I don't think I do enough for Christ

[Andromeda_Organa]

I've been thinking, and I don't think I do enough for Christ. I've helped out at  Bible school, explained what Christians REALLY believe to many of my non believing friends, written stories opposing sexism and racism that I've sent out, and try to be kind to people, but I can be bitter at times and get angry easily. I also am very focused on my writing, hanging out with friends, studies, and video games.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I've been thinking, and I don't think I do enough for Christ. I've helped out at  Bible school, explained what Christians REALLY believe to many of my non believing friends, written stories opposing sexism and racism that I've sent out, and try to be kind to people, but I can be bitter at times and get angry easily. I also am very focused on my writing, hanging out with friends, studies, and video games.

What do you expect to happen if you do more for Christ?

[Nathan]

Righteousness doesn't come to you by what you do.  You are a king and a priest because that is what is proclaimed over you by the Spirit.  Your eyes can only see the natural things, don't be fooled by your eyes or your mind.  Walk in faith . . .believe in what you can't see . .accept what you don't fully understand.  If God took the pain of sending his Son for you . .surely there is something in you that he sees that you're over looking.  Let him take you through the process of transformation.  It's got lots of highs, and it's got lots of lows . .and in the end, you would never recognize yourself because your self is what is being transformed into the likeness and glory of Him.  It's not according to what you see . .but who you are.

None of us will ever be able to live up to the standards of men . .be it a church or my own personal standards.  That's just the nature of our carnality.  God's not mad at you for being what he created.  Don't let your mind bring you into bondage.  

[Andromeda_Organa]

I've been thinking, and I don't think I do enough for Christ. I've helped out at  Bible school, explained what Christians REALLY believe to many of my non believing friends, written stories opposing sexism and racism that I've sent out, and try to be kind to people, but I can be bitter at times and get angry easily. I also am very focused on my writing, hanging out with friends, studies, and video games.

What do you expect to happen if you do more for Christ?

KLess Bad things will happen to me.

[Nathan]

Less Bad things will happen to me

Not so sure that's a true statement . . . You may want to rethink that one.  I do good things because there has been a transformation in me to cause me to do them.  But to do them "because" I don't want bad things to happen isn't living in life, it's living by law.

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

[alihaymeg]

You will get a lot of advice on this subject. Most of it will be encouraging you to rest in the assurance of life in Christ. I agree that you can rest in the assurance that we are all pre-ordained to end up being recconciled to God. But, I believe it is folly to assume that we are not responsible for purging ourselves of the influence of this world. That is where the journey must begin. You should look inside yourself for the work that needs to be done. As you grow closer to that perfection that is in Christ, the situations in which you are to minister will become obvious.

Nathan is absolutely right. The truth of the word cannot return void, and it was a non-Christian who finally said the words that led me to the truth about rewards and punishment. He said ,Why not just do it because it is right?"
"Why be concerned about the rewards?"

That is now one of the major rules I live by. Do it because it is right and stop worying about the rewards and punishment.

8:1 [ Greek Font Size: – / + | Toggle Font ] [ View in: BYZ / TR | Side-by-side | Greek Lexical Parser ]
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk (5723) not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Why are we able to avoid condemnation? Because we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit.

[Andromeda_Organa]

Less Bad things will happen to me

Not so sure that's a true statement . . . You may want to rethink that one.  I do good things because there has been a transformation in me to cause me to do them.  But to do them "because" I don't want bad things to happen isn't living in life, it's living by law.

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Ok, thanks for that. I had forgotten that verse. :) I went to a legalistic church that said if you did God's will, nothing bad would happen to you, yet at the same time, that if you weren't suffering you weren't in God's will. No wonder I'm so messed up

[alihaymeg]

Just remember that He is a loving father, not a bloodthirsty tyrant waiting for you to screw up so He can punish you.

[jabcat]

Just remember that He is a loving father, not a bloodthirsty tyrant waiting for you to screw up so He can punish you.

IMO, that's part of the ET mindset, at least the one in which I was raised.  Some of the self-talk here then are things like "I've got to work to win God's favor"...and "if I can work hard enough and be good enough, maybe I'll stay saved and make it to heaven"...and that infamous song I posted about in the past, "God's Gon'na Get'cha For That"  :mshock:. 

We are to live for Him, make the choices that are pleasing to Him...but that's out of love and through His empowerment as we yield ourselves to Him...I can't do it on my own...And if I could, then my own "righteousness" would be filthy rags anyway, right?  Trying to do it outside the mercy and grace of the Master.  Won't work.  And I ought'a know...I'm an expert at trying.. :BangHead:.

God's blessing, James.

[alihaymeg]

You can do it with His help though. All those scriptures that tell us to be holy still apply. The only difference is that they are not talking about ways to avoid Hell or attain Heaven. They are telling us how to be included in the remnant that will judge the world in the next age. All will be perfected eventually; a few now and the rest in subsequent ages. That's the whole point in being here. That is how we will become like God; by knowing evil and overcoming it.

[WhiteWings]

IMO, that's part of the ET mindset, at least the one in which I was raised.  Some of the self-talk here then are things like "I've got to work to win God's favor"...and "if I can work hard enough and be good enough,

That's not just ET. That the whole world vision. If it's free there must be a catch. If it's good I can't afford it.
When I pick up the phone and on the other end someone starts with "Sir, I have a marvelous free gift for you" I know it's gonna cost me plenty.
I think people project the earthly way of things on how the spiritual things work.
What God is giving me a golden house in Heaven? What's the catch.
I think such reasoning is part of ET.

[alihaymeg]

Absolutely! :thumbsup:

[Nathan]

It's a little sad how we allow some things to come into us that later on in our lives those things become our worst enemy.  I'm not sure the logic really fits.  I must be always spending energy and time in "doing" things so that I can live in blessing . . .while at the same time, if those blessings come, it's a sign that I'm not working hard enough because I'm not experiencing pain and sorrow??  How crazy is that?

In quoting that verse about having tribulation, I don't mean to say that we're to look for tribulation and focus on it . . .actually, the message was not that we're to have tribulation, but that we're to be of good cheer as Christ has overcome the world. . .the flesh . .. so "walking in the flesh" I will have tribulation, but BE OF GOOD CHEER Christ has overcome the flesh.

One of the major points of Jesus message was instilling peace into the hearts of men.  His yoke is "easy", his burden is "light" if anyone is thirsty Come and you will find plenty to drink.  To all who are weary, come and in Him you will find rest.  Men measure with reasoning and labor.  God measures us by our faith in Christ and relationship with Christ.

Paul says I can do anything I want . .men will tell you, you can't do a lot of things.  But Paul says you can do anything you want . . . but not all things are beneficial.  All things have consequence.  However, if you are pursuing Christ in your quest for achieving the wants, he will transform your mind to want only that which is beneficial.  But it's not left up to us what specifically that is, which is why it becomes a dangerous road for those to start laying out what is and what isn't good. 

"All" men have the knowledge of good and evil instilled in them through the DNA of our first Adam.  That is the source of the awareness that we are naked.  God didn't put that in us, the the tree of knowing did.  God has cleared the way for us to return back to our original state through Christ.  People come to Christ with great joy, but they also carry with them things that were passed on to them from knowing, not from life.   

In rereading your first message on this thread, I get all knotted up just thinking about it.  Who told you that you're not doing enough for Christ?  Who told you that it's up to you to "do" anything?  There is a caption I would love to put out on a sign in front of our church . . ."It is impossble to live for Jesus"  I even have this t-shirt that says "Jesus died for me" on one side and "I'll live for him" on the other.  But in truth, we don't have it in us to live for God.  We're just vessels . .we are temples created for him to live IN us, rather than to have to live "for" him.  There's a huge differnce.

One is out of labor and effort of man, the other is out of the love of God.  Scripture even says that the only way to please God is not by doing . . but simply by believing in the one through whom everything is already done!  It's a much more rewarding life to live freely "in" him, than to be conformed to living "for" him.

[alihaymeg]

Yes.

     What are often missed are the following:
1. We cannot be holy on our own (as supported by scripture)

2. But we now have the Holy Spirit who came after Christ ascended. He makes our spirit alive and gives us the ability to become perfected.

3. It is not forced upon us. The goal is achieved by both our soul and the spirit of God within us. (It is a group effort and requires our cooperation)

[Nancy]

Hi there Andromeda_Org,

As i not reading my bible at the moment, i feel that i'm letting God down! My father used to make me stand in front of him and say my mutiplication tables out loud and boy if i got it wrong, if looks could kill.  I used to wish i was dead! So i think i see God as a bigger version of my father.
If we are only made right by what we do, then Christ died for nothing!
Godbless
Nancy

[Andromeda_Organa]

If we are only made right by what we do, then Christ died for nothing!
Godbless
Nancy

Thanks! I didn't have abusive parents, but I got abused at school and church, so for awhile I saw God as that.

[martincisneros]

I commend anyone that's wanting to assume their responsibilities as a maturing son/daughter of God.  It's always good to start getting about the Father's business.  The Gospel from Romans to Philemon is a Gospel of Obedience.  But as others have pointed out, there aren't many brownie points for doing what you're supposed to do, so that's why St. Paul was constantly adding to his own work load.  He said that if he was only doing what was commanded of him, then where was the reward in that?  To me, that's indicating there's none for only doing what He tells you to do, just on the level that He's telling you to do it.  But when you do more and even absorb the expense of a few things, which St. Paul took too far and deeply apologized to the Corinthian Church for not having received offerings from them.  He then said, but I'm not going to burden you, which was both a tongue in cheek and a "you don't have to cough up more than any of the other congregations have."  People refer to Christ's sense of humor in the Gospels but completely miss Paul's.

He said he wasn't speaking by commandment along those lines, but if they really were advancing in all of the graces of God, then they were to advance in that grace of both giving and receiving as well.  The New Testament pattern is to work for Christ AS THOUGH the weight of the whole world were upon your shoulders, but to keep absolutely all of the cares of all of it and of everyone cast upon Him.  When you carry the cares of any of it, there is no reward.  We live on this side of the Crucifixion; the Resurrection side.  Our heavenly Father's supposed to carry our Cross daily 'cause we're under grace and not under law.  When we choose to carry it, then we've wandered into the unsavoury parts of Hebrews 10.  Mark 4 says that the cares of this world entering into and cluttering the heart choke the Word and it becomes unfruitful. 

1Peter 5:6-7 say to keep every care cast upon Him and 2Corinthians 10 says that this is a part of the weapons of our warfare in Christ: casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of the Word of God, bringing every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.  It says in verse 6 that that completes/fulfills our obedience, and then God starts avenging each situation where our lives aren't yet reflecting a completed work at the Cross.  That's when the healings start, that's when the money starts flowing freely, that's when the Lord's your defender, etc.  Our worries become a vice that choke out the life of God.  Whatever you focus on, you start multiplying.  So, the Scriptures teach to engage in warfare to recapture every thought and to keep every care cast upon Him.  As you've received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, according to Colossians 2:6-7 with doing your best to overdose on thanksgiving.

First you need the knowledge of the Word and of the Promises by which you become a partaker of the divine nature, then you need the overdosed thanksgiving in order to enter in, and then when thanksgiving based upon the exceeding great and precious promises has cast out all fear, then you begin to simply do those things that the Lord places upon your heart.  And with every care cast upon Him you've entered into the supernatural existence where bread and wine multiplies, etc.

[jabcat]

You can do it with His help though. All those scriptures that tell us to be holy still apply. The only difference is that they are not talking about ways to avoid Hell or attain Heaven. They are telling us how to be included in the remnant that will judge the world in the next age. All will be perfected eventually; a few now and the rest in subsequent ages. That's the whole point in being here. That is how we will become like God; by knowing evil and overcoming it.

Yep, that's why I said this; We are to live for Him, make the choices that are pleasing to Him...but that's out of love and through His empowerment as we yield ourselves to Him...I can't do it on my own...I'll also add, I can only do this by looking to Him, experiencing Him living through me...because if it's just about me trying to figure it out, be good enough, etc., then I can in essence leave Christ out of the equation...then it's "no more grace, but works"...Jesus died so I might live...if my effort and works were enough, He wouldn't have needed to do so  :thumbsup:

[martincisneros]

As i not reading my bible at the moment, i feel that i'm letting God down!

Just cast the care of that over on Him, according to 1Peter 5:6-7. :cloud9:

[alihaymeg]

Yep, that's why I said this; We are to live for Him, make the choices that are pleasing to Him...but that's out of love and through His empowerment as we yield ourselves to Him...I can't do it on my own...I'll also add, I can only do this by looking to Him, experiencing Him living through me...because if it's just about me trying to figure it out, be good enough, etc., then I can in essence leave Christ out of the equation...then it's "no more grace, but works"...Jesus died so I might live...if my effort and works were enough, He wouldn't have needed to do so 

Absolutely!

     I didn't mean to sound like I was saying that we are to do it on our own steam. No way! We can't. But through the power of the Holy spirit we can.

[jabcat]

Great!  I just  know this very well by trying it for so many years, and failing miserably :surrender:.  God's blessing, James.

[Reverend G]

Odd topic!! First...I don't think any of us can "do enough".  BUT..that which we do for the least of our brothers......
Lastly...it is better to feel you fall short, than to be smugly thinking you do more than what is required.

[Nathan]

Hebrews 11
6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


Hebrews 10
1 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.

Galatians 2
16nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Romans 3
20because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Acts 13
39and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

[alihaymeg]

So as not to be misunderstood:

Justification is by faith. There are no works that can justify a person.

This is a totally seperate issue than becoming perfected in His love.

So when your not feeling worthy it seems your in a better place then the one who is feeling quite deserving

Exactly! It is when we are broken like pieces on the rock that we draw near to Him.
Pride goes before a fall.

We are on the same page regarding justification, but justification by faith is not the end of the story.
That is done, finished, complete, unchageable, and unwavering.

Moving on to a totally seperate issue:
Sanctification comes through obedience to the Holy Spirit. When we sense His presence with us 24-7, it becomes more dificult to drag Him into the dark places that we often visit when we are not aware of Him.
That is walking in the spirit. That is allowing Him to guide our every descision. You can listen to the flesh and let that direct your paths. Or, you can listen to the Holy Spirit and allow Him to guide your paths.

The two seperate topics are often blended into one when we interpret the Biblical texts, but they are seperate issues. That is where a lot of the confusion that has led to the doctrine of ET has come from.

[rosered]

 HI ALL ,

  you  all have brought up some great points on this  work  that  makes one feel  complete and or lacking  in faith ,,

I looked up redemtion  and it seems to say   being saved  by an act of  being bought or sold  , we are bought for a price , it is the blood of Jesus we become his" property"  we than feel obligated as a slave  no longer to sin , but to Christ   , but to me the worrk of God though Jesus Christ IS  to make us sons of God and not slaves any longer 
  we than do what we can because we LOVE  HIM , not out of obligation
  but love that is the key factor to me in the difference of that Paul was preaching to us  , because I  went to look into righteousness , and we know our  righteousness is filthy rags  , Jesus Chrits rightousesness  is clean white linens  ,. being clothed in Christ is the  ability to know what God has done  by faith in Him , not of ourselves
  well when i went to righteounesess  it went straight to justification !!!

  that sesm to be the Holy Spirits working in us , to complete and perfect us in this Love of God  , A LOVE  from Him and from us to Him  , though Jesus Christ the SEED/WORD OF GOD  that cleanses us from all unrighteouesness  /filth of the flesh
  for His works are of the Spirit and Life  and work bringing others to God  though Christ  the annointing of the     Fahthers grace /gift of mercy    that is  the  acceptible  sacrifice   offered to  be clean and holy enough  to work!!! do the job well done ......the Law made nothing perfect , but the greace and mercy of God [ Jesus Christs blood ] does  make perfectt and complete ..


Main Entry: jus·ti·fi·ca·tion
Pronunciation: "j&s-t&-f&-'kA-sh&n
Function: noun
1 : the act or an instance of justifying
2 : something that justifies; specifically : a legally sufficient reason or cause (as self-defense) for an act that would otherwise be criminal or tortious
3 : the affirmative defense of having a legally sufficient justification —compare EXCUSE


Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
Cite This Source
Justification

Jus`ti*fi*ca"tion\, n. [L. justificatio: cf. F. justification. See Justify.]

1. The act of justifying or the state of being justified; a showing or proving to be just or conformable to law, justice, right, or duty; defense; vindication; support; as, arguments in justification of the prisoner's conduct; his disobedience admits justification.

I hope, for my brother's justification, he wrote this but as an essay or taste of my virtue. --Shak.

2. (Law) The showing in court of a sufficient lawful reason why a party charged or accused did that for which he is called to answer.

3. (Theol.) The act of justifying, or the state of being justified, in respect to God's requirements.

Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification. --Rom. iv. 25.

In such righteousness To them by faith imputed, they may find Justification toward God, and peace Of conscience. --Milton.

4. (Print.) Adjustment of type by spacing it so as to make it exactly fill a line, or of a cut so as to hold it in the right place; also, the leads, quads, etc., used for making such adjustment.


Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
Cite This Source
Justification

a forensic term, opposed to condemnation. As regards its nature, it is the judicial act of God, by which he pardons all the sins of those who believe in Christ, and accounts, accepts, and treats them as righteous in the eye of the law, i.e., as conformed to all its demands. In addition to the pardon (q.v.) of sin, justification declares that all the claims of the law are satisfied in respect of the justified. It is the act of a judge and not of a sovereign. The law is not relaxed or set aside, but is declared to be fulfilled in the strictest sense; and so the person justified is declared to be entitled to all the advantages and rewards arising from perfect obedience to the law (Rom. 5:1-10). It proceeds on the imputing or crediting to the believer by God himself of the perfect righteousness, active and passive, of his Representative and Surety, Jesus Christ (Rom. 10:3-9). Justification is not the forgiveness of a man without righteousness, but a declaration that he possesses a righteousness which perfectly and for ever satisfies the law, namely, Christ's righteousness (2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 4:6-8). The sole condition on which this righteousness is imputed or credited to the believer is faith in or on the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith is called a "condition," not because it possesses any merit, but only because it is the instrument, the only instrument by which the soul appropriates or apprehends Christ and his righteousness (Rom. 1:17; 3:25, 26; 4:20, 22; Phil. 3:8-11; Gal. 2:16). The act of faith which thus secures our justification secures also at the same time our sanctification (q.v.); and thus the doctrine of justification by faith does not lead to licentiousness (Rom. 6:2-7). Good works, while not the ground, are the certain consequence of justification (6:14; 7:6). (See GALATIANS, EPISTLE TO.)