How To Treat Others

[rrich7]

Often we have questions of how to deal with other sinners (seems mainly people focus on homosexuals). Maybe that's an E.T left over? I say that because Christians seems to have a "need" to point out homosexuality more than some other sins or seem to have the hardest time dealing with it.

I think at times we take it upon ourselves to do the correcting. We (when I say this I just speak generally) feel it is our job as Christians to point out other people's sinfulness & tell them how wrong they are, why they are wrong & how they should correct it.

Well, if we do this, no matter how 'nice' its said, we come off rather judgy. I believe that Paul said & I'm paraphrasing, that if one of our members of the church slip up, we should correct them (correct me if I'm wrong), but I don't think that stood for our brothers & sisters not yet in the church. We are all here to correct & support each other in Christ, however when it comes to someone who has not yet come to the knowledge of the good news I believe its important we take a different approach & here is why.

    They are not unlike us, with the exception that our veil has become a little less obscure. They are human, born into sin, struggles, pain & suffering just as we are.  I believe we all agree that our life here is part of the learning process in becoming whole for Gods purpose to become all in all. Each of individual is on a path to correction, is it no surprise that our paths are all different but lead to the same end.   :dsunny: Some people struggle with certain sins more than others, whether it is the act of them or the temptation. Maybe each individual is subject to certain things so they get the learning experience necessary for their individual growth.

I say that to say, when we look at other people, we need to realize they are on the same journey but maybe just in a different place in their journey. I think that is why it is important to try our best not to judge & show lots of love! We can't know their hearts, only God knows them. We only know what we see, but we don't know the path that led them their or the struggles that they have faced/are facing. The love & light that shines exudes from within us should be enough to help give comfort to the hurt, the struggling & the lost. The last thing they need is a sermon on their sin which only leaves them feeling more horrible. What they need is a little love.

Our duty to them is to love them & simply plant the seed. God's job to water it, prune it, enhance it, & everything else that follows.


In the words of Julie,

Don't forget love !  :HeartThrob:

:friendstu:

[micah7:9]

In a word, Good :dsunny:

[ed]

One thing that I noticed is that Christ loved me even in the midst of my sin.

I enjoy loving people.  All people.  It is a bummer to be judging all the time.  The woman caught in adultery did not get judged by Jesus, but he did say "go and sin no more".

Homosexuality is specifically mentioned as a sin that "does not inherit the kingdom of God".  Does this mean that homosexuals can not know God at all?  I struggle with that.  The Gay people that I have known have been wonderful people.  I choose to not judge it.  I choose to love.  I am judged by the book when I say that and know it. 

God loves the perishing.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

To my knowledge Jesus never addressed sexual sin.  Is it trivial?  Not according to the law.  Not according to Paul.

Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Verse like the one above have always been my help.  My personal walk with Christ is what matters.  Is there such a thing as a gay believer?

I was thinking about this the other day and asked my wife if she thought that Gays could be Christians.  Her response was "why would they want to be?"

I had to laugh.

[rrich7]

Well Ed,

Any sin leaves all of mankind un-able to inherit the kingdom of God based on the bible. It is only by God's grace that we are healed (& thank Him that we all will be), I don't see this as any different. I see there's a lot of scriptures like this that seem absolute that if one does (x,y,z) he cannot inherit the kingdom (this wasn't only mentioned in reference to homosexuality).

1 Corinthians 6:9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God?

John 3:5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:3 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

When Jesus said go & sin no more, I think most of us take that in a very literal sense, meaning very literally be without sin. Well that is not possible in our current state. Even in 'christianity' we struggle with sin or even the temptation of it & I think this is where we get caught up in 'don't sin, don't sin, don't sin.' We expect absolute perfection of ourselves & try to fight the urges ourselves & we become terribly discouraged when we fail. In this flesh it is not possible to be completely sinless because the flesh will always fight the spirit, but does that mean to just go & do as you please? No. We all stumble & fall, but we also feel that sting & gnawing of disappointment in ourselves & regret (which is good) but we should ask forgiveness & strive to do better. If we spend time dwelling on the sin too much our focus is lost.  What I've started to do is focus more on God & love & He begins making the changes so I begin to 'sin less'. 

I don't see a homosexual any differently than a liar, a cheater, a thief, ect, because in God's eyes we are all sinners in need of being saved.  Maybe we should learn to drop the labeling. We as humans place sins on a hierarchy, when sin is sin is sin. While the bible talks about different sins in many different ways, I don't see it saying 'This sin is greater than this, so be EXTRA careful not to do this one'. I do see it saying, If any man commits one, he commits them all.  God forgives ALL of it, so why do put certain sins as less 'harmless' than others? For example a lie is a lie, yet how many of us tell white lies & think of it as less than a lie. Its still a lie & even white lies hurt when the truth is revealed!  :laugh: :laugh: Or we say things like, "Even though I do this ["smaller"] sin at times, I don't struggle with this particular ["bigger seemingly worse"] sin" & we kind of look down on those that do. Sounds a lot like that Pharisee who looked down on that guy on the roadside. We humans are so silly in our reasoning. Could it be that we get too wrapped up in the sin & trying to be perfect & not enough in the loving that is the starting process to bring perfection?

I think the change begins once God starts to water that seed & the plant grows & it won't be fully complete until the veil is completely removed.  Even in our knowing God we are forever changing, forever growing, going through phases of stumbling, learning, stumbling, overcoming. Can a homosexual be a Christian?? OF COURSE! At least that is how it would begin, until God begins to move & make those changes in them.

The love is the start of the process, when we love someone we want to please them, so we try as best we can (within our ability to do so) & in this case, the being we love is sovereign & He is working around us & in us to perfect each & every one of us & the sinful nature we were subjected to; gay or not, a liar or not, an adulterer or not, a hateful bigoted racist, or not, a thief or not, a murderer or not etc.

I think the appropriate question is 'Can a sinner be a chrisitain?'

Well, we all know the answer to that don't we  :dsunny: :dsunny:

[ed]

John 4 is interesting as well.

7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)
9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.
10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.
16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.
17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:
18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.
19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
27 And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her?
28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

Thanks rr.

Most people are afraid to talk about this stuff.   

:thumbsup:

[rrich7]

Most people are afraid to talk about this stuff.   

:thumbsup:

They are! But we shouldn't be!  You know this one I'm not sure, I assume she is a "adulterer" of some sort, but I'm not suree. I think I'll read it over & pray on it & get back to ya. :)

[eaglesway]

If we see the soul inside the sin, whatever that may be, we see the jewel that Jesus died for, loved as it was before it was "righteous"- and can look right through the flesh to the spirit within. That spirit will be rained upon by the love of God, perhaps receive a seed that will germinate later on, perhaps not be so surprised to see the eyes of love awaiting at the throne.

[rrich7]

If we see the soul inside the sin, whatever that may be, we see the jewel that Jesus died for, loved as it was before it was "righteous"- and can look right through the flesh to the spirit within. That spirit will be rained upon by the love of God, perhaps receive a seed that will germinate later on, perhaps not be so surprised to see the eyes of love awaiting at the throne.

That was beautifully said & I actually needed to hear something that made my spirit smile!

:HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

I am more aware every day that grace is the oil in the gears of this great big machine Paul called, "an administration suitable to the completion of times, the gathering together into one of all things in Christ, whether things on earth or things in the heaven."

[rosered]

Over a year ago ,   all so beautifully said !  :HeartThrob:  Amen

[JonesHenry]

Jesus in general was neutral towards gay people. He basicly said that some people were "born that way"

http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/born_gay.html



The ET crowd started to claim that he meant so called "natural born eunuchs"

http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVanswers/2005/08-24.htm



This is a bit like the argument of Isiah vs Paul

"For, behold, Yahweh will come with fire,
and his chariots will be like the whirlwind;
to render his anger with fierceness,
and his rebuke with flames of fire.
For Yahweh will execute judgment by fire and by his sword on ALL FLESH;
and those slain by Yahweh will be many. "

Isiah 66:15-16



"I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that FLESH AND BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."

1 Corinthians 15:50



So wich one is right? Or are BOTH!?



Did Jesus just mean "natural born eunuchs" in general???

http://www.well.com/~aquarius/cardiff.htm



Who knows!? Anyway...this is what he had to say about marridge in heaven in general!


"But Jesus answered them, "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they NEITHER MARRY, nor are GIVEN IN MARRIDAGE but are like God's ANGELS IN HAVEN. But concerning the resurrection of the dead, haven't you read that which was spoken to you by God, saying,  'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?'God is not the God of the dead, but of the LIVING!"

Matthew 22:29-32



P.S:

Homosexuality is specifically mentioned as a sin that "does not inherit the kingdom of God".

Surdenly not in there SINFUL condition! However...

"Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city. OUTSIDE ARE THE DOGS the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. I, JESUS have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David; the Bright and Morning Star."

Revelation 22:12-16


7th day adventists argue they are being consumed and "dying" JESUS says at the END OF THE BOOK that they ARE still ALIVE outside the city!



So...what exactly is going to happen to them? Is Jesus and hes pals going to come out of the city to watch them burn a little while longer with marshmallows...or could this POSSIBLY have something to do with PURIFICATION!!?

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/basanizo.html

[rosered]

JH  :thumbsup:   When we focus on one thing, we  loose   our  balance  :HeartThrob:

Walking in the Spirit is  not letting our feet touch the dust of the earth any longer , its is all about  spreading the good news of the gosel of Jesus Christ and the Victory in   Him and come gather   in the Body of     Jesus  Jesus Christ to be    saved    and healed and   protected   , just as He  told Jerusalem  before that great  fall

   Gather you together    under His wings  like a mother hen  gathers her babies to protect them and die fighting for them   so they will live .    :angel5:

[Tom]

I disagree with the interpretation of eunuchs being homosexual and the false conclusion that Jesus said some people were born homosexual. I've said before that I know some people are born intersex due to some specific genetic configurations that most other people don't have, but that's different than somebody choosing a lover from the same gender. I also think Jesus was not talking about homosexuals when he spoke of eunuchs, and it's a mistake to think so regardless of who you are or what your credentials are. The Pharisees were always trying to trick Jesus into saying something that they could use against him, but he always managed to use their false teachings against them. I think Matthew 19:12 indicates the three types of eunuchs Jesus was referring to, and it's not intended to justify homosexual behavior by saying some were born eunuchs because a eunuch is something different than a homosexual person. I know because I really like girls and have been with a bunch of them, but I've made myself a eunuch figuratively speaking for spiritual optimization just as Jesus spoke about. It's not a vow or a permanent condition because I'm simply celibate at this time. I still have desire for woman, but I live alone right now. I've had several offers for a hookup, but so far I've managed to maintain my celibacy. I'm thinking about somebody on the forum recently bringing up the rumor about Origen castrating himself, and, like somebody else who mentioned that some folks say that was just something somebody said to bring him down, I doubt he did it because I think he was smart enough to know it wasn't necessary just to be celibate. It is a mental thing to abstain from sexual intercourse, but it's easier to do if you're inspired. When I was into Taoist philosophy and sexual practices, I learned it was considered beneficial for the male to resist ejaculation even during intercourse to preserve the yang energy and recirculate it in the body. There are actually benefits to celibacy, which is what I think Jesus was talking about when he said some people choose that themselves, but, in the Christian ideology, it's not a matter of optimizing male energy, but optimizing spiritual energy. The Taoist philosophy didn't talk about spirit, only that the universe was both yang and yin energy, male and female, positive and negative, day and night, what Zen also calls yang and yin, which is depicted in the symbol many people are familiar with. I got into these Asian philosophies while I was seeking the truth after I left the church when I was young. I tried psychedelic drugs first. The problem with these philosophies, as with all philosophies of man, is that they are shortsighted. Any philosophy of man assumes man can solve the problem of evil and achieve immortality through works such as meditation or whatever, but that misses the mark. Only God has the answer to the problem of evil and the way to immortality. Even Taoism calls itself the way, but it's not the true way. The true way and the truth and the life is through Jesus Christ to the Father. I think all the modern popular ideologies of the new age phenomena and ancient philosophies are all just counterfeits that are popular because they seem to give people a way to delve into the spirit realm without being accountable to God, but people who mess with them really don't know what they're getting into until it's too late sometimes. Satan is not the Hollywood caricature. Satan's most effective method of operation is deception. Satan appears as a messenger of light to lull people into a false sense of security through drugs and philosophies of man including some in church. It is only by the power of the holy spirit of God that you can find true love, joy and peace. That's why it's possible to experience love without a sexual partner. That's why eunuchs are not homosexuals, and that's also why those who have made themselves eunuchs are not homosexuals, but simply full of the love of God without sharing physical intimacy with another person of the opposite gender, which would be all right in the context of marriage, but it just isn't what's happening right now. So just like the bogus word "homophobia," as if we have something to be afraid of, the idea that Jesus justifies homosexuality by speaking about eunuchs is also ridiculous. I think Paul was inspired when he made it clear that homosexuality ain't cool. It is a confused sexual relationship that's not what God intended in the beginning when he made woman from man for them to be together because only the male female sexual relationship works practically. The exhaust pipe isn't the intake manifold guys. Check it out. Guys could poke anything when they're ready, but that doesn't mean you should. I saw a video in the news today of some knucklehead doing the deed with a Porsche. But it's supposed to be a sweet female who you're married to not anything else. A discussion could be had about what exactly constitutes a marriage, but that's another story. Boys and girls together is the way God wants it folks. Any other configuration is wacko. I agree that homosexuals should have civil rights, but I don't think that should include marriage because marriage is not just a civil union. It is a physical/spiritual union together with God. That's why, despite the fact that some churches are trying to be politically correct, homosexual marriage is not something God has ever sanctioned according to scripture. I'm not saying homosexual sin is worse than heterosexual adultery. That's up to God to judge, but it is sin according to God regardless of the political power behind it now. And regarding the post claiming so, I disagree that Jesus was talking about homosexual behavior when he spoke of eunuchs.     

[Caffus]

Very important post Rich! I agree..we definitely need to show more love. None of us is perfect in this life. We are not under the letter of the law that brings death, hate and division. We who are in the Spirit have His law of grace and love written in our haerts. Jesus said, Judge not least you be judged.  We are not to reject eachother, we are to love. I have seen some posts on this site that would be very painful for a Christian homosexual to read and I pray for that attitude of judgementalism and exclusion to be done away with. Replace it with respect and love. Pray for others all you want God might just change your heart as well.  :HeartThrob:

[Tom]

"For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: 'You shall love your associate as yourself.'" (Galatians 5:14)

[sheila]

..the mere fact that sin dwells in our flesh..is an unholy union and spiritual adultery against God..[God made man[adam] for His

  spirit to dwell in...so in reality...all in the first Adam/corrupt image is the woman caught in adultery.

  of coarse...the man of sin is as good as a dead man for having another man's wife..[Shiloh/he that has the legal right]

   there are all kinds of unlawful marriages/unions in the old Adam/corrupt image...........

   if we confess our sins...He will cleanse us of them. Those of this persuasion are invited to go to Him and speak to Him[Rock]

about it. And water will pour forth from the rock..to cleanse and refresh them.  They MUST KNOW THAT HE LOVES THEM

AND DOES NOT DESPISE THEM....BUT DIED FOR THEM.  AND THAT HE WILL DELIVER THEM FROM ALL SIN

   THAT HE IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSON..AND GOD HAS BOUND UP ALL MEN IN SIN IN ORDER TO HAVE MERCY UNTO ALL.

   People get freaked out about homosexuality/sodom sins in particular because of Sodom and Gommorah...but we need

  to realize what God was really showing there.......the announcement of the promised seed of Sarah unto Abraham[laughter]...was

timed at the visitation of the fire that wiped out Sodom and Gommarah!  It is the consuming of what is not of Him that precedes

the giving of the promise.

  also...the two wittnesses that lay dead..in sodom and Egypt[overcome of the beast] for three days..precedes the call to come up

here!!!!!

[rosered]

Very important post Rich! I agree..we definitely need to show more love. None of us is perfect in this life. We are not under the letter of the law that brings death, hate and division. We who are in the Spirit have His law of grace and love written in our haerts. Jesus said, Judge not least you be judged.  We are not to reject eachother, we are to love. I have seen some posts on this site that would be very painful for a Christian homosexual to read and I pray for that attitude of judgementalism and exclusion to be done away with. Replace it with respect and love. Pray for others all you want God might just change your heart as well.  :HeartThrob:

God deals with each and every one of us   Caffus    individually  as one  tiny  speck of the whole     

Death is a good thing for those of the old man of sin  , so we can never ever speak evil or  bad about the Law of Moses    , that makes us like satan and the Lord will rebuke us    strongly   

Remember Peter wanted to keep Jesus  there with them while in   his mortal body   The  Cross was the very thing Jesus was sent to do  , and Jesus knew this ,

but poor old Peter had no clue    and Jesus rebuked him , get behind me satan ?  ,  saying you  do not savor or taste the things being of God but the thing that be of men    ?    Jesus was showing us  how  we cannot let a stumbling block get in the way of Gods desire   or will if you will      ...    but run that race     , he was also showing us that the kingdom of God is not an earthly one     ,  the Jewish  folks wanted it  to be all about the flesh   and blood    and literal kingdom set up in the earth       as an  observing  place  for   all to  gather  as Jesus being their King over them  ...

I dont want to be called Satan do you ?   :eek:  that is a strong rebuke    and would upset  Peter   for sure  ,  He had not the Spirit in Him  yet or grew in truth and grace , but by the time he wrote  1 and 2nd  Peter we see He did !!   



  But Jesus said my kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD    ,  you see it is burning and falling to pieces as we  speak     ,  this is Babylon    and many call it Gods kingdom , but its not   , and never will be       here in the   way  many think it should be or is going to be    ...   that is error   
  the Kingdom of God  is within you   , in your heart , Jesus sits  in our hearts throne       , this is the Throne of fire   of Gods love      in every man burning out   everything that offends        , and on fire for God    , God is the consuming fire      and yet we Live to Him     ,   this is why Jesus said be hot or cold      , hot is on FIRE   and Cold is dead       

  the lukewarm state is  spewed out of His mouth        you being to comfortable   and no need of anything any longer    and rich , is Babylon   , the lukewarm state  of  mixing    , hot and cold  , flesh and spirit      , life and   death     , the Word warns us in James these things ought not be  ,  saying you LOVE GOD and cursing mankind !!       fresh water and bitter water at the same time   

I believe to many are in the dark  about what please God and judge according to the flesh      , when you judge by the Spirit   there is a great HOPE within you  [ being Christ ]     that  is the salvation  for all mankind    by His Spirit and truth  being new creatures in Christ    called  holy things or sons of God  and yet being  flesh and blood still  are  HIDDEN by our own flesh and blood ,    till the Light   shows us    all who we are   in HIM ,    also the sons of mankind Like Jesus was and will be interceding for us with all the clouds and witnesses     till the end   of  our days of flesh be no more     , that is what we are  in the reality      in my opinion   

     When Jesus come in the flesh the first time    in a body made for Him    by God to be sent  down here and    make all the difference   ,   the Cross  turned it around to be healed and walk in the Spirit , when Jesus comes the  second time it is  by SPIRIT AND TRUTH /SEED word of God   , that   he comes in our flesh 

  to dwell  amongst us    ,  where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name I am in the mist of them     ,  He is with us 
  we never knew this    before    or on our own did we ?   
  I can say He is here     and dwells with mankind   without doubting Him at all

we are all under His watchful 7 eyes of the 7 churches of the  7 Spirit of God  and examination  , His Word judges us all   and all the time ..

   with eyes all around   and within rev 4
7The first creature was like a lion, and the second creature like a calf, and the third creature had a face like that of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle. 8And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within;

and day and night they do not cease to say, "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME."

9  and when the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever,...

  these seraphims of Isaiah's  day    are the same ones of REVEALING  JESUS CHRIST    to us in our day  by Revelation     ..
 

[rosered]

also...the two wittnesses that lay dead..in sodom and Egypt[overcome of the beast] for three days..precedes the call to come up

here!!!!!

  wow  , so many more scriptures come to mind !! mindful of them  in your post

   I know that transfiguration    vision was  an  important      clue !      Jesus   Christ was  standing alone    after the two   witnesses     being the law and prophets

  the clouds of His glory whom has the Spirit and truth working within them all for the times appointed

Jesus went to  the graves and Spoke to the heart of the earth     at the CROSS     FOR 3 DAYS  :eek:

    The lying dead in the streets of sodom / burning   flame   http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Sodom.html#.VVDWC_lViko    and Egypt ,  being the world or double   straits =double  trouble ''distress ''   ''  copts  ''  The Copts are the native Christians of Egypt and the largest Christian denomination in the country. Christianity was the religion of the vast majority of Egyptians from 400–800 A.D. and the majority after the Muslim conquest until the mid-10th century and remains the faith of a significant minority population.
old heavens and earth       

Yes SAYS  the SPIRIT OF LIFE     raising the dead to Life    again  ,   just as those whom  hear His Voice will LIVE
john 5

The Father and the Son
...27and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

28"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs/graves  will hear His voice,

29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment....
   

[jabcat]

Very important post Rich! I agree..we definitely need to show more love. None of us is perfect in this life. We are not under the letter of the law that brings death, hate and division. We who are in the Spirit have His law of grace and love written in our haerts. Jesus said, Judge not least you be judged.  We are not to reject eachother, we are to love. I have seen some posts on this site that would be very painful for a Christian homosexual to read and I pray for that attitude of judgementalism and exclusion to be done away with. Replace it with respect and love. Pray for others all you want God might just change your heart as well.  :HeartThrob:

Yes, we are to love and pray for others.  Full agreement with that.  But you've specifically 'called out' some things in your post that I'd like to address.   I've personally never seen anyone post anything any differently than that, at least in the past couple of years. I also think folks tend to go out of their way to make sure and say we should respect everyone, treat people kindly, even those we disagree with.   Personally, I'd be happy if the particular topic you highlight above would just go away for awhile, but I guess that's what people are thinking about as it's in the news so much and so people keep bringing it up for discussion.

Please prayerfully consider a few things based on specifics of your post.  The Apostle Paul wrote much on the function of the body, and he wasn't teaching "law".  Yet he laid some things out very clearly, and that's what I've (personally) for the most part seen people try to address in their posts.  You're right though, none of us are perfect, and I'm sure I and perhaps others may come across at times in ways that could be improved upon.  Sorry about that.  However, I still don't believe we should compromise what's clearly written for us in the scriptures.  I do agree though, that nothing should ever be done without love.  Even if it's clearly speaking truth.  It's not always easy to hear, personally accept (I struggle with it often in my own life, because I "want" to go my own way), and many only want to hear (including me) something that makes me feel good and "itches my ears".  2 Timothy 4:3.  But Paul said that's not a good thing, and again, clearly spelled out some things that if one has respect for the scriptures, cannot be ignored or explained away.  How we handle it, yes, is very important.  I.e., love and hopes of restoration rather than despising and rejecting the person (not the sin).

But we are also to speak the truth as outlined in the scriptures, and I or no one is exempt from needing that in my/our own lives. It's not one or the other (truth or love), and I personally believe that agreeing with someone else's (or our own) sin as clearly defined in the scriptures, and teaching such, is not doing them a favor.  In fact, I believe it's doing the opposite.  And yes, sometimes the truth hurts.  And that hurt can be a needful thing.  Personally, I'm hurt every day as I realize I fail Him and need to bring things into submission to Him.  But again, it isn't about condemnation, it is about His love, grace, and forgiveness - as He brings us into maturity and makes us grow. 

Heb. 4:12  For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Ephesians 4:15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ.

[rosered]

   Well said James !!   

  Yes it  is ,  speaking truth in love   as a helping hand and not a   foot   tripper     but foot washer   to help   cleanse any wound caused by the   harm of

  the wicked  or unforgiving  servants    :HeartThrob:   

Matt 18
The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant


...31"So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.


32"Then summoning him, his lord said to him, 'You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.


33'Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'

[jabcat]

Thanks rosie.   :HeartThrob:  You're a kind soul. :)

-----------

I almost always think too much, and it's not always a good thing to "get me started" talking about it.   :laugh2:

Not just because I want to talk about myself, but because I believe it needs an example;  so I'll put myself out there as the guinea pig.    I think of this;  John (eaglesway) and I are mods.  I need John to have brotherly love for me, show support, encourage me, etc.  But if I told John I had decided to have an affair with the woman next door, that I was just tired of my wife and had been looking at this other woman and decided to start spending time with her, what do I need John to do?  How would he best love me?  Would it be by saying "yeah, go for it.  There's really no reason you shouldn't enjoy yourself and feel good about yourself for what you're doing"?  Or would it be to say "you know I love you, but because I do love and care for you, I want to try to help you.  God says what you're planning to do is wrong.  Let's work together on you overcoming this by turning from it, seeking the Lord's help, etc..."?

And what if I persisted?  If I said "no John, I'm going to go ahead and stay married and see this other woman anyway.  God doesn't care and neither should you.  Mind your own business."  Should John then just ignore that, and say "well, God will work it out.  Let jabcat stay on as mod and adminstrator, it doesn't matter.  No big deal".  Actually, the scriptures give us clear instructions as to what John should do.  Paul talked about in detail, step-by-step.  And it wasn't that he should just placate me and act like nothing was going on.  It was to take further steps to confront me, try to help me "get back on the right track", and then finally remove me from my position of service if I persisted stubborn and unrepentant. 

(Another 2 that are similar.)  Let's say I go to John and say "brother, I'm really struggling with something.  I just keep letting this particular sin crop up in my life, over and over.  Sometimes I just think it's part of my character I do it so often.  I know it's wrong, I'm weak, I'm not doing well."  (or this one;  "John, I keep being tempted to do this sin X,Y,Z, and honestly, sometimes I do give in to it and fail".)       Should John scream at me and cast me out, or on the other hand say "it's OK, don't worry about it, we're all human"?  Or perhaps this;  "let's start praying together about this that God will help you overcome this.  God loves you, forgives you, (you already know what you're doing is sin so I don't need to harp on that).  Let's talk about resisting this thing, but then also that God is in the saving and delivering business.  He forgives you and carries you and covers you when you can't do it yourself, but let's look to Him and trust Him for help and strength and deliverance.  If you fall, confess.  But don't stay there.  Keep looking to Jesus..."  etc

"How to treat others"...how is John treating me best? 

[jabcat]

I disagree with the interpretation of eunuchs being homosexual and the false conclusion that Jesus said some people were born homosexual.

When I see "Jesus didn't address X,Y,Z", I think sometimes we forget that Jesus wrote the whole scriptures.

I went back and read the original post in this thread.  One thing I noticed is that the OP talked about judging things in the church, not "screaming at the world" [my interpretation] about their sin.  I personally don't think we should scream at anyone about their sin (I don't want them screaming at me about mine).   Lest caffus or anyone else not understand;  I'm personally not talking about going around and just trying to pick at people for sin, pointing it out, criticizing it, being condemning of people.  I'm talking about IDEAS, an OUTLINE of making sure we don't cave and compromise the truth - however GOD may lead each person to express that.  I'm talking about not giving into error, not being complacent and letting wolves slip into the sheep pen. 

There obviously is a lot of UN-truth in the world.  Sinners are going to act like sinners.  And that's all of us until Jesus changes us.  And some change is a life-long journey, and some things we may not overcome until we have our immortal bodies.  So I'm NOT talking about marching, or cursing people, or even having unkind attitudes.  I'm talking about being sure we're not shallow and too easily influenced by the message of the world.  That message of "I'm OK, you're OK.  ALL we need is love"...   That we as believers need to be sure and seek to know what truth is - ALL of it - including LOVE, as well as the things that injure our flesh - as we die to Him and He LIVES in us.  Joyously, victoriously, and always in His mercy.

Have a truly blessed day in Him.

[rosered]

 

  Love how you used that  ''concept ''  JAMES !!

  INDEED/word   &  works  and in loving  truth    :thumbsup:

     Psalms 97...

9For You are the LORD Most High over all the earth;


You are exalted far above all gods.


10Hate evil, you who love the LORD, Who preserves the souls of His godly ones;


He delivers them from the hand of the wicked.


11Light is sown like seed for the righteous And gladness for the upright in heart.


The Light gets brighter the more we look to Him  for everything     :HeartThrob:

admonish 1THESS   

Christian Living
...13  and that you esteem them very highly in love because of their work.


Live in peace with one another.


14We urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone.


15See that no one repays another with evil for evil,

but always seek after that which is good for one another and for all people.

Loving someone enough to tell them the truth  in love to save/ help  them from  destruction and  leading to more  ungodliness    in their lives

  Love is patient love is kind   1Cor 13


...3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned,


but do not have love, it profits me nothing.


4Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,

5does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,...

GOD IS  Love   and is firm   as  together  ,   to set us   up right and straight   supporting one another     and keep one another   from harm   

  Correction from the Lord just might come out of  your brothers   mouth as a witness   to what is right in the sight of God    by the Spirit of truth    .

 

  :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup: rosie

Honestly!  I didn't seek this out.  Went to my facebook and one of my old high school friends had posted this as the first thing that popped up on my page.  How to do this I'm sure depends on situations as the Lord leads, not just searching out each others' faults, etc.  and always in love.

James 5:19-20
"Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sin."

[jabcat]

"full disclosure"

i was just convicted by the verse above and apologized to my wife.  sometimes in our day-to-day life, in the effort of trying to kindly help me, she points something out that i've said that was showing a bad attitude for instance, and for my usually feeling offended and resisting it.  my mistake.