Everybody Callin' on Jesus

[Molly]

CHB, it's his faith, not ours,

Absolutely Molly.  :thumbsup:

CHB

So do you still feel your 'faith is too weak'? :dontknow:

[Nathan]

Seems unthinkable, but he comes from the sky and lands on Mount Olives. He might appear in flesh if needs be, he is able.

That's just it . . why would he need to confine himself back to the flesh again?  There are things I don't think people take under consideration on this particular piece of it.  For one, the reason he came in the flesh was to redeem that part of us back to the Father . . .he used his flesh as the ultimate sacrifice.  If he redeemed flesh back, why are we insisting he should need to return back "in" the flesh that he's already redeemed?  Flesh is not liberating, it's restricting, the freedom is in the spirit, not in the flesh.

Secondly, when he sat down with the disciples for the last time, he said it was with "great" desire that he desired for his time to come . . .as great as what he did at the cross for us was, death was only a part of it.  Remember when he was born, his name was to be called "Emanuel" which means "God with us".  It's been God's desire from the beginning of man, that God could dwell with man . . .that was Jesus' desire that night, he wasn't looking to his death, he was looking to his spirit being poured out upon all flesh so that he could be "in" man.

So . . . if we insist he returns in a body of flesh, where do you think his spirit is?  He couldn't pour out his spirit upon all flesh until after he died because that same spirit was confined to his one body of flesh, but now that it's in all flesh, why would we think it would return back to one body of flesh again?  That's why I wholly beleive that the only body of flesh that Jesus is giong to manifest himself in is a corporate body, with him as the head.  I personallyl don't want to have him return in flesh, I want to go to him in spirit rather than have him come to me in this realm of flesh.

[Nathan]

Nathan, have you ever heard of the Electric Universe?  Its a scientific theory.  Its a theory that goes against the standard cosmological theories, that the universe is run by an electrical circuit.

No, I haven't heard of that, but I can see how that would make sense.

[Nathan]

"We" are that link that completes the circut.

Nathan, what if it is God who is the link that completes the circuit?

CHB

God "is" the powersource of the circuitry , but he's chosen us to be a part of it as we are made in his "likeness".  We are "in" the flesh/negative realm of it, he is in the spirit/positive part of it.  The purpose of a battery is to release electrical current, same as the power of life within us.  But if the circut is broken, the battery retains the energy charge . . .God is the entire battery, through us his current flows.  Our current doesn't flow through him, his flows through us. 

Another way to see this would be to see ourselves as the battery that operates through the same kingdom principles as electricity, but he is the power source that we plug into to be recharged.

[CHB]

CHB, it's his faith, not ours,

Absolutely Molly.  :thumbsup:

CHB

So do you still feel your 'faith is too weak'? :dontknow:

Hi Molly,

Yes, my faith is weak but His is not.

CHB

[Molly]

CHB, it's his faith, not ours,

Absolutely Molly.  :thumbsup:

CHB

So do you still feel your 'faith is too weak'? :dontknow:

Hi Molly,

Yes, my faith is weak but His is not.

CHB

Then why didn't you say that?

I am surrounded by people who have no faith , and also by a few people who have weak faith and want more.

Practically speaking--How can you tell whose faith you have?  How do you know this faith I have is his, not mine?  Is it by the strength of it?  Are you double minded, experiencing both a weak and a strong faith at the same time?  Are you buffeted between both the weak and the strong?

Any amount of faith we have in Christ comes from him.

The bleeding woman had just enough faith to cause her to move heaven and earth to touch the hem of Jesus [the boundary of heaven] because she knew that would heal her.

[thinktank]

Ah faith, has brought me a lot of trouble, faith isn't allways good, sometimes better to be practical.

[CHB]

CHB, it's his faith, not ours,

Absolutely Molly.  :thumbsup:

CHB

So do you still feel your 'faith is too weak'? :dontknow:

Hi Molly,

Yes, my faith is weak but His is not.

CHB

Then why didn't you say that?

I am surrounded by people who have no faith , and also by a few people who have weak faith and want more.

Practically speaking--How can you tell whose faith you have?  How do you know this faith I have is his, not mine?  Is it by the strength of it?  Are you double minded, experiencing both a weak and a strong faith at the same time?  Are you buffeted between both the weak and the strong?

Any amount of faith we have in Christ comes from him.

The bleeding woman had just enough faith to cause her to move heaven and earth to touch the hem of Jesus [the boundary of heaven] because she knew that would heal her.

Molly, I thought it was obvious what I was saying but I guess not. :sigh:

CHB

[thinktank]

Seems unthinkable, but he comes from the sky and lands on Mount Olives. He might appear in flesh if needs be, he is able.

That's just it . . why would he need to confine himself back to the flesh again?  There are things I don't think people take under consideration on this particular piece of it.  For one, the reason he came in the flesh was to redeem that part of us back to the Father . . .he used his flesh as the ultimate sacrifice.  If he redeemed flesh back, why are we insisting he should need to return back "in" the flesh that he's already redeemed?  Flesh is not liberating, it's restricting, the freedom is in the spirit, not in the flesh.


Your kind of contradicting yourself here, I think you are struggling with the issue of the flesh. You seem to think that flesh is evil, but yet say Jesus reedemed our flesh. You seeem to think that if Jesus become flesh he is limited? .Why can't Jesus come back in spirit and turn into flesh? Is this against scripture? What about the time he talked to the disciples on the road? Did they think he was an angel.  No they talked to him thinking he was a man. What about the time he said "He that loveth me we will manifest ourself to him. Jesus is a shape shifter and can change into anything I feel, I hope when I meet him face to face to be able to talk to him as a lion, like in the film the lion and the witch wadrobe, I'd feel more confortable talking to a lion than a man, the lion of the tribe of Judah.
TT

Secondly, when he sat down with the disciples for the last time, he said it was with "great" desire that he desired for his time to come . . .as great as what he did at the cross for us was, death was only a part of it.  Remember when he was born, his name was to be called "Emanuel" which means "God with us".  It's been God's desire from the beginning of man, that God could dwell with man . . .that was Jesus' desire that night, he wasn't looking to his death, he was looking to his spirit being poured out upon all flesh so that he could be "in" man.

There's allways more to learn about the cross, I still feel a lack of understanding in this area.
TT

So . . . if we insist he returns in a body of flesh, where do you think his spirit is?  He couldn't pour out his spirit upon all flesh until after he died because that same spirit was confined to his one body of flesh, but now that it's in all flesh, why would we think it would return back to one body of flesh again?  That's why I wholly believe that the only body of flesh that Jesus is giong to manifest himself in is a corporate body, with him as the head.  I personally don't want to have him return in flesh, I want to go to him in spirit rather than have him come to me in this realm of flesh.

Good news is that you will go to him in spirit. Apostle Paul said we will all change in a twinkling of an eye and meet the lord in the air.

Jude also says that he will return with 10 thousands of his saints to execute judgment upon the ungodly.

[Nathan]

You seem to be mixing things up . . on the one hand you're saying we'll go to him in spirit, then on the other you say ungodly people (literal, natural, physical) will be judged . . which is it?

For me, it's ALL spiritual.  We DO get raptured up into his presence where we can be with him in the spirit and the judgement to the unrighteous is not men, it's the unrighteous MAN "in" MEN.  Huge difference . . .as it is with the entire book of Revelation. 

If' I'm walking in the spirit, I can't very well proclaim death to men . . .men are not in spirit, they are in flesh.  But when I proclaim death to the man in men, then that sets men free instead of sending them into condemnation. 

It would beg the question . . .did the work Jesus did on the cross remove sin or not?  Because for those who still think some form of infliction is still yet to come to people would then say that the cross wasn't enough to cover all sin . . . you have to be spirituallly/physically punished as well . . cuz that's what un-con-dition-al love . . .is all about????  it's not fitting the nature of Love at all.  Love IS . . .forgiveness . . .grace, pardoning .. .love is blind. . .love transcends all dimensions of life.

[thinktank]

I think it's healthy and good for a man to want vengeance, keeping all that anger and hatred inside is not good for a man. The good news in my opinion is that God promises vengeance for us, so we can rest knowing that our enemies will face the judgment of God. This I believe brings great comfort to people when they are suffering under evil people, I know from personal experience that when I directed my anger towards, the vengeance and justice of God, a great evil lifted off me. So instead of directing anger towards the evil people, instead direct the anger at inside of Gods vengeance, that he will satisfy our desire for revenge and that our true enemies will suffer the vengeance of almighty God. Hallelliwia

[Nathan]

Wow . . . what part of unconditional love aren't you getting here .. .if he's asking us to turn the other cheek, you really think he's not going to do the same to our so called enemies?  We're to love those that hate us . . .so that he can turn around and punish them??? 

I think what you're dealing with in this idea that it feels good to see God punishing our enemies is flesh and ego looking for someone to stroke it for them . . .I seriously don't think that's what God intends for us to expect of him at all.  Pure love forgives even those who trespass against us.  God doesn't ask me to do what he's not already done himself.  If I"m to love my enemies it's saying God already does as well.  When God judges, it's out of love, not vengeance.  He as the authority to be a vengeful God, but what he's judging, again, is not the person, it's the carnality that the person is infuenced by.

Ever hear of anyone condeming a handicap person because they are handicap?  They can't help being handicap, that's the way they were born.  People are the same way, God doesn't hate bad people for being bad, it's the realm which we were born into.  What he "does" do is love on the broken mind so that he can heal it . . . the bad we see people do is merely the result of a broken alignment between spirit and soul  . . . sometimes it's very trying to be around a 5 year old when they're not gettng their way, but you don't condemn them  for being their age, you merely love on them and help them mature because that's what the Father does with us.

[Lefein]

I think that is what Thinktank meant by "true enemies" - the carnal influences.

[micah7:9]

I think it's healthy and good for a man to want vengeance, keeping all that anger and hatred inside is not good for a man. The good news in my opinion is that God promises vengeance for us, so we can rest knowing that our enemies will face the judgment of God. This I believe brings great comfort to people when they are suffering under evil people, I know from personal experience that when I directed my anger towards, the vengeance and justice of God, a great evil lifted off me. So instead of directing anger towards the evil people, instead direct the anger at inside of Gods vengeance, that he will satisfy our desire for revenge and that our true enemies will suffer the vengeance of almighty God. Hallelliwia

"I think it's healthy and good for a man to want vengeance..."
Now that alone is absurd to say on a forum that speaks of Jesus.

[Lefein]

I think you all should give him some time to define "vengeance" and look at the context of his post before throwing your glares at him.

[Nathan]

The song to match the title . . . .
EVERYBODY CALLIN' ON JESUS

I DON'T NEED TO GO VERY FAR
TO SEE DEATH EVERYWHERE, IN THE LAND
I DON'T NEED TO TRY VERY HARD
TO HEAR PEOPLE CRY, AGAIN AND AGAIN
  CAN YOU SEE ALL THE DESPAIR 
  PEOPLE GRASPING  EMPTY AIR
  IMAGINE WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE 
  IF THIS WHOLE WORLD COULD SEE THE LIGHT

EVERYBODY CALLIN' ON JESUS, JESUS
EVERYBODY CALLIN' ON JESUS, JESUS
EVERYBODY CALLIN' ON JESUS, JESUS
EVERYBODY CALLIN' ON JESUS, JESUS

WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT IT WOULD TAKE
FOR THE WORLD, TO CALL ON HIS NAME
WOULD WE EVER WANT TO BE CHANGED
IF LUSTS OF OUR FLESH, REMAINED THE SAME
   ONCE WE SEE PAST THE DOOM AND GLOOM
   WE'D SEE HIS LOVE COME SHINING THROUGH
   HE'S USING THE SIGNS WE SEE EVERYWHERE
   TO LEAD THE WORLD INTO POWER THROUGH
   PRAYER

     EVERYBODY CALLIN' ON JESUS, JESUS
     EVERYBODY CALLIN' ON JESUS, JESUS
     EVERYBODY CALLIN' ON JESUS, JESUS
     EVERYBODY CALLIN' ON JESUS, JESUS

     CAN YOU HEAR THAT GLORY SOUND
     EVERYBODY CALLIN' ON JESUS, JESUS
     CAN YOU SEE HIM NEAR YOU NOW
     EVERYBODY CALLIN' ON JESUS, JESUS

     IN THIS WORLD YOUR KINGDOM COME
     EVERYBODY CALLIN' ON JESUS, JESUS
     NOW'S THE TIME YOUR WILL BE DONE
     EVERYBODY CALLIN' ON JESUS, JESUS

[thinktank]

I think it's healthy and good for a man to want vengeance, keeping all that anger and hatred inside is not good for a man. The good news in my opinion is that God promises vengeance for us, so we can rest knowing that our enemies will face the judgment of God. This I believe brings great comfort to people when they are suffering under evil people, I know from personal experience that when I directed my anger towards, the vengeance and justice of God, a great evil lifted off me. So instead of directing anger towards the evil people, instead direct the anger at inside of Gods vengeance, that he will satisfy our desire for revenge and that our true enemies will suffer the vengeance of almighty God. Hallelliwia

"I think it's healthy and good for a man to want vengeance..."
Now that alone is absurd to say on a forum that speaks of Jesus.

Really? I thought this place would be the perfect place to say that. There's little point in speaking grace, by showing menone.

[thinktank]

Wow . . . what part of unconditional love aren't you getting here .. .if he's asking us to turn the other cheek, you really think he's not going to do the same to our so called enemies?  We're to love those that hate us . . .so that he can turn around and punish them??? 

I think what you're dealing with in this idea that it feels good to see God punishing our enemies is flesh and ego looking for someone to stroke it for them . . .I seriously don't think that's what God intends for us to expect of him at all.  Pure love forgives even those who trespass against us.  God doesn't ask me to do what he's not already done himself.  If I"m to love my enemies it's saying God already does as well.  When God judges, it's out of love, not vengeance.  He as the authority to be a vengeful God, but what he's judging, again, is not the person, it's the carnality that the person is infuenced by.

Ever hear of anyone condeming a handicap person because they are handicap?  They can't help being handicap, that's the way they were born.  People are the same way, God doesn't hate bad people for being bad, it's the realm which we were born into.  What he "does" do is love on the broken mind so that he can heal it . . . the bad we see people do is merely the result of a broken alignment between spirit and soul  . . . sometimes it's very trying to be around a 5 year old when they're not gettng their way, but you don't condemn them  for being their age, you merely love on them and help them mature because that's what the Father does with us.

God promises me vengeance and no man will take it from me for vengeance is mine sayeth the lord

Deuteronomy 32:43
Rejoice, you nations, with his people, for he will avenge the blood of his servants; he will take vengeance on his enemies and make atonement for his land and people.

Whether God break the bones of my enemies into a thousand pieces or salts them with fire, that's his business. My faith is, that He will take perfect vengeance in a way that my carnality cannot be satisfied, for I don't know how to satisfy my vengeance via carnality and that is one reason why I had evil in me, but after giving vengeance to God, I can be at peace knowing that however God does it, I will be satisifed, even if that means that there is no pain inflicted, as truth be told having my enemies to suffer pain, I don't think that will satisify, as I hate pain and I don't like people suffering at all, even monsters in films and psycho people, such as Jason in Halloween.

[micah7:9]

"I think it's healthy and good for a man to want vengeance..." ThinkTank


Now that alone is absurd to say on a forum that speaks of Jesus.

Friend I find no love in that statement, wanting vengence cannot be good. however you want vengence. Vengence itself is contrary to Love.

[shawn]

Smug attitudes do not exude love as well.  Lets remember our discussion on the plank within our own eye.   :2c:

On a more positive note, some of the things Nathan speaks about is so foreign to me.  But, some of it is starting to make sense and sink in.  Jesus referred to us as sick...he came for the sick.  Interesting choice of words.  It is certainly food for thought.

[thinktank]

"I think it's healthy and good for a man to want vengeance..." ThinkTank


Now that alone is absurd to say on a forum that speaks of Jesus.

Friend I find no love in that statement, wanting vengence cannot be good. however you want vengence. Vengence itself is contrary to Love.

I agree, Jesus said forgive your enemies, but you cut my quote short, you forgot to finish the sentence, and place

-keeping all that anger and hatred inside is not good for a man"

You cannot snip a piece of sentence out and use it to argue, that's the type of thing that manipilative critics do, when they try to discredit someone or take someones quote out of sentence. People who quote the bible do this all the time, snipping pieces out of chapters to try and prove their beliefs.

Had you kept the full sentence perhaps you would have understood me better. So is it in your opinion good for a man to keep anger inside him?. I guess your answer would be no. If Gods word tells us directly to give vengeance to God almighty, and you disaprove of this, then it seems your problem is with the scripture more than me.

If I give my vengeance to God almighty on a plate and say a great evil lifted off me, then how come you say I seek vengence? :dontknow:

Hebrews 10:30
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.


Look and see, Micah, Nathan and co a direct scripture which speaks exactly what I'm trying to convey

Romans 12:19
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.


Romans 3
4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

5But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)

6God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

7For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

8And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

[micah7:9]

I will retract the snipet that I quoted, still I do not see not agree with your thinking.

Hebrews 10:30
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

So I must ask what are YOU doing with the vengence that belongs to Him in the first place?
Romans 12:19
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Yes vengence will arise in a man, but I do not see how it is "healthy and good."

[Miriam]

I am a bit mindblown with the idea that he is not going to return physically but that his return will be (or is?) is us.

I'll add that to my ever-growing list of topics to explore.  :bigGrin:

[micah7:9]

Thus the word "repent" G3340
metanoeō
From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

[thinktank]

I will retract the snipet that I quoted, still I do not see not agree with your thinking.

Hebrews 10:30
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

So I must ask what are YOU doing with the vengence that belongs to Him in the first place?
Romans 12:19
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Yes vengence will arise in a man, but I do not see how it is "healthy and good."

Thank you for retracting.

You asked what am I doing with the vengeance that belongs to Him in the first place?

I'm not sure what you mean by that as I have already explained that I have given that vengeance to Him. If however you are being critical and cold and think that at no point should I as a Christian ever have the feeling of vengeance in the first place, then maybe you lack experience in this area and have not experienced consistent attacks from the enemy, in that case I don't think you are qualified, as I have also seen your posts to Michelle and you seem to overlook her painful past, and lack dare I say patience, not in your whole being, only you know that, but only possibly in this regard.

I say it's healthy and good for a man to want vengeance because the only other possible reaction is to deny the feelings and cut them off, I don't think that in psychology that this is a healthy way to deal with the problem, I know this from personal experience. It might work for some people and it may help people to get by, but what I'm saying is that "pretending" to be ok and not dealing with the problem is not healthy and good, in other words supressing anger only builds it up. Forgiving the enemy is one option to get rid of the anger and this has worked for me on most things after praying about them, but when it comes to extreme things, forgiveness does not come easy at all, it is a never ending battle, countless years of prayer, but the scriptures say and do call for us to give vengeance to God and this has helped me much more than forgiveness. This is a spiritual battle, the devil is more affraid of vengeance of God than forgiveness and it helps remind dark forces, not to mess with Gods people, because every time they do evil, God promises to recompense. That to me means that

1. God values my right as a person in His image of great value
2. He will bring justice and will satisfy His people's hearts

It has nothing to do with what my carnal will desires, let's say for example my carnality desires to punch my enemies a thousand times, will God bring this to pass? It is not the evil desires that God brings to pass, but satisifies our vengeance by healing the heart and removing ill feelings, he will do this as the scriptures says by bringing vengeance through His perfected way, not our way, which never satisfies in any case.

So let's say God way of vengeance to explain in simplest form possible is too simply to slap my enemy across the face once, will I be screaming is that it?. If I did say that then God did not fullfill his promise of repaying. His promise is to fullfill our hearts regardless of how He takes vengeance.

Peace through Jesus