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[Molly]

willieH: Hi Scott... :hithere:

Seen this thread as I passed through to answer a pm and thought I would add my  :2c:

I don't beleive we existed as seperate beings before we were born into this world, I see it more as we were the rib in Christ that was taken out of Him to make His bride, or we were in Him the same as Levi was in Abraham and paid tithes before he was born into this world.

If CHRIST is UNCHANGING (Heb 13:8), and is ETERNAL (John 1:1), and we are "His rib"... then by these notations, if we proceeded from Him... we are ETERNAL as well, being PART of Him who does NOT CHANGE...

Also... YHVH is also UNCHANGING (Mal 3:6) and is found to be ALL in ALL (1 Cor 15:28)... this being so... the "ALL" that He IS in ALL... is ETERNAL, permeating that which He is "ALL" ...in...  :dontknow:

peacE...
willieH   :angel4:

"We are His rib"

There's that Adam and Eve thing, Willie.

And, who was Adam?  ...the son of God [Lk 3]

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Brian... :hithere:

You said:

In other words if you're a believer when you die, you soul goes to be with the Lord. Later on, it's united with your resurrected glorified body.

Then I said:

Sorry bro, ...but this is more traditional theology which actually makes no sense, ..."go to heaven",  ...then later on, come back & be united with your "resurrected, glorified body"... :mnah:  I don't buy it...

And furthermore, it does not coincide with what CHRIST said about Himself... That He would RISE AGAIN AFTER 3 Days, ...and He also stated that He had NOT YET ASCENDED to the Father, ...a point which was AFTER His RESSURECTION had taken place, as I have already noted...

The "go to Heaven" thing, is unfounded in the Bible... The Bible doesn't even say that  ANYONE, ..."GOES to HEAVEN"!   :dontknow:

To which you said today:

Came across this one today:

22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. Philippians 1:22-24.

To which I say:

This doesn't indicate Paul as, ..."going to Heaven"...

When we "DEPART" this life... we are no longer members of TIME.  We therefore do not observe its (1) passing (2) manifestations (3) total forward duration...

In DEPARTING this life... we enter the state of DEATH... which is WITHOUT observation of ANYTHING, earthly OR heavenly... so essentially... the MOMENT (or twinkling of an "eye") we "DIE"... no PASSING of TIME is OBSERVEABLY noted BY US ...[EXPERIENTIALLY]... to the point of "RESURRECTION to LIFE"...

LIFE itself, is EXISTENCE which gives the entities experiencing it, an OBSERVATION point... in the state of DEATH, there is NO OBSERVATION point.  Therefore, neither TIME nor ETERNITY can be "seen" in their particular manifestations...

We are linear, physical beings... and most tend to transfer those (linear and physical) parameters to SPIRITUAL existence...

We exist in TIME, so we NATURALLY transfer that parameter in our endeavor to percieve and to measure ETERNITY wondering such as:  "WHEN" did GOD "create" the ANGELS...  :laughing7:  (not laughing at you bro, ...laughing at the UNSPIRITUAL state in which these type of observations, equate -- and, ...in which MOST "believers" are engulfed)

We presently live in TIME CONFINED, PHYSICAL bodies, so as most observe SPIRITUAL things, they require within NATURAL FINITE thinking, ...that the ETERNAL is measured BY these parameters...

Posing such questions as: 

How FAR is Heaven from here?  :Chinscratch:  Or, how LONG is ETERNITY?   :Chinscratch:  Was GOD ever ALONE?   :Chinscratch:

"Heaven" is HERE already... in the SPIRIT of YHVH and in His WORD (CHRIST)

"Heaven" is not a "location"... which one "goes" to... It is a state of HEART which is become (via the SHAPING of GOD's hands), COMPLETE...

{----Might I make a note at this point...  YHVH GOD NEVER CHANGES...  In the created realm of TIME, ...GOD is conveying to HIS BODY, the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil... HIS BODY is not CHANGED... it is REVEALED/INFORMED.  ...YHVH is NOT CHANGED He is REVEALING what has ALWAYS BEEN... that HIS BODY KNOW ALL that HE KNOWS...  CHRIST is REVEALED to each man ("body part") -- which "revelation" notes that CHRIST was ALWAYS THERE, ...however was OBSCURED from the vision of those "body parts"!  :laughing7:----}

As I said, there are no verses which state that humans "go to Heaven" or "go to Hell" in the WORD...  this is a FALLACY, and the "creation" of theologians which are yet immersed in their flesh and continue to observe, from it...

Men professing to be SPIRITUAL, taking the WORDS of SPIRIT, and applying them to the PHYSICAL to them... instead of taking the words of the PHYSICAL and applying them to the SPIRIT...  :dontknow:

The meanings of the WORDS of CHRIST were shielded from MEN of RELIGION [JEWS]... it is no different today [CHRISTIANS]...

CHRISTIANITY for the most part, is a descendent of JUDAISM... a RELIGION, which, within and from its NATURAL state of observation -- is blind, deaf, without understanding in the SPIRIT...

peacE...
willieH   :angel4:

[Molly]

2 Corinthians 12:2
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.

Paul's NDE.