world in comparison to a world to come), Mark 14:41 (same as Matthew 26:45), John 14:30 (Messiah says he won't speak again at that time rather than ever again); John 17:11 (Messiah says he won't be in the world again at that time rather than ever again).    Even the root of the word is Lwk Jm ("from measurement").

Moreover, the word Lykm is a combination of the roots Nm ("from") & Lk ("any/all"), so it is naturally dependent on context for meaning (i.e., from who/what/where/when; all/any of who/what/where/when). In Rev 21:4, the context is set in terms of new Jerusalem in the new age/world; so that is the specific 'Where' and 'When' that sets the context for how "death will not be thereforward," in new Jerusalem in the new age/world. This verse does not technically say that the new Jerusalem in the new world/age continues for perpetual time or exists outside of time. To claim perpetual time or eternal time from this verse would be an assumption outside the literal text.

Indeed, the problem with Satan being the carnal mind or an amalgam of man's negativity... is the scriptures.

Quote from: eaglesway on December 01, 2015, 09:50:59 PM
Indeed, the problem with Satan being the carnal mind or an amalgam of man's negativity... is the scriptures.

Quote from: eaglesway on November 28, 2015, 08:36:51 PM
IMO, if the devil is the devil, as Jesus and Paul describe him, to think that he is the carnal mind deals him no blow....as he prefers to be in the darkness, and not believed in, being as that he is the father of lies, author of confusion and the god of this world.

Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm....Eph 6

Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world. 1 Peter 5

"And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." (Luke 10:18)

I do agree that the carnal mind works like the devil. It is the same principle at work in the "sons of disobedience"... and it is the source of his expression through man, the door of access being thru the "lusts of the flesh, the pride of life and the pleasures of the mind"

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Cor 4

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Eph 2:2

Throughout the scripture from Job to revelation the adversary is portrayed as an entity, and if so large a body of reference in the scripture is symbolic or allegorical then the book is(to me) no more than fables and metaphors and therefore doctrine is meaningless. If the apostles and Jesus were so far in the dark as to who the adversary is then why place any weight on who they think God is?

When Jesus dealt with the madman of the Gadarenes He was addressing the "hosts of wickedness"(our name is Legion for we are many) that had taken up residence within the man, who, after He had cast them out, sat at His feet whole and in his right mind. The people from the town were so perplexed and astounded by this they asked Jesus to go somewhere else- it turned there belief systems upside down.

Having dealt with demons and the possessed and oppressed(no one should take my word for that- but it is my testimony and I affirm it without reserve)- I believe that the man in whom Legion reisided and those beings that went into the pigs were not "thoughts and attitudes", but real spiritual entities with identity and ego. I just dont see Paul speaking to us in allegories about this when in all other things he speaks directly what is in his mind from his actual perspectve on it. :2c:

The bible provides an example that Satan can enter a man suddenly and work directly upon the heart - John 13:2, "And when it was supper he cast Satan into the heart of Judas, son of Simon Iscariot, so that he would betray him."   

eaglesway, you have an interesting post above here with scripture citations and useful cautions.  For example, you quoted Luke 10:18, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."  That verse is pretty metaphorical though, so it's helpful to bring it back to a physical context with a supporting verse like Matthew 28:3 referring to an angel on earth, "His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow."

In the context of Luke 10:17-20, that verse you cited (Luke 10:18) also connects Satan with devils that inhabit people.  Indeed, recall Matthew 12:26, "And if Satan casts out Satan, he has been divided against himself; how therefore will his kingdom stand?"

You also cite passage in 1 Peter that suggests why it is helpful for Christians to identify Satan with some specificity, so we know what tools to use to defend ourselves, "Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world."

The standard interpretation is that Satan is a fallen angel with some kind of kingdom on earth, and that angels (fallen and not-fallen) can take physical form in addition to spiritual form.  See e.g., Genesis 18, Daniel 10:5, Zech 5:9-10, 2 Sam. 24:16.  I could cite Enoch as well here, but I'll just stick to the canon...

In 2 Kings 6:17, Elisha prayed that his servant would see the armies of angels surrounding the city -- and indeed, that servant discovered that he had overlooked invisible beings all around him. 

The literal text of the bible often leaves room for multiple meanings and interpretations, so I think it's smart to be prepared for a little uncertainty here.  What is the mind anyway?  Even the verse I cited above in Job (re Satan traveling in heaven with angels) is quite open for interpretation in the Hebrew text; prayers from the human mind for example can apparently enter heaven.  What if the human mind is where/how Satan and some angels draw power today, such that being aware of Satan as 'your own carnal mind' is actually an effective and direct tool to increase faith in harmony with 1 Peter to reduce Satan's power?

Whether or not it's ultimately true that Satan is carnal mind or some kind of strange spirit or amalgam, it's definitely insightful and thought-provoking.  I often find examples in Christianity where the Father can fulfill multiple layers of journey and truth for different people, like wheels within wheels. 

Does the insight regarding 'carnal mind' do anything for you personally?  Do you leave open the possibility that the 'carnal mind' insight can help someone different than you in their own life?  Is it even possible for us to know Satan the accuser in body and spirit so well that we can confirm that any 'carnal mind interpretations' are categorically adverse to scripture such that they hide the true identity of Satan and therefore empower him through concealment?  And if that were the case, how would that concealment (or ignoring of Satan) really threaten an otherwise faithful person who puts God as #1 in their life?  I suppose I'll add one more (rhetorical) question to the mix: Has the hiding of the book of Enoch concealed Satan and his armies of fallen angels?

Anyway, I'm intrigued intellectually by this idea that 'Satan may just be all in man's mind' -- it's like when you're watching a movie with a surprising twist (the Sixth Sense for example with Bruce Willis), and then at the end of the movie they reveal the big secret and then you start thinking back to all those movie scenes you wondered about earlier, and you go, "Ohhh yeaaah!!"  So I'm thinking back to Yahshua's temptation by Satan in the wilderness, and to Yahshua's admonition to Peter at Caesarea Philippi.  What if?  Interesting to brainstorm.  Nothing dogmatic here, just thinking out loud.

So the original question was "what's Satan's destiny?"  If Satan is empowered in some way by each man's mind, then his destiny becomes a matter of personal accountability.  Interesting, these words from 1 Peter, "Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world."

What is a spirit really? Is it matter? I always thoughts spirits were just personified concepts as in they are only as real as the concepts they derive from. Jealousy is not a physical person but it can be personified as a spirit. If Satan is the personification of the carnal mind then when the carnal mind disappears so will Satan.

....not speaking for EW..just my own expierence.  the serpent was more 'subtil' that any beast of the field.  and this a fine line of

  distinction to make between the exposing of the adversary.   No man ever hated his own flesh..but feeds and cherishes it.


    even the wicked love those who love them[see et doctrine] versus God's love for us when we were at enmity with Him/love your

enemies.


     It helped me in so many ways. Jesus would not have exposed them so openly as He did..if it did not matter......

    a very subtil enemy/adversary needs to be identified..and we need awareness of what it is capable of. the mystery of lawlessness

   must be revealed in the end.  Part of the atonement process is Azazel's goat..of whom all sin was confessed onto the head of.


    it's important..don't think it isn't.

  it also helped me to identify as a child of God..not a child of the devil...to not accept as  'natural' thinking..that which was a

  supernatural spirit putting thought's in my head.natural lust's of the flesh/it's only natural thinking...feeling,body urges.


    walking in obedience to His commands does protect us from the 'wicked one" but who doesn't stumble,is never decieved,confused

etc at times?....Azazel's goat will be fully discerned and appreciated in God's atonement process.

when God made Adam in His image and likeness...and give him dominion over the earth,Adam would bring the different creatures

and  Adam would observe them[note their characteristics/nature] then name them.To name something was to have dominion over it

   the wicked contrast spirit took the body of the serpent and Eve was decieved of it..not knowing it's 'nature'....


     seperating 'us' from our 'sin' and taking all our 'sin' away is what our High Priest does. the original serpent/original sin is a liar and

murderer and thief....deception,robbery and killing is it's nature..and our Saviour is delivering us from the wicked/evil one.

 :cloud9: Your mind is not capable of reaching into your body, grabbing a handful of your innards, and trying to then pull them out through your body. I say this, because I just experienced it in spiritual warfare over cleansing a new friend's home.

She and her husband and family had been enduring visitations constantly in their home they bought. They found out that the previous owners had been Satanists and used their garage and home for Satanic rituals. Before that, the house was owned by East Indian's who worshipped Kali, the goddess of death. This house was so bad that the furnace guy came once, had the life scared out of him, and refused to come back.

I went around the house, anointing the doors and windows with olive oil (merely a contact point for the person's FAITH, just like Paul's handkerchief was, no power in oil, obviously), and proclaiming the name of the Lord and His protection of them (they are Christian). The main demon was enraged, and God allowed it to do that to me momentarily, because the woman had not confessed to me that this had been happening to her, because she thought I would think she was crazy. So God uncovered it and it was dealt with promptly. Since then, they have not had anymore manifestations in their home.

In the beginning of my walk, deliverance for people going through things like this, was second nature to me. Then He shifted me elsewhere, what I call "God's boot camp" was over for me, I had other things to learn and grow in. But NO ONE should ever fall for the deception that Satan and his fellow demons are not real entities, capable of independent thought, and only exist to KILL, steal, and destroy. My  :2c: :2c: Blessings....

Quote from: Cardinal on December 02, 2015, 07:01:39 PM
:cloud9: Your mind is not capable of reaching into your body, grabbing a handful of your innards, and trying to then pull them out through your body. I say this, because I just experienced it in spiritual warfare over cleansing a new friend's home.

She and her husband and family had been enduring visitations constantly in their home they bought. They found out that the previous owners had been Satanists and used their garage and home for Satanic rituals. Before that, the house was owned by East Indian's who worshipped Kali, the goddess of death. This house was so bad that the furnace guy came once, had the life scared out of him, and refused to come back.

I went around the house, anointing the doors and windows with olive oil (merely a contact point for the person's FAITH, just like Paul's handkerchief was, no power in oil, obviously), and proclaiming the name of the Lord and His protection of them (they are Christian). The main demon was enraged, and God allowed it to do that to me momentarily, because the woman had not confessed to me that this had been happening to her, because she thought I would think she was crazy. So God uncovered it and it was dealt with promptly. Since then, they have not had anymore manifestations in their home.

In the beginning of my walk, deliverance for people going through things like this, was second nature to me. Then He shifted me elsewhere, what I call "God's boot camp" was over for me, I had other things to learn and grow in. But NO ONE should ever fall for the deception that Satan and his fellow demons are not real entities, capable of independent thought, and only exist to KILL, steal, and destroy. My  :2c: :2c: Blessings....

Wow!  When you put it that way, that's a very persuasive point.  I've never experienced anything even slightly like that. Never seen or heard a demon around me or in anyone else for that matter.  If what you say about that Satantist house is true, and I have no reason whatsoever to disbelieve you, then it would have been error to ask that woman to just sit down on the couch so you could tell her, 'you know, all of this Satan stuff is just in your mind'.  Meanwhile, lamps are flickering, art is falling off the walls, ahhh! 

 :cloud9: Yes, well they are a very persuasive point, themselves. Thirty years ago I came to the Lord on my knees in blind terror because I saw a friend of mine nearly possessed while we slept in a hotel room. God opened my eyes to see what was on her on her bed, before it got her.

We find it mildly humorous now (if you can imagine two women screaming and pleading the blood over themselves, standing on top of their beds at 3 o'clock in the AM in a hotel; that's the mildly humorous part), and give God the thanks and glory for allowing it to happen, because without it, we would have continued to be blind sinners. But you literally cannot imagine what the presence of pure evil feels like, until you have experienced it. Blessings....

Quote from: Cardinal on December 02, 2015, 07:34:03 PM
:cloud9: Yes, well they are a very persuasive point, themselves. Thirty years ago I came to the Lord on my knees in blind terror because I saw a friend of mine nearly possessed while we slept in a hotel room. God opened my eyes to see what was on her on her bed, before it got her.

We find it mildly humorous now (if you can imagine two women screaming and pleading the blood over themselves, standing on top of their beds at 3 o'clock in the AM in a hotel; that's the mildly humorous part), and give God the thanks and glory for allowing it to happen, because without it, we would have continued to be blind sinners. But you literally cannot imagine what the presence of pure evil feels like, until you have experienced it. Blessings....

Reading your post gave me chills.  Beyond reading a short article here and there over the years, I've never taken any real time to study the phenomena of demon possession, let alone understand it.  A long time ago I sort of just relegated demons & exorcism to the category of 'the depths of satan', not interested in going there personally, best to leave that to the professionals.  So it's been as foreign to me as the atmospherics of some distant star, just something i might read a snippet about online and then forget what I read within a week or so. 

I am impressed though.  That's awesome you found God through your unique experience and ability to triumph in your faith.  Sounds like the world needs people like you to keep doing whatever it is you're doing. 

Quote from: Aerex on December 02, 2015, 05:18:06 PM
What is a spirit really? Is it matter? I always thoughts spirits were just personified concepts as in they are only as real as the concepts they derive from. Jealousy is not a physical person but it can be personified as a spirit. If Satan is the personification of the carnal mind then when the carnal mind disappears so will Satan.

:iagree:

Quote from: greg on December 02, 2015, 07:56:13 PM
Reading your post gave me chills.  Beyond reading a short article here and there over the years, I've never taken any real time to study the phenomena of demon possession, let alone understand it.  A long time ago I sort of just relegated demons & exorcism to the category of 'the depths of satan', not interested in going there personally, best to leave that to the professionals.  So it's been as foreign to me as the atmospherics of some distant star, just something i might read a snippet about online and then forget what I read within a week or so. 

I am impressed though.  That's awesome you found God through your unique experience and ability to triumph in your faith.  Sounds like the world needs people like you to keep doing whatever it is you're doing.

The funny or ironic part is, my daughter is friends with their daughters, and she spent the night there the night before I went. That night, she put her bible down on a table, and the demon kept throwing something off the table because the presence of the bible antagonized it, I guess. After about 5 times of picking it up, my daughter said off hand, "If it doesn't stop it, I'm going to call my Mom and get her up to come over here and deal with this right now!" It stopped immediately and they went to bed.

The next morning, via the Spirit, I woke up KNOWING it was now time to go clean house. I called my daughter and told her to ask them if they were ready, because I was now "assigned" to do it, and she related to me what had happened the night before, and what she had said. God has a sense of humor, and I think because my daughter had said it, He thought, "Yeah, good idea, let's do that, I'll get right on that for you."

I was kidding my daughter later, and I told her next time she volunteered me, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, could she maybe find out beforehand first, if the demon is trying to pull anybody's guts out, Lol.....Blessings.....

Quote from: Cardinal on December 02, 2015, 10:10:05 PM
The funny or ironic part is, my daughter is friends with their daughters, and she spent the night there the night before I went. That night, she put her bible down on a table, and the demon kept throwing something off the table because the presence of the bible antagonized it, I guess. After about 5 times of picking it up, my daughter said off hand, "If it doesn't stop it, I'm going to call my Mom and get her up to come over here and deal with this right now!" It stopped immediately and they went to bed.

The next morning, via the Spirit, I woke up KNOWING it was now time to go clean house. I called my daughter and told her to ask them if they were ready, because I was now "assigned" to do it, and she related to me what had happened the night before, and what she had said. God has a sense of humor, and I think because my daughter had said it, He thought, "Yeah, good idea, let's do that, I'll get right on that for you."

I was kidding my daughter later, and I told her next time she volunteered me, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, could she maybe find out beforehand first, if the demon is trying to pull anybody's guts out, Lol.....Blessings.....

I like that!
:gimmefive:

Bex,I find the correlation regarding the belly interesting. offsprings of viper..which crawl on their belly..and whose 'god' is their belly..

  dust eater's......

  attempting to rip yours out.Little did they know..you had been eating the Lamb..and that the 'word of God' was in your belly!

    eating the little scroll.....taste's like honey on the tongue...but makes the belly bitter.

Cardinal if demonic entities are capable of independent thought how can they only exist to kill and destroy? Would they not have the same choices as humans do?

Also, the mind is capable of doing a lot of things which what we call a mental illness. Wouldn't it not be stretching to call every mental illness a spiritual attack?

Quote from: Aerex on December 03, 2015, 03:50:59 PM
Cardinal if demonic entities are capable of independent thought how can they only exist to kill and destroy? Would they not have the same choices as humans do?

:thumbsup:

perhaps they don't only exist to kill and destroy.. perhaps the whole problem stems from the ability to make choices (though so very limited, thank Goodness).. which, choice, I believe is very likely an offshoot of thinking ability.. If God is life (itself, who, what else could be?) and if He is perfection, which surely(?) He is.. Then couldn't we say when God endowed rationality and the ability to think and reason, didn't then a whole new world (or tree) of possibilities come about? Seeing as sooner or later, thinking ability will include the ability to make choices.

For whenever one chooses anything in thought, word or deed, which differs with what He chooses, they become imperfect the opposite of life.. hence death, and life, as we presently know it..

And in that path lies all the potential (a bottomless pit!) and cannot help but include oppression (trickery) and predator-ness... dog eat dog.. of all degrees.. and worse.. (it's a big no no, personally and collectively, going one's own way as opposed to His Way :smile: )

Quote from: sheila on December 03, 2015, 02:44:28 PM
Bex,I find the correlation regarding the belly interesting. offsprings of viper..which crawl on their belly..and whose 'god' is their belly..

  dust eater's......

  attempting to rip yours out.Little did they know..you had been eating the Lamb..and that the 'word of God' was in your belly!

    eating the little scroll.....taste's like honey on the tongue...but makes the belly bitter.

:cloud9: You know, I hadn't thought about it. Good point. Needless to say, I was shocked because the most He had ever let one do to me before while in deliverance mode, was scratch me or try to hold me. I commanded it to loose me, and go into the fire of the living God and it released me immediately. I'm sure it didn't like what it got from God in return.  :laughing7: Thank God for the authority through the Son and His blood.

After she spoke up and said it had been doing that to her, many times the pain dropping her to her knees, THEN I knew why He had allowed it. There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. It no doubt enjoyed bringing HER to her knees, but not so much the other way around.

Many times praying for people over the years, I would feel their pain in their body part, a kind of bearing the burdens of the weak, and that is one way He would show me what the problem was and then heal it. Him being touched by our infirmities, I think was literal. You can't have true compassion without walking in someone else's shoes.

I have to go back over there at the appointed time, because something has been trying to get back into the house at night. It put on quite a display of a light show one night for her and her husband out in the yard, but it couldn't get back in. It's stopped at the house. Even the neighbors are terrified of her yard; they've all reported seeing a black robed figure standing in her back yard at night. She's got pit bulls and they're terrified to go out if the thing is out there. I think all the Satanic activity and Kali worship brought an abundance of evil, not just one.

Interestingly, years ago when I was doing home health I was sent to a house just a couple of blocks from theirs. The woman there I was told was having anxiety attacks in the middle of the night and would become so out of it, she would end up in the local mental hospital for a few days. I was allowed to sleep if she did, in her grown son's bedroom across the hall. In the middle of the night, I had my breath taken away, literally.

There was a demonic entity under my bed, with huge wings, and it used it's huge wings to like envelope me on the bed. Another shocking moment. At the same second, the Lord was showing me her grown son I had never met, in Satanic high priest robes, laughing. I jolted awake and went into warfare mode. He said the son was trying to get complete control over her, so he could get her finances, which were substantial, and if killing her was the way to get it, he was so ate up, he didn't care. No other living relatives to intervene.

The next morning, I decided to see what was under the bed that gave it legal right to be there, and found a sketchbook with demonic figures he had drawn in detail, including one like the one that visited me. No doubt this kid was seeing them when he started to dabble in it. He was an only child and she had left his room just like it was when he moved away to go to college. I don't think she had any idea what was in his room, including Ouija board and demonically inspired "games".

That afternoon I was still there, and he came in with two of his coven members, and though he had never seen me before, glared at me and told my boss he didn't want ME to come back. I had done nothing, said nothing out of the way, just prayed the remainder of the night, and IT and him were offended. Again, there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed. Blessings...

Quote from: Aerex on December 03, 2015, 03:50:59 PM
Cardinal if demonic entities are capable of independent thought how can they only exist to kill and destroy? Would they not have the same choices as humans do?

Also, the mind is capable of doing a lot of things which what we call a mental illness. Wouldn't it not be stretching to call every mental illness a spiritual attack?

:cloud9: No, because they already made their choice. Salvation is not available to them, because they are not men, unless at the culmination of His grand plan, He chooses to make it so. But I personally doubt it. Until whom much is given much is expected. If it's true of us, how much more so would it be them?

When did I say every mental illness was a spiritual attack? Blessings....

Quote from: Cardinal on December 03, 2015, 09:05:52 PM

Quote from: Aerex on December 03, 2015, 03:50:59 PM
:cloud9: No, because they already made their choice. Salvation is not available to them, because they are not men, unless at the culmination of His grand plan, He chooses to make it so. But I personally doubt it. Until whom much is given much is expected. If it's true of us, how much more so would it be them?

When did I say every mental illness was a spiritual attack? Blessings....

Your right you didn't mention mental ilness I should not have included that in my statements. I was making a point that the mind is capable of a lot of things . I don't think we completely understand how it works.

In regards to the demonic entities, I was making the argument that if they have independent thoughts then they are capable of independent like humans they should be capable of changing like any sentient being except God. Now, I personally know what spirits are but I do hope God gives the same mercy as he has given to mankind. I am sure God is far merciful than me.

Now, if we say much is expected of us Christ asl

      UNDERSTANDING   for me is     Satan is a dog on a short leash  , short time and   short work ,  for each and every one of us ,, an accuser , robber and thief and one of Gods creation  for a specific purpose       ''to destroy''    ... and evil is its  motive  , no love or God , God is love in  this  entity  /being ,a thing with distinct and independent existence   , roaming freely in the earths  core  , our dust bodies .

  Satan  is used for the destruction of the flesh  , so on the Day of the Lord the Spirit will be saved   ....  the Spirit is Life , and of God   and LOVE is the motive or intent  proving   TRUTH .

  no flesh pleases God , so the  devil is designed and assigned    to destroy flesh  ,  the  flesh is  to me  just a catalyst     for containing the spirit

   a substance that increases the rate of a chemical reaction without itself undergoing any permanent chemical change.
a person or thing that precipitates an event:  in other words   ''trials of faith ''   

When tested   it is proven  ,   to be weakened  or strengthened  by the events   [catalyst ]     satan does not change   , but we do   
  In our weakness God is our strength      , in our  doubt    Jesus Christ is faithful     ,    and the mixing of the two     creates a chaos    ,  no order    , just sifting   out and separating the good from the bad     in us all , when we are awakened to it       , or realizing  Day light dawns after the darkest of  night ,    what just happened   ,  We can most definitely  GLORIFY GOD    though the experience   ..
  The Spirit within  prays for things  to God that the carnal mind cannot even begin to comprehend       , this relationship is  ruled by the hidden man of the  heart

  Being either the Lord Jesus Christ   , or the man of sin   which  ever outcome  is made  KNOWN   though and by the testing ....

  I  tried to explain  in the best of  abilities  by Gods grace  on all of us ,, God bless us with more of Him     , truly I am  sincere   or would have just kept silent  on  the matter .

  :HeartThrob:       I love you all and  still grieve  at times ,  till the Lord comes for refreshing ..

       

Quote from: rosered on December 04, 2015, 02:45:54 PM


            UNDERSTANDING   for me is     Satan is a dog on a short leash  , short time and   short work ,  for each and every one of us ,, an accuser , robber and thief and one of Gods creation  for a specific purpose       "to destroy"    ... and evil is its  motive  , no love or God , God is love in  this  entity  /being ,a thing with distinct and independent existence   , roaming freely in the earths  core  , our dust bodies.

  Satan  is used for the destruction of the flesh  , so on the Day of the Lord the Spirit will be saved   ....  the Spirit is Life , and of God   and LOVE is the motive or intent  proving   TRUTH .

  no flesh pleases God , so the  devil is designed and assigned    to destroy flesh  ,  the  flesh is  to me  just a catalyst     for containing the spirit

   a substance that increases the rate of a chemical reaction without itself undergoing any permanent chemical change.
a person or thing that precipitates an event:  in other words   "trials of faith "   

When tested   it is proven  ,   to be weakened  or strengthened  by the events   [catalyst ]     satan does not change   , but we do   
  In our weakness God is our strength      , in our  doubt    Jesus Christ is faithful     ,    and the mixing of the two     creates a chaos    ,  no order    , just sifting   out and separating the good from the bad     in us all , when we are awakened to it       , or realizing  Day light dawns after the darkest of  night ,    what just happened   ,  We can most definitely  GLORIFY GOD    though the experience   ..
  The Spirit within  prays for things  to God that the carnal mind cannot even begin to comprehend       , this relationship is  ruled by the hidden man of the  heart

  Being either the Lord Jesus Christ   , or the man of sin   which  ever outcome  is made  KNOWN   though and by the testing ....

  I  tried to explain  in the best of  abilities  by Gods grace  on all of us ,, God bless us with more of Him     , truly I am  sincere   or would have just kept silent  on  the matter .

  :HeartThrob:       I love you all and  still grieve  at times ,  till the Lord comes for refreshing ..

     

Yes! Especially the part I put in bold.

   I love this  scripture  and it has really impacted my thought process    and have mentioned it before   

   Because suffering and  sin abounds , it is so hard to keep   the joy of the Lord in our spirits  when we see so much suffering  and wrong doing in the world happening  ,  I at times feel guilty for enjoying  Life  WHEN seeing others still suffering so greatly  and such lack of love 

   It is better if God would will it you suffer for doing  good  than evil doing ....

  1 Peter 3 Suffering for Righteousness
...16and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.


17For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.


18For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;...

  and than  When Paul says  , God has better things for you in mind since the Cross of JESUS CHRIST   the grace of God has been given ,   just how truly blessed we really are ...

  Hebrews 11 The Faith of Many
...39And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,

40  because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

The beginning  to me being Israel   a Son and firstborn   , flesh Exodus 4:  20-24,  that was   called out of the world and  in JESUS CHRIST[only begotten  , one of a kind Son SPIRIT ]   would the perfection come  through Him ...

My understanding of it is, God created Satan for a purpose and he is doing exactly what God has given him to do but in the end Satan will be one of the all in all. If all means all as we all say then Satan will be probably one of the last things that will be reconciled. (Phil.3:21), says "he is able even to subdue ALL things unto himself". All things were created by Christ and for Christ. (Col. 1:16-20) If ALL things are reconciled unto Christ, verse 20 says "whether they be things in heaven or earth". (Eph. 1:10) "in the fulness of times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ".  Now if all means all that would include Satan and the angels.

CHB

Quote from: CHB on December 06, 2015, 08:32:03 PM
My understanding of it is, God created Satan for a purpose and he is doing exactly what God has given him to do but in the end Satan will be one of the all in all. If all means all as we all say then Satan will be probably one of the last things that will be reconciled. (Phil.3:21), says "he is able even to subdue ALL things unto himself". All things were created by Christ and for Christ. (Col. 1:16-20) If ALL things are reconciled unto Christ, verse 20 says "whether they be things in heaven or earth". (Eph. 1:10) "in the fulness of times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ".  Now if all means all that would include Satan and the angels.

CHB

Hi CHB ,
For  me ,I can certainly see what you are saying .
  But Satan represents EVIL and    all forms of it   .
I just see   NO evil existing  at all   in God , I see it more of a perish in the using   type .
  This is just mine own thoughts about it ..

    We shall all be changed in a twinkling of an eye ..

I do believe whatever is not'' holy'' pure  etc..  will be consumed by  God whom is,  an all consuming fire   of LOVE ... :HeartThrob:

I guess it is how many see satan    either as a being     or as an  adversary  and opposite  of everything God is not ,  a  non being .   but a principle and generally refers to a rule, law, or general truth.

   I can only   wonder ...

Quote from: CHB on December 06, 2015, 08:32:03 PM
My understanding of it is, God created Satan for a purpose and he is doing exactly what God has given him to do but in the end Satan will be one of the all in all. If all means all as we all say then Satan will be probably one of the last things that will be reconciled. (Phil.3:21), says "he is able even to subdue ALL things unto himself". All things were created by Christ and for Christ. (Col. 1:16-20) If ALL things are reconciled unto Christ, verse 20 says "whether they be things in heaven or earth". (Eph. 1:10) "in the fulness of times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ".  Now if all means all that would include Satan and the angels.

CHB

:thumbsup:

Quote from: rosered on December 06, 2015, 09:06:01 PM

Quote from: CHB on December 06, 2015, 08:32:03 PM
My understanding of it is, God created Satan for a purpose and he is doing exactly what God has given him to do but in the end Satan will be one of the all in all. If all means all as we all say then Satan will be probably one of the last things that will be reconciled. (Phil.3:21), says "he is able even to subdue ALL things unto himself". All things were created by Christ and for Christ. (Col. 1:16-20) If ALL things are reconciled unto Christ, verse 20 says "whether they be things in heaven or earth". (Eph. 1:10) "in the fulness of times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ".  Now if all means all that would include Satan and the angels.

CHB

Hi CHB ,
For  me ,I can certainly see what you are saying .
  But Satan represents EVIL and    all forms of it   .
I just see   NO evil existing  at all   in God , I see it more of a perish in the using   type .
  This is just mine own thoughts about it ..

    We shall all be changed in a twinkling of an eye ..

I do believe whatever is not" holy" pure  etc..  will be consumed by  God whom is,  an all consuming fire   of LOVE ... :HeartThrob:

I guess it is how many see satan    either as a being     or as an  adversary  and opposite  of everything God is not ,  a  non being .   but a principle and generally refers to a rule, law, or general truth.

   I can only   wonder ...

If all is in all then no evil will exist. Don't we all have some evil in us that will be destroyed? Satan won't be evil anymore.

CHB

Behold! I am making All Things New

CHB   author

QuoteIf all is in all then no evil will exist. Don't we all have some evil in us that will be destroyed? Satan won't be evil anymore.

CHB

  You said it , destroyed  , exactly ,  perishes in the using  ,  For me not a change but , it/satan /adversary   , liar murderer  accuser  , every form of evil  will not exist  any longer , CHB 

Quote from: eaglesway on December 07, 2015, 08:27:39 AM
Behold! I am making All Things New

Yes exactly , the new creature in Christ  , as the man of sin is destroyed /perishes  by the breath of Christ coming   
  Those are along the lines  of  what I  was trying to  say . 

   God bless ..

We were all liars and murderers too, but the sin in us was destroyed, not us. I guess it simply breaks down to whether you believe Satan is a being or not. i think he is and he will be redeemed, along with any other sentient beings in the universe. All things were created by Him, All things will be reconciled, For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.



Colossians 1
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach

Ephesians 1

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

 :cloud9: I think it's entirely possible. All things are possible with God. Blessings...

Quote from: Cardinal on December 08, 2015, 02:25:17 AM
:cloud9: I think it's entirely possible. All things are possible with God. Blessings...

:iagree:   :HeartThrob:

Quote from: eaglesway on December 07, 2015, 10:28:50 PM
We were all liars and murderers too, but the sin in us was destroyed, not us. I guess it simply breaks down to whether you believe Satan is a being or not. i think he is and he will be redeemed, along with any other sentient beings in the universe. All things were created by Him, All things will be reconciled, For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.



Colossians 1
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach

Ephesians 1

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Now I believe this, "All things were created by Him, All things will be reconciled, For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things."

Now, this....."I guess it simply breaks down to whether you believe Satan is a being or not. i think he is "

I believe the adversary is a spirit, and very real but falling into the catalog of "things", why or what makes you believe the adversary is a "being" other than existing? Just curious :Peace2:

The scriptures use personality descriptives and personal pronouns to describe him, as well as conversations with God in Job and wth Jesus on the mount of temptation, So I think he is a being with an ego, like Michael or Gabriel-tho I have no real opinion on the whole Christian mythology of his origins, Paul calls him the god of this world and Jesus says the fire was prepared for the devil and his angels. Proverbs says the gods of the nations are demons. In Daniel we see Michael and Gabriel struggle with the demon Prince of Persia.

Gabriel recounts the story to Daniel in a way that is not allegorical. Actually none of those scriptures are allegorical, with the exception of perhaps Job, which I personally believe is historical.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.........

Satan is a "son of God"

Job 1;12 The Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come? .......

Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the Lord, "Does Job fear God for nothing?

Mt 4:10 Then Jesus *said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.'"


2 Cor 2:10 But one whom you forgive anything, I forgive also; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did it for your sakes in the presence of Christ, so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes.


Mark 3:26 If Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but he is finished!

I get all that, yet...      Eph 6:12 for it is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials."

And I have wondered about.."The scriptures use personality descriptives and personal pronouns to describe him....." and why.

Not wanting a debate or discussion I will stay with "things." Either way the adversary has been given authority and it is a warfare. :Peace2:

Here is something to think about. The bible says we were enemies in our mind by wicked works. The only works we can have in our mind are thoughts. The bible says(Nahum 1:2) God reserves his wrath for his enemies. Those folks that want to believe in an eternal fiery hell usually react to the message of UR as if the message was one of wrath against their beloved doctrine.

In Zechariah 13:6 he calls us friends. That should eliminate us from wrath not saying we won't endure correction as needed. The TRUTH is wrath upon any doctrine that separates you from the fact that you are considered loved, accepted and highly favored by your Father God.

Funny thing how the New Age thinkers believe in the Law of Attraction. They believe if you think on a thing and visualize a thing it will eventually come your way. They believe your thoughts are powerful as well as your words and actions. Now many say they are trying to do this apart from Jesus but they are getting results. I'm not saying all of them are but there is enough of them that are famous that attribute their success to that practice.

Now if they can do this with their thoughts and visualizations in a positive manner. Believing what they call "Source" since they don't want to associate too closely with Jesus as God but more as a teacher or way shower. Couldn't a person be doing just the opposite believing in the "Devil" and imagining the negative things they fear as in JOB'S case to also bring that same power into being in a negative way? Job was always making sacrifices just in case his kids may have done something wrong. He said the thing he GREATLY FEARED had come upon him. It was what you might call FAITH IN REVERSE.

One more thought about Satan. Have you ever gone to God in prayer about someone that was giving you a hard time on the job or maybe a neighbor that was driving you up the wall with excessively loud boom-boom type music. Going to God with really a big ought in your heart or mind wanting HIM to get them to change and show them how wrong they are not because you really love them but because you really can't stand them. Your prayer motive more concerned about your own good than theirs. Not that you wouldn't want them to change or "Be Saved" but your primary motive is for God to show them how wrong they are and wanting them to be changed more for your benefit. So you could be a SON OF GOD presenting yourself BEFORE GOD and because of your accusing thoughts or motive Satan could be appearing with you BEFORE GOD. Where is Satan? In your wrong thoughts or motives just as you seem to be doing good like Peter when he told Jesus he didn't have to be killed and Jesus said Get Behind Me Satan.

Just putting these thoughts out here to share and I can't claim credit for the paragraph right above here but it was shared with me by a very close friend and seemed to make sense to me.I believe it to be a genuine revelation from the Spirit of God.

THIS POST MIGHT BE BETTER IN THE THREAD ABOUT DEMONS IF SO MODERATORS PLEASE MOVE IT IF NECESSARY--Thank You

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Quote from: micah7:9 on December 08, 2015, 10:49:21 PM
I get all that, yet...      Eph 6:12 for it is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials."

And I have wondered about.."The scriptures use personality descriptives and personal pronouns to describe him....." and why.

Not wanting a debate or discussion I will stay with "things." Either way the adversary has been given authority and it is a warfare. :Peace2:

:Peace2:

He1MyHeart...
You make some valid arguments...I know that line of thinking is quickly dismissed by some but it does make me think.

I know there's a lot of biblical hurdles if you want to go that route but ETers say that of UR!

I have read other articles that analyze scripture to make your case and some do a good job.

I'm not committed to one single belief on this matter.

Whether or not Satan is a being, a spirit, a force, or a thought...thank God he/it will be no more someday!

Also interestingly, people that are described or accused as Satanic (like pop music icons, illuminati, world leaders) don't seem to exalt Satan in the same way that Christians exalt God....instead they exhaulT THEMSELVES and want to be worshiped by the masses.

People who exhibit the character traits of Satan are heavily influenced by him/it.

 :cloud9: What Job feared most was God, and so the dealings of God are what came upon him. Anyone who fears Him will go through the same dealings, but the good news, they shall receive the double portion. My  :2c: Blessings.....

As with us all :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

Quote from: Cardinal on December 09, 2015, 10:51:52 PM
:cloud9: What Job feared most was God, and so the dealings of God are what came upon him. Anyone who fears Him will go through the same dealings, but the good news, they shall receive the double portion. My  :2c: Blessings.....

:thumbsup: :iagree: :thumbsup: