Walking without feeling

[cammy]

I am in a place where I haven't heard from the Holy Spirit for quite a long spell. I went through a time where He would show me things and speak to me, using the scriptures as a witness, but now, silence!

The things I have received from the Lord are the building and structure of my faith and that faith is put to the test. There are times I wonder, have I sinned? but I don't see any sin per se. So, it is time for me to grow and sink my roots down like a tree does through winter and has to bear the elements. It takes a lot of reckoning the truth and to stand in it on this journey.

Has anybody experienced this type of experience in their walk?

Cam

[redhotmagma]

Yes, right now I'm coming out of it.  I am of the opinion that the separation is self induced (at least for me).  The Lord has been showing me how to eat from the tree of life, instead of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  Whats hard is that the knowledge that I'm seeking is good, its all seeking to know Him better, but...  when I stop listening to the HS, and trying to go it alone and find something that satisfies my brain, instead of where He leads me I feel like this:

Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God or give him thanks, but they became futile in their thoughts and their senseless hearts 44  were darkened. 1:22 Although they claimed 45  to be wise, they became fools 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image resembling mortal human beings 46  or birds or four-footed animals 47  or reptiles.

I think the very essence of idolatry is us trying to be the head. 

[rosered]

   Hi Camm and Rhm..
  yes ''ditto'' same here      these two scriptures seem to go together
  we are like the   one lost sheep from the gathered    perhaps


Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Mat 18:12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
:HeartThrob:

[cammy]

Thanks for your replies redhot and rose. I don't know that I am trying to be the head. I feel a bit like the woman searching for the lover of her soul. What I hang onto is what the Lord told me a long time ago, "I will never leave you nor forsake you". This steadies me and encourages me to suffer yet still even when all is silent. It shows me too, that the Lord means everything to me, especially when He seems to be away.

Cam.
:2c:

[Molly]

26And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

--Gen 32

Ask for God's blessing.




Jacob had sent his family on ahead of him and he spent the night alone. We have no idea why he did this. Did he want to think? To pray? To hide? We don't know. What we do know is that "a man wrestled with him until daybreak". The two wrestled all night and then suddenly Jacob's opponent touches the socket of Jacob's hip and his hip was wrenched or dislocated. Jacob still refused to give in and pleaded for a blessing from his opponent.

So, who was this man? In verse 30 Jacob says, "He saw God face to face." In the book of Hosea there is a reference to this incident,

In the womb he grasped his brother's heel; as a man he struggled with God. He struggled with the angel and overcame him; he wept and begged for his favor. (Hosea 12:3,4)

Jacob was encountering God in some fashion in this account in Genesis 32:22-32. Some have suggested that Jacob fought with the "Angel of God" that we read about in Genesis 18. At that time we suggested that the being may have been a pre-Bethlehem appearance of Jesus. Whoever it was, it was a representative of the Lord.

Why Would God do This? I view this whole experience as somewhat of an object lesson for Jacob and for you and I. Jacob was standing between his past struggle with Laban and the impending struggle with Esau. God comes at this time because he wants Jacob to realize that his real struggle all along has been with God.

Notice that we are not told that Jacob wrestled with a man . . . . the man wrestled with Jacob. Is this significant? I think so. It shows us that God is the initiator of this conflict. He starts it. F.B. Meyer writes,

It was as though God knew it was his only chance. He wanted to lift jacob up to a new royal life, and so He actually wrestled with him as though to compel him to yield to Him.

How Could Jacob Fight a Supernatural Being to a standstill? How is it possible that our Lord, or an Angel, could not overpower Jacob (v. 25)? It is an important question. Is God bound by man? Is God ever left helpless?

I want you to notice something. The man (or angel) had the power to disable Jacob at any time. When it began to get light and the angel wished to leave, all he had to do was touch his hip socket and it wrenched it out of place. The Hebrew word can mean "dislocated". If the man could win whenever he so desired, why didn't he? I would suggest that it was because the struggle was necessary for the growth of Jacob.

This angel battled and endured with Jacob for the entire night until Jacob was exhausted. I suspect the angel would gain a little advantage and then allow Jacob to feel that he was gaining. This went on and on all night long. How exhausted they must have been. But it was necessary. Jacob needed to reach the point where he had no more strength.

I believe it was at this point that the man touched Jacob's hip. The message was clear . . . you have striven with all your might. Yet, I can with one touch defeat you. Jacob needed to see the superiority of his opponent with clarity.

Jacob knew the right words and could perform the right actions . . . but his heart still was not completely the Lord's. It's easy to have superficial faith. However, a crisis forces us to grapple with our real feelings and our true faith. God provokes this crisis to bring Jacob to a point of genuine faith. When Jacob called out for a blessing from God, the wall had been broken through.

God did not just want Jacob's worship. He wanted his heart. And He wants the same from us.

Why Does the Angel Ask Jacob for His Name (v.27)? Do you find this question at all odd? I do. The man knew who he was wrestling with . . . didn't he? And if this is God's agent (and we believe it is) shouldn't he already know the man's name without having to ask it? Listen to Ravi Zacharias as he explains this,

Think of all that God could have said by way of reprimand. Instead He merely asks for Jacob's name. God's purpose in raising this question contains a lesson for all of us, too profound to ignore. In fact, it dramatically altered Old Testament history. In asking for the blessing from God, Jacob was compelled by God's question to relive the last time he had asked for a blessing, the one he had stolen from his brother.
The last time Jacob was asked for his name, the question had come from his earthly father. Jacob had lied on that occasion and said, "I am Esau," and stole the blessing. Now he found himself, after many wasted years of running through life looking over his shoulder, before an all-knowing, all-seeing heavenly Father, once more seeking a blessing, Jacob fully understood the reason and the indictment behind God's question and he answered, "My name is Jacob." "You have spoken the truth," God said, "and you know very well what your name signifies. You have been a duplicitous man, deceiving everyone everywhere you went. But now that you acknowledge the real you, I can change you, and I will make a great nation out of you."

Greatness in the eyes of God is always preceded by humility before Him. There is no way for you or me or anyone else to attain greatness until we have come to Him. [Ravi Zacharias, Can Man Live Without God p 144,145)

God asked Jacob his name not because He didn't know it . . . He wanted to know if Jacob knew it. He wanted to know if Jacob was ready to come to grips with who he really was or whether he was going to continue to fight the Lord.

This is the point everyone needs to arrive at. We need to realize that we are the problem and we need someone to change us. It is then, and only then, that we receive our new name. In Jacob's case he was given the name "Israel" which means "He struggles with God" or "God Prevails". His new name was a reminder of this encounter and the lesson that we need God.

And to everyone who believes today God gives a new name also. We are changed from "sinner" to "saint". From "rebel" to "friend". From "enemy" to "son".

Why Did God hurt Jacob's Hip? I think the answer to this question is simple: the scars remind us of what we have learned. Just like a wedding ring reminds us of our promise of commitment, so our scars remind us of our need for God.

http://www.unionchurch.com/archive/100399.html

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Oh yeah.....He has to dry up (finding Him) in the "old", to get us to press in for something new. Like Elijah experienced when He dried up the river to get him to move on. Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

Same here, of course.
It is a faith builder and a blessing.
Continually call on His name.

[Beloved Servant]

The sons of God are led by the Spirit.
We should walk without feeling.
The moment we try to reason things in our own mind Satan will twist it immediately!

[rosered]

good thoughts everyone  :HeartThrob:  wow , some times  these thoughts torment me much worse than being in a literal prison , I cannot run away from myself ... :sigh:  tried , it dont work that way 

Thank God for His faithfulness towards us all  amen  :HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Ain't it the truth, Rosie...... :laughing7:  Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt myself.  :msealed:

[cammy]

Thanks to all for your insight. Molly, your story about Jacob is really good. I don't know that I am backslidden in any way. I left a small group in the States five years ago who believe they are the only ones that God has on earth. They were very extreme and radical but I was completely indoctrinated. I left under a cloud of threats of dire consequences and fatal folly. Because I was so indoctrinated, I have felt a burden of guilt and now, with the Lord being so quiet, it makes me wonder if He is angry with me for leaving. It's a constant battle for me to keep my head above water and has dropped me into depression and anxiety and I'm on a bucket load of medication.

I intend to follow Christ even if He were to condemn me. One thing for sure is, I can't go back there.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to answer.

Cam.

[Molly]

Hi Cammy,

That's interesting about the group you left.  I'm wondering if that has something to do with how you are feeling.  Were there a lot of fireworks in that group all the time? A lot of input, a lot of energy?

I don't know your situation at all but that Jacob story just fell into my head as I read your first post.  It was that verse about asking for a blessing.  And the idea of 'wrestling' with God.  That word 'wrestling' is a strange one:

"wrestling"
H79
אבק
'âbaq
aw-bak'
A primitive root; probably to float away (as vapor), but used only as denominative from H80; to bedust, that is, grapple: - wrestle.

H80
אבק
'âbâq
aw-bawk'
From root of H79; light particles (as volatile): - (small) dust, powder.


Jacob wants something from God so much that he fights with this angel all night and won't let go.  But, what God gives him must have been a surprise--a new name, and by that, a new nature, and a new relationship with God, dust taken up in the whirlwind.


Tonight you are talking again about how God is being quiet.  It sounds like that surprises you, like whatever is coming from Him to you is too quiet for you to hear.  I was thinking this might be in response to the big booming noise of God from your group.  But my God is very quiet.   I have to strain to hear him.  I have to ask for blessings.  I ask him to show me [just a little piece of] his glory every day.  I like quiet.  It's peaceful.  It's very personal.

Could it be that he is taking you to a new quiet place of intimacy?  Ask him.

1 Kings 19:11-13

11And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:

12And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

[cammy]

Hi Molly

Yes, there was a lot of revelation nearly all the time. The group were into guns as well, ex militia people. You could say that they are dangerous but there was much gravity given to "hearing the Lord's voice" and if the Lord was quiet, He was displeased with you. The whole thing was a nightmare.

Cam.

[jabcat]

... be content with such things as you have: for he has said, I will never leave you, nor forsake you.  Hebrews 13:5

If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.  Psalm 139:8


Search me, O God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts.  Psalm 139:23

You are my hiding place and my shield; I hope in your word.  Psalm 119:114

Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near;  Is. 55:6

[cammy]

jabcat

Great verses! Thanks

Cam.

[jabcat]

you're welcome.  i wanted to comment, but just really felt led to let the Word speak for itself.  God bless.   :bigGrin:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Condemnation is not of God, cast it down. You're right where He wants you, no more voyeurs in the matrimonial chamber, trying to bring you under subjection to the god THEY serve, just you and Him.

Now just start loving Him back, and like David said, encourage yourself in the Lord daily. Think of his past exploits and those on your behalf. It's impossible to stay depressed when you glory in the Lord and focus on the goodness of God. I know, I've had enough thrown at me in life to kill 10 men, BUT GOD......  :HeartThrob: