Can both be true?

[shawn]

1) We can not live by what we feel.  We can only live by what is revealed through the Bible.

2) We live, grow and move within relationship with Christ.  God will reveal Himself, his nature and his desires for us directly.
Feelings are a part of that process, a God given aspect to being human.  It is not to be ignored but embraced.

Can both be true?

Discuss.

:winkgrin:

[Molly]

The way is narrow.


Do not turn to the right nor to the left; Turn your foot from evil.  Prov 4:27

[shawn]

The way is narrow.


Do not turn to the right nor to the left; Turn your foot from evil.  Prov 4:27

You'll have to explain to me how that relates to the question at hand.

[Molly]

I guess I'm saying feelings are good within limits. 

Scripture provides the limits.

See:  David and Bathsheba.

Our feelings can lie to us.

Feelings are a part of that process,

So--yes and no.  :icon_king:

[Beloved Servant]

14 Now the soulish man is not receiving those things which are of the spirit of God,
                                                                                                                     for they are stupidity to him,
                                                                                                                     and he is not able to know them,
                                                                                                                     seeing that they are spiritually examined.



15 Now he who is spiritual is, indeed, examining all, yet he is being examined by no one.
16 For who knew the mind of the Lord? Who will be deducing from Him? Yet we have the mind of Christ.

[shawn]

14 Now the soulish man is not receiving those things which are of the spirit of God,
                                                                                                                     for they are stupidity to him,
                                                                                                                     and he is not able to know them,
                                                                                                                     seeing that they are spiritually examined.



15 Now he who is spiritual is, indeed, examining all, yet he is being examined by no one.
16 For who knew the mind of the Lord? Who will be deducing from Him? Yet we have the mind of Christ.

Amen!

Whoo that was a good word for me today.

Keep em coming guys/gals.  :)

[shawn]

I guess I'm saying feelings are good within limits. 

Scripture provides the limits.

See:  David and Bathsheba.

Our feelings can lie to us.

Feelings are a part of that process,

So--yes and no.  :icon_king:

I hear ya, and partially agree.  I don't really want to put my opinion on the subject out there yet.  I want the discussion to play out a bit.  But, lets just say we tend to see things in
very black and white fashions.  It falls into another line of questioning, is the Bible supposed to be understood the same by me, as it is to you?  How is the Bible meant to be examined?
How does the Bible shape us?  Does it shape us?  Does it reveal the nature of God to us?  How is that done?

[Beloved Servant]

"I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him."

[WhiteWings]

Jesus wept.

[shawn]

How much faith do I place in my 8 y/o daughters ability to discern?  I give her rules, boundries and some of them are very rigid.  I do so because I love her and she does not have the ability to discern what is good for her and what isn't good for her.

In the same way, doctrines, beliefs and man's interpretations and teachings give a young immature Christian a place to start.  They do not yet know the difference between their own voice and the voice of God.  If they want it, they can and often do convince themselves that God wants that for them.  They need firm rules, boundries and even man's interpretations are used to bring them a certain level of maturity.  Or better yet. it tills their soil, and makes them ache for the deeper things of God.  The actual aching is a vehicle that brings about maturity.

Then there comes the time when you just know.  You begin to believe what is placed in your heart.  You know the difference in your carnal mind and the Spirit of God speaking to you.  You trust, you feel, you navigate with a knowing and ultimately it shapes the way you read the Bible.  The revelation through relationship changes you from the inside out.  You grow weary over wars over words.  You grow weary of having to "prove your stances" and you just ARE...you just ABIDE...you just GROW.

So, IMO the answer to the question is YES, both can be true and it depends on where you are in your walk.  So, often we are trying to debate the differences in words when often both are true, or both not true for everyone.  I am convinced today that this is a very personal thing...yet we want to cookie cutter our experience onto others.

[micah7:9]

1) We can not live by what we feel.  We can only live by what is revealed through the Bible.

2) We live, grow and move within relationship with Christ.  God will reveal Himself, his nature and his desires for us directly.
Feelings are a part of that process, a God given aspect to being human.  It is not to be ignored but embraced.

Can both be true?

Discuss.

:winkgrin:

1) It is my opinion that the sentient of man is his driving force, and this man can live by what the Bible reveals, its called moral living, with good virtues. A good citizen, who will do unto others as you would have others to do to you. A good human being who holds the Bible as a very good book of good standards to live by; much like how the founding fathers built America.

2) This requires a renewing a rebirth from above and then one cannot go by the sentient of man. Feelings in The Way other than loving your fellow man, sacrifice, being human as no place at all, that is what we die daily to..the human being...in this walk you are a NEW creature 2Co 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Gal 6:15  For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Again it is but my opinion. You cant have them both, you cant have your cake and eat it to.

[shawn]

1) We can not live by what we feel.  We can only live by what is revealed through the Bible.

2) We live, grow and move within relationship with Christ.  God will reveal Himself, his nature and his desires for us directly.
Feelings are a part of that process, a God given aspect to being human.  It is not to be ignored but embraced.

Can both be true?

Discuss.

:winkgrin:

1) It is my opinion that the sentient of man is his driving force, and this man can live by what the Bible reveals, its called moral living, with good virtues. A good citizen, who will do unto others as you would have others to do to you. A good human being who holds the Bible as a very good book of good standards to live by; much like how the founding fathers built America.

2) This requires a renewing a rebirth from above and then one cannot go by the sentient of man. Feelings in The Way other than loving your fellow man, sacrifice, being human as no place at all, that is what we die daily to..the human being...in this walk you are a NEW creature 2Co 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Gal 6:15  For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Again it is but my opinion. You cant have them both, you cant have your cake and eat it to.

I would agree with much of this, and I agree you can't have both.  It's one or the other, but I believe 1 can lead to 2.  The emptiness of accepting what men say about the Bible tilled my soil.  It prepared me with a longing.

[Nathan]

Hmmm . . .what say you we back up just a second and ponder this . . . "what" are feelings?  What's their source?  Are they spiritual?  Or are they natural?

For me, feelings are a manifestation of an experience.  Without the experience, the feelings don't manifest.  If someone I don't know dies, I'm not moved by their death.  But . . .if I personally knew them, I immediately feel the loss.  Trying to talk to someone about the depths of God when they haven't ever experienced his redemption in their life, it's not that they don't have feelings, but they have no connection to the feelings you're trying to express.  Feelings, for me, are directly connected to the physical.  And as such, I have reservations when it comes to "relying" on my feelings when it pertains to relationships.  Feelings can be hurt . . .because they're directly connected to expectations.  Which . . .is coming from my mental state more than my spiritual state.

When I share what I "feel" it's from a past experience on a matter.  My feelings toward eternal torment have changed because my understanding of the nature of God's love has changed.  Feelings for me "follow" rather than lead.  I guess I'd say it's not so much I live by what I feel, but I feel because I live.

ooooooooh . . . . I like that!

Being around someone who doesn't feel is like being around the walking dead.  They may be breathing, but there's no life in them.  They can touch, but they can't "feel".  But I would still say I wouldn't "base" my living on my feelings.  But you truly can severe your feelings from a relationship you're no longer wanting to live.

[shawn]

Hmmm . . .what say you we back up just a second and ponder this . . . "what" are feelings?  What's their source?  Are they spiritual?  Or are they natural?

For me, feelings are a manifestation of an experience.  Without the experience, the feelings don't manifest.  If someone I don't know dies, I'm not moved by their death.  But . . .if I personally knew them, I immediately feel the loss.  Trying to talk to someone about the depths of God when they haven't ever experienced his redemption in their life, it's not that they don't have feelings, but they have no connection to the feelings you're trying to express.  Feelings, for me, are directly connected to the physical.  And as such, I have reservations when it comes to "relying" on my feelings when it pertains to relationships.  Feelings can be hurt . . .because they're directly connected to expectations.  Which . . .is coming from my mental state more than my spiritual state.

When I share what I "feel" it's from a past experience on a matter.  My feelings toward eternal torment have changed because my understanding of the nature of God's love has changed.  Feelings for me "follow" rather than lead.  I guess I'd say it's not so much I live by what I feel, but I feel because I live.

ooooooooh . . . . I like that!

Being around someone who doesn't feel is like being around the walking dead.  They may be breathing, but there's no life in them.  They can touch, but they can't "feel".  But I would still say I wouldn't "base" my living on my feelings.  But you truly can severe your feelings from a relationship you're no longer wanting to live.

What I really like about this is the fact that you place feelings in their proper place without disowning them.  Feelings certainly shouldn't lead, they do indeed follow.  With that said, experience, knowledge and feeling are so intimately intertwined that in the spirit I often experience them as one.  I can be in the middle of my drive to work in worship.  Often times in worship God reveals or reminds me about a part of His nature.  In that revelation, I experience a tangible portion of His beauty, and I feel His love.  How do you seperate?  I can't nor do I feel the need to do so.

I can feel offended at an off handed comment by a co-worker but I know that is of the natural.  I can feel sad because my dog died, and also know that is of the natural.  But, the feelings that come through experience and revelation I have come to embrace. 

The reason I bring this up is because of the tendency to demonize feelings as a "liar" or "something you can't trust".  Feelings shouldn't be the source of enlightenment, but they often follow being enlightened.  It's part of the experience.

[micah7:9]

"Trying to talk to someone about the depths of God when they haven't ever experienced his redemption in their life, it's not that they don't have feelings, but they have no connection to the feelings you're trying to express."  Nathan

I don't reason that way. In my opinion, man's "feelings" have no say in the manner.    "Trying to talk to someone..... they haven't ever experienced his redemption in their life....."

First, should you be trying to talk to someone, let us hope that it is the Lord who moved you, not feelings, should it be feelings from you and you expect feelings from that person to do the work, in my opinion nothing will get done.

Second, " they haven't ever experienced...." I believe they are in perfect position to "hear," should it be the Lord is moving you to witness to this person, I also reason by the same token, that person is in the perfect position to hear the words the Lord will have you to say, not feelings.  This is the "connection"...   The Lord' Time.  The work is the Lord's  and not feelings, again this is just an opinion.

Psa. 18:22 Indeed You Yourself shall light up my lamp, O Yahweh; My Elohim, He shall brighten my darkness,

Pro 20:27 A lamp of Yahweh is the life breath of mankind, Searching[/u all the chambers of the inner being."

That "lamp or candle" are the "feelings" that the Lord works with......

[Lonely Summer]

Yeah, I was brought up to believe that "feelings' were "wrong" "evil" "ungodly". I don't believe that anymore. The truth is more nuanced than that. As it is in most things.

[WhiteWings]

Yeah, I was brought up to believe that "feelings' were "wrong" "evil" "ungodly". I don't believe that anymore. The truth is more nuanced than that. As it is in most things.

I agree. My impression of Jesus is that He was someone with alot of feelings at compassion. He was not a teaching robot.
That was one of the differences between Jesus and the Pharisees.
Jesus put compassion/feeling in the laws while the Pharisees were judging robots.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: It was astounding to me to realize and experience that the Lord has feelings that are independent of the circumstances. I have wept in the Spirit in deep intercession, but it was NOT ME weeping; I felt no independent emotions moving me. Our emotions are meant to be inhabited by His Spirit, cleansed by His fire, and then used by Him. But all of our lives we have been moved by every wind of doctrine (a belief regarding ANYTHING) instead of letting Him be the wind in our sails that moves us. My  :2c:

[lomarah]

:cloud9: It was astounding to me to realize and experience that the Lord has feelings that are independent of the circumstances. I have wept in the Spirit in deep intercession, but it was NOT ME weeping; I felt no independent emotions moving me. Our emotions are meant to be inhabited by His Spirit, cleansed by His fire, and then used by Him. But all of our lives we have been moved by every wind of doctrine (a belief regarding ANYTHING) instead of letting Him be the wind in our sails that moves us. My  :2c:

Can you explain this further? I don't quite get what you mean.

PS So glad to hear from you and hope you're doing ok!  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Not sure what part you want me to explain. The Spirit can have you weep; it's called travail. It means He's birthing something into the Kingdom, ie. a move of His Spirit is happening. Sometimes it's instantaneous; a frightened boy who ran away from an abusive home, chased by the police, received the baptism in tongues and spoke like that for an hour. Strengthened, he turned himself in and stopped crying.

It's not "you" when that happens; you may not even know what is being done, and therefore have no "personal" interest in what is being accomplished, and don't feel "sad", yet you're sobbing.

We think our emotions are only for us, but He desires to cleanse them with fire and use them for His Kingdom. The emotions are as the waves of the sea, being moved every which way by the wind, and the wind is Satan. Blessings....