The rapture?

[fullarmor2]

   Excuse me if this has been discussed already.   But I've heard a number of UR folks say that their view regarding the rapture has changed since they became a Universalist.   So if thats you,  I would like to know what you think 1 Cor !5 , about believers receiving new "immortal"  bodies "in the twinkling of an eye" ,   means?  Also,  1 Thes 4 ,  where it says " For the Lord himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, and voice of the arc angel and the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise,  and we who are alive and remain,  shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air".   What does this mean then? 

[Beloved Servant]

Here is a very good study on the rapture lie:
www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Looking/Looking47.htm

[jabcat]

I'm going to read this, BServ.  J. Preston is one of the very first I turn to for a perspective on scripture.  God used his writings to introduce me to UR.   :thumbsup:

[Beloved Servant]

As do I JC,
He has a fine way of delivering the message.
Also, he is a friendly and wonderful man.

[jabcat]

Tell me sometime more of what you know of him, BServ.  In the meantime, YES, YES!  Highly recommended reading!  Excerpt from the article you link;

"Men gaze steadily into the skies looking for Jesus to come flashing across the heavens to snatch them up and carry them away, but their spirits have never been enravished with these enlightening words: "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and HATH TRANSLATED US into the kingdom of His dear Son" (Col. 1:13).

A "catching up" is taking place today. There is a transference to a new kingdom and a new kind of experience which we have not known before. Unto transformed men today the Spirit is speaking these magnificent words: "If ye then BE RISEN with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God" (Col. 3:1). There is a spiritual rapture with Christ and all who partake of it will find that their affections are being set upon heavenly things ABOVE and not on things on the earth." - J.Preston Eby

[Beloved Servant]

We have just exchanged a couple of letters.
That's all.
Despite his anointed pen, he's a brother waiting, like us, for the SonRise.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, to J. Preston Eby's writings......... :thumbsup:

[chuckt]

Tell me sometime more of what you know of him, BServ.  In the meantime, YES, YES!  Highly recommended reading!  Excerpt from the article you link;

"Men gaze steadily into the skies looking for Jesus to come flashing across the heavens to snatch them up and carry them away, but their spirits have never been enravished with these enlightening words: "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and HATH TRANSLATED US into the kingdom of His dear Son" (Col. 1:13).

A "catching up" is taking place today. There is a transference to a new kingdom and a new kind of experience which we have not known before. Unto transformed men today the Spirit is speaking these magnificent words: "If ye then BE RISEN with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God" (Col. 3:1). There is a spiritual rapture with Christ and all who partake of it will find that their affections are being set upon heavenly things ABOVE and not on things on the earth." - J.Preston Eby

i understand that, but how would you address this:

Act 1:11   Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. 

here is an intersting version:

do we today visualize something we know nothing of? did Jesus change as he ""went up"" and is this verse refering to pentacost?? have we missed it?


chuckt

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/act1.pdf

[martincisneros]

There are two entirely separate issues with regards to the misnomer of "rapture." The resurrections are not divided up by the Scriptures -- only in the vain imaginations of premillenial dispensationalist artists. Gap theories, as a general rule, don't Biblically work, and Dan 12, John 5, 2Tim 4, & a lot of other passages places the resurrection of the righteous & the wicked at the same time. Some would say, but there's Scriptures that speak of the wicked not having this hope, so what could this be but a separate resurrection? No, that's where UR comes in, that the coming of the Lord is a blessed hope for even the wicked! I'm entering into my immortality right now, 'cause one of the many Biblical ways that this happens, besides what it says in Rom 2, is a total Song of Solomon APOCALYPSE overtaking one, from the Lord. :bgdance:

[Redlettervoice]

Tell me sometime more of what you know of him, BServ.  In the meantime, YES, YES!  Highly recommended reading!  Excerpt from the article you link;

"Men gaze steadily into the skies looking for Jesus to come flashing across the heavens to snatch them up and carry them away, but their spirits have never been enravished with these enlightening words: "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and HATH TRANSLATED US into the kingdom of His dear Son" (Col. 1:13).

A "catching up" is taking place today. There is a transference to a new kingdom and a new kind of experience which we have not known before. Unto transformed men today the Spirit is speaking these magnificent words: "If ye then BE RISEN with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God" (Col. 3:1). There is a spiritual rapture with Christ and all who partake of it will find that their affections are being set upon heavenly things ABOVE and not on things on the earth." - J.Preston Eby

i understand that, but how would you address this:

Act 1:11   Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. 

here is an intersting version:

do we today visualize something we know nothing of? did Jesus change as he ""went up"" and is this verse refering to pentacost?? have we missed it?


chuckt

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/act1.pdf

Chuck, He left "going UP" .............will He return "going UP" ........
????

I mean, we visualize the earthly "spot" where He left, but remember
the earth is round? ha ha ha

Is it talking of Christ IN YOU? the HOPE of Glory?

[chuckt]

Chuck, He left "going UP" .............will He return "going UP" ........
????

I mean, we visualize the earthly "spot" where He left, but remember
the earth is round? ha ha ha

Is it talking of Christ IN YOU? the HOPE of Glory?

VERY interesting.....

i remember growing up seeing the paintings of a bearded blond haired blued eyed man in a robe, with outstretched arms..... floating up into the sky.......always had a problem with that.

peace
chuckt

[sparrow]

So... did Jesus just dissapear?
Or did his body actually float up towards the sky?

[chuckt]

So... did Jesus just dissapear?
Or did his body actually float up towards the sky?

you mean like a balloon, getting smaller and smaller waving, bye bye  :laughing7: :bgdance:

i see him going between realms, probly disappeard instantly, no reason to hang around.

actually he didnt go anywhere

Jesus didnt have to nor did he walk through walls or doors, he showed up exactly where he already was.

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them."


Jhn 20:19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, [fn] for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace [be] with you."


It dosent say he walked through the door, he apperead in their midst because he was already there




you?

chuckt

[SQ]

I had always visioned he started walking and then walked in the clouds and disappeared out of sight.
This is just what I visioned, not sure if this is right or not.

[chuckt]

I had always visioned he started walking and then walked in the clouds and disappeared out of sight.
This is just what I visioned, not sure if this is right or not.

interesting to ponder, from the perspective of the earth he might have seemed to be going up, but not from his perspective.

when does ""UP"" stop being up  :winkgrin:

[WhiteWings]

I had always visioned he started walking and then walked in the clouds and disappeared out of sight.
This is just what I visioned, not sure if this is right or not.

when does ""UP"" stop being up  :winkgrin:

I don't know that.
But I know if you live and Australia and go down you actually go up  :dsunny:

[Doc]

Yeah, we are talking about Jesus Christ here, not Mary Poppins... :laughing7:

[SQ]

I had always visioned he started walking and then walked in the clouds and disappeared out of sight.
This is just what I visioned, not sure if this is right or not.

interesting to ponder, from the perspective of the earth he might have seemed to be going up, but not from his perspective.

when does ""UP"" stop being up  :winkgrin:

Possibly he disappeared from sight and never went anywhere? :dontknow:
Would it be correct to say he is here now in form of the Holy Spirit? 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: It's correct to me.........Blessings....

[chuckt]

I had always visioned he started walking and then walked in the clouds and disappeared out of sight.
This is just what I visioned, not sure if this is right or not.

interesting to ponder, from the perspective of the earth he might have seemed to be going up, but not from his perspective.

when does ""UP"" stop being up  :winkgrin:

Possibly he disappeared from sight and never went anywhere? :dontknow:
Would it be correct to say he is here now in form of the Holy Spirit? 

its impossible to understand how the spiritual realm works,like it was said, we know this for sure:

actually he didnt go anywhere

Jesus didnt have to nor did he walk through walls or doors, he showed up exactly where he already was.

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them."


Jhn 20:19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, [fn] for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace [be] with you."


It dosent say he walked through the door, he apperead in their midst because he was already there



also i think going ""up"" was really just going between, between realms.



peace
chuck

[aspiring son]

"actually he didnt go anywhere

Jesus didnt have to nor did he walk through walls or doors, he showed up exactly where he already was.

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them."


Jhn 20:19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, [fn] for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace [be] with you."


It dosent say he walked through the door, he apperead in their midst because he was already there



also i think going ""up"" was really just going between, between realms.



peace
chuck
[/quote]

Agreed

[Redlettervoice]

"actually he didnt go anywhere

Jesus didnt have to nor did he walk through walls or doors, he showed up exactly where he already was.

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them."


Jhn 20:19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, [fn] for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace [be] with you."


It dosent say he walked through the door, he apperead in their midst because he was already there



also i think going ""up"" was really just going between, between realms.



peace
chuck

Agreed
[/quote]

Talk about God making this real to you, I had a dream several years
ago, and the "preachers" in the "bleachers" had "hid" my "harp" which
I used to play when I sang.  Didn't want it. I was really being chased
by that religious spirit at the time.  I remember coming out of the place
and then there was unexpected "ice" to make me fall, all of a sudden
the Spirit took me plumb outta my shoes, ha, like the picture on the
t shirts of the rapture.  I went UP.  What I did was go UP in my mind.
The Spirit in me overcame my own flesh. 

Chuck, like what you said here, this needs to be kept in focus all the
time, He never went but where He already was.  A one liner of excellent
Truth.