Just wondering again

[micah7:9]

Gen 3:16 And to the woman He says, "Multiplying, yea, multiplying am I your grief and the groaning of your pregnancy. In grief shall you bear sons. "Yet by your husband is your restoration, and he shall rule over you. (CLV)

Gen 3:16  Unto the woman He said, `Multiplying I multiply thy sorrow and thy conception, in sorrow dost thou bear children, and toward thy husband is thy desire, and he doth rule over thee.' (YLT)

Gen. 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy pain and thy conception; in pain thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. (ASV)

If I may ask, does this verse read that He (Lord God) already had it in His plan that woman would have  "had" pain in child birth, before eating the forbidden fruit? And that it would be increased(greatly) now and in the future?   
I find it interesting that He would chastise the woman who(m) He made  to bear children, and that the way He would use to correct her, was MORE pain than original.  Or am I off base?

Also I am told that the woman is the "soul" and that it is this soul that is the driving force of man. That it is the soul/woman that must come around. If this be true, why does it say that...
"and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."(ASV)
"Yet by your husband is your restoration, and he shall rule over you. (CLV)
thy husband is thy desire, and he doth rule over thee.' (YLT)

If it is the soul/woman is the force or appettite?

[Taffy]

 :2c: for those who may benefit

3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy pain and thy conception; in pain thou shalt bring forth children[a) son, male child]; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

The woman is eve-our soul who rebelled- :icon_flower:
this verse is reference to the CHILDBEARING of the WOMAN who was told to be Silent--= saved BY CHILBEARING

Paul mentions TRAVAIL, UNTIL the LORD is FORMED in them-- travail is childbirth and the pangs thereof-

paraphased-- there will be MUCH pain and sorrow Birthing the SON within your WOMB= MIND= eve

"Yet by your husband is your restoration, and he shall rule over you.


who is the HUSBAND? its Christ -who shall restore the SOUL\eve and HE shall RULE over you- as IS the same AS THE WOMAN\EVE subject to the man\Christ = HIS CHURCH--- :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

its mentioned here too
mans soul\mind is the murderer, the theif and liars- Hence all men are liars

For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, [and] the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, [that] bewaileth herself, [that] spreadeth her hands, [saying], Woe [is] me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.

Jer 22:23   O inhabitant of Lebanon, that makest thy nest in the cedars, how gracious shalt thou be when pangs come upon thee, the pain as of a woman in travail


And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 


Rev 12:2   And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.   :icon_flower:


and then JOHN nails it-

Jhn 16:21   A woman[ YOUR EVE] when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. yehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa- ptl :icon_flower:

[micah7:9]

What has that have to do with my post? :sigh:
There is much "doctrine" and "so it is" in your posts. It is not my goal to disprove anyone on this forum, I just cannot see all the stuff that is given as the answer to some questions.
Yes I have a pet peeve you may say when I read about soul stuff. And the spiritual bodies. And about death. I may seem harsh in my words in my post or my response, but is not my intention, its me....am i the finished product?..NO.....
which means I am being, to use the phrase "re-worked" by the Potter I believe I am a product of a continual rework, I aint proud of it either, maybe I should be
I know we are all seeking the same thing. There are many of us all over the world. We love Jesus and it is the deisre that He has inputed to us to worship Him in spirit and truth. I want you and the forum to know that I love and respect our quest, but other than Jesus being the resurrected Saviour to the world(kosmos) and to the enduring ages, I do not believe any of us have what we seek, and I believe that we all KNOW IN PART.
Jabcat has stated this more than once...
1Co 13:12  For we see, as yet, through a dim window, obscurely, but, then, face to face: as yet, I gain knowledge, in part, but, then, shall I fully know, even as I was also fully known.
1Co 13:13  But, now abide—faith, hope, love,—these three; but, the greatest of these, is, love.

[Taffy]

What has that have to do with my post?

EVERYTHING brother- be blessed--- :icon_flower:

[Taffy]

you posed a question Micah- al i did was repond-- nothing more--- if your done withit--- again be blessed- :HeartThrob:

BUT [please dont BARK my head off eveytime one mentions the soul and carnal mind--- it goes BOTH ways Brother------

[micah7:9]

Then I should think, I would be done with studying and reading and praying, but I aint. This here is my situation, just because someone who is or has a following says this is the intupretation of thus and I dont see it, then I am without. I cant accept that.  Ive been around that kind of people of over 40 years its called sects, denominations..well just plain old religion. Just where or how did YOU come across this nugget you have set in stone? Jhn 16:21   A woman[ YOUR EVE]

Deny this with scripture bro. and show me the scripture that says that woman/eve/ is the soul.

Gen 2:7  So then Yahweh God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed in his nostrils the breath of life—and man became a living soul.

[Taffy]

Then I should think, I would be done with studying and reading and praying, but I aint. This here is my situation, just because someone who is or has a following says this is the intupretation of thus and I dont see it, then I am without. I cant accept that.  Ive been around that kind of people of over 40 years its called sects, denominations..well just plain old religion. Just where or how did YOU come across this nugget you have set in stone? Jhn 16:21   A woman[ YOUR EVE]

Deny this with scripture bro. and show me the scripture that says that woman/eve/ is the soul.

Gen 2:7  So then Yahweh God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed in his nostrils the breath of life—and man became a living soul.

wheres the NUGGET that says hell ISNT Burning in some fabled pit..as folk see only the literasl and interpret that way--- same thing---- They too would call you a NUT as they do-- BECUASE the BIBLE clearly states cutting off arms etc-- PARDES- look it up..its been known for centuries even Paul-- if you havent heard of it-- is that MY fault---

[micah7:9]

The meaning of the hell itself dispells the thought.  Should a person(soul) have it in their mind and thinking that hell is that place that christianity says it is, then I would say they would hold to it like a kid with his chunk of candy.

[Taffy]

Gen 2:7  So then Yahweh God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed in his nostrils the breath of life—and man became a living soul.

then READ

the soul of man is his emotions, his Mind\Thought\will\chioce and desire\Intent
or are you animal.. who by NATURE lives  by INSTINCT----
soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion

a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man

b) living being

c) living being (with life in the blood)

d) the man himself, self, person or individual

e) seat of the appetites

f) seat of emotions and passions

g) activity of mind

1) dubious

h) activity of the will

1) dubious

i) activity of the character

1) dubious

[Taffy]

breath

a) the breath of life

1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing

a) of animals

b) of men

b) life

c) that in which there is life

1) a living being, a living soul

2) the soul

a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)

b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life

c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

[Taffy]

we are BEING created in HIS image not that of a COW or serpent or lion--   theres distinct difference between the LIVING soul being a MAN then an animal---as I bang my head o again on the key board

[Taffy]

And His image is?

man and female United--- which is SPIRIT AND SOUL  BEING ONE again shown as paul says the pattern of the CHURCH---

what on EARTH do you think needs to be in submission? if not our SOUL= mind heart==  the promise of the NC is a NEW"""HEART""and a NEW ""MIND2 what is that if not our SOUL

[micah7:9]

And His image is?
All of the meanings of soul that you set forth are are true, when understood from the NT, but that is not the first meaning of the word. My only arguement if you will, is that if we do not start from the very first use of a word then we lose the actual meaning of it. Man does not have a soul, is not given a soul, and the soul (person/mankind) dies.

[micah7:9]

I truly believe that when the word soul (if it was used originally) in the NT was understood as the emotions and appetites of the flesh. It, soul had no entity as we today.

[Taffy]

And His image is?
Man does not have a soul, is not given a soul, and the soul (person/mankind) dies.

if im reading aright??????? TO that I agree bro-- its the SPIRIT hwich gives life to it----- if you consider that the spirit is life then it GIVES life to our THOUGHTS when we BIRTH them-- they go hand in hand--- so one could say if you HAD evil thought as did the pharisees who resisted the TRUTH they birthed DEMONS, anti christs  etc--- a SPIRIT  clearly defined is what gives LIFE------ and thats what happened to adams MIND shown as EVE bro -she BIRTHED a THOUGHT creating the carnal mind which paul calls DEATH and enmity----hence agai the mind renewed

[micah7:9]

Gen 3:20  And the man calleth his wife's name Eve: for she hath been mother of all living.

Living H2416 chay chay  From H2421; alive; hence raw (flesh) H2421  châyâh  to live, whether literally or figuratively
This life, living,  comes from the very breath of life that was breathed into the dust of the ground.
I reason then that the life of Gen.2:7 is continued with Gen.3:20. This life is the dying that was produced from Gen 2:17 "--dying thou dost die.'"

I, personally believe that this "life" we are speaking of is no more that than the "dying thou dost die" life.
We, all are souls(mankind,persons, human beings) dying and from Gen.2:7 through Gen.2:17 mankind comes from Gen.3:20 the bond of the whole family.

Souls die....yet the flesh and carnal desires that were ignited through Gen 3:6  And the woman seeth that the tree is good for food, and that it is pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make one wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;
This is our journey our trek our race UNTIL He draws or drags mankind to His Will.

[micah7:9]

I only hope that we are on the same quest, with out prejudice. That our disagreements to not end as those three fellas in the "Treasure of the Serria Madrae" they all soulght the same thing gold, and they worked together, until they found the gold...... then .....thats when the disputes and troubles came over who was to get the most or who found it, the same old thing that human beings do, cause it is in the genes.

[micah7:9]

This is how I can understand Genesis. Man was caused to be in a deep sleep from that sleep, we read a woman was made, I see this woman as the mind of man awakening. Prior to this man was a husbandman(farmer) and intellectual enough to name all the other creatures. But not one of these was the mate that man in his two abilites..a farmer and a namer of anamils.
This is just me...when man awoke, his thinking was antimated it had action. You can call this "soul" but lets not forget that man is a living soul, I reason that the woman was an awakening for the purpose and plan that God had set forth. In my own mind I do not see the man and the woman as seperate enities until Gen 3:7  and the eyes of them both are opened, and they know that they are naked, and they sew fig-leaves, and make to themselves girdles.
This is a thought.

[micah7:9]

I am going to hit the hay.
I love you and care for all of you, and all you have to say. I am but a pilgrim, I am on a walk of discovery of truths that bring life, just as you.
As far as I can tell and know, nothing that we have found to this day is "SO."
We all await the revealing. We all await the fullness of what we believe. We are all but apart.....dig in...and dont be selfish. :HeartThrob:

[Taffy]

I only hope that we are on the same quest, with out prejudice. That our disagreements to not end as those three fellas in the "Treasure of the Serria Madrae" they all soulght the same thing gold, and they worked together, until they found the gold...... then .....thats when the disputes and troubles came over who was to get the most or who found it, the same old thing that human beings do, cause it is in the genes.

:HeartThrob:

[Taffy]

This is how I can understand Genesis. Man was caused to be in a deep sleep from that sleep, we read a woman was made, I see this woman as the mind of man awakening. Prior to this man was a husbandman(farmer) and intellectual enough to name all the other creatures. But not one of these was the mate that man in his two abilites..a farmer and a namer of anamils.
This is just me...when man awoke, his thinking was antimated it had action. You can call this "soul" but lets not forget that man is a living soul, I reason that the woman was an awakening for the purpose and plan that God had set forth. In my own mind I do not see the man and the woman as seperate enities until Gen 3:7  and the eyes of them both are opened, and they know that they are naked, and they sew fig-leaves, and make to themselves girdles.
This is a thought.

ADAM/EVE were ONE [male and female-] until a deep SLEEP (ignorance- ) came upon MANKIND.

The SPIRIT OF GOD (ADAM) and the SOUL OF MAN (EVE) were SEPERATED –WITHIN THE GARDEN (US).

eve then is shown to be the MIND\soul of ADAM birthing the carnal mind -

EVE is the MOTHER of ALL living - with in HER womb [ HER MIND] lshe would bear TWO sons-- the FIRST after the seed of the seRpent being CARNAL MAN\MIND the second shown as the SPIRITUAL man \the MIND of Christ

Consider
the pattern is repeated- :icon_flower:- showing the Spiritual Mind will prevail over the First= carnal mind

Gen 25:21 Isaac pleaded with the LORD on behalf of his wife, because she was unable to have children. The LORD answered Isaac's prayer, and Rebekah became pregnant with twins. 


Gen 25:22 But the two children struggled with each other in her womb. So she went to ask the LORD about it. "Why is this happening to me?" she asked. 


Gen 25:23 And the LORD told her, "The sons in your womb will become two nations. From the very beginning the two nations will be rivals. One nation will be stronger than the other; and your older son will serve your younger son." 

SELAh   :HeartThrob: