Exposing fundamentalist thought

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Hi to all, and happy new year too!!  :happygrin:

Of the various things I've been reflecting upon in the Scriptures lately, one in particular is standing out:

Now, the basic message heard from fundamentalist Christian groups seems to be:
"Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

Sounds simple enough.

But then there's Jesus himself talking to a man about inheriting eternal life:

"And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." (Luke 10:27-28)


The interesting thing I would like to point out is that Jesus states that there are things we must DO in order to obtain eternal life.
The fundamentalist, however, claims that NONE of this is necessary. Only believing in Jesus Christ is necessary. But loving God with your whole being, or even loving your neighbor as yourself, is quite unnecessary! Only faith is necessary. Love, and any works related therein, are superfluous.

Perhaps this is where the world is turned off by fundamentalist Christianity, although they are not able to put their finger on it.

Thanks for reading!
Blessings to all out there!
Brian

[friendofmankind]

Three things remain, faith hope and love, and the greatest of these is love.
Knowledge passes, speaking in tounges passes....Love remains.  Its all about love from start to finish...and the world missed it.

[IceDash]

God would care less about faith, but care more about love

For example,

one man love God so much but his faith is weak and he not a good believer, but his love is amazing, he help sick peoples, homeless, went to differant country like africa or muslims country or north korea, he not there for battle of faith  (like my regilion is better than your or Who a better God? allah or Jesus?) he is there to spread love and forgiving

If he was capture by a terrorist and they tortured him for a months, and just before he died, he told them, "I do not hate you but I dislike your action of evil, but I forgive you and I still love you" and that was his last word, and 3% of the terrorist felt bad and quit and start spreading Love around the world

What do you think what happen to the man? he go to hell because of his lack of faith?

NO!!!

He arrived at GOD HIMSELF!

Bless for his heart is pure, for he will see GOD!

The man will be full of treasure of love that is richer than gold or diamond, for the love of God is the most wonderous thing to be in

God said "Well done, your love have help shape the world a small way, this is what I want for the world, to understand the meaning of love, for love is me! without love, is void."





sadly, we do not have that here. it called "realism"

[Jerm]

As I see it, faith is the initial sign of God's revelation of the Gospel to a person.  What follows such a revelation will inevitably be "works" such as love, kindness, mercy, compassion, etc.  If these things do not follow, then I think it is safe to say that the person's faith is not genuine i.e. from God. 

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Brian, of course IMO the books of Matt, Mark Luke etc... are talking to the house of Israel only and at the time of their teachings, Gentiles were out side of the system of eternal life as the KJV puts it, If you want to find quotes of eternal life in Paul's Books, then you wont find works. It is still that we must recieve Revelation first then Grace can work through God's chosen people, All Mankind.

[Paul Hazelwood]

There may be differing perspectives on what fundamental Christianity actually is.   To me the fundamentalists are not frowned upon due to their statements about Jesus, it is their assertions of eternal damnation to anyone that does not adhere to religious proclamations that are satisfactory to them.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Maybe the Gospel of Jesus Christ is different from the Gospel of Paul??

Blessings,
Brian

[HartleyDamboiseII]

W, as long as you remember that gospel means well-message, then JC's Gospel and Paul's go hand and hand with eachother , It IS and was progressive.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Hi Lee,
I've been following your posts even though I haven't answered till now..
I'm trying to understand better why Jesus would have told that young man that if he abided by those two commandments he would see life. Jesus also talks about the "fruits" being an indicator of our "status," and that those bringing forth the "fruits" would be accepted, not those without them. What are these "fruits?" Believing in Jesus Christ?

Blessings to you,
Brian

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Hi Lee,
I've been following your posts even though I haven't answered till now..
I'm trying to understand better why Jesus would have told that young man that if he abided by those two commandments he would see life.(MY-O, is that to see Life, works under both systems, {those saved before Rezz day or at, with JC Matt 27:50-53 is a little example- and those that are to be saved or Made Alive IN Christ At His Coming, which is when He became IN Spirit for All Mankind, After Rezz day}

Jesus also talks about the "fruits" being an indicator of our "status," and that those bringing forth the "fruits" would be accepted, not those without them(MY-O, this is true IF looked at it this way, (MY-O, would not see life in this earth life time But ALL will see life in Some Age.). What are these "fruits?" Believing in Jesus Christ?  The Fruits are listed there somewhere, love, joy, peace, etc... But Belief in JC comes From His father as a gift that you do not have to do nothing to get , But IN MY-O the gift has to be wanted, ie you have to be seeking something out side of self for your guidance as a "starting point"

Blessings to you,
Brian

I hope this answers some of the way "I" think...

Lee Damboise II

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Regardless of how we interpret the "when" and "how" of the life that Jesus came to bring, it seems clear to me that the message of fundamentalism (and much of Christendom) has destroyed the idea that "they will know that you are my disciples by your LOVE" with their doctrine of "believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

It's as though this need for faith (and I'm fully aware of the notion that "without faith it is impossible to please God) has practically eliminated any need for love.

And this is why people are turned off by evangelists. All they do is talk. And their talk is about having faith.

Many corrupt people "believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Yet by their fruits we see that they are NOT true disciples.
So it can also happen in "evangelical" circles.. people with suits and ties, leather-bound Bibles and concordances, elegant church buildings....

SO,

it's as though we must choose one of two roads:

- believe that faith in Jesus Christ is all that is needed. Love for God and man has no real importance for eternity.

or,

- move beyond faith, understanding that to be a TRUE Christian means to walk in LOVE, with one's Creator and with one's fellow man.

BIG difference, IMO!
I don't know if anyone else sees this; to me it explains a lot of what I see in fundamentalist circles. (I point to this group in particular because, on a doctrine-level, I agree with many of their beliefs. But the agreement stops there-- on a "head" level.)


Blessings to all,
Brian

[Kimberlaina]

This just popped into my head while I was reading this, so I don't know how right this is, but . . .

Those of us who believe in UR operate under the assumption that salvation is already complete for everyone, but some people have not experienced its reality yet.  To use an analogy, dinner is cooked and served, but some people haven't come to the table.  Sometimes I believe that Jesus' statements about salvation weren't necessarily dogmatic statements of "do this or else" like Fundamentalists believe, but rather like a road map of how to get to the table where the feast is.  (And a map will look different depending on your starting point.)  I'm assuming this young man was stuck.  He wanted to get to the feast, but he didn't know how.  Maybe loving God and his neighbor were missing from this man's life, so he kept getting lost on the way to the table.  Maybe he had the "believe" thing down, but got stuck on Step 2.  Maybe Jesus would say something else to you or me to tell us how to get there.  It seems that he told others different things elsewhere in the Bible, making Fundamentalists' case very confusing, but perhaps these were individualized instructions tailored to help people overcome their particular struggles to get to the table and experience "the life of the ages."

Just my  :2c:

[Universalist Catholic]

I also have found that many Fundamentalist Churches teach that you go by there rules and accept their doctrine, your good to go.  However if you do not comply with all their rigid rules and strict dogma, you are going to hell.  What I have noticed is that they care more about exterior appearances.  But according to many of them, as soon as you accept Jesus as your personal savior, you are incapable of sin. 

[Beloved Servant]

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

[Universalist Catholic]

Most Fundamentalist Churches also teach to obey their rules and you will be fine.

[Beloved Servant]

The only way to the Father is through the Son with a devoted life of crucified submission to HIS WILL.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Hi guys,
I'm back again, after exploring other forums, battling spiritual battles in the heavens, just like all of you also do!
And it's very gooood to be back!
I saw this thread was still around, and I wanted to share a couple of more thoughts with you all.

I think that if I had been preached a message of "turn or burn" back in earlier days, I would have at some point gotten discouraged in the faith.
The other reflection, is that I have noticed in myself personally, that if I don't look at others around me as ALREADY saved, I begin judging them! Uncanny, but true!

So I read Romans 5 (ALL of it!) and I am reminded that the curse has been broken, no matter who you are, if you're a son-of-Adam, you're free from the curse! Amen!

Don't know if it's the same for any of you, but I'd love to hear from you all!

Blessings,
brian

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  You have to press in to see Christ in them, and it's sometimes not easy! Blessings...

[santikos]

I am new to the teaching of universalism, but now i am not pressured to preach to people and feel guilty if i dont. i do go to a church that mainly focusus on "winning souls". for me i feel free that when i do speak to someone i can focus on the love.