He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

[DanielB]

I have got to thinking about this recently. Was that always a rule for stoning?(whether it was mentioned or not) Did you have to be without sin in order to inflict physical punishment on others(and not be immoral for doing so)? I think parents discipline their kids would be an obvious exception to this either way(since discipline is clearly a blessing when done right). But did it change later where you have to be without sin to do so(I doubt a person without sin would actually do so even if they had the moral right since they would probably know a better way) or did what Jesus said always apply even before Jesus was born on earth?

[Eduard]

I don't know, some say that scribes added those verses later so Christ didn't actually say that  :Chinscratch:

[marie glen]

I think what many don't realize about the OT laws was how they were written to show right from wrong (good from evil / life from death) but they were written for the one tiny nation of Israel to follow, or to follow to some degree, as preparation for Messiah - Israel to be the swaddling cloths - They were not handed to "the nations".

God has always known righteousness cannot come from the outward, but the inward.. which is why Jesus in His sermon on the mount(ain) said to (simply) not murder is not good enough..

So the world criticizes God because of stonings and wars Israel fought.. but if there had been no preparation for Messiah.. if there had been no wars in those barbaric war days, Israel would have been snuffed out.. Those city-gods were quite fierce, a peaceful God would have been laughed at, thought of as timid and God I think was out to prove He was stronger, etc..

And even if folks don't accept that, the world belongs to God, it's His garden and whenever He wants to pull weeds, it's His prerogative.. It seems to me He said witches, adulterers, etc, were to be stoned.. taken out.. of the nation, the swaddling cloths, to maintain some semblance of 'the Kingdom' Messiah would be born into as opposed to in the midst of tree worshippers or somthing.. the whole point of letting man's choices run their course, I think, is for all to learn good from evil (life from nonlife)... hence consequences..

[Seth]

I agree Marie. There's alot of apologizing for God that happens with regard to the Old Testament. And I see things as you do. It's God's world, it's his clay. He can form it as he wishes, all different kinds of vessels.

To the OP question, I see it similarly to you as well, Marie. The role of the Law was to be an accuser. Not a FALSE accuser, but one who exposes sin. Paul said that the Law is good if used lawfully, knowing this that the Law is not for the righteous, but sinners (1 Timothy 1:8-9).

That is how I see Jesus using the Law. He was not obliged or bound to stone anyone because he was righteous, he walked by the Spirit, and so was not indebted to the Law. I see him as like Timothy, who was circumcised but not for righteousness sake.

So, he used the Law for what it was for, to expose hypocrisy. Paul does the exact same thing in Romans 2.

[DanielB]

I have no doubt that what God does or commands is always good. I personally think that the severity of the treatment a lot of idol worshipers received was for similar reasons a gardener may remove the dead parts from plants(they were not doing any good and would have spread their corruption to their children and other places) and also out of mercy rather than to look good or powerful to barbarians(God could have easily defended the jews by other means). If the places God destroyed or told people to destroy were one tenth as wicked as Sodom and Gomorrah then it would be more cruel to let them live in such evil than to kill them(and end it). A lot of Americans seem to think America is turning out like Sodom or Gomorrah but I think that is a long way off. We are not quite to the point where men from all over their cities are gathering up to rape visitors! Pretty much all nations are more evil and corrupt than good (America included) but not as far gone as Sodom or Gomorrah.

[DanielB]

Also thanks for the replies!  :thumbsup:

[rosered]

I have no doubt that what God does or commands is always good. I personally think that the severity of the treatment a lot of idol worshipers received was for similar reasons a gardener may remove the dead parts from plants(they were not doing any good and would have spread their corruption to their children and other places) and also out of mercy rather than to look good or powerful to barbarians(God could have easily defended the jews by other means). If the places God destroyed or told people to destroy were one tenth as wicked as Sodom and Gomorrah then it would be more cruel to let them live in such evil than to kill them(and end it). A lot of Americans seem to think America is turning out like Sodom or Gomorrah but I think that is a long way off. We are not quite to the point where men from all over their cities are gathering up to rape visitors! Pretty much all nations are more evil and corrupt than good (America included) but not as far gone as Sodom or Gomorrah.

  You have a lot of great questions Daniel !!!!    :thumbsup: ,
and wonderful to think   on them ,


Truly     it is Idolatry     and there is many ways   that idolatry is   shown  old examples in the Word of God and nowadays   

I know  the new testament handles    sin   differently  than the old  of  caught in the act    of -----, this case  adultery  and stoning  to death was the   punishment .


  But    all immorality is sin
  and sin is to error from the truth    , missing the mark     etc .

The new testament says       19My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, 20let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.   

and   Titus  1  ;13    2One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.

13This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith,


14 not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth

seems sin can  also  be defined as   turning way from the Truth .

  and  a lot is   depending on those whom     are  in Christ now, to make  some kind of  a difference   doesn't it ?