Can We Be Jesus... Yes.

[donken]

I would like to say right away that Jesus was one with God just so any reader might not get the wrong impression of what I am trying to impart.
We can be, and must be just like Jesus in this world.  Man is going to be Jesus Christ in spiritual maturity.  Man has been growing up in the creation over many many eons of time.   Jesus Christ is still the "only man" that ascends to heaven\eternal life.   What I am doing here is attempting to help us see we can and must all be like Jesus Christ right here in the creation.   When Jesus said we are to be where he is, he is not talking about a physical location, he is talking about his Spiritual condition, one with God.

Peter said we were to be partakers of the divine nature.  This passage does not say we are to be "some" of the divine nature, it says we are to be THE divine nature.  The divine nature is who God is.   God's name is everything God is.  I am that I am.  I am everything that I am, and that is God's name.  For instance, knowing the name of a person or knowing that there is a God does not identify the person or God for our understanding.  To know spiritual attributes, we must experience and live "in" those attributes as who we are for a time.  We will live with and as all of the attributes of Eternal Life when we are all "saved" as scripture calls it, or when we are all ONE WITH GOD.   One means one.  In mankind often one means of agreement of mind about some idea of ideal, but it does not mean one in everything.  Every thought, every desire, every understanding, etc.  ONE, a true one, the exact same SPIRIT.

We want to hear the word "one" as God means it and not as man usually means it.  With God, one means exactly the same, many persons but all the very same mind and spirit.

Rom_15:6  That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co_12:13  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Eph_4:4  There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

2Pe_1:4  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of **the** divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

What I would like to offer is that we "can" be and will be just like Jesus Christ in the completion of what God is doing and set out to do before the world began.  The creation is still being formed and will continue to be growing and completed for all of the time in the creation.

Jesus died.  He gave up the ghost, scripture says.  God can not die.  Jesus was the body, and yes the father was IN Him.  But Jesus also said that his father was greater than he.  That in itself "can" show us that Jesus was saying he was not "equal" with God because God is "greater".  But Jesus was one with the father, and so can we become one with the father.  The father is everything the divine nature and mind is.  We are to be partakers of the divine nature, Peter says.

We are not to only be partakers of some of the qualities or attributes of the divine nature, we are to be partakers of {all of} THE divine nature.

Scripture says that Jesus was born of a woman.  God is not born of a woman.  But... we who are born of a woman physically, including women, can and will all become who Jesus Christ is "in the flesh" body.  The flesh body is then THE SON who is born of God and the woman { spiritual deception, ignorance, immaturity} dies or perishes as we obtain that maturity.   The body is or will then be who God is "in nature and mind", in SPIRITUAL THINGS.

Jesus is the man.  Christ is God.    Scripture tells us that Jesus GREW and was BORN.   God is.  God does not grow and God is not born, God always IS.

I am not saying Jesus was not a witness of His Father, God.  I am saying that God is creating something {man} and giving man eternal life forever to be FILLED with God, one with God by being everything God is, and the body will be the SON that was born of God and is with God in His throne and Kingdom.  The body or creation that is to be the son is AFTER the father.  Therefore, although scripture says that the son is one with the father and always was with the father, it is speaking about the SON, born by God, is WHO THE FATHER IS spiritually, in nature and wisdom.  But the body is the INCREASE of and into the Kingdom, THE SON.

But.. the son {body} must actually be who the Father is before "going to heaven\eternal life" and being free from the restraints of time and space without the law of sin in existence in the son any longer.

Jesus died.  If God, who is eternal life, did die, who would be around to "raise Jesus from the dead".  Jesus is\was the body the new creation or addition to eternal life.  THE SON who is one with the father and since the son becomes filled with the father, eternal life, then who the son is is who the father is in nature and wisdom also, and therefore was\is always with the father.

In the natural world, every son or daughter is always with the father no matter when they are born.  Ie.. the dna of the child is with the father but the mother also has a contribution to the child's DNA.   The Spirit {GOD is the only Spirit that leaves the father} leaves the father and comes to the "church" {the flesh body as the "woman"} and they two become ONE FLESH.   This is what JESUS WITNESSED.   Jesus was the body, and the body {Jesus} DIED.  The life in the body, called "the ghost", LEFT the body.  The "ghost" did not die and in fact when a person dies physically in this world the life they lived by and with is still here in other people, never leaving ADAM until ADAM as the body become Jesus is mature.   We are all part of that one man, natural Adam.  We will all be and must be who Jesus is in the flesh BEFORE we are able to be called "perfected or completed".

Every person, no matter what gender, will be who Jesus Christ is when anyone becomes the full maturity of Jesus while in thei world in their flesh body.  Like coffee in a cup, a thimble, a saucer, a glass, all vessels will still be called a vessel of coffee.  So will all who are the fullness of God within, as who the Spirit of the body is, will be THE SON born and raised of and by God WITHIN.   Jesus said, the Father is IN Him.   So, what is it that the father is IN?  If the father is IN something, then that which the father is in is not as great as THE FATHER and is the container or vessel the father is in.

The completed or perfected vessel {mankind} is the body {temple} OF GOD.  It is of God in more ways than one.  It is formed and completed by God who existed before the body did and is now a body of God in the creation, and is then the SON that is one with the father in desire, nature, will, and wisdom.  As Jesus said, it is the FATHER in him that does the works, and without the father {life} he could do nothing.  {ie.. not be alive}.

Jesus died.  I am sure that every Christian reading this, if they even read this far, believes that truth.  Jesus died, and it was the body that died, God did not die.
This is our hope and in fact is now becoming our understanding and will become our factual existence.  The body is the "creation" that will be added to the kingdom of God as the increase of the kingdom God but the body will fully be who the contents or Spirit that the body now is one with, IS.  One with the FATHER.

God does not have a father, but Jesus said plainly, MY FATHER is greater than I.

Jesus is the example of what the completed or perfected mankind will be and will always continue to grow to become Jesus the Son that is with the father.

By continue to grow, I mean, mankind will continue to have children in the creation but the children and man will not die any longer once Christ is fully lord in the creation.  By saying that I mean, every baby will be assured of becoming Jesus Christ as a mature grown adult man and will not die before becoming completed.
We see in Isaiah 65 that the child plays on the hole of the asp and that satan still eats dust in the new world, but they do not "fall into the pit" and death is not victorious any more because maturity will be attained by all who are born physically "in the new world".  It will still be this planet and this universe.

There are more examples that God is actually creating something here and it did not always exist with God but was always with God in the sense that God coule create at any time and the finished creation would always be given eternal life, the FATHER IN IT.  We are all being fathered BY LIFE, and in life we all move, and live, and have our being.  Otherwise, we would not exist...or have no being, be unable to move, and would be "dead" or not having any life at all.

The body is the increase to the kingdom but the "king" is always the same and always was and since the body\temple\increase is the same spirit that always was\is, eternal life, there is no SPIRITUAL increase.  There is just an increase of vessels, but not of Spirit. Thus, ONE SPIRIT and HE who always is, without father or without mother.  But the BODY or TEMPLE of GOD does have a father, the mother {ignorance, flesh, immaturity} dies in the birth and maturity of THE SON OF GOD.   The story of Rachel and the second born son of the same father and mother.   The mother in this instance, spiritually, is the flesh man or natural adam.

It is the ignorance and immaturity and lusts of the flesh that perish but not the flesh body.  Must like childhood perishes to mature adulthood in the world, the child being no more but the same person is still alive and mature.    The old man dying and becoming the new man is the same image.  Immaturity and ignorance and "ungodlike behaviours" perish as man becomes the fully mature Son of God in the creation.   The child is no more, but the child has become the adult son.

IF anyone even believes or sees something in this post, then I hope they can understand the day of the Lord is upon us, like dawn, but still THE DAY.
The day is when we begin to see with the eyes of our understanding what God has been doing from the beginning of the creation and always intended to do.
The creation, mankind, has to be completed and finished WHERE THE CHANGE and creating is still going on until FINISHED or perfected.  More examples can be given but this is too long already.

God bless, Donken

[jabcat]

Donken, check your Private Messages.  Thank you.

[joeteekay]

I do not agree with some of what Donken has written.   :2c:

:declare:   

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Donken, when you get done with Jab's request, I'd like you to explain what you mean here. Thanks....

[The "ghost" did not die and in fact when a person dies physically in this world the life they lived by and with is still here in other people, never leaving ADAM until ADAM as the body become Jesus is mature.   We are all part of that one man, natural Adam.  We will all be and must be who Jesus is in the flesh BEFORE we are able to be called "perfected or completed".]

And am I understanding you right on this point? You're saying, the physical bodies are the increase of the Kingdom of God, and the Spirit is not increased. Said the pot to the kettle, some of your writings are very hard to follow  :winkgrin:  Blessings....

[marie glen]

hi! I believe there is great simplicity in God's plan.. I agree that He is still creating what it is He is creating.. and what I believe He is creating is an eternally un-breakable paradise. Un-breakable for it will be deeply engraved upon every, heart, mind and psyche, that God iS Life and to wander from Him comes to no good.. Cannot actually be done and still find one self a part of life.. I do not believe God will 'lose' anyone.. but I believe He is showing us the possibility that COULD BE - as showing all what they absolutely cannot ever do.. which is cannot ever wander away from God. Cannot choose other than how God chooses, etc.

I believe that is the aLL important lesson of this life. Learning good from evil, which is - life from death/nonlife. (Also is true from un true. Only TRUE can stand. Will stand, in the 'end'. Anything else can only fall. To wander from God would be to cut ourselves off from life!! Big, aLL pervasive lesson, don't do it!!)

The whole monkey wrench / Pandora's box, was His endowing of thinking ability to angel and man.

Why??? did He wait SO long and only create the universe and man and woman not only after the first bound to occur rebel thought occurred, but after that thought had matured into outright deceit, trickery and sedition??

Didn't He know what would happen? hahah!! of course He did! But He has done all things eXactly as He has in order to bring about the best of all possibilities. He waited, so aLL could take this unavoidable journey (and lesson) all together.. rather than one wander away now, another later, and another, later and so on taking virtually for 'ever'..

Why is thinking ability a Pandora's box? Because with it comes the ability to choose - therefor a whole new world (or tree) of possibilities came to be..

imo, God is life aNd Perfection.. to wander away from Him and, or what He chooses in any teeny way, is to become imperfect, the opposite of life. Hence death and life as we presently know it. And thus, all suffer, some even terribly.

But! He iS life, therefor He suffers, lives through and experiences aLL sufferings which eveR occur!!

Why??? would He put Himself through aLL that?? Perhaps because He's not creating an ant farm, or robots, but His very own family, of many beautifuL branches, and an eternally un-breakable paradise..

Un-breakable for aLL ("in heaven and earth") will fully understand good from evil / life from death.. that to wander from God is to wander from death.. hence all will know it cannot be done! Un-breakable for this will be deeply engraved upon every heart, mind and psyche..

"We shall be like Him" but I think we are all the same human condition since Abel, since Peter and Paul.. I believe man's ways will crash, as all untruth and all built upon untruth can only crash.. I believe it iS tHe lesson. the all important foundation lesson. The foundation of what it is He is creating. I do not believe the world nor man is evolving. I do not believe man will be successful in attaining world peace.. cannot make paradise apart from God. I believe God will make paradise. He big, all important.. us..? not. I think we deceive ourselves to think otherwise and I think there is great danger in thinking we are anything wonderful, until His return, then we shall "put on immortality and incorruption" until then we are still not incorruptable...imo, and "humility is" (for us a very important) "fruit of the Spirit"..

Peace! :hiya:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: @ donken....if you prefer you can reply to my question by PM. Just so you know, it was not a "trick question". I am sincerely asking you to explain how you see that....Blessings... :dsunny:

[donken]

I do not agree with some of what Donken has written.   :2c:

:declare:

Hello Joeteekay.  Would you like to elaborate on what specifically, or is there just too much you do not agree with or accept.?  Thanks,

[donken]

:cloud9: Donken, when you get done with Jab's request, I'd like you to explain what you mean here. Thanks....

[The "ghost" did not die and in fact when a person dies physically in this world the life they lived by and with is still here in other people, never leaving ADAM until ADAM as the body become Jesus is mature.   We are all part of that one man, natural Adam.  We will all be and must be who Jesus is in the flesh BEFORE we are able to be called "perfected or completed".]

And am I understanding you right on this point? You're saying, the physical bodies are the increase of the Kingdom of God, and the Spirit is not increased. Said the pot to the kettle, some of your writings are very hard to follow  :winkgrin:  Blessings....

Hello Cardinal.       The scripture says that Jesus gave up the ghost.  That means he gave up LIFE.  Abraham and others in scripture have the same thing said about them when they die. Jesus died.  Meaning, he did not have life "in him" when he died.  He died by the life leaving his body, or... the ghost being given up.

The life that was in Jesus is the very same life that is in everyone else in the world and when one living person dies the life they lived by as a human body is still here IN OTHER PEOPLE who are not dead.   The life never leaves the creation, just the body of the creature dies.  We are all alive by one life here, passed on from vessel to vessel at conception.   If you believe that Jesus died, then the father was not in him anymore and Jesus is the body from the ova of Mary.

IF God was dead when Jesus died, then who would be around to raise Jesus' body by returning life to him, in his body?  Life is the father of all living, and it is in the spirit of life by which we all move, live, and have our being.  Without life in us we can do neither good or evil.  It is life {Christ} that is in spiritual captivity to our carnal ways when we use life to do works of death, and Christ {God} is going to free us from desiring or doing evil and have us keep the life and do good only always, eventually.  We are growing up just like human babies grow up to become adults, only with GOD it is spiritual.

Jesus' words are the way to the  truth about the life that is our father.
Life is alive all by itself and does not need a body to exist and be alive.

The body at spiritual maturity is always going to be Jesus Christ and the life {Spirit} in that body will always be the nature of GOD, which is God, when the body is mature and does not "sin" or do immature things any more.  We are set free by BEING THE SON ourselves.

And yes, the body or the people that are the body are the increase, the NEW thing added to eternity, but the LIFE is the same life as it always was/still is.

So the bride\body is increased in numbers, but the Spirit of GOD is already always "alive".  Life has no beginning and no end and never was ever dead or ever will be dead, or... never will be "not life".  Life is "alive"   God is Spirit Jesus said.  God is invisible, scripture says, and we can see that the life in us is spirit and is invisible.  Jesus shows us what life is like when it is in a mature son\body in the creation.   Jesus was tempted in all points like as we, scripture says, which is tempted by the lusts of the flesh and the carnal mind.   Ie. jump off this cliff ets.   Men have experienced these kind of thoughts as well, have they not?

And I do appreciate that my writing is often hard to follow because naturally, you are not aware of the foundational point I write from and also I write\type quite fast and sometimes I am not very conversationally clear.

I will go on a bit.  When a man and a woman cleave together, using bible terminology, they are really only ONE in the OFFSPRING.  Ie.. the dna of both is in the children and the man and the woman are still really two different people physically.  So, the Spirit cleaves to the Flesh, and the TWO become one FLESH.

I emphasize one FLESH.  So.  IS the flesh then going to perish if it is ONE with eternal life, the father.   

When a human baby is conceived and through an evolutionary process of gowth in the womb comes to term and is born, the adult parents are DEAD IN THE BABY.  By that I mean, the maturity, knowledge, and physical muscular ability of the parents are not "alvie" or in existence in the new baby or the child when the baby becomes an older child.  What the parents do, as a parable for us to understand our growth over time into the maturity of Jesus the Christ of GOD, is "resurrect their own maturity, knowledge, schooling, manners, and physical ability in the child.  In that manner, we can say that the adult every child is to be is not apparent in the child when the child is not an adult.  The adult the child will be SLEEPS in the child....ie.. human maturity and worldly knowledge will be awakend in the child at the appointed time.  Let us say, at 21. But we know there is still much growth to go on in a human being long after reaching 21.

This is what dead in Christ means.  Christ Jesus, the mature Son of GOD we all will eventually become, SLEEPS in us... or... using bible language, we are dead IN CHRIST "the promise".

This is what the resurrection is really all about and GOD is simply raising up Himself in His son in the creation to then finish the rest of the creation from within it.

That is a good part of the foundation I explain from.   The BEGINNING of the creation of God is Jesus Christ.  Jesus is "created", but the spirit or personality{ I will say here the nature} Jesus will be is NOT created, it always was and is.  Every attribute and all the wisdom of everything that God is is who God is.  The I AM that I AM is that God is everything that HE is and a single or individual name will not identify WHO HE IS.

Scripture says that Jesus was slain "from" the foundation of the world.  His walk and death in Israel only shows us "how and to what it is that he died".  In humanity, the adult the child comes from is not able to be seen in the baby.  Thus, the adult is slain from the beginning of the existence of the created thing, in this case, the baby.

God bless, donken.  P.S.  I did not ever think anything is a trick question.  Never entered my mind.  Thanks.  I just did not know if the discourse was okay to be public since I got the questions via private message.    DK

[dajomaco]

Donken
What is the significance of the year 2014?

[donken]

Hello Dojomaco.   Re 2014.  Nothing particular, it is just the year that these things are happening, or beginning to happen in a much deeper and clearer way.

In the story of Joseph in Egypt, the people of his brothers did not know him and he spoke to them by an interpreter, even though Joseph knew what they were saying.    They could not know him until they brought the younger brother, Benjamin back with them.   Then of course the brothers left Joseph with Simeon {hearing} with them, and Benjamin had the cup in his sack.  When the cup was found they came back to Joseph and he showed them who he was.  How do we know Jesus clearly.  Only by being circumcised "fully" in our heart and mind, the tares being bound.

And, we begin to understand that all mankind and us today have that SAME CUP that Jesus had to drink of even though he asked to have it removed.  It was only removed by drinking it all until empty.   We begin to see to day that we are to walk like Jesus and accept the cup of Jesus' blood in and as our body in the world, and we are to eat the bread of affliction the way Jesus did, IF it comes to us in the world.  This is mature or "grown up" understanding.  We are to be exactly like him so much so that we ARE HIM at the completion of our firing.

Every man's work shall be, {not maybe will be} but shall be tried BY THE FIRE.  Every man includes Jesus the Christ of God who we are also going to be in spiritual maturity.   1 Cor. 3:

1Pe_1:17  And if ye call on the Father, who **without respect of persons** judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Please see the man that defiles the temple of God we are to be as being the spiritual characteristics and mindset of what we call the "OLD MAN", the first man Adam, that is natural and worldly and OF THE EARTH.  The serpent in that man is the lusts of the flesh, which are the law of sin in our own members\body.

It is the old man's works that are out of the parameters for the body of Christ Jesus in the world that will be destroyed, not man and not the law.  The law of sin in our members has a purpose for the life of the flesh in eating and reproducing and so on but are to be contained within the parameters of Jesus Christ when and how we fulfill them, if we do. 

1Co 3:10  According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12  Now if **any man** build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try **every man's work** of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17  If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1Co 3:18  Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.


God bless  Donken