Help needed to heal my guilt of giving.

[Truth seeker]

Hi again everyone here I am again third post in now, becoming a regular ha.
Anyway my topic today that bothers me because I want to do what God wants is giving.
Now for me and much study including on tentmaker I no longer feel burdened by the pressure of the tithe. I also know we give in may ways other than financially.
The last few years have been a financial struggle for my family and I which has led to us having to sell our home and downsizing too to clear debt. Anyhow by June this year God willing we will be free of all our debt. As it stands I live in the UK and currently have around £40 per week spare for a family of 4. Now when I say spare yes sometimes we might treat ourselves but many times this will be used for the usual things that seem to go wrong so many times like the kids have a hole in their school shoes, my mum is struggling to make ends meet, recently our house has got some bad humidity issues and causing damp in my daughters room and she has asthma so I got a dehumidifier.
My worry is is this wrong?
With so little spare I have so little to give I do give a little of what we do have and its not like we are spending the rest wildly.I have no loans now no phone contracts, what we pay for every month is just the basic utilities and living costs.
Later on in the year this will turn around much I am hoping and so I will show God how greatful I am by using that money to help my family and others.
This morning I felt some guilt come over me, I read the church newsletter and it was talking about "first fruits" again!
I know many Christians believe we should give first from our wage and trust in God even before our bills. But if I did that now so close to my limit if something went wrong I would have no where to go financially. I also get guilty becasue you can give online but it show other people's offerings and some are huge! 

I wonder if I'm wrong but I just feel from what I have learnt should I not first make sure my family is OK and taken care off. Do I not give to God by doing this? Am I not showing the money is not for me? And I'm not wanting to keep hold of it? Then can I not give to the needy, the poor, the homeless or do I have to give to the church first? And by church is that a church building and hope what they are saying its going to actually does go to that cause? Also does the bible teach we must give to believers first? So do I choose to give to a Christan in need over anyone else in need? Finally can I not just give from what I have to whom I feel needs it and by this way I'm showing money is not an idol to me and I'm giving to all? I'm worried I'm getting it all wrong and there has to be an amount,a %, a minimum or to the church first? At times I've been sacred of taking a holiday or buying anything or letting my family do the same.

Any help is much appreciated xxx

[Eduard]

The apostle Paul said in 1 Timothy 5:8 that a man is to provide for his household, or he has denied the faith. And while I do not have one of my own to provide for yet, and still studying, supported by my immediate family like parents, we are not exactly well-off here. I want to give help to everyone who is in need, but at this point I am not far from being in need myself.

And I also remember this verse from James: Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you. (Jas 1:27 NLT)  :iagree:

[sheila]

take care of your family first.....a man that does not provide for his family is worse than a man with no faith.

men in carnal ministries that seek to make a name for themselves..seek to make a mark in your forehead[mind/guilt] and hand[give]

that you not be able to buy or sell[merchants] unless they get their 'cut' off the top. Such merchandise the word of God.and seek to

put you into compulsion of their will.

   Do not be oweing one another anything but to love one another.

    Jesus said 'Ye have the poor with ye always..you can give to them anytime you want" the early christians set aside so much

the beginning of the week..as to how they had prospered.  Some  speak in this manner 'silver and gold I do not possess"

my  :2c:

[guest5685]

 :iagree: with Sheila on her comment to you. Take care of your family and don't be let anyone put a guilt trip on you to give to their church-ministry whatever.

When you do have funds to spare I'd give to someone that has a real need before giving to a big church or ministry that spends funds rather lavishly. If you go to a church or are tremendously blessed by them then give them something to help with the AC-seating-cleaning-upkeep-etc. Just as if you went and had a good meal - that is if it was really building you up spiritually and you found it a real blessing to you.

If I had to do things over again I think most of my giving would have been to folks in real need. Maybe a poor struggling family in a church you go to. Maybe you feel a tug in your heart to give to a street person or beggar follow your heart. God knows some are just scammers but others are not and he can let you know which are really in need. I have seen folks in big churches that could be helped by those churches struggle while the pastors lived lifestyles of extravagance. Somethings wrong with that picture. Ministries speak of you giving money to God but in most cases it's giving to them depending on how the funds are used of course. I do believe in blessing with a portion of your funds with those that bless you with spiritual things as that is scriptural. If they are in better shape than your family take care of your family first the exception would be if you really-really-really know the prompting of the Holy Ghost within you. In that case I'd follow that prompting because it should have no guilt or fear attached to it and you'll be blessed by obedience. I also believe that would not happen very often. :2c:

[sheila]

I want to share some other things,too.  I had a friend and a sister[not Rose] that were always asking me for money. They always had a need

   and I would give..sometimes I even went into debt to give. after about 4-5 years it came to my attention that they both made more money

than I did.

  we are not to strike hands or make pledge for security for a wayward woman...take the penalty[outer garment] of he that does so.

    if you are giving to a woman[church] that is wayward[babylon] you may lose your shirt![outer covering]

   Proverbs 22;27  be not one of them that strike hands[shake hands] or of them that are sureties for debts.If you have nothing to pay

why should he take your bed from under you?

  Jesus was in the temple and he saw a certain widow giving out of her want[all her means of living] and said 'This woman give more

than all these other's"  Some churches hold that up as a fine example for widows..so that they can rob widows houses in the name

of God. But Jesus was exposing the shame of it..that the worship of Father would be turned into a den of robbers and theives.

in Father's House a house of prayer for all men..to look after widows and orphans is acceptable.


and there are many other scriptures to help you be more balanced and not be under compulsion by those who would mark your mind

with misplaced guilt so they can take your money.

   according as ye have prospered........give.not under compulsion.

[guest5685]

 :thumbsup:

[rosered]

 

  Thanks Eduard and Shelia    :iagree:   He1 my heart  :dsunny:  Keep on  trusting in the Lord   Truthseeker  :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

 

  Thanks Eduard and Shelia    :iagree:   He1 my heart  :dsunny:  Keep on  trusting in the Lord   Truthseeker  :HeartThrob:

Amen  :iagree: : :iagree:

The only other thing I thought of was how Paul when writing he would collect for the Jerusalem church when they were having a drought, he said to let each give as they were able and as Sheila said "without compulsion"/pressure.. No mention of a % :smile:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The tithe was compulsory in the OT, and it was AGRICULTURAL in nature. If anyone makes you feel guilty, which is of condemnation which ministers death, I say..... take "em a nice goat.  :LH:

All kidding aside (or was I?  :Chinscratch:) , there are 3 levels of tithing, that correspond to the 3 parts of the Tabernacle of Moses.

Outer court/literally of your substance

Inner court/both spiritual (bible study in home? your time is a tithe, taking time to minister spiritual gifts is a tithe) AND natural (meet a natural need of someone)

Holy of Holies/ you BECOME the tithe.

Decades ago, when I was married, I literally had not 3 cents at my disposal, and I was being made to feel shame over not tithing and I cried out to the Lord about it. He gave me this and let me know I HAD been tithing all along. They just couldn't see it. Blessings...

[Eduard]

You're welcome.  :gimmefive: And great posts from everyone else here.  :dsunny:

[GodIsLove]

:cloud9: The tithe was compulsory in the OT, and it was AGRICULTURAL in nature. If anyone makes you feel guilty, which is of condemnation which ministers death, I say..... take "em a nice goat.  :LH:

All kidding aside (or was I?  :Chinscratch:) , there are 3 levels of tithing, that correspond to the 3 parts of the Tabernacle of Moses.

Outer court/literally of your substance

Inner court/both spiritual (bible study in home? your time is a tithe, taking time to minister spiritual gifts is a tithe) AND natural (meet a natural need of someone)

Holy of Holies/ you BECOME the tithe.

Decades ago, when I was married, I literally had not 3 cents at my disposal, and I was being made to feel shame over not tithing and I cried out to the Lord about it. He gave me this and let me know I HAD been tithing all along. They just couldn't see it. Blessings...

:thumbsup:

[Truth seeker]

I am overwhelmed with all the replies! I will sit down later and reply to you all. So greatful for all  the help and it has really helped :dsunny:

Its so amazing God has led me hear to let his voice speak through so many of you. I agree with everyone and its just so uplifiting to hear all of the comments. Will be back soon but just wanted to say thank you all first. :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[guest5685]

Here is something to think about as well to remove the false guilt of pressured giving.

Matthew Chapter 17 vs. 24-26

24  And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute [1] money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? 25  He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? 26  Peter saith unto him, of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free..

Notice Jesus asks Peter who kings of the earth took tribute from was it from their children or strangers. When Peter says they took it from strangers Jesus says to Peter-Then are the children free. We are children of The King and we are free those that sit under the law teachers are in the servant realm in their minds so they commanded by their self-proclaimed masters to give tribute (tithes)to them. Seeing themselves as servants they feel guilt if they do not as commanded. They believe the old robbing God story and God's going to curse them if they don't. In truth the law teachers are robbing God's kids of the true nature of their father and turning him into a child abuser.

The above verses are those that finally convinced me to walk free of that legalism tithe system. Hope this helps you too! :dsunny:

[Truth seeker]

The apostle Paul said in 1 Timothy 5:8 that a man is to provide for his household, or he has denied the faith. And while I do not have one of my own to provide for yet, and still studying, supported by my immediate family like parents, we are not exactly well-off here. I want to give help to everyone who is in need, but at this point I am not far from being in need myself.

And I also remember this verse from James: Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you. (Jas 1:27 NLT)  :iagree:

Thanks Eduard :dsunny:
I have read 1 Timothy 5:8 before and totally agree :iagree: I think this is the least we should do and where I now start from when considering anything I give this way. I think we may not be always able to give financially but there is always something we can do to help and doesn't have to be money as you say in the last part of your post. :thumbsup:

[Truth seeker]

take care of your family first.....a man that does not provide for his family is worse than a man with no faith.

men in carnal ministries that seek to make a name for themselves..seek to make a mark in your forehead[mind/guilt] and hand[give]

that you not be able to buy or sell[merchants] unless they get their 'cut' off the top. Such merchandise the word of God.and seek to

put you into compulsion of their will.

   Do not be oweing one another anything but to love one another.

    Jesus said 'Ye have the poor with ye always..you can give to them anytime you want" the early christians set aside so much

the beginning of the week..as to how they had prospered.  Some  speak in this manner 'silver and gold I do not possess"

my  :2c:

hi Shelia ,  :iagree: and it seems many here have good knowledge and sense. thank you so much for your help.

[Truth seeker]

:iagree: with Sheila on her comment to you. Take care of your family and don't be let anyone put a guilt trip on you to give to their church-ministry whatever.

When you do have funds to spare I'd give to someone that has a real need before giving to a big church or ministry that spends funds rather lavishly. If you go to a church or are tremendously blessed by them then give them something to help with the AC-seating-cleaning-upkeep-etc. Just as if you went and had a good meal - that is if it was really building you up spiritually and you found it a real blessing to you.

If I had to do things over again I think most of my giving would have been to folks in real need. Maybe a poor struggling family in a church you go to. Maybe you feel a tug in your heart to give to a street person or beggar follow your heart. God knows some are just scammers but others are not and he can let you know which are really in need. I have seen folks in big churches that could be helped by those churches struggle while the pastors lived lifestyles of extravagance. Somethings wrong with that picture. Ministries speak of you giving money to God but in most cases it's giving to them depending on how the funds are used of course. I do believe in blessing with a portion of your funds with those that bless you with spiritual things as that is scriptural. If they are in better shape than your family take care of your family first the exception would be if you really-really-really know the prompting of the Holy Ghost within you. In that case I'd follow that prompting because it should have no guilt or fear attached to it and you'll be blessed by obedience. I also believe that would not happen very often. :2c:

thank you again for your help, I do worry how churchs use the money. I believe that God will hold them account for it but also we too have to be careful with what we do with it and not just give it to the church and say oh well thats me sorted ive paid my bit. I want my giving whether it be money, time, gift or anything else to be given wisely. You make good points on who to consider to give to and I will be using them all so God Bless you. :dsunny:

[Truth seeker]

I want to share some other things,too.  I had a friend and a sister[not Rose] that were always asking me for money. They always had a need

   and I would give..sometimes I even went into debt to give. after about 4-5 years it came to my attention that they both made more money

than I did.

  we are not to strike hands or make pledge for security for a wayward woman...take the penalty[outer garment] of he that does so.

    if you are giving to a woman[church] that is wayward[babylon] you may lose your shirt![outer covering]

   Proverbs 22;27  be not one of them that strike hands[shake hands] or of them that are sureties for debts.If you have nothing to pay

why should he take your bed from under you?

  Jesus was in the temple and he saw a certain widow giving out of her want[all her means of living] and said 'This woman give more

than all these other's"  Some churches hold that up as a fine example for widows..so that they can rob widows houses in the name

of God. But Jesus was exposing the shame of it..that the worship of Father would be turned into a den of robbers and theives.

in Father's House a house of prayer for all men..to look after widows and orphans is acceptable.


and there are many other scriptures to help you be more balanced and not be under compulsion by those who would mark your mind

with misplaced guilt so they can take your money.

   according as ye have prospered........give.not under compulsion.

thank you for taking the time to share, I truly appreciate it and feel a lot of pressure lifted of with all the responses on this topic.

[Truth seeker]

 

  Thanks Eduard and Shelia    :iagree:   He1 my heart  :dsunny:  Keep on  trusting in the Lord   Truthseeker  :HeartThrob:

Amen  :iagree: : :iagree:

The only other thing I thought of was how Paul when writing he would collect for the Jerusalem church when they were having a drought, he said to let each give as they were able and as Sheila said "without compulsion"/pressure.. No mention of a % :smile:

I have read this a few times and thought surely this is the  way to be. I have know some churchs use scripture where it says set aside each week for the priests.......
and abuse that to make it look like we give to them first and then the whole first fruits act again.

apologies for my simplified scripture verse im still learning to remember scripture to the letter of by heart but it does go in  :laughing7:  I could do with my bible with me.

[Truth seeker]

:cloud9: The tithe was compulsory in the OT, and it was AGRICULTURAL in nature. If anyone makes you feel guilty, which is of condemnation which ministers death, I say..... take "em a nice goat.  :LH:

All kidding aside (or was I?  :Chinscratch:) , there are 3 levels of tithing, that correspond to the 3 parts of the Tabernacle of Moses.

Outer court/literally of your substance

Inner court/both spiritual (bible study in home? your time is a tithe, taking time to minister spiritual gifts is a tithe) AND natural (meet a natural need of someone)

Holy of Holies/ you BECOME the tithe.

Decades ago, when I was married, I literally had not 3 cents at my disposal, and I was being made to feel shame over not tithing and I cried out to the Lord about it. He gave me this and let me know I HAD been tithing all along. They just couldn't see it. Blessings...

thank you Cardinal I have done a fair bit on the tithe as I too was so worried I was not giving enough. Its surprising how few know the truth and even if they here it they still refuse to believe it and pay their tithe. I read a lot of the tithe being up to 20% due to all the other parts ect but not read so much on the 3 levels as you have pointed out so I have learnt something else today. I really like the way God revieled  to you how you had been tithing all along how great is that! :thumbsup:

[rosered]

  I always battled this problem  within myself  as well Truthseeker

  When I read   when giving  alms  don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing ...

  This really perplexed me
  as to thinking what n  is Jesus saying Matthew 6:2-4New American Standard Bible (NASB)

"So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.


But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.


  I have since figured out some ways to keep   secret         and God sure has blessed !!
  God bless you  in all you are seeking to do in Jesus name   :HeartThrob:

[Truth seeker]

Here is something to think about as well to remove the false guilt of pressured giving.

Matthew Chapter 17 vs. 24-26

24  And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute [1] money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? 25  He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? 26  Peter saith unto him, of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free..

Notice Jesus asks Peter who kings of the earth took tribute from was it from their children or strangers. When Peter says they took it from strangers Jesus says to Peter-Then are the children free. We are children of The King and we are free those that sit under the law teachers are in the servant realm in their minds so they commanded by their self-proclaimed masters to give tribute (tithes)to them. Seeing themselves as servants they feel guilt if they do not as commanded. They believe the old robbing God story and God's going to curse them if they don't. In truth the law teachers are robbing God's kids of the true nature of their father and turning him into a child abuser.

The above verses are those that finally convinced me to walk free of that legalism tithe system. Hope this helps you too! :dsunny:

This is a new way at looking at this. My friend once quoted the next verse "But so that we may not cause offense, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours."

and said this is why we pay too but I think he didnt understand the previous verses maybe.

[rosered]

  In Light of What Cardinal has shared    , if you are the temple of the Living God  it is about  [  temple worship and   self sacrifice ]   showing mercy   when wronged etc..    But  Truth  seeker   the left hand is honor of men   , the right hand of power is Jesus Christ when you are in the body of Christ to me it is all about Honoring the Father none of have a thing without Him , sometimes it is just as simple as praising GOD  to me  and being thankful      for all HE HAS DONE ...

and  bowing the knee in honor of the Father ...  every knee shall bow and  every tongue confess He is Lord ... :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

Here is something to think about as well to remove the false guilt of pressured giving.

Matthew Chapter 17 vs. 24-26

24  And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute [1] money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? 25  He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? 26  Peter saith unto him, of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free..

Notice Jesus asks Peter who kings of the earth took tribute from was it from their children or strangers. When Peter says they took it from strangers Jesus says to Peter-Then are the children free. We are children of The King and we are free those that sit under the law teachers are in the servant realm in their minds so they commanded by their self-proclaimed masters to give tribute (tithes)to them. Seeing themselves as servants they feel guilt if they do not as commanded. They believe the old robbing God story and God's going to curse them if they don't. In truth the law teachers are robbing God's kids of the true nature of their father and turning him into a child abuser.

The above verses are those that finally convinced me to walk free of that legalism tithe system. Hope this helps you too! :dsunny:

This is a new way at looking at this. My friend once quoted the next verse "But so that we may not cause offense, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours."

and said this is why we pay too but I think he didnt understand the previous verses maybe.

:dsunny: :goodpost:   both of you ......

  I have considered the government    has taken over in welfare  for the poor  by taxing wages  , to what the churches  HAD  done for centuries    ,
It was up to the  Churches to  provide   for the poor

  When I consider also the poor in spirit , there is a greater need that no money  can buy

  It is the Lord and   His   Government  that  feeds and clothes the poor    with   Himself and  all the members of HIS BODY     ,  this is discerning the Lords body   to me    in one way to look at  Him and see Him ... 

[Truth seeker]

Can I just say many thanks to you all again, I have a few worries that in my life and learning what God wants for me I have struggled with. Although I am quite new here all of you have really helped and welcomed me.
For me this is what church is about, coming together to discuss and support one another and discover the WORD and the truth. I went to church this morning and it was OK but I do feel a struggle sometimes, today again was a lot to do with spreading the word to people in the 19-24 age range where we live because this is the lowest amount that come to church. So I thought ok thats fine. But then the whole first fruits thing came in and a pastor said " I want you to think how you are going to give with your firstfruits" this time and in the past we have been so blessed.

Well to be fair they do, do a lot for charity and it "seems" they have the right intentions but I have not been going long. It did make me wonder when they said they wanted to re- do this old church so it was all new and "wow factor" for when anyone comes in ect. Then I kinda turned off and thought really? sure its nice to have a nice church but is it essential right now? how about get the people in by spreading the good news and then honestly and openly say we are doing a collection to do up the building any help we are grateful too? instead of the guilt trip of how are we going to honor God  this month. Maybe its me being touchy but I see the band at church with all new shiny gear and I just think have they got priorities right?
I am not saying dont use funds for church music, building ect but at least be honest, make it clear what its for and that no one is under compulsion to give to that fund.


I have learnt a lot today so God bless you all. One day I will thank you all personally when We all meet together :HeartThrob:

[Truth seeker]

  In Light of What Cardinal has shared    , if you are the temple of the Living God  it is about  [  temple worship and   self sacrifice ]   showing mercy   when wronged etc..    But  Truth  seeker   the left hand is honor of men   , the right hand of power is Jesus Christ when you are in the body of Christ to me it is all about Honoring the Father none of have a thing without Him , sometimes it is just as simple as praising GOD  to me  and being thankful      for all HE HAS DONE ...

and  bowing the knee in honor of the Father ...  every knee shall bow and  every tongue confess He is Lord ... :HeartThrob:

Hi Rosered,

it funny you give this verse only today at church I noticed some of the songs had lyrics with ALL in and the Pastor read out " Philippians 2:10
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,

I thought I wonder how he really hears this verse if they teach of eternal Hell? slightly off topic I know but got me wondering. They dont often teach about it but I do think they are not univeralists just a bit unsure themselves what to teach.

you are right though at the end of the day it is about praising God and What he has done for us because its only what he has done for us, because of what Jesus did for us ALL that we shall live.  THANK YOU LORD. :iagree: