John 15

[Eduard]

1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.


9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command. 15I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17This is my command: Love each other."

18"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: 'They hated me without reason.


26"When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning. (NIV)

I believe that here is a lot of what we need to know about what we must do as Christians, this is a truly excellent passage, and certainly in line with verses from other Gospels and the writings of the apostles. 

It is interesting that in the Eastern Orthodox Church at least, believers are referred to as "servants", or more accurately "bondservants of God", even if Christ Himself said that the apostles were no longer just servants, but friends. :cloud9:

Any comments or ideas for further discussion?

[Dandelion]

1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.


9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command. 15I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17This is my command: Love each other."

18"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: 'They hated me without reason.


26"When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning. (NIV)

I believe that here is a lot of what we need to know about what we must do as Christians, this is a truly excellent passage, and certainly in line with verses from other Gospels and the writings of the apostles. 

It is interesting that in the Eastern Orthodox Church at least, believers are referred to as "servants", or more accurately "bondservants of God", even if Christ Himself said that the apostles were no longer just servants, but friends. :cloud9:

Any comments or ideas for further discussion?

I have put in bold some quotes that I find particularly important/interesting.

"....Apart from me, you can do nothing."  All good comes from God. We need to 'plug' into the power of the Almighty, for everything. This will certainly humble us.

"Love one another, as I have loved you."  What could be more powerful words? The power of example.....of a God who comes to us to show us the way.....to teach us what love really looks like. Emmanuel.....God with us.  So overwhelmingly beautiful.

The Holy Spirit, the advocate, who goes out from the Father....the spirit of truth. Love continues to guide us, through the Holy Spirit. As Jesus said elsewhere, I will not leave you alone, but I will send the advocate for you. A plan of Salvation, that only a great and loving God could create.

Thank you, Eduard! I love the gospel of John. We all need to be reminded of these things, which we know, but we sometimes take for granted, and lose sight of how incredibly thankful we should be and how blessed we are. He chose us.....we did not chose Him. We all have a tremendous calling on our lives....to be fruitful for the Kingdom.

D.

:dsunny:

[Ross]

Vs 15  "I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you."


Key little concept.
Paul talks about this to the Romans in 8 when making the point about knowing our Father and calling Him Father because we are joint heirs with Christ.
Joint heirs is one statement that blows away the position of a servant.
Christ demonstrated that He did not let His position make Him arrogant, but the security gave Him the attitude of love that does things for others without holding back.
The bond-servants seems to the attitude when under the law.
The grace releases us from the bondage- out of Egypt- and enhances what Christ did for us.
Romans 9, 10, 11 explains that purpose well.

*  A servant does not know what his master is thinking because he is not of the same value as a child of the master. So does not get shared with at the same level.
Christ fulfilled the law so as to give us that position as sons God.
vs 16 " You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you "
We do not get to choose our earthly dad, so we do not get to choose our Father.
Again drives home the real reason for Christ and the magnitude of the plan for mankind.

[Lazarus Short]

1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.

Laz sees here more parallelism in thought:

Pruned fruitful vine versus cut off unfruitful vine.  Fruitful/unfruitful branches in US.

Stored wheat versus chaff blown away by the wind.  Wheat & chaff parts of the same seed - US.

Stored wheat versus burned tares.  The real US and the counterfeit US.

Unburned gold, silver, and jewels versus burned wood, hay, and stubble.  What remains in US after refining.

Sheep in the sheepfold versus goats turned out into the wilderness.  Sheep & goat nations, sheep & goat US.

Expressed in different ways in hope that the light will come on, in US.  Yet most put an us-versus-them spin on the Word so they can point the finger at their personal enemies, not realizing that the real enemy is within each of US.  :punish: :declare:

[Seth]

I think the teaching is linked to Matthew 7:23 "and I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, ye who work iniquity.'" I believe there is a teaching quality to the experience of a period of exile, and the self destruction it brings, that produced the peaceable fruit of righteousness in Israel for a time, until latter generations forgot Him again.

I think that is what the fire of John 15 represents and how it brings a rebellious mind into repentance and eventual peace.