Fifth Ecumenical Council not official, Origen's Anthema rejected by the Pope.

[Craig]

Origen was tortured and killed by Roman Emperor Decius in 254 AD. The Anathemiatisms performed by Emperor Justinian in 543 AD, was performed almost 300 years after Origen had passed away. Taught universal salvation by his father, Leonides of Alexandria, Origen's Christian Universalism was actually never anathematized. In fact Christian Universalism was held by five of the seven Catechism Schools up until the Fifth Ecumenical Council in Constantinople.

In fact the anathemiatism was concerning Origen's views, was to combat other teachings that were held by those who claimed to be 'Origenists' but these monks were just a secretive order who just happened to preserve Origen's writings but did not nessesarily hold to his teachings.

In fact, the fifth Ecumenical Council was resisted by the Pope, but the bishops got together and bypassed his authority with Emperor Justinian who by order of the Emperor, the council commenced. They declared heresy of the form of Origenism, which had practically nothing in common with Origen [such as cycles of reincarnation and the Anthropomorphism]. The fifteen anathemas were proposed not by the Church but by the Emperor. The Ecumenical Council was a not official and it's decrees not authorized. There is no proof the Pope ever agreed to them, nor is there proof he ever recanted his resistance to the council. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11306b.htm

The Emperor Justinian eventually convened a council of the whole church on May 5, 553 A. D., known as the fifth Ecumenical Council or the Second Council of Constantinople. MacGregor remarks that 165 bishops signed the acts of the Council at its final meeting on June 2, but he remarks that not more than six bishops could have been from the West.< 65> The Council, then, most certainly could not have been "ecumenical." Because Western bishops were not adequately represented, among other reasons, Pope Vigilius refused to attend. Justinian had Vigilius arrested and appointed Pelagius as the new Pope. Pelagius had previously convinced Justinian to issue the edict condemning Origen in 543. Since Justinian had no real power to appoint a Pope, it is a real question how the decision of the Council could be binding upon the Christian believer. The question is a significant one, for it was at this Council that the preexistence of the soul and its subsequent reincarnation was, or was supposed to have been, universally condemned. Justinian issued fifteen anathemas against the teachings of Origen.

http://essenes.net/OrigenOfAlexandria.html

Why does modern Christianity and Roman Catholicism abide by the fifth ecumenical council? Because it was mistaken to be a decree of an actual ecumenical council and probably adhered to out of fear of Rome! It is recorded and known, that Emperor Justinian like is fathers, used religion as his way of controlling the people. Justinian achieved far reaching victories in the Nicene religious war against classical thought, Christian heterodoxy, and paganism and this was achieved by ruthless imperial decrees, the state support of forced conversions, the continuation of temple destruction, and the use of imperial troops to these ends.

Would you take seriously a council established by the Elected and President body of the United States, to denounce various Christian doctrines they did not agree with? How about if you did not abide by this council, the government would make decrees, and these decrees forced conversations of all American's, burning down churches, killing Christian leaders and enlist the American Military to carry it out? How many people, today, would change their belief system to fit the council's decrees despite it was rejected by men of God, who protested it? Quite alot, unfortunately.

The funny things youf ind, when you research church history.

[Craig]

Origen: Master And Exemplary Witness Of Christianity
VATICAN CITY, APR 25, 2007 (VIS)

In today's general audience Benedict XVI dedicated his catechesis to Origen of Alexandria, a third century historian and "one of the greatest writers" of Church history. The audience was held in St. Peter's Square in the presence of more than 25,000 people.

Origen, said the Pope, "took up the legacy of Clement and carried it towards the future in such an innovative way as to effect an irreversible turn in the development of Christian thought. He was a true master ... and an exemplary witness of the doctrine he transmitted."

The "irreversible turn" effected by Origen, said the Pope, substantially involved "grounding theology in the explanation of Scripture, in other words, the perfect symbiosis between theology and exegesis. Indeed, the characteristic of Origen's doctrine seems to lie in the constant invitation to pass from the reading to the spirit of Scripture in order to progress in knowledge of God.

"This 'allegorism' - to use the words of Von Balthasar - coincided with the development of Christian dogma through the teaching the Doctors of the Church who, in one way or another, learned the lesson of Origen. Thus tradition and Magisterium, the foundation and guarantee of theological research, come together as 'Scripture enacted'."

The Pope recalled how Origen's interests ranged from "exegesis to dogma, to philosophy, to apologetics, asceticism and mysticism" and represented "a fundamental and overall vision of Christian life."

However, the "inspirational core" of Origen's work is "his three-level reading of the Bible." The first reading had "the aim of better identifying the text and presenting the most trustworthy edition. ... This is always the first step," said the Holy Father, "knowing what is written and knowing what historical scripture initially and intentionally meant."

"In the second place, Origen systematically read the Bible ... minutely, broadly and profoundly," adding "philological and doctrinal notes. Finally, ... he dedicated himself to preaching the Bible, adapting himself to a truly assorted public."

Also in his homilies, Origen "took advantage of every opportunity to recall the various dimensions of meaning of Sacred Scripture;" meanings that "assist or express a journey of growth in the faith. There is a literal meaning, but the literal meaning hides profundities that do not appear at first view."

"This second dimension is the moral meaning: what we must do to live the Word." Finally, there is also a "spiritual meaning, in other words the unity of Scripture which, throughout, speaks of Christ. It is the Holy Spirit which helps us understand the Christological content, and so the unity of Scripture in its diversity."

On this subject, Benedict XVI explained how in his recently-published book "Jesus of Nazareth" he had "sought to show ... this multidimensional aspect of the Word of Holy Scripture, which must first of all be respected in a historical sense." Although "this sense is transcended by Christ in the light of the Holy Spirit."

Origen, the Pope continued, "effectively came to promote the 'Christian reading' of the Old Testament, responding brilliantly to the challenge of heretics, above all Gnostics and Marcionites who set the two Testaments against one another and even went so far as to reject the Old Testament."

"I invite you," the Holy Father concluded, "to welcome in your hearts the teaching of this great master of the faith. He reminds us ... that the Church is renewed and rejuvenated in a prayerful reading of Scripture and a coherent life commitment. We pray to the Lord to give us today thinkers, theologians and exegetes who may discover this multidimensionality, this permanent relevance of Sacred Scripture."

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Yh1WyrOwbQMJ:www.catholicweb.com/media_index.cfm%3Ffuseaction%3Dview_article%26partnerid%3D24%26article_id%3D3127+Pope+accepts+Origen&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1

[arcticmonster2003]

hello Craig,

though I have not done my homework on history, I wouldn't believe a word that comes from the website mentioned


http://essenes.net/OrigenOfAlexandria.html

here is another exerpt from that website

"Jesus WAS NOT a Jew or a believer in the Law of Moses! The New Testament IS NOT an accurate portrayal of His life. He was NOT resurrected in his body which was entombed in Jerusalem next to Miriamne and other members of his family."

http://www.essenes.net/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=98

no, i didn't put in all of the capital letters and explantion points, this is how it is at the essenes website

Also this is a gnostic website, they do not believe that the god of the old testament and the god of the new testament are the same god, actually they are a mix of jewish kabbalah, witchcraft, freemasonry, and every other doctrine which involves the "tree of life" and 32 levels/degrees or whatever you want to call them.
I'd say to be careful reading things in a website that thinks the bible is not holy, or to quote the website

"The Unholy Bible of Judeo-Christianity"

http://www.essenes.net/new/subbible.html

remember, though universalist do argue about the existence of ET and dispute interpretation of scripture or translation of scripture, this essenes site throws the whole bible in the trash

be careful, I believe the essenes website is cleverly done to deceive only those who are really, really seeking God, it is I think another line of dogma to take away the simplicity of our salvation thru Christ. Before you know it the will have you whipping yourself (literally). I understand that the history may be true and we need sources to find history and teaching. But I personally won't believe a word from that essenes website.

[Craig]

I didn't get my information from the website. It just happened to have a good quote. In any case, the information I got was from the NewAdvent and CatholicNews websites concerning Origen.

[arcticmonster2003]

OH,  :icon_jokercolor:

[fire walker]

What does the present day Roman Catholic Pope say on the matter? or has the Pope ever said?

There are some who say the next Pope is the last before things change, why do they say this? I haven't studied anything on this so called prophesy about the Pope to know,
would it have anything to do with this 5th
council business on the subject of this thread? and who  or where is this black Pope or sometimes called the hidden Pope of the Catholic Church I have heard some folks mentioning, I wonder what all that is about?

Peace,
Fire Walker

[reFORMer]

At the moment I can't remember the name of the saint from more than a Millennia and a half ago that named all the Popes up until the previous one.  I assume they had a tradition to take the names he listed.  He prophecied that after that there would be an antichrist Pope put in office.  The details of this prophecy are in a book on Catholic Prophecies about the Last Days I can't find.

The previous Pope said in an encyclical that there were enough radicals in the hierarchy that the Bishops could vote in a complete traitor to Christianity.

The "Black," or, "Hidden Pope" is a reference to the head of the Jesuit Order.

[chuckt]

non et'ers and et'ers fellowshiped and worshiped side by side up until that  5th century.

there was no problem between the two until eternal torment became fixed doctrine.

sad....

chuckt

[Craig]

non et'ers and et'ers fellowshiped and worshiped side by side up until that  5th century.

there was no problem between the two until eternal torment became fixed doctrine.

sad....

chuckt

That is right, the 6th Century is the rise of Roman Christianity and the solidifaction of 'eternal torment'.