Theories on God's compassion for us. "Whatsoever you do unto the least of these"

[DanielB]

I have some theories based on a combination of scripture, testimony, and logical reasoning about God's compassion. What Jesus said in the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats is probably the main inspiration for my theory.

Matthew 25:34-45 (ESV)
34 Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?' 40 And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?' 45 Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.'

To me, this raises two questions.

Question A: "Why/How is it that serving/neglecting the 'least of these' is serving/neglecting God?"

My answer/belief is that serving/neglecting "the least of these" is equivalent to serving/neglecting God because God perfectly loves "the least of these" and knows all that is going on in their minds with perfect understanding(understanding their perspective but not necessarily adopting it). I think the majority of serious christians would affirm that God loves and understands those he is referring to here. I would go on to say that in some sense, whatever we do for/against a child, we do for/against the child's loving parents. Whether you are a parent or not, I think you can probably imagine that if some guy were to walk up to and smack your child, it would be as if he had smacked you or even worse. If someone saved your child's life, it would be as if he saved your life(or you might be even more grateful than if he had saved your life).

Question B: "Who are the 'least of these'?"

I am not sure who God means by "the least of these". Maybe "even the least of these", as in another way of saying "anyone"? It often seems to be associated with impoverished people, desperate people, children, or so on. But if my answer to the first question is correct, it is moot because God loves everyone.



I suspect that what I have said up to this point would be believable to many of you and maybe even "orthodox" christianity. I think where my ideas start pushing buttons is in my belief and claim that this applies to anyone and everyone. I assert that whatever harm or good we do to anyone, we do for or against God himself.

Assuming my interpretations or ideas are true so far, this raises some more questions to which my theories or answers have been rejected by many.

Question C: "In what way do we serve, neglect, or harm God himself by serving, neglecting, or harming others?"

I suspect in at least two senses. First, God is our loving Father and I already gave an example of the parental love and compassion that God has for us. I am very confident and even accept as dogma that God is the loving Dad of all people and cares deeply how we treat each other.

I have a theory about the second sense, and this theory can be easily misunderstood and has been unpopular to most or all the people I have shared it with. So this is where it gets controversial... I suspect that God also experiences things from our perspective(including the experience of being non-omniscient and imperfect). For example, that he has experience with things like hopelessness or even knows what it is like to be an atheist. I am saying that I suspect he lives out our experiences but there are some important nuances here. I don't believe that whatever happens to us actually happens to God, I think it is purely experiential for God, it is perfect omniscient empathy, nothing more and nothing less.

Question/Objection D: "Isn't that pantheism, oneism, or some sort of new-age crap?"

Absolutely not. I believe and assert the distinction and separateness between God and his creations. I do not believe God is one with his living or non-living creations. I firmly believe and assert that God is eternal/uncreated and we are created beings that we are each different individuals from God and other humans. I hate the lie that "we are God" or "God is us". So however mistaken I may or may not be, I am not pushing that kind of crap.

I should clarify that I do not mean to say that whatever we do to others actually happens to God. I mean to say that God just feels the impact of what we do for or against others. If I punch someone in the face or give someone a comforting hug, I have not punched or hugged God. I believe that if I punch people in the face, I put God through(or rather, God chooses to go through) whatever suffering I put that person through. If we give someone a sincere hug and if comforts or does them some good or gives them some happiness, we have not wrapped our arms around God but we have given him some comfort or happiness or good.

I think God certainly has the ability to do this, it is a question of whether or when he uses that ability.


Question E: "So is God constantly experiencing the pain of thousands of stubbed toes and bumped heads?"

This is a question that I ask, does God share in all of these little seemingly unimportant experiences, or does he choose to share in only our important experiences? I don't think God has billions of toes or heads or that he inhabits our bodies in the same way that we do, I don't believe that we are incarnations of God and I seriously doubt that he physically experiences everything that happens to our bodies or that Jesus if physically wounded when we are. I hope I made that clear but these ideas are hard for me to articulate clearly.

I don't think God suffers when I stub my toe or scrape my hands because I don't suffer when I do. God is not going to suffer so much when a boxer gets punched in the face so long as the tough boxer does not suffer as a result. There is a difference between physical pain and suffering.

Question F: "What if I don't want God do go through my sufferings?"

I answer that I think God will choose whatever is best. When we have more understanding of these things(assuming that a lot of this type of stuff will be revealed to us some point after our resurrection), we will understand and agree with God's choice whether he chooses to suffer(in compassion) or doesn't. Most of us wouldn't want to share our suffering with our loved ones, we may desire their understanding or comfort, but we don't want to torment them! However, this seems to be included in the packages of loving someone, we may share their suffering insofar as we perceive and understand it(imperfect empathy) and God may share in our suffering insofar as he is aware and understanding of it(and being omniscient, he totally understands and is aware of all of it). I am not worried about this, I don't think God would want us feeling guilty over this any more than we would want a loved one to feel guilty or rejecting of our compassion for them.

Question G: "If these theories are true, how can we justify disciplining or correcting children or anyone? How can we justify wielding authority over God as if he were our child or punishing God along with a criminal that is deserving of punishment?"

This is a good question and the opportunity to make an important distinction. Of course, we are not obliged to treat other humans as if they were God. I do believe that an implication of my theory is that we ought not willfully act against the best interests of others.

I am not sure exactly what sort of guidance and correction Jesus himself may have needed as a child or even as a grown man. I do believe that he was morally perfect and fulfilled spiritual or Biblical obligation he had as a human, but did he have to learn things like etiquette(did he play with his food too much at any point?) or did he have to be taught carpentry and so on as an apprentice? And if those that he was apprenticing under knew that he was God, would it be wrong or insolent or inappropriate for the more skilled carpenter to correct or guide him? Would Mary dare tell little Jesus "Stop playing with your food Jesus" if she had known that he was the incarnation of God? lol Well maybe he was was perfectly mannered and skilled in everything, I don't know, we can only speculate. But if he had to be taught certain skills or corrected in certain ways, wouldn't it be best to do so, even if you knew he was God? So a response to Question G in the style of the Biblical parable is "Won't he say 'When I was in need of correction, guidance, or accountability, you deprived me of them'?"

In the case of evildoers, they need to be held accountable for their own good. There is the question of what methods or severity of accountability would be appropriate in response to various evils. There is also the matter of figuring or trying to discern when it is best to try to hold someone accountable and when it is best left to God. Whatever the case, even the worst evildoers are loved by God and ought not be punished out of spite or hate or vengefulness, any punishment done to an evildoer must be loving or compatible with love(also remembering that we are or at the very least were all evildoers).


Question H: "Are you saying that I am guilty of wronging God in every way and in every case that I have harmed others?"

Yes, I am saying that we are all guilty of this. I think this is Biblical christianity regardless of whether my other ideas are correct. But if we accept the charge, we can start to appreciate God's love and forgiveness more. We can know that God loves us regardless of how much evil or foolish or harmful things we have done. I think one of the things that some people hate about my theories above is that they are profoundly scandalizing, people don't want to accept that they have done to God what they have done to their enemies or people that they have exploited or so on.  But people holding on to unforgiveness or repressed guilt will not like what I am saying Of course, it is fair to be skeptical or disagree with me, there are more honest reasons to disagree or to be skeptical of my ideas. I wouldn't want to suggest that disagreeing with me makes you guilty of any wrongdoing or self-righteousness. I myself have some doubts about them and I have a lot of the same questions. Most of the questions here are questions I asked and still ask in my head when considering these ideas.

Question I: "How can God experience someone's suffering and someone else's joy or happiness at the same time? Especially considering that there are billions of people!"

I don't know, I doubt it is something I can comprehend. CS Lewis attempted to answer a similar question in the  "Time and Beyond Time" chapter of Mere Christianity https://www.dacc.edu/assets/pdfs/PCM/merechristianitylewis.pdf but I am skeptical of some of the common claims made about time.




Conclusion:

I would not assert this as a doctrine and I am not 100% intellectually sure of these things. I do believe it or at least think and act as if I believe it(often forgetting it though). This influences my actions and there have been times where even if I don't feel like helping someone for their own sake, I helped them for Jesus's sake or because I remember their value when thinking about it and feel more inclined to care about them rather than just doing so out of obligation to Jesus. It also gives me a sense of awe that almost scares me, to think that God endures all that and has been enduring it for thousands of years!


Aside from interpretations of scripture and my logical reasoning(that this follows from the fact that God loves us), there are the testimonies of people having visions of Jesus experiencing their suffering. Now, I don't consider visions to be authoritative or anything, people have all sorts of crazy visions or claim that God said this or that foolishness to them. But I guess I respond to them almost like thought experiments. If any testimony, or alleged vision or anyone in any way presents version of God to me that seems to me to be greater than my current idea of God, I give it a lot of weight because even if the vision itself was imagined up or even an intentional lie, it must be closer to the truth than what I previously knew. God's goodness can not be overestimated. No vision or statement about God is too good to be true, if it is not true then it is because it is not good enough to be true. We can not be too optimistic about the character or goodness of God. Of course, there should always be the caution that comes with knowing that we do not always discern correctly what is good or best. Good things and wisdom are often counterintuitive, a person may think that a warm fuzzy god that does not seek to refine us is a higher view of God than our Biblical God, and of course they are wrong.

Anyway, there is a pretty heavy(dark) but I think a good sermon by Peter Hiett on the idea of God suffering with us, he seems to be saying something similar. Peter Hiett may or may not take things as far as I do, I don't want to misrepresent his views or say that he believes all these ideas of mine. https://www.thesanctuarydenver.org/sermons/the-god-who-weeps/

[marie glen]

 :Chinscratch: "The God who weeps" I have thought of His Holy Spirit as a both a laughing and a weeping Spirit..  Laughter being His inherent joy.

I agree that the Lord was basically saying how we treat others is how we treat Him.. I think of it as God surely is life itself.. so I agree with you. NOT that we are God, etc. I too hate that stuff.. Ultimately I think all - each one - will be a trinity! :faint: Of, the Father as MOST HIGH, and the Son, as Lord, firstborn and "forever preeminent", and lastly, the individual. And this I figure is what the Lord said, that He and the Father comes and lives in us and us in them. WE, imo, won't be omnipresent nor omnipowerful.. but much more aware, intelligent, and knowing than we are now.

:thumbsup: :iagree: