Freewill is a myth and here's proof

[sheila]

 and He said 'you received freely..give freely"    Jesus was rich in the Grace of God..but He emptied

  Himself of it..when He died as a condemned man under the law..that He may freely pour it out on us

   that so desperately need it[those condemned under law]...and can have life no other way.

      actually the abusers of Grace are those who dare to tell God that he can not show mercy to whom He wants

   I am well satisfied that there is enough grace to heal and save all men......for what mn..does not sit

down and first calculate if He is able to finish what He has started? and will God who has started a

good work unto man not finish it?

    v 23  nd the parts that we think are less honourable we treat with special honour. And the parts that

are unpresentable we treat with special modesty,while our presentable prts need no special treatment.


    But God has combined the members of the body and given greater honour[grace/mercy] to the

parts that lacked .  so that there should be no division in the body[salvation of mn] but that it's parts

should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers,every part suffers with it[sin in flesh condemned]

if one part is honoured[shown grace mercy] every part rejoices with it.



   

[lastpost]

Dear dajomaco,

I truly appreciate the time and effort you have taken here. I would like the opportunity to reply.

(a craving and desire for that which is debased. Is NOT the result  of the continual opting of evil and wilful denial of good breeds as a consequence.
It is our nature  .It is intrinsic it is the reality of our flesh and it is our automatic default position).

The character I wrote about is not portraying one who wishes to be helped by God but one who opposes God. However, perhaps a present day allegory may help fill in the picture, as it were, but bear in mind in this allegory such people often do want to be helped whereas the one I write of does not desire help but rather seeks to chase after and bury himself deeper in his sins.

A cursory glance at the life story of many possessing a dependency on a particular vice will reveal that the dependency started as perhaps curiosity, peer pressure, environmental circumstances, and so on, and then a stronger and ever stronger dependency on that vice grew.

This does not mean the tendency to sin was not inherent; rather it means the sin itself had planted the seed of that particular vice until finally its roots had spread so deeply that the host was all but choked to death by the increase in sin.

But as stated, this is about one not wishing to escape the vice at all because the vice is indeed all in all to that one.

In the light of the complete context it can be seen that the perpetual choosing of evil and refusing of good breeds consequently an aversion to that which is pure and good, and a craving for that which is debased – in a manner that beforehand was far less strong – it increases, please note.

However, as stated – this character does not wish to escape this growing craving for vice but chooses instead: "The sin of willingly rejecting the influences of God and His holy angel ministers, and of preferring, even relishing, the death caused by vice and impurity to the life of holiness and purity and love. It is the sin of exalting the animal to the practical extinction of the spiritual; of degrading even the physical, the corporeal; of feeding and cultivating sensual earthly lusts; of depraving the sensations and the lowest of tastes; of reducing the human to the level of the lowest savage."

And he does this using the freedom of his individual will no less - freewill, that term that seems to disturb so many and yet something which is part of God's great Scheme in my opinion. Of course, the Lord God of all has set inviolable laws which cannot be circumvented within which that freedom to choose must operate and abide within - but it is still freewill and, in my opinion, it is very special to God as He desires subjection of His children's wills to His own Will only by choice.

(The first animal desire I had was milk from my Mothers breasts. Jesus was born.)

Indeed friend, the whole thrust of the text is about one who chooses to become more like an animal rather than seeking the goodness and love of God. One who has abused the laws that God has set into being for the raising up of His children by seeking all that is not of God, anti-God, anti-Christ.

The mystery of Evil is the recognition of evil has no effect on evil.
Recognizing evil in a fellow brother or sister strengths the evil, the idea that this human being may have going through their head is now seconded by some one else.That they are really evil after all this guy thinks I am evil.

You are quite welcome to that conception of evil my friend. Personally, the Holy Spirit has shown me the reason why Christ said:

"Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself" (Matthew 12:45).

Please note: "more wicked than himself" which means that evil spirits have different depths of evil - clearly.

This also explains why there is an "outer darkness" Matthew (8:12). This is not just "darkness" but our Lord emphasised "outer" darkness for some. I believe this "outer (exoteros)" darkness is a place where more evil characters exist because of the deeper filth of their evil - it indicates varying degrees of evil.

I am aware that people assume this to be a metaphorical state and they are welcome to that belief of course, but my own belief is that one "day" they will see it as a reality (and that day may see us reviewing this very discussion).

( We were born into sin. We were born again when Jesus through the Spirit gave us a new birth.)

I was talking about the ability of sin to reproduce itself if not checked.

Indeed, many make the mistake that there is nothing more to do, so Paul warns:

27 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway"

27 "I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should become disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27).

Much traditionalist thought assumes that one is free from the consequences of sin because they have recognised the Love of God through Jesus the Christ as shown through His Life, Death and Resurrection. Fortunately, the Master Christ in His Wisdom declares otherwise:

"...I have not found thy works (ergon) perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee" (Rev. 3:2-3).

So Christ was talking about sins and sinning to that group.

<i>(Do not call filthy that which God has declared clean.)</i>

The previous description (prior to this comment) is of a character who has substituted all longings and desires for God, His holiness, goodness and love with vices and has consciously forced on the growth of these carnal lusts with an ever-increasing intensity. Thus he has sunk to a position where sin is unpardonable.

Indeed, the point is this: that the sinner relishes the sin so much that the sin is unpardonable because repentance is nonexistent - the sin is truly some "other god". The text is not referring to one who has been washed clean by Christ; this is mentioning the saddest case of all, the one who has become like a brutish fiend and lives to satisfy the animal yearnings that continue in him until all that is left is for his cravings to prey on themselves.

At the point mentioned (where you have inserted your do comment), this represents physical death, and, according to my understanding,  the animalistic nature of the soul carries on even though the body of the ever-changing material atoms returns to dust; hence: "he who is filthy let him be filthy still".

I interpret our Lord's words: "aionios kolasis" to mean that such a soul passes into an age-lasting correction. For one who commits the unpardonable sin, this will certainly be an age, because God's correctional laws can only work on one who ready to repent, and even once this happens that character is so alienated by his continued descent from all that is pure and holy, that the preparation must be put in before being able to breathe the rarefied purity of those places which no human eye has seen nor of which a human mind has conceived. Until the gross evil is purged from the soul, he cannot abide in such sweet conditions.

Others may interpret this in their preferred way as we each interpret what we consider to be truth according to our experience and how the Holy Spirit has informed us. That is fine, God has His design for the individual soul and that reason will be revealed perhaps not too far in the future.

(The whole think about evil being recognizable is pretty easy because the spirits seem to always identify themselves .)

My friend, I am glad that you have this ability. Remember how often the religionists of Christ's day made this error.

I am sorry if this seems strange to you all, I truly am sorry, I do understand how you feel about it and how deeply belief runs. In the Name of the glorious Christ and His own wonderful Gospel!

Peace.

[sheila]

   well,as I understand the seven spirits more wicked differently,I shll share.  If an evil spirit be caast out

of someone..and the Holy spirit not be there..to keep him/the one born of God..seven/eight more will return

  for the house is empty..and the spirit of Christ is not in it.  Men who do this can coz worse circumstances

to fall upon a brother...if it is not  spirit led..but religion led doctrine of men


   Paul dealt with the issue of superfine apostl'es that come with legalistic mosaic/christian gospel.hybrid.

to re-impugn law covenant upon gentile beleivers. He also dealt with gnostics and those who used

the grace of God s a license to sin.. Jude spoke of men also who would feed themselves at the love feast

   all these men as types..represent wicked and unclean spirits that have mastered a man,instead of the man

  mastering the evil spirit.   and yet,it is God's will and Sovereignty that openly shows and displays

and manifests these things..for our education. Also..it is He who chooses who shll draw near to Him in this life

and who shall serve Him as an example of evil..lest any flesh boast.

      At this time..Heaven is declaring the salvation of all men. We have been informed that the creature was

subjected to vanity..NOT OF IT'S WILL..but was subjected  by God in order to set the whole creation free

into the glorious freedom of the sons of God.

   the angels,concerned of the tares were told..let them both grow togather until harvest..lest ye uproot

the wheat....so....you don't throw out or pull up a wheat[spiritually growing child] becoz of a tare[sin

  in the flesh]

    there was wheatfiedl on a hill..waving gently in the breeze,growing straight under the sun. This same

wheatfield looked down on another feild..far below..at the bottom of the hill..for it's crop was scanty

  and weeds cropped up[for it was next to the river,and river in it's overflooding had sowed weeds and stunted

the lowly feild]

   the sun continued to shine..nd a drought come upon the area. However, the lowly wheatfield received

  flodwaters in just the right amount..from a deluge that happened way up river..this continued to

occurr throughout the growing season. AT harvest the wheatfield on the hill yeidled little grain..and look!

  the lowly feild,tares nd all had produced more!!


     he who is forgiven much,loves much..he who is forgiven little,loves little.

[JulieTang84]

Please forgive me Lastpost but I need to bring something to your attention.  :HeartThrob:

However, as stated – this character does not wish to escape this growing craving for vice but chooses instead: "The sin of willingly rejecting the influences of God and His holy angel ministers, and of preferring, even relishing, the death caused by vice and impurity to the life of holiness and purity and love. It is the sin of exalting the animal to the practical extinction of the spiritual; of degrading even the physical, the corporeal; of feeding and cultivating sensual earthly lusts; of depraving the sensations and the lowest of tastes; of reducing the human to the level of the lowest savage."

And he does this using the freedom of his individual will no less - freewill, that term that seems to disturb so many and yet something which is part of God's great Scheme in my opinion. Of course, the Lord God of all has set inviolable laws which cannot be circumvented within which that freedom to choose must operate and abide within - but it is still freewill and, in my opinion, it is very special to God as He desires subjection of His children's wills to His own Will only by choice.

Please know I mean no disrespect to you and only post this following with Love.   :dsunny:

Paul seemed to understand why some just could not see or hear the truth, regardless of how it was presented.

2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

But is it really their fault? Well Paul gives his take on this too.  :HeartThrob: 

Rom 9:18     Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
Rom 9:19     One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?"
Rom 9:20  But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God?  "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "

It would seem that anyone seemgling chosing a life other than one of love towards father, may not have a whole lot of free will/choice at all. This perhaps should not be a huge surprise as Jesus himself spoke of what has been given and what is expected.


Luk 12:48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows.......

Clealy Jesus is indicating that some will do things deserving of punishment (I prefer correction) because they not given to know that things were wrong. (Their hearts were hardened and they were not given the ability to act differently) Also worthy of note is that because they did not know (not their fault) the beatings (correction) will be light.

However, Jesus continues......Luk 12:48 From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.There is an operative word in the above text. "Given" This denotes a gift, instead of something chosen.

Of course one could point out that "some" might "choose" to ignore the gift. This is a fair question, but logically, is it sound? I do not believe that God is in the habit of giving a wonderful gift of Love, etc to just have it shelved. Likely many here struggled to find the peace and love they now enjoy for many years. I FOR ONE and did not find it until it was given me to find. A gift I wasn't going to turn my back on. I am sure you understand?  :HeartThrob:

All of this, everything is part of God's plan.

1Cr 1:27   But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
1Cr 1:28   God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,
1Cr 1:29   so that no one may boast before him.

From the above Scripture I truly believe that the onus is on the ones to whom the gift has been given, to love and mentor with patience and compassion any and all that may still be blind. Blind and deaf to truth, not by choice but by the will of our Father.

I pray that this is taken in the spirit it was given.  :HeartThrob:

Love Julie

[jbertonbounds]

Rom 9:18     Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
Rom 9:19     One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?"
Rom 9:20     But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God?  "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "

It would seem that anyone seemgling chosing a life other than one of love towards father, may not have a whole lot of free will/choice at all. This perhaps should not be a huge surprise as Jesus himself spoke of what has been given and what is expected.
Love Julie[/size][/font]

I read the broader context of this scripture, and I agree with you.  :thumbsup:  It certainly does support an argument against free will.  On the other hand, I don't know that it has to be all or nothing.  Let me explain.

IMO, we obviously are given at least limited will.  Our will obviously never thwarts God's will.  On the other hand, Paul obviously believe in limited will because he urged his churches to remain steadfast, which requires the ability to choose.  So then, could it be possible that some are predestined to be called, and some are predestined to be hardened and used in a different way (like Pharaoh, who was referenced farther down in this passage), and then many others not predestined either way but still having a choice whether to follow the Christ through their limited will?  Are all people who believe unto salvation predestined to do so?  Is there scripture that would answer these questions? 

[dajomaco]

(The whole think about evil being recognizable is pretty easy because the spirits seem to always identify themselves .)

My friend, I am glad that you have this ability. Remember how often the religionists of Christ's day made this error.

I am sorry if this seems strange to you all, I truly am sorry, I do understand how you feel about it and how deeply belief runs. In the Name of the glorious Christ and His own wonderful Gospel!

Seducing spirits can only seduce you by, appealing to your flesh
the mind of the flesh is there playground.

Your post are centered on how to stay in the play ground and clean it up.
Satan rules the play ground he is the only one who can tell you whether you have cleaned it properly or not. The instructions to keep the play ground clean  are Satanic instructions.

When you leave the play ground you enter the reality of the world ,of the Spirit.
Where we live breath and learn everything brand new (has if we were born again.)

The Gospel of Christ is not his own wonderful gospel .
The good news that Jesus has made us free, becomes Glorious by me walking in the freedom of that Gospel .
That Gospel is full of Grace so full of Grace that every time a seducing spirit tries
to add a little law. I recognize for what it is. (anti Christ)

It seems to me your disgust of the children who do not behave.

Well it was so well described I can't but help remembering that voice the way the words are put together. Did seven more join. 
   

[sheila]

  The Kings heart is in the hand of the Lord

   two examples....Pharoah...King of Egypt...and Xerexes King of Persia..negative and positive...

......and I will give you a heart of flesh..and I will write my laws in your heart and mind

   

[JulieTang84]

IMO, we obviously are given at least limited will.  Our will obviously never thwarts God's will.  On the other hand, Paul obviously believe in limited will because he urged his churches to remain steadfast, which requires the ability to choose.  So then, could it be possible that some are predestined to be called, and some are predestined to be hardened and used in a different way (like Pharaoh, who was referenced farther down in this passage), and then many others not predestined either way but still having a choice whether to follow the Christ through their limited will?  Are all people who believe unto salvation predestined to do so?  Is there scripture that would answer these questions? 

All wonderful questions  :HeartThrob:


I am in no way saying that we are all little robots totally mindless but thinking we are not.  :eek:


Maybe we are.  :dontknow:


I do believe that the Scriptures I quoted make it impossible to look at anyone with anything but Love as if Father has hardened their hearts, what can they do about it? Am I going to walk by them just like the scribes of old walked past the beaten heathen on the side of the road. This lesson is quite possibly the most important one the children of Father must learn.


Whatever it is that lack in Truth gives an EXACT representation of what we have gained in truth by the measure of our love for them. By the measure of Love for the One by whose grace would be in the exact same shoes.


This above anything else makes me cringe when I hear Christians whom I love speak so flippantly regarding those who a blind through no fault of their own.


As for the "others" I could count my own self as one of them. I do not ever think I was blind to the truth, for I knew what I was hearing was not truth to me. Did I have sight enough to find it in my time, oh heck No!!! But I never stopped searching, wandering around banging into things half in the dark. Never finding what I was looking for, never knowing exactly what it was even.


Then Father began revealing his love to me and the blinders began to fade. I think most of us can relate to this in one form or another.


Love, Julie  :HeartThrob:

[lastpost]

Thank you.

I believe that people can always find the reflex of their own mind in the Sacred Record if they so wish.

God knows, in my opinion, that the sting of sin is punishment enough and He allows His immutable laws to take care of this, Himself, as LOVE, remaining transcendent.

Still the separatism continues where people audaciously tell other people that the love in their hearts for Christ is but counterfeit and their relationship with God is not real because it does not fit in with their own interpretation of truth.

I believe that in the Father's House there are many, many abiding places where these go until all remnants of elitism and that exclusiveness which creates mischievous dissention and rancour between brother and brother, sister and sister are shed.

In the meanwhile, I believe that those who avoid the elitist theologies but hold a flame for the Love of the Christ of God as revealed through Jesus of Nazareth and His glorious Life and Sacrifice, are increasing in number and their small flames will one day unite into an immense light which will be as a beacon for the angels of God to herald the coming of the Son of God in all His Glory to bless those who await His Presence in reverence.

Peace.

[dajomaco]

 Lastpost said
In such a one the Divine essence is suffocated and quenched, the baser elements of the carnal are highlighted, fostered, forced on, developed to improper excess. They achieve absolute dominance, they quench the spirit and extinguish all desire for any progress which has no meaningful purpose. The vice sustains and perpetuates itself, and it drags the rogue who has submitted himself to the animal recreations further and further away from the path of progress, until even the animal becomes diseased and afflicted; the unhealthily stimulated passions seek to devour themselves; and the voice of the spirit is obscured and cannot be heard for a terrible period. Down the soul must sink, down and down, down, further and further, until it is "lost" in all but impenetrable unintelligibility.

Lastpost said
Still the separatism continues where people audaciously tell other people that the love in their hearts for Christ is but counterfeit and their relationship with God is not real because it does not fit in with their own interpretation of truth.


Cognitively unaware is the starting point.

[sheila]

  The healing of a demon-possessed  man.

   the went across the lake to the region of the Gerasenes[name means a stranger drawing nigh]

   when Jesus got out of the boat a man with n evil spirit come from the tombs,and no one could bind

  him anymore[even spirit in controlso much that no-one could subdue him].........

   night aand day among the tombs he would cry out nd cut himself among the stones.

    When he saw Jesus[the evil spirit possessing the man] he ran and fell n his knees..and said....

  'What do you want with me,Jesus,Son of the Most High God?, Swear to God that you won't torture me!"

   FOR JESUS HAD SID TO THIS MN, 'COME OUT OF HIM YOU EVIL SPIRIT!"

   Then Jesus sked him, 'What is your name? 

   My name is legion ;he replied, for we are many. And he begged Jesus again and again not to send

  'them' out of the area

   A large herd of pigs waas feeding on the hillside. The de3mons begged Jesus, 'send us among the pigs;

allow us to go into them"  He gave them permission and the evil spirits come out and went into the pigs.

   the herd,about 2000 in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.


     GO HOME TO YOUR FAMILY AND TELL THEM HOW MUCH THE LORD HAS DONE FOR YOU......

    AND HOW HE HAS HAD MERCY ON YOU.

    Now, there are many insights we can gain by this scripture.  1...the way He seperated the evil spirits

from the man....and we would do well to look at things the same way He does....at the end He will again

seperate all evil spirits from possess3ed man..and send off the devil and his angels into the Lake

of fire prepared for them...note they rushed down the steep bank..just as Azazael's goat went down

  steep bank

       2.   He did not look upon the possessed man with anything but mercy and kindness

    there are many treasures in this account..for him who seeks the deep things of God..like 2000 being

as 2 days in the tomb..and being raised up from the tomb[man] on the third day.....

    Go tell that fox, 'I WILL DRIVE OUT DEMONS Today and tomorrw..and on the third day, I will reach

  my goal...

   and this......destroy this temple qnd I shall raise it on the third day[lest we forget..man's body is

is God's temple]

...also..in the scriptures of this account..one book says there were two men that come to Jesus..in the

Gadarenes/Gerasenes account..and one recorded one man........'and He will seperate the people

one from another, as a shepherd seperates the sheep from the goats"

    So, children of God..look to the example oof Jesus Christ your Lord..the authour and finisher of

  your faith.   For He shall appear again unto you..seperate from sin

[lastpost]

Thank you friends, you bring me so much closer to He who I adore.

And God said, Let us make man in our image (tselem), after our likeness (damuwth) - Gen. 1:26

God is Spirit - John 4:24

God is Love - 1 John 4:8

The Wisdom and Beauty of the Mind of God is unthinkable, that He makes His children as individuals and yet out of Himself of the same Spirit and Love.

The Spirit itself beareth witness (summartureo) with our spirit, that we are the children of God - Rom. 8:16

Summartureo => to bear witness with, bear joint witness

Now, from a personal point of view, even if I should attempt to put into words what happens when the Spirit and my spirit bear witness, it should fall far short of the reality. I do not presume to speak for any other and their own experience. I do not know if this should be a private thing but I put it here anyway to provide some background and reasoning.

When the Spirit touches my spirit more urgently than usual, they unite as one and yet remain separate – I know I exist but in a way that is not earthly because the Spirit is enlivening my spirit. There is a deep, yearning feeling of active love which surges through me to pour out all that I have – gentle and yet unquestionably powerful, like the Gentle Stranger in Person. I feel the power of the Love of the God who is both Love and Spirit enlivening my very spirit, it passes and pulsates through me, there is such urgency in the calling, the Father Spirit is there and yet the message is overwhelmingly JESUS, and this word is not in English but in a language not of the Earth. It seems to want me to literally shout about the JESUS who has been with me for decades, and I feel I am not doing enough. At this point I am granted a glimpse - just a glimpse - of what it means to be a child of God, the physical body is not the body anymore but a spiritual body, it perceives another view of life with a new sense, different than experienced with the physical senses. The over-powering feeling of being lifted up and up and up fills me with ever more joy and gratitude to the Lord God who owns me for the wondrous things He has in store for His children should they keep His saying. And when this happens the Love involved is Sacrificial Love, the child can feel something of the yearning of the Great God, both pain and ecstatic love intermingled. And the message is to get back to the simple Jesus, follow Jesus the Master Himself. At this time words have no meaning, the words of men are swept instantly away from the mind and His Love simply dominates - Love, giving, never ceasing, and requiring only love in return from a simple heart and an obedient will.

I will say that alcohol has never passed my lips for 17 years and I do not take any form of medication that might play with the mind. All this is much too special to jeopardise with anything like that. The experience of the Spirit is not like any earthly experience and one knows it is of God and so very special, so different from any earthly experience.

I am sorry if this does not fall in with others' ideas of how God, Christ and the Holy Spirit should act with the children of God, but the traditional exclusionary theology is unnecessary. As I understand it, the God who is Love is beautiful and loving and never required any assuaging or any other similar notion. God, the Supreme Being, sent His own Christ as Jesus the Man - not only paying the price of coming to a sin-stained world to take upon His shoulders that heavy weight, but also paying the price of being despised and rejected of men and also paying the price of death, so that His Sacrificial Love would draw all men to Himself. Humanity does not need traditions of men forced upon God, which give to a man the inalienable right only of the Supreme Being. Jesus was the only man to have a pure and spotless Spirit from birth, a man who embodied the fullness of the Godhead within, a man who was the visible representation and expression of the invisible God - but yet a man.

Of course, many of varying persuasions will cry foul because their deeply-held theologies and cleverly-devised philosophies block out the Spirit of Truth, and it is necessary to have a place where those limping from mankind's misrepresentation of Christ's Mission can recover as there is nowhere else for them.

The Lord accounts for the sheep of the theologies which create disunity because they will pass into an age-long life ("I give unto them this Aeonial life") where they will rid themselves of the ideas and notions that they had built up around themselves in their worldly life like a tower that blocked themselves off from their brothers and sisters. Here, if the inhabitants keep His saying they will never see spiritual death all through the Aeon.

God is pouring out His Spirit upon His people regardless of man.

Peace.

[JulieTang84]

Lastpost, the love just flows from your words of wisdom. How refreshing they are.  :dsunny:


I cannot begin to explain my personal transformation, but I will say that I found the person I really am deep within. You said so eloquently that the "physical body is not a body anymore but a spiritual body" and all I have to say to this is: Amen


The more I search, the greater the realization that there is nothing to find that can be found. Love is not lost. Father likewise is not hidden where he cannot be found. Father is Love and he created his children for, in and through Love. We are Love, we are peace and we are light. This cannot be realized by relentless searching, but by just "being."



Psa 46:10   He says, "Be still, and know that I am God (love)........"


I have come also to accept without qualm that without the Love of Father, I am nothing. Should I ever think of myself as anything other than love, then shame on me. But the greatest revelation and I am sure you agree, is that pure Father given Love trumps all. Eternal Damnation is an absolute damnation of thought. Not even Satan voiced anything as horrid as the professed saviours of the world.


Yet, and this should never be forgotten. Father has hardened the hearts of some and blinded them from the truth. Not that they should lose, but rather that we should love. Certainly, we can climb the highest buildings and shout our joy for all to hear, but can it truly be heard?


Our commision is to love and to love uncondtionally, without fear and without stop. Anything and I mean anything that I should do that does not fall within the confines of the aforementioned just makes me a fool. Fool am I to think I am perfect. Loved am I as Fathers child.


Thank you for a wonderful post  :HeartThrob:


Love Julie

[sheila]

   your rigorous bodily training in response to being disqualified, is not so much what concerns me brother.

   For Paul aalso spoke of the taste not touch not mentality.....and balance is so badly needed.

    what qualifies is love..what disqualifies is a lack of it.

        If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels,but have not love,I am only a resounding 'gong'

or a clanging cymbol. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom qll mysteries and all knowledge

and if I have aa faith that can move mountains,but have not love,I hve nothing. If I give all I possess

to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,but have not love,I gain nothing...


     If God's going to use us for a noble purpose..to be a vessel of mercy...BY GOD...we better

  have mercy in us to pour out. If we be a noble vessel...of love..BY GOD we better have some

love in you to pour out.   otherwise..we be but a pretty worthless servant..sitting on the shelf.


   coz I tell you..the sheep won't follow any other voice.............theyv'e been skinned nd thrown about

  by wolves in sheep clothing before.    they been fleeced and preyed upn to0 too long by those that do not

love them and are but hirelings and show them no mercy or love.


  widen out in your love of all men...this is what I say to you...d not despise the face of ny man

     

      what is stopping us from pouring out the love?  is it true  it only requires love in return a simple heart

and obediant will? I think not..for He died for us while we were still in our sinful state...and love your

enemies doesn't sound like a requirement that they love you back..before you pour out the love,mercy

and grce .

      the next time the spirit of Christ fills yu up to overflowing and bubble's up..try pouring some of it out

  on other's...even those 'deemed' of men as undeserving. You will find yourself never empty again.

[lastpost]

Dear Julie and Sheila,

Thank you for your kind sentiments. God is so wise and there is no end to the pouring out of His Love through His children so that they are a reflection of that Light on His behalf of those who know not that Light.

Peace.

[dajomaco]

 Lastpost said
In such a one the Divine essence is suffocated and quenched, the baser elements of the carnal are highlighted, fostered, forced on, developed to improper excess. They achieve absolute dominance, they quench the spirit and extinguish all desire for any progress which has no meaningful purpose. The vice sustains and perpetuates itself, and it drags the rogue who has submitted himself to the animal recreations further and further away from the path of progress, until even the animal becomes diseased and afflicted; the unhealthily stimulated passions seek to devour themselves; and the voice of the spirit is obscured and cannot be heard for a terrible period. Down the soul must sink, down and down, down, further and further, until it is "lost" in all but impenetrable unintelligibility.

The person you describe is the person I cry night after night to the Lord to help.
Some people claim that the sting of sin guides them in their choices.
They say I love Jesus and I am keeping my self-pure because I love him so much. 

I do not love Jesus, I wanted to but I read Paul's definition of Love.
I am left in a position of only being able to receive the Love Jesus gives me.
I am left in a position of only being able to Love the Person you described above.

It is so seductive to say I Love Jesus.
I now tell everyone Jesus Loves me. 

[JulieTang84]

dajomaco wwrote: "It is so seductive to say I Love Jesus.
I now tell everyone Jesus Loves me. "

:HeartThrob:  :HeartThrob:   :HeartThrob:

Oh my goodness, the wisdom on this board is without equal.

I have no concept of perfection, therefore how can I love something or someone I do no know or understand?

Even the love of Christ to ours is separated by a spanse our minds cannot comprehend.

Yes Jesus loves me!!!!! How awesome!!!   :HeartThrob:

Love Julie

[eaglesway]

How could we have been created in the image of God, and in His likeness, if we have no personal will independent of Him? Is He not an independent creative being with intellect, heart, soul and spirit?

As we grow more and more into His image we grow more and more free, until we "graduate" into the glorious liberty of the children of God.


The whole creation groans, eagerly awaiting the revelation of the sons of God, the first-fruits of the new creation, who will set all creation free from bondage/futility, into the same glorious freedom/newness they experience because they dwell/tabernacle/abide "in Him".

God will be all in all first in us, for all those whom He called He also predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, who was also free- constrained only by the love of the Father He bore in His heart, and the love He bore for us on the cross.

[Tom H]

"A man's heart, it devises his way, Yet Yahweh, He establishes his steps." (Proverbs 16:9)

"in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will" (Ephesians 1:11)

http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/HisAchievement016.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/StudiesInPhilippians/Philippians05.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil012.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil013.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil019.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil020.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil021.html

[JulieTang84]

Tom H this whole free will debacle is very interesting  :HeartThrob:


I just had a thought of when I was a child at the dinner table. My dad said you can do whatever you like, but you "will" eat your dinner.  :sigh:


I think this sums up Fathers plan (will) for us all, we can do what we like, but will come to the knowledge of the truth. It is going to happen, one way or another and there is naught we can do about it.


That is a good thing!  :dsunny:


Love Julie

[lastpost]

And God said, Let us make (bara) man in our image, after our likeness

The Omnipotent (all-Powerful) Creator, He who created all Life in every sphere, all laws that govern that Life - the intricate detailed beauty, the manifold wonders of nature, the seemingly endless constellations and galaxies in the physical universe alone that we can perceive - He who Created all that by producing a thought, no less - is not capable of thinking a child into existence with individuality? A child for Him to take pleasure in and love, to produce shades and contours to match the rest of His Creation?

And to make that child out of His own Essence - Divine Essence - how utterly exquisite and all-Generous! Just the thought of such a gift should fill His child with over-whelming gratitude to the Father of spirits.

Man should follow Christ's teaching and become as a little child.

[Tom H]

Tom H this whole free will debacle is very interesting  :HeartThrob:


I just had a thought of when I was a child at the dinner table. My dad said you can do whatever you like, but you "will" eat your dinner.  :sigh:


I think this sums up Fathers plan (will) for us all, we can do what we like, but will come to the knowledge of the truth. It is going to happen, one way or another and there is naught we can do about it.


That is a good thing!  :dsunny:


Love Julie

Well, Julie, I'm glad your dad convinced you to eat your dinner so you could grow up to be an intelligent loving sister in Christ. God bless you and your dad.

[Tom H]

"A man's heart, it devises his way, Yet Yahweh, He establishes his steps." (Proverbs 16:9)

"in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will" (Ephesians 1:11)

http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/HisAchievement016.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/StudiesInPhilippians/Philippians05.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil012.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil013.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil019.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil020.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil021.html

Tom, I'm so happy that you have joined this forum... I'm always looking for commentaries, studies, songs, etc., that are Scripturally sound... I so long to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (Savior of ALL men, especially those who believe) and I am looking forward to reading the above concordant.org url's that you so graciously and generously provided.  Welcome and many blessings on all your efforts t spread the good news.

Thanks for the welcome, Anna. God bless you, sister.

[sheila]

how is man's freewill in the image of God affected when he is sold into sin..simply for nothing[vanity]

  and see the word of God to Abraham about how braham's seed would serve others..until delivered.

   does being sold into slavery affect any man's free will?

   something to ponder...being sold into slavery and being delivered from it of God= into the glorius

freedom of the sons of God.

   and when we are sold int sin..of which the wages are death..we can see Jesus Christ kinsmen redeemer

  that bought us with His blood..to set us free

[lastpost]

Personally, I have always held that Genesis is a parable and that Adam and Eve represent all sinful individual spirits disobeying God by abusing the freewill after God asked them not to grab the shiny bauble of power that the slimy serpent tricked them into thinking would be theirs.

And here we are in our time and there's an "age-long pruning" (aionios kolasin) ahead for those not drawn by His Sacrificial Love demonstrated on the Cross. And those who have been drawn by the Love of God through the Blood given freely by the Life and Sacrifice of His Christ "pass into age-lasting life" δίκαιοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον Matt.25:46

Christ confirms this: "And I give unto them age-lasting life" (κἀγὼ δίδωμι αὐτοῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον - zoe aionios) John 10:28

It is unjust to say "age-long chastisement" (Matt 25:46) for "everlasting punishment" (or "eternal torment") for the unrighteous and then to say in the same breath "eternal life" for the righteous if our objection to an "everlasting hell" is based on the word "aionios" meaning "age-lasting" and not "everlasting" (or "eternal"). (Incidentally, note the previous verses immediately prior - back to the simple Christ).

Ah, still more perfecting to do otherwise He would not have said: "He who keeps my saying all through the Aeon (εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα) will never see death" John 8:51. It is Christ's teachings which will perfect us after all. The Father spoke through Christ Jesus and His teachings remain applicable in all states of being, here or hereafter.

Our Saviour Christ promised His followers a blessed life throughout the Aeon if they should keep His sayings, and we are told of this great Aeon in Ephesians 3:21l: "...the Aeon of the Aeons" τὰς γενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰώνων.

These truly are Glad Tidings! Who could ask for more? That appears to have been the initial problem.

Peace.