God's Will

[DC]

I've noticed that a lot of people like to argue that God's Will isn't always done, such as in these articles:
http://thedivinemercy.org/library/article.php?NID=3063
http://www.bumby.org/faq/is_gods_will_always_done.htm

However, this clearly contradicts quotes like Isaiah 46:10 and Daniel 4:35.

My theory?

We don't always do what God wants us to do, but God always does what he wants to do.

Anyone else agree?

[thinktank]

God has given man the gift _____ to enjoy.


It does not feel good to be told one does not have freedom  :sigh:

[legoman]

I've noticed that a lot of people like to argue that God's Will isn't always done, such as in these articles:
http://thedivinemercy.org/library/article.php?NID=3063
http://www.bumby.org/faq/is_gods_will_always_done.htm

Both of these articles are arguing from a false premise. 

The first one says God's will is clearly not done because "we know that not all will be saved".

The second article suggests that God is the "ultimate chess player", responding to whatever action we can do - essentially forever coming up with a million plan B's.  The article supposes it was not God's will that Judas betray Jesus, and God only "responded" and changed His plan of salvation to include Judas.  This is putting the cart before the horse.  Judas did not change God's plan.  Judas did not even exist when God provided Christ to be the lamb that would be sacrificed for the sins of the world.  Christ was slain before the foundation of the world - this was God's plan, so of course there would be a need for someone to hand Christ over to be crucified: Judas was destined for that role.

However, this clearly contradicts quotes like Isaiah 46:10 and Daniel 4:35.

My theory?

We don't always do what God wants us to do, but God always does what he wants to do.

Anyone else agree?

The answer is that God does get His will done - we may not just see the final result yet.

Some suggest the fact that people sin means God did not get His will.  But God isn't finished yet.  Ultimately no one will sin.

Likewise some suggest the fact that people die unsaved means that God didn't get His will.  God isn't finished yet!  He is not running on our schedule.  We are running on His.  Ultimately He will achieve that too and all will be saved.

[DC]

I've noticed that a lot of people like to argue that God's Will isn't always done, such as in these articles:
http://thedivinemercy.org/library/article.php?NID=3063
http://www.bumby.org/faq/is_gods_will_always_done.htm

Both of these articles are arguing from a false premise. 

The first one says God's will is clearly not done because "we know that not all will be saved".

The second article suggests that God is the "ultimate chess player", responding to whatever action we can do - essentially forever coming up with a million plan B's.  The article supposes it was not God's will that Judas betray Jesus, and God only "responded" and changed His plan of salvation to include Judas.  This is putting the cart before the horse.  Judas did not change God's plan.  Judas did not even exist when God provided Christ to be the lamb that would be sacrificed for the sins of the world.  Christ was slain before the foundation of the world - this was God's plan, so of course there would be a need for someone to hand Christ over to be crucified: Judas was destined for that role.

However, this clearly contradicts quotes like Isaiah 46:10 and Daniel 4:35.

My theory?

We don't always do what God wants us to do, but God always does what he wants to do.

Anyone else agree?

The answer is that God does get His will done - we may not just see the final result yet.

Some suggest the fact that people sin means God did not get His will.  But God isn't finished yet.  Ultimately no one will sin.

Likewise some suggest the fact that people die unsaved means that God didn't get His will.  God isn't finished yet!  He is not running on our schedule.  We are running on His.  Ultimately He will achieve that too and all will be saved.

There's just one thing that confuses me about the second article:
[/quote]
The "will" of God (i.e. choice, preference, desire) is often not done.  Jesus himself spoke of this when at Jerusalem.  He said that God's will was to comfort and protect Jerusalem, but this desire was not to be, for Jerusalem would not cooperate:

Matthew 23:37 (NKJV)  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
[/quote]

[legoman]

There's just one thing that confuses me about the second article:

The "will" of God (i.e. choice, preference, desire) is often not done.  Jesus himself spoke of this when at Jerusalem.  He said that God's will was to comfort and protect Jerusalem, but this desire was not to be, for Jerusalem would not cooperate:

Matthew 23:37 (NKJV)  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

I think this again falls into a question of timing.  God isn't finished yet.  God will one day gather all Israel together when all are saved:

Rom 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved.

Israel has been hardened so that the Gentiles would be brought in, yet Israel will still ultimately be saved.  So back in Matt 23:37 we can understand that Israel is not willing right now, but in the future, when God softens their heart, they will be brought back in and all Israel will be saved.

We look at the state of the world and assume God isn't getting what He wants.  But we don't see the endpoint.  God does.  We don't understand God's vision and plan.

People sin - therefore people will always sin?  NO God isn't finished yet.
People are unsaved - therefore people will always be unsaved?  NO God isn't finished yet.
Israel was not willing to come to Christ - therefore Israel will always not be willing to come to Christ?  NO God isn't finished yet.

Our human perspective misses alot sometimes

[WhiteWings]

It's for a reason the word "mystery" is used....

[micah7:9]

It's for a reason the word "mystery" is used....

:bigGrin:

[Paul Hazelwood]

I think scripture is divided up and describes this issue between what God is responsible for and what man is accountable for.

Through the law of reaping what we sow what God is responsible for will come about and man is held accountable for what he does.  We can suffer or enjoy consequenses for what we do, either good or bad,  those consequenses ensures that what God is responsible for is not thwarted by what we do.

This is why God can be seen in some verses as "wishing" his people did something different.  He can wish that, even if he knew they wouldn't have done it,  but God also knows that mans disobedience or ignorance does not change what he will do.