So everyones favorite from Fox News which of course is Bill O'Reilly recently said that when it comes to innocent people being killed in drone strikes if they were close enough to someone that were terrorists then it is okay. I guess I must of missed that part in the teaching and lifestyle of Yeshua alongside all that stuff about loving your enemies and your neighbor as yourself and he who lives by the sword dies by the sword.
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This type of stuff is very difficult. Would you have bombed Hitler's house? The answer often is yes.
But it gets harder if Hitler has a 1000 children in his house as human shield; even if we know it would have saved the lives of a million other kids.
Can/may we sacrifice the life a few to protect the life of many.
QuoteI guess I must of missed that part in the teaching and lifestyle of Yeshua alongside all that stuff about loving your enemies and your neighbor as yourself and he who lives by the sword dies by the sword.
Very true. But it's also commanded to protect the innocent. Very difficult.
I'll just say I'm glad I'm an insignificant person that hasn't to make decisions that are always wrong no matter what.
It is like people who support the death penalty we know there are innocent people on death row as no human system is perfect and you will usually hear the pro death penalty crowd as lot as they kill the scum it is wroth letting innocent people be executed. Of course the biggest paradox to people who believe that murders or rapists weather their are organized terrorists or even independent deserved to be killed is that if any innocent people are killed because of your actions weather its the death penalty or drone strikes that makes a murderer and you deserved to be killed by your own logic.
Our hands can be clean of the blood of our enemies by adopting Paul's position.
1 Cor 5:12-13
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked person from among you."
The church is a new nation that this world does not perceive. I pledge allegiance to that nation and I don't live by the sword of any other nation.
I AGREE WW , A VERY DIFFICULT THING TO DO, BEING THE ONE WHO HAS TO MAKE THOSE DECICIONS BUT WE HAVE NOT BEEN CALLED TO DO THAT, THANK GOD.
OUR CALLING , AS I SEE IT, IS TO FOLLOW THE ONE WHO PREACHED THE SERMON(S) ON THE MOUNT AND TO LOVE THOSE WHO HATE US , TO GIVE FOOD AND DRINK TO THE ONES WHO DESPISE US AND I SUBMIT, THAT WE, OF OURSELVES, CAN'T DO THAT, UNTIL JESUS "OVERCOMES "US WITH HIMSELF SO THAT WE CAN "OVERCOME" THE TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS THAT LIE AHEAD AND THAT'S A PROCESS IN ITSELF.
BILL O'REILLY IS A ROMAN CATHOLIC OF THE OLD SCHOOL VARIETY AND BEING ON FOX NEWS RELSIHES ARGUMENT AND CONFRONTATION.
HE HAS TRIED TO HUMILIATE OBAMA MORE THAN ONCE IN INTERWIEWS IF YOU HAVE EVER LISTENED TO THEM AND I APPLAUD THE PRESIDENT FOR NOT GIVING IN TO HIS BULLYING BUT STOOD HIS GROUND COOLY RESPONDING TO O'REILLY'S REMARKS WHEN HE COULD BECAUSE "BILLY' WOULD NEVER LET HIM SAY MUCH OF ANYTHING ALWAYS INTERRUPTING HIM AND NEVER LETTING HIM FINISH HIS SENTENCES MOST OF THE TIME.
HE WAS RUDE, DISRESPECTFUL,BELLIGERENT AND PROUD OF WHAT HE WAS DOING IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA.
I LIVE IN TEXAS, THE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT( CP ) CAPITAL OF THE USA, AND HAVE HEARD IT SAID IN EDITORIALS THAT THE KILLING OF INNOCENTS IS OK AND NECESSARY IN THE LARGER SCHEME OF THINGS TO KEEP CRIME DOWN.
STATISTICS HAVE PROVEN THAT CP DOES NOT ALWAYS DO THAT IN EVERY STATE AND THAT THOSE WITHOUT CP LAWS HAVE COMPARABLE IF NOT LOWER CRIME RATES THAN THOSE WHO ALLOW CP.
Quote from: JulieTang84 on November 21, 2013, 07:46:25 PM
The church is not a new nation, as it has changed little in the times since Christ (being the cause of or being involved in many many major wars). There can only be one Church and it has no name, for its followers worship Father in Spirit. This is something I have personally struggled with until Father showed me the way. There is always right and wrong on both sides. One side will always play a little dirtier than others. People will always die, it is just a fact of life.
It does have a name: "Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16)
Quote from: JulieTang84However, it is not for us to take spiritual sides; and just because I vehemently appose someone, even to the point of death, does not mean that I cannot love them and ask Father for the forgiveness of us both. I am prepared to die standing up for those I care about. Would I kill to save others? I would. Would I kill to save myself, probably not but who really knowns.
God has taken that heavy burden of killing our enemies off our shoulders when he took Israel out from under the Law and placed it in Christ. We no longer NEED to kill and ask for forgiveness later.
Let GOD judge the nations, so you don't have to. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: T-Bone on November 21, 2013, 07:57:41 PM
OUR CALLING , AS I SEE IT, IS TO FOLLOW THE ONE WHO PREACHED THE SERMON(S) ON THE MOUNT AND TO LOVE THOSE WHO HATE US , TO GIVE FOOD AND DRINK TO THE ONES WHO DESPISE US AND I SUBMIT, THAT WE, OF OURSELVES, CAN'T DO THAT, UNTIL JESUS "OVERCOMES "US WITH HIMSELF SO THAT WE CAN "OVERCOME" THE TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS THAT LIE AHEAD AND THAT'S A PROCESS IN ITSELF.
:thumbsup:
I see it exactly the same way. The Sons of God are to be a light to the world, not to have fellowship with darkness... :cloud9:
These questions are why we have scripture:
1 Cor 5:12-13
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked person from among you."
Romans 13
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities,for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
There are no INNOCENTS. NONE are good but God. Let GOD judge the world. He has a different purpose for the sons of God, to bring LIGHT unto the world, not to participate in it's judgment. We are commanded NOT to touch the unclean thing.
The purpose of the Israel of God is to rebuke the ways of the world by NOT participating in them, so that they will see the way of righteousness and be rebuked by it, repent and receive salvation from sin.
Quote from: JulieTang84 on November 21, 2013, 09:26:09 PM
Sorry Bro, but this is everything that I have heard a 1000 times before. I fully understand and accept them.
But you sidestepped my scenario and for simplicity I will shorten it here.
The problem is in the premise of the question. I wouldn't BE an armed guard. That is my point. I do not live by the sword and I apply that to the things I do in the world.
Quote from: JulieTang84 on November 21, 2013, 09:53:50 PM
I just knew you were going to come back with that. Seth, may I please say that you are seeing Fathers children as physical beings, not children of Love. I am so sorry that you cannot see outside the box.
I think challenging people's spiritual sight is against forum practices, am I wrong about that? It seems that when you get frustrated with another person's opinion, you tend to resort to accusations of blindness. Not nice. :mnah:
QuoteIt is also foolish to say you do not live by the sword, yet you live reaping the benefits of it. Yet another shallow argument touting being separate from the world in a physical sense with no regard to the spiritual sense.
Romans 2:12
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
It's not foolish to NOT be conformed to this world, and to OBEY the scriptures which say do NOT judge the outside world and to leave that judgment to GOD. But then...I guess that kind of obedience is thinking inside the box, right?
QuoteBeing NOT OF THIS WORLD, is NOTHING PHYSICAL but all SPIRITUAL. So how is doing nothing PHYSICALLY helping anyone SPIRITUALLY? This is a huge question. Because would not a security guard equipped with the following
Again, I would not place myself in a career requiring me to kill. Whatever benefits I receive in this life are FROM GOD, not man. GOD uses the sword carriers as judgments against this world. That is why they exist. I credit NOTHING to man, but I know that man is the clay in the hand of the potter. My freedom comes from GOD not man, and if that freedom were taken away, I would STILL have freedom in Christ.
QuoteProbably came down on you a little hard, but please know it was because I care for you. :friendstu:
Your rebukes come not from the mind of God but from your own mind and your own reasoning. You tend to just assume you are right without question. Yet, you are never able to establish your truths with scripture, and never acknowledge scriptures when you see them. You are content to simply skim and skip, but not address.
Julie,
None of those scriptures disagree with what I said:
Jhn 17:15
My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that YOU protect them from the evil one.
See how Jesus did NOT say, my prayer is that you send them into the world
to kill the enemy? NO!He said, my prayer is that YOU (GOD) protect them from the evil one. He is giving that authority to GOD, not the disciples. Let's see how that lines up with what Paul said.
1 Cor 5:12-13
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked person from among you."
You quoted this:
Mat 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Which sword sets a man at variance against his father and daughter against her mother You think Jesus wanted them to KILL their parents with physical swords, and daughters to kill their mothers with physical swords? The SWORD AND THE CLOAK are the same as the ARMOR OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. It has nothing to do will killing your enemies and living by the iron sword. THE SWORD IS THE WORD OF GOD
Scripture resolves with itself. It does not contradict itself.
2 Cor 10:3-4
For
though we walk in the flesh,
we do not war after the flesh: For the weapons of our warfare are...
NOT...carnal, but mighty
through God to the pulling down of strong holds;
Our weapons are not carnal but are THROUGH GOD.
Spiritual Sword = Word of GodQuote from: JulieTangI HOPE you can see that my REASONING is not from my mind but from SCRIPTURE. It would seem that perhaps you are most interested in how I can quote Scripture than how Scripture and Spirit has shaped my very being. I truly apologize for anything that I have said for you to take it so personal
Maybe in the future you could refrain from making assumptions about my ability to see things regarding boxes or outside of boxes or suggesting I am blind etc. That would go a long way.
QuotePaul certainly gave witness to the coming perils
And here is how he handled it:
Romans 12
17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. 18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.The only time we are not at peace is when the church is persecuted for preaching truth. But when they do, DO NOT overcome evil with evil, but overcome evil with GOOD.
THAT is the reason Jesus wasn't aghast at the centurion's job. Not because he wants his church to engage in that same practice. It was because he knows that GOD placed those centurions there to KILL!
And who did they kill but JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF?!And did Jesus call for Peter to kill the centurion to protect the innocent? Why NOOOO. He told Peter NOT to live by that sword. He wanted Peter to be like Jesus not the centurion. :doh:
QuoteJesus commanded us to LOVE
Including our enemies. I agree.
Quote
So how does all of this pertain to protecting those who cannot protect themselves? Everything.
GOD WILL BE THE JUDGE, not me. I am not called to judge the world, but to focus on what is WITHIN, and let God judge those who are without...
Romans 13
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities,for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.Just as Nebuchadnezzer was a servant in the hands of God for judging Israel, GOD has instituted methods by which to judge the world according to its own evil. He tells Christ's people NOT to participate in that evil however. God turns EVIL upon EVIL to judge them ALL. But his people are removed to serve Christ and be a LIGHT unto the world.
Darkness and Light have no fellowship together.
Quote from: Seth on November 21, 2013, 08:36:14 PM
Quote from: T-Bone on November 21, 2013, 07:57:41 PM
OUR CALLING , AS I SEE IT, IS TO FOLLOW THE ONE WHO PREACHED THE SERMON(S) ON THE MOUNT AND TO LOVE THOSE WHO HATE US , TO GIVE FOOD AND DRINK TO THE ONES WHO DESPISE US AND I SUBMIT, THAT WE, OF OURSELVES, CAN'T DO THAT, UNTIL JESUS "OVERCOMES "US WITH HIMSELF SO THAT WE CAN "OVERCOME" THE TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS THAT LIE AHEAD AND THAT'S A PROCESS IN ITSELF.
:thumbsup:
I see it exactly the same way. The Sons of God are to be a light to the world, not to have fellowship with darkness... :cloud9:
beautiful !!
It takes the Light of Christ [HIM /SPIRIT DWELLING WITHIN US ] to remove the darkness from us first , as we all know its True !
To even be able to fellowship with one another and share what God has done for us
reminded again of Saul / Pauls road to Damascus experience
the Light of Jesus Christ shined so bright it blinded Saul /Paul and Jesus says the blind have no sin , Paul was than given sight with recieving the Holy Spirit ! Acts 9 is full of wonderful insights
and a Prophecy fulfilled the description of Levi-athan the great sea [masses of people ] monster
Job 41:15
His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me,
that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Act 9:18 And immediately
there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and
was baptized.
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book,[hear what the Holy Spirit is saying ]
and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness. [Saul was blind 3 days that is significant /a sign to those whom know Jesus testimony /witness !!]
Jhn 9:39 And Jesus said,
For judgment I am come into this world,
that they which see not might see;
and that they which see might be made blind. wow can you see Saul / Paul experience in this sentence ?
And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Jesus said unto them,
If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remains. seeing with your own minds eye the sin remains ! , its when Jesus shines on you and the Holy Spirit is given you to see Jesus we have not that sin as Sauls /Pauls life changed a one eighty about face !!
Gods Word is amazing and those treasures of Truth remain in our hearts , so Glory to God for His LIGHT and knowledge of Him , In Jesus Christ , in our little earthly bodies as of now , something wonderful of God is happening , Praise God His works are wonderous !! :dsunny:
Rose Amen!
It was when I saw how BLIND I had been could I start to see God's real plan. I had to be humbled first, broken into shivers. I had to admit that I needed his healing upon my eyes. Nobody will see EXCEPT THEY FIRST BE BLIND :thumbsup:
"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."
It's a two part blindness as with Saul of Tarsus.
First we are blind to the ways of the Lord. Then the Lord blinds us to the ways of the world so that we may see the way of the Lord.
Those who insist they always had sight will remain blind and stumble in the dark.
Quote from: Seth on November 22, 2013, 07:21:22 PM
It's a two part blindness as with Saul of Tarsus.
First we are blind to the ways of the Lord. Then the Lord blinds us to the ways of the world so that we may see the way of the Lord.
Those who insist they always had sight will remain blind and stumble in the dark.
awesome :thumbsup:
JULIE TANG 84:
HAVE YOU BEEN TALKING TO SETH OFFLINE?
I CAN'T FIND YOUR COMMENTS ANYWHERE IN THIS THREAD.
WHAT'S UP?
SETH :
YOUR DISCUSSION IS GREAT , SCRIPTURAL AND EYE OPENING AND THANKS FOR THAT, AS ALWAYS.
I KNOW WE ARE NOT TO HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH DARKNESS BUT WAS THAT NOT WHAT JESUS WAS DOING WHEN HE WAS ACCUSED OF SPENDING TOO MUCH TIME WITH "PUBLICANS AND SINNERS" MANY OF WHICH LIVED ON THE FRINGES?
I HAVE A TRACT MINISTRY GOING ON PERSONNALY AND TRY TO DISCERN WHO TO GIVE THEM TO WITHOUT BEING TOO PICKY BUT GENERALLY LOOK FOR "YES" FACES OR FOLKS WHO LOOK DOWN AND OUT AND NOT NECESSARILY, THE ANGRY OR MEAN-SPIRITED ONES ALTHOUGH I HAVE GIVEN TRACTS TO THEM , TOO.
I ALWAYS ASK THE LORD TO "SHINE THROUGH" WHEN I'M DOING THIS OR JUST OUT AND ABOUT GENERALLY.
I REALLY WANT FOLKS TO KNOW THE "TRUTH" ABOUT OUR AWESOME GOD AND HIS SON , OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.
I SUBMIT ALSO THAT WHEN WE HELP THE "LEAST OF THESE" WE ARE HELPING THOSE TRAPPED IN DARKNESS, SO IT SEEMS THAT WE SOMEHOW NEED TO OR EVEN HAVE TO ENTER INTO OR NEAR IT TO REACH THESE VERY "LEAST OF THESE".
I THINK WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND WHAT PAUL IS SAYING IS TO NOT PARTICIPATE IN DARKNESS, LIKE GOING TO A BAR TO DRINK AND CAROUSE OR CHASE SKIRTS.
I GET THAT PART AND RIGHTFULLY SO .
AS FOR THE KILLING PART OF GOVERNMENT, I DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT WHEN I WAS DRAFTED INTO THE MILITARY BUT I WASN'T GOING TO DEFECT TO CANADA OR MEXICO TO AVOID THE DRAFT.
WHAT I DID DO WAS ASK GOD TO SPARE ME OF THAT AND HE DID .
HE KNEW THAT I DIDN'T HAVE THE HEART TO KILL BUT I DID DO WHAT I WAS TOLD WHILE IN THE AIR FORCE.
HE KEPT ME SAFE AND MANY GOOD THINGS CAME OUT OF MY 4 YEARS AND 3 MONTHS IN THE USAF.
THE MAIN ONE WAS MEETING MY LOVELY WIFE OF 43 YEARS OUT OF WHICH HAS COME TWO SIBLINGS AND 5 GRANDKIDS AND A BOND THAT CANNOT BE BROKEN FOR SHE AND I ARE ONE.
KNOWING HER PARENTS WAS ALSO A WONDERFUL THING, AS WELL.
I LOVED THEM DEARLY.
Quote from: T-BoneI THINK WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND WHAT PAUL IS SAYING IS TO NOT PARTICIPATE IN DARKNESS, LIKE GOING TO A BAR TO DRINK AND CAROUSE OR CHASE SKIRTS. I GET THAT PART AND RIGHTFULLY SO .
Yes exactly. I don't mean to separate off from the world so as to be physically separate. It just means not to fit their pattern. Jesus spent time with those people because they were prepared to receive the truth. I could get into a long discussion about that, but simply to say, he spent time with people who had been broken down by the ways of the world in which they were participating. They were like Prodigal Sons who who were hungry and Jesus was feeding them. The Pharisees on the other hand were not yet broken down. They had the same sin, but they were too proud and so the soil was not yet prepared for them to receive the seed.
As to your service, please know that my intent is not to condemn you or anyone else. Simply to explain what I see in the scripture, and what also guides my belief. What the world calls "pacifism" they see as weakness, and gets me into trouble when I talk about it. But I know that the world sees things in opposition to how God sees them.
Quote from: Seth on November 22, 2013, 09:21:51 PM
It just means not to fit their pattern. Jesus spent time with those people because they were prepared to receive the truth. I could get into a long discussion about that, but simply to say, he spent time with people who had been broken down by the ways of the world in which they were participating. They were like Prodigal Sons who who were hungry and Jesus was feeding them.
Yes - I don't believe Jesus hung out with people to just support, reinforce and accept what they were doing that may be sinful/darkness. I believe He spent time with people to, in true love, teach truth, change and heal them. He brings us to Him as we are, but HIS Presence changes us. I believe that's why we should lovingly, gently, present people to the true person of Jesus Christ - the SAVIOR.
After much deliberation and silent prayer with Father, I deleted all of my posts in this thread.
I believe there were hurt ego's and perhaps mine as well and no good was to come continuing bickering back and force.
For the record, no one here can present a Scripture or for that matter an interpretation that I have no heard, meditated on and given great consideration too. It was said that I ignore Scripture, which in essence is an utter fallacy. I cannot in any manner ignore the teachings of the Spirit and the personal counsel of Father, that has taken a lost and lonely child who was too afraid to believe what she always knew.
Now it was said by Seth: that "Those who insist that they always had sight will remain blind and stumble in the dark"
I can only assume, Seth you were referring to me. I did not say that I always had sight, just that I was too afraid, to broken to believe the truth that was with me ever since I can remember. It was this truth that kept me an outsider for most my life. Sure, I stumbled but I studied. I studied hard. My mom was Lutheran, my dad Presberterian, one of them had to be wrong. Wh not both.
It's so easy to say things and have them taken out of context. I clearly pushed buttons that Seth did not want pushed. I reached out several times, but my apology was never accepted. My ego needed it, I don't. Father knows me complete, and that should be enough.
Now as for being blind. I have much to say on this.
Many blind people "see" things that those with sight do not. How could this be? Simple really, because they are more attuned to their other senses. But of course, we are not talking of blinded eyes are we, just cold blind hearts. Such as these are innocent babies, they do not know what sin is, just as Eve did not.
Father has told us that has hardened the hearts of many. They cannot find him, nor can see his works. These people are not evil, they are just like us, except Father has opened our eyes and our hearts.
Now what?
Well, now we see the world through new eyes and we love the world (Fathers Creation) with a new heart. There is nothing happening in this world that has not happened before. As the Scriptures tell us, there is nothing "new" under the sun. As before, as is to come.
So what do we do with these new insights? We love? We live in love. We see everything in and through Love. We know Father is with us always and the peace and comfort he brings is like nothing that one could ever hope to find apart from him. No longer are people judged by the clothes they wear, the car they drive or the house they live in. Rather, everyone is seen through love and loved because of love. There is a spiritual connection with everyone. Sounds strange but Scripture supports this. There is ONE body but many Parts. Granted most are not yet active in this body, but there is a place for everyone.
This is known and understood and is simply the greatest gift Father could have possibly given me.
Living apart from the world is not walking away from someone that looks "different." Not from being involved. This is perhaps the biggest fallacy of them all. Some think Jesus was our example. That he did not carry a sword, but this is just a one sided view. Jesus cared for the sick, the lame and downtrodden. No one was too far beneath him for him to stop what he was doing, bend down and heal them. This was who he was. He did not turn away anyone who turned to him.
Guess what? This is how those who have a new body in Christ MUST live.
It is living and loving life. Giving thanks to Father for EVERYTHING and seeing every opportunity to pay forward every last ray of Love that Father has bestowed. The supply is never ending, the more we can give, the more we have to give. It is wonderful to shine :dsunny:
But with a new Spirit filled body comes responsibility. Well, heck it's a pleasure, it's something you cannot not do. It's looking out for those who cannot look out for themselves.
Oh I was told the following: There are no INNOCENTS. NONE are good but God
But Jesus told us this:
Mat 25:45
"He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
This means any lowlife that might be seen through carnal eyes. What it means through SPIRITUAL eyes is any little light that is barely flickering, treat it with respect. Show it Love :HeartThrob: GIVE IT LOVE so that it can break free of the darkness that seeks to smother it.
Mat 5:43
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighborfn and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Mat 5:45
that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Mat 5:46
If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
Mat 5:47
And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
Mat 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect
But there are times when one has to make a decision and many just turn a blind eye and walk away.
They chose to be "apart" from the world in a physical sense, totally ignoring the spiritual. But let's for a moment consider the following:
Jhn 15:13
Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.
Theologians J. P. Moreland and Norman Geisler say that:
"to permit murder when one could have prevented it is morally wrong. To allow a rape when one could have hindered it is an evil. To watch an act of cruelty to children without trying to intervene is morally inexcusable. In brief, not resisting evil is an evil of omission, and an evil of omission can be just as evil as an evil of commission. Any man who refuses to protect his wife and children against a violent intruder fails them morally."
How is doing NOTHING helping anyone? How is it helping Jesus?
Remember what he said: "He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
Now consider something even deeper. The one that wants to inflict severe bodily harm on someone who cannot defend themselves. Are they not also a future member of the body of Christ? Of course they are. Are they also not blind to the Love of Father? I should say so.
So, given that this person is BLIND and that I am not......how could I be possibly HELPING this person, this tiny spirit that is barely lit, by turning my back and walking away? I almost cry at the thought. How could I, with Fathers Love flowing through my very being, allow this person to commit a horrendous act, they might see the death and suffering of one or more people?
You see this is where the wheels fall off the notion that living apart PHYSICALLY is what Jesus meant. It is a fallacy, short and simple. Does anyone truly believe that the "goodness" inside of the most vial person wants to be part of any terrible acts. Is it not held captive by forces of darkness? Is it not this spiritual part that Jesus was referring to when he said, "what you do not do for the likes of these, you do not for me also"
So if myself or any other person stops someone from shooting up a classroom, a crowded train or subway, even to the point of taking the life of the assailant, are they not helping on several fronts?
One, they are saving the lives of many who may have loved ones, dependents. Also, are they also not stopping a person from committing an act that small light of goodness inside them is just Screaming "LET ME OUT OF HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I am here to say, that Jesus asked Father to keep us safe from the evil one, and that means paying it forward. 24/7.
The sword is not evil, just the intent in which it is used. As a related study, but for a later time.
The true meaning behind: THOU SHALL NOT ""KILL"" , should say MURDER!!!
Killing someone to save them from killing loved ones or others is not wrong. However, someone planning to Murder someone to gain something that does not belong to them, most certainly is.
Father judges motives of the heart, not the action of the hand.
I share my deepest convictions with you here with all the Love and Spiritual Truth I have. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
Quote from: JulieTangI believe there were hurt ego's and perhaps mine as well and no good was to come continuing bickering back and force.
It's so easy to say things and have them taken out of context. I clearly pushed buttons that Seth did not want pushed. I reached out several times, but my apology was never accepted.
My ego was not hurt whatsoever Julie. And I do not recall any time that I did not accept an apology that you gave. I never thought that you even needed to apologize in the first place. It's just a disagreement.
Julie, think about it, if you have never met me in person, and you were not there when I wrote my posts, how can you assume that my ego was hurt? Can you see how that might come off as arrogant? If you say your own ego was hurt, please speak for yourself :HeartThrob:
Quote from: JulieTangNow it was said by Seth: that "Those who insist that they always had sight will remain blind and stumble in the dark"
I can only assume, Seth you were referring to me.
Julie, if you look at my posts, you will see that I was including everyone, especially myself. My posts actually describe my own journey. If you see yourself in those words, as you apparently do, that is all good as well. Paul says, we have ALL had our past conversation with sins, and blindness is the state GOD has used for his own good.
Quote from: JulieTangOh I was told the following: There are no INNOCENTS. NONE are good but God
But Jesus told us this:
Mat 25:45
"He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
This means any lowlife that might be seen through carnal eyes. What it means through SPIRITUAL eyes is any little light that is barely flickering, treat it with respect. Show it Love GIVE IT LOVE so that it can break free of the darkness that seeks to smother it.
Much of what you are saying, I agree with, but I don't see it in opposition to what I said. Loving people has to do with telling the truth. It's not simply an emotion, but it has to do with truth and giving it to people who may not want it right away. But they will REMEMBER it someday, and that is why we tell it now.
Quote from: JulieTangBut there are times when one has to make a decision and many just turn a blind eye and walk away.
They chose to be "apart" from the world in a physical sense, totally ignoring the spiritual.
Who said anything about turning a blind eye and walking away? The sword carriers of the world exist FOR the purpose God has intended. I am simply not one of those sword carriers because I am told not to live by the sword. Being
not an armed guard and I saw something happening as you described, I might call the police, or even
Lord willing be sacrificed in the place of those children. How is that turning a blind eye?
QuoteThe sword is not evil, just the intent in which it is used.
The sword is for those who live by the sword. I live by another SWORD.
Quote from: JulieTangSo, given that this person is BLIND and that I am not......how could I be possibly HELPING this person, this tiny spirit that is barely lit, by turning my back and walking away?
This is such a HEINOUS strawman, Julie.
Quote from: Seth on November 22, 2013, 10:52:01 PM
Quote from: JulieTangSo, given that this person is BLIND and that I am not......how could I be possibly HELPING this person, this tiny spirit that is barely lit, by turning my back and walking away?
This is such a HEINOUS strawman, Julie.
:HeartThrob: I cannot say anything more than I have said Seth. You might see this as a HEINOUS strawman, I see a simple question. I am sure we both can agree that we both can only see what we have been given to see.
Love Julie :HeartThrob: :dsunny:
Are you saying that I am saying I would turn my back and walk away? If so, that is a strawman and it is offensive. But I forgive you for it. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Seth on November 22, 2013, 11:51:50 PM
Are you saying that I am saying I would turn my back and walk away? If so, that is a strawman and it is offensive. But I forgive you for it. :HeartThrob:
For the record: Julie never said SETH would walk away. I believe only God knows what any of us will do in any stressful situation.
I must tell you that I nearly fell out of my chair when you said this:
Which sword sets a man at variance against his father and daughter against her mother You think Jesus wanted them to KILL their parents with physical swords, and daughters to kill their mothers with physical swords? The SWORD AND THE CLOAK are the same as the ARMOR OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. It has nothing to do will killing your enemies and living by the iron sword. THE SWORD IS THE WORD OF GOD
Of course, your very words were exactly what was implied. :HeartThrob:
It is good to forgive and to be forgiven. Thank you. :gimmefive:
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
Quote from: JulieTang84 on November 23, 2013, 12:09:53 AM
I must tell you that I nearly fell out of my chair when you said this:
Which sword sets a man at variance against his father and daughter against her mother You think Jesus wanted them to KILL their parents with physical swords, and daughters to kill their mothers with physical swords? The SWORD AND THE CLOAK are the same as the ARMOR OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. It has nothing to do will killing your enemies and living by the iron sword. THE SWORD IS THE WORD OF GOD
Of course, your very words were exactly what was implied. :HeartThrob:
Thank you for clarifying the above.
As to the quote above, I believe I asked a question, not an implication of what you really believe. That Christ brings a sword, is not debated. Rather, what Jesus meant by that is what I explained.
:HeartThrob:
I have a question. This post has clearly caused some contention and some hurt feelings. Why does anyone care about what Bill O'Reilly thinks and why did anyone think it was a good idea to post it in here? I know sometimes things can get a little slow, but is God not speaking to anyone here? Are you not being challenged and inspired by the Lord that you have nothing relevant and inspired to share instead of lazily cutting and pasting irrelevant nonsense and then treating everyone like they're trained seals and saying "discuss" I for one am NOT a trained monkey or seal, nor do I appreciate pointless posts that expect me to act like one.
I would rather read about something good that happened to each of you today. It would be more encouraging and bring forth a better fruit. Sorry if it feels a little like a mini-rant, but this lazy form of posting annoys the heck out of me. (Can't annoy the hell anymore)
:punish: :flamebreath: :doh:
Watchman1706, I can assure again that my feelings were not hurt. The reason I keep pressing that point is so that people don't think that I am fragile and that they cannot disagree with me without hurting my feelings. People can disagree with me without having to feel that my disagreements come from hurt feelings. So I just want to get that out of the way.
As to the OP's original intent, I cannot say. It was obviously something that interested him. But it led to a bigger discussion and I am glad for it. I feel that if you don't like the original post or subsequent discussion, you are under no obligation to participate. :dunno2:
Quote from: Seth on November 23, 2013, 02:13:13 AM
Watchman1706, I can assure again that my feelings were not hurt. The reason I keep pressing that point is so that people don't think that I am fragile and that they cannot disagree with me without hurting my feelings. People can disagree with me without having to feel that my disagreements come from hurt feelings. So I just want to get that out of the way.
As to the OP's original intent, I cannot say. It was obviously something that interested him. But it led to a bigger discussion and I am glad for it. I feel that if you don't like the original post or subsequent discussion, you are under no obligation to participate. :dunno2:
:friendstu: Well said Seth. I truly thought I hurt your feelings. My mistake, for it surely was not my intent. Please know that you did not hurt my feelings either. I too am glad for the bigger discussion and certainly how it ended. No hurt feelings and lots of respect. That is always a good thing.
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
Just who or what does bill o'rielly have to do with anything that happens in the world of men and women who believe in Jesus Christ the Savior of the world? I wonder.....bill o'rielly does what he does for money and recognition, and he is in that position to upset your world with news media. Television, in and of itself will never help a person who believes in Jesus Christ, it is an incendiary to FAITH. Yes I watch TV and at times o'rielly, I am weak, I am by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, weaning off the piranha of TV, politics, and worldly silliness.
Who really cares what o'rielly says? Wake up. Where is YOUR citizenship?
Php 3:20 For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await--the Lord Jesus Christ--
Quote from: JulieTang84 on November 23, 2013, 02:28:12 AM
:friendstu: Well said Seth. I truly thought I hurt your feelings. My mistake, for it surely was not my intent. Please know that you did not hurt my feelings either. I too am glad for the bigger discussion and certainly how it ended. No hurt feelings and lots of respect. That is always a good thing.
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
:thumbsup:
SETH/JULIE:
I LOVE WHAT YOU BOTH SAY SCRIPTURALLY BUT IT SADDENS ME THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE A CONTENTIOUSNESS IN YOUR , ALBEIT , RESTRAINED RESPONSES. MAYBE YOU THINK THIS IS NECESSARY TO GET EACH OF YOU TO REFLECT ON THE OTHERS POINTS OF VIEW BUT I HAVE TO WONDER ABOUT THAT.
I SUSPECT THAT NEITHER OF YOU ARE ALWAYS LISTENING THE EACH OTHER WHEN YOU DO RESPOND BUT RATHER WANT TO PERSIST IN YOU VIEW POINTS TO WHERE NOTHING SEEMS TO GET RESOLVED .
THE CONVERSATION TENDS TO BECOME QUITE CIRCULAR IN MY OPINION TO WHERE THERE IS NO CLOSURE BETWEEN YOU (I.E. THERE IS RARELY AGREEMENT BUT SINCE I HAVEN'T BEEN ON THIS SITE AS LONG AS MANY OF YOU , MAYBE THERE HAS BEEN, I JUST HAVEN'T SEEN IT) .
I HOPE I'M WRONG ABOUT THAT.
ANOTHER GOOD THREAD WOULD BE TO STUDY HOW JESUS HANDLED BICKERING AND DISPUTE AMONG HIS 12 DISCIPLES.
Disagreements happen...I don't think I was bickering, but that's just me. Peace
AND PEACE TO YOU, TOO, MY FRIEND.
Quote from: T-Bone on November 23, 2013, 03:53:34 AM
THE CONVERSATION TENDS TO BECOME QUITE CIRCULAR IN MY OPINION TO WHERE THERE IS NO CLOSURE BETWEEN YOU (I.E. THERE IS RARELY AGREEMENT BUT SINCE I HAVEN'T BEEN ON THIS SITE AS LONG AS MANY OF YOU , MAYBE THERE HAS BEEN, I JUST HAVEN'T SEEN IT) .
I HOPE I'M WRONG ABOUT THAT.
Sometimes there's actual agreement around here :laugh:.
Often it's various people stating various understandings, with hardly ever a "ah, I get it, you're right..wow! thanks for that, I was so wrong!" :footmouth:
I HAVE seen subtle changes over time though, but it may be over a year or two - where you can tell something has definitely "rubbed off" on someone - including me. And you can realize in self or see in others, change/agreement has occurred. It's usually just not an obvious "aha!" moment.
One of the neatest examples; we had a long time member here, who wasn't a believer in the reconciliation/salvation of all. One day, after about 3 years, I saw them say something like "it's the
ages! God's working through the
ages! I get it!!!". Pretty neat. :dsunny:
Just to add my two cents.
I try to be as patient and as loving as I can always. I have read what Seth has to say and how he says many times; he shows great patience and wisdom. Sure, there are times when things do not seem to reach reconciliation, seems to me we came pretty close this time round. There was just one or two things seen/understood a little differently.
I do NOT believe that it is mandatory for everyone to see or believe as I, frankly it just isn't possible, One would think a religion, with one God, one Savior and one Holy Book, that EVERYONE would be on the same page. Why aren't they?
Well it could be because of the following:
I Cor. 12:12-30
"But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other... Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues"
On the surface, this might not appear to be a big deal, but it is quite obvious that ALL of the "members of the body" must be fully capable of working with the rest of the body. Perhaps Father wants much more than a superficial cohesion, but a cohesion of body parts that have been truly tried and tested.
Rom 12:6
We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. .......
So what matters most? That we all agree on everything, or that we remain true to the gift / truth that has been given each of us?
Well, unless we can do the following, I would say neither.
Rom 12:10
Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves.
Just my thoughts
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
good thoughts all :thumbsup:
Having learned over the years and willing to share this with anyone who this might help also
That emotions [soul /seat of emotions] have never solved issues , they actually seem to get in the way , its reason that works !
Even the scriptures speak of ''Come let us reason together ''
Knowing that many times when the scriptures are shared with someones understanding of them has helped me greatly and persuades a repentance /change of mind towards just what pleases the Lord with better understanding and the counsel of His will
Knowing God Our Father though the Lord Jesus Christ is the greatest joy of salvation we can be blessed with , in my own opinion and that in UR everyone will be saved in Gods wonderful plan of the ages !!
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Strong's H3198 - yakach
to prove, decide, judge, rebuke, reprove, correct, be right
(Hiphil)
to decide, judge
to adjudge, appoint
to show to be right, prove
to convince, convict
to reprove, chide
to correct, rebuke
(Hophal) to be chastened
(Niphal) to reason, reason together
(Hithp) to argue
Its always interesting to learn new things of the Holy Spirit and grow in truth and grace
REALLY good post rose. :angelharp:
SO THIS COMES TO MIND.
IF "YAKACH" MEANS NOT ONLY TO REASON WITH BUT TO ALSO REBUKE, THEN WHAT DOES THE BIBLE MEAN WHEN IT SAYS " YOU ARE NOT TO REBUKE( CORRECT, REPROVE,REASON WITH ) A FOOL" AND SINCE JESUS REBUKED(CORRECTED, REPROVED, REASONED WITH ) THE PHARISEES MORE THAN ONCE , HE WAS REBUKING A FOOL ( IN THIS CASE, THE PHARISEES) .
CORRECT?
THE PHARISEES WERE DEVOUT RELIGIOUS FANATICS WHO STRONGLY BELIEVED IN JUDAISM ( AND THE RESURRECTION ,ALSO BTW , AS WE DO.)
HOW DOES THAT MAKE THEM "FOOLS" AND NOT WE WHO ARE DEVOUT CHRISTIANS WHO STRONGLY BELIEVE IN UR.
COULD THIS POSSIBLY BE A CASE OF "THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK"? OR ANOTHER WAY TO ASK THIS QUESTION IS TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT A "FOOL" IS FOR WE ARE NEVER TO CALL A MAN A "FOOL" ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES.
Proverbs 26
4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
Seems like a contradiction. Don't answer a fool according to his folly but DO answer a fool according to his folly. I think the resolution has to do with the intention. Verse 4 shows the net result: being like the fool. And verse 5 shows another intent: that he will not be wise in his own conceit.
In other words, however you proceed, do not be LIKE the fool. If you are not LIKE the fool, answer him according to his folly, to show the foolishness in his own conceits.
Great question T BONE !!
and like Seths answer
But also we could consider the Lord , when He rebukes us and chastens us and scourges us !
For God uses vessels of honor and dishoner to do this in my opinion
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Hbr 12:3 ΒΆ For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Hbr 12:4 [b]Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.[/b]
Hbr 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Hbr 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Hbr 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Hbr 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
I was going to put up a post about the Body of Moses[Being the Law and ministration of death ] and Michael contended with the devil , did not rebuke him , but said the LORD REBUKE YOU
For me the Lords rebuke is the only way anyone can back off or change our minds /repent
Its not somthing many are called to do in my opinion , but see this as the Body of Moses [ the LAW ] was !!! the ministration Was to point to sin and death as the result , repent for the kingdom of God is at hand [in power]
We can see this clearly when John the Baptist [ in the Spirit of Elijah ] the prophecy representing the LAW and Prophets came as the precurser to the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ . when Jesus was baptised in the Jordan river .
For my faith I do believe that is what the Devil was trying to accuse to God those children[in the body of Moses the Law ] day and night , before he was cast down to the earth from Heaven
Jesus is the first man child to represent fulfilling the Law in His Body , beinging in many sons into Glory and the presence of God !
Quote from: roseredI was going to put up a post about the Body of Moses[Being the Law and ministration of death ] and Michael contended with the devil , did not rebuke him , but said the LORD REBUKE YOU
I'd love to know your thoughts on it.
Quote from: roseredFor me the Lords rebuke is the only way anyone can back off or change our minds /repent
Its not somthing many are called to do in my opinion , but see this as the Body of Moses [ the LAW ] was !!! the ministration Was to point to sin and death as the result , repent for the kingdom of God is at hand [in power]
I think this is why ETers get angry when you quote scripture to them to show them their error. The Lord is rebuking them through the scripture.
SETH/ROSERED:
THANKS FOR SHEDDING SOME LIGHT ON THIS MATTER.
ALL GOOD POINTS AND I WILL CONSIDER THEM CLOSELY.
Quote from: Seth on November 25, 2013, 08:52:43 PM
Quote from: roseredFor me the Lords rebuke is the only way anyone can back off or change our minds /repent
Its not somthing many are called to do in my opinion , but see this as the Body of Moses [ the LAW ] was !!! the ministration Was to point to sin and death as the result , repent for the kingdom of God is at hand [in power]
I think this is why ETers get angry when you quote scripture to them to show them their error. The Lord is rebuking them through the scripture.
This is something that Father has revealed to me many times. The paradigm has changed, the message is the same, but the understanding: not so much.
Before Spirit came (as Jesus promised) The Law was the baseline, and many stuck to it and nothing else. Many have not heeded the Spirit and stick to it still. The Spirit unveils LOVE :HeartThrob: whereas the Law was backed by FEAR. I am not in anyway saying the LAW was the benchmark of FEAR, because David in his 23rd Psalm totally "Got it!" Never the less, Father ruled through Fear in the OT and was quite ruthless. There was very good reason to FEAR HIM.
All of this is important, because back then there was not the Spirit to garner discernment. This was very hard-core, "Do what I say or ELSE." Many, many churches use FEAR even today, and a multitude of people buy into the Fear and grasp hold of whatever belief they can (TOTALLY IGNORING LOVE) and just run with it, blindly; they being in effect no different than the peoples of old.
This is sad, because even in the days of the LAW, Father's true nature could be clearly seen and understood, one just had to simply look outside the Box. The undertone of all the prophets and OT writers speak of Fathers Love, but we MUST remember, the peoples that were being written, needed to be ruled by an iron fist. They respect FEAR, and sadly many still do today at the cost of LOVE.
This is why the ET'ers get extremely angry when Scripture is quoted that contradicts their own interpretation. They say we are twisting the truth, when in fact it is themselves through FEAR of their LIVES cannot even consider a different perspective. They have not the eyes and heart of LOVE. Yet it is more than this. They do not have the LOVE for Father enough to let go of all they understand. Something they were told to do in the days of LAW.
Spirit filled children of Father, fully understand the full SIGNIFICANCE of Jesus's hand full of words.
He said that he came to FULFILL the Scriptures; all were completed in HIM. The importance of this is self explanatory, for if one needs to understand what the LAW really meant, they need look no further than to Jesus. Looking anywhere else is pretty much a waste of time. SHOCKING! I guess, but true, for now with Spirit filled eyes and hearts, we CANNOT hope to gain the understanding that was originally intended, for we cannot step out of our loved filled hearts and take on a heart of FEAR.
Jesus just gave two commandments: Love Father with all that we are and LOVE EVERYONE ELSE with the same LOVE we have for ourselves.
If we CANNOT LOVE ourselves TRULY and be THANKFUL!!!!!!!!!!! for the small amount of Spirit we have; if we do NOT feel the INCREDIBLY SPECIAL as one of FATHERS CHILDREN, then we do not love ourselves as much as we should. We cannot love our neighbor as much as we should and we CANNOT LOVE FATHER.
The ET'ers totally do not see this or are even willing to comprehend it. Love is not part of their faith; a faith that is ruled by Sin and Fear. They believe in a god that is incapable of love and their love is but a reflection of their faith.
This is the SECRET, it doesn't matter!!!!!! It is not about them, but only about each of us. How is that we shine in a world of darkness? We are to be the Light's on the Hill. It is us who are through LOVE and LIGHT that will change the world, which is what Jesus was sent to start.
Julie stepping off of here soapbox.........sorry :cloud9:
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
That was a great post Julie ,
I agree with you its the difference between saving them with fear [being servants of God ]and salvation in perfect /complete Love , could only be done with the union of The Father and the Son relationship
I can see this found as acceptable in Jude , being the Letter of the Law [written word ] on the tables hearts of stone , the warning was always harden not your hearts
but the Spoken Word [ Spoken by Jesus Christ the testimony of Jesus Christ being '' the SPIRIT of Prophecy'' ] would change the hearts to flesh , His flesh , being the pure and holy
that to me is why Pauls said I would that you all prophesied , having the SPIRIT OF CHRIST and the Spirit of God in them Father and Son perfect bond of Love , same Witness thus creating the Living WORD within our vessels for His use and purpose . until they recieved the Holy SPIRIT [both Father and Son after the Cross ] for forgiveness of sins
they were just being prepared to recieve Christ/ that annointing of both the Holy Spirit /ghost . the turors that lead to Jesus Christ . the baptism of John the Baptist being cleaned out to recive the Lord and presence of God to dwell in us
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Jhn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Jhn 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
forgiven or held in judgment till they change , this Living Word is powerful of itself !
In my opinion the difference yet both helpful , in saving the Holy Spirit remits sin or retains
Keep Yourselves in the Love of God
17 But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
18 that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts."
19 These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
22 And have mercy on some, who are doubting; 23 save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
Its just awesome to me to be able to talk about these things and there is union with other believers whom are given the same , , many years ago I had no clue to how the Lord was going to save all mankind and , yet I knew he would do His perfect work as promised and am just now after all these years understanding a little more all the time , its exciting for me whom has given up on the world and its desires to put all my hope and trust in Him . What an awesome God !! hope springs eternal from His Living waters /Word of Life :girlheart:
Quote from: T-Bone on November 27, 2013, 03:44:26 PM
SETH/ROSERED:
THANKS FOR SHEDDING SOME LIGHT ON THIS MATTER.
ALL GOOD POINTS AND I WILL CONSIDER THEM CLOSELY.
God bless you T-Bone , all we can do is be thankful for Gods awesome mercy and grace given to us at this time :thumbsup: I thank Him for helping us as we all help each other and we can reason together with His Spirit is our LIGHT SHINING within our dark places !!
All here desire More of HIM in our lives :girlheart:
Quote from: rosered on November 27, 2013, 08:13:33 PM Its just awesome to me to be able to talk about these things and there is union with other believers whom are given the same , , many years ago I had no clue to how the Lord was going to save all mankind and , yet I knew he would do His perfect work as promised and am just now after all these years understanding a little more all the time , its exciting for me whom has given up on the world and its desires to put all my hope and trust in Him . What an awesome God !! hope springs eternal from His Living waters /Word of Life :girlheart:
Thanks RoseRed :girlheart: It is indeed awesome to be able to share ones heart with like minded believers. Iron sharpens iron and I believe we are all better because of the discourse. I feel I have a slightly different view of SIN than most on this forum. To the ER'ers, sin is the mainstay, they build themselves on the basis of how they admit how SINFUL they are. The more unworthy they can make themselves feel, the more justified they are at looking down on all else, resulting in the more self righteous they feel. Sounds fair, but lacking LOVE.I see myself to Father as I was to my earthly father as a 3 yr old. Willing to please, but a very short attention span resulting in my heart and mind being all over the place. I was too busy enjoying life, living and learning, but mostly having fun. I did not have a care in the world. What was sin?It cannot be any different today. Whilst ever anyone lives in fear of "messing" up, Love has been shelved and forgotten. There is a paradox regarding SIN. The more one thinks, ponders, worries, etc. THE GREATER it becomes. Sin becomes so much more than a misstep or lack in judgment, something as a 3 yr old I had PLENTY of. Our Loving Spirit Father knows we are but walking and know so little; he expects us to mess up. It's a given. Now, I am talking here of only those whom have been blessed with the Spirit of Truth. Paul said that we are dead to sin, which means sin is dead to us. We need worry no more about messing up, making mistakes, thinking bad thoughts, because whilst ever we give more concern to that part of our learning, fear becomes our mantra instead of love.So realizing we are but infants first and foremost, that we are to LOVE and TRUST Father in everything,; we can relax and be open to EVERYTHING that comes our way. If we are LISTENING, we know that something is wrong long before it becomes a sin. Listening, is a problem like it is for any three yr old. We will choose not to listen at times and yes do something we might should not have. This is all about growing in Love and Spirit. Hearing Father comes easy with time. Not because we are TRYING out of FEAR, but LOVE clears the way, the way it has always done.What happens when one hears Father and ignores Him. Oh MY GOSH!!!! Just like most 3 yr olds, they will plead ignorance, throw a tantrum, or give a heart wrenching look that just melts the hardest of hearts. This is all a part of Growing Up and does not last forever. Our Loving Father knows all of this, He is patient and He is loving. If only we could love Him as He loves us......Sin is not our stumbling block, Jesus took care of that. Rather it it is unwillingness to LET GO of EVERYTHING except Fathers Hand. With LOVE there is nothing to FEAR.Gosh I am wordy todayLove Julie :cloud9:
Here are my thoughts on sin, and some of which my differ and some might parallel with what you said above.
As an ETer, I grew up thinking that sin was simply that which angered God. I still had a view of God's anger as being like my own anger, which is filtered through the flesh. So, ET teaches us that sin angers a holy God and salvation is being covered and hid away from the anger by Jesus.
I even carried some of those notions into UR with me, until I realized more and more what sin is really about and why salvation is necessary. My shift in thinking came by realizing that salvation is not a matter of escaping an angry God, but escaping that which is BAD for us.
Sin begins in the heart, not the actions. Sin brings pleasure to the flesh, but underneath all that is a soul that needs help. What seems like fun, is not fun at all. People out there are stuck in spiritual situations that are bad for them, and that are causing ruin in their lives.
You can see this ruin fictionalized on television and film these days. See the ruin it brings people's lives to be caught up in drugs and prostitution and pornography. The salvation message is not simply to stay there and feel safe, but to GET OUT of way of that which harms you.
This is the Apostle message all the way through and it is a message of Love because Love does not ignore those who are sick, but provides a way to be made well. That is why the Holy Spirit is given to man, to guide them in the ways of Christ and to save us from this untoward generation that we may not participate in the darkness any longer.
Quote from: Seth on November 27, 2013, 09:38:16 PM
Here are my thoughts on sin, and some of which my differ and some might parallel with what you said above.
This is the Apostle message all the way through and it is a message of Love because Love does not ignore those who are sick, but provides a way to be made well. That is why the Holy Spirit is given to man, to guide them in the ways of Christ and to save us from this untoward generation that we may not participate in the darkness any longer.
Would you believe that I have NO disagreement with anything you wrote Seth. :friendstu:
You absolutely encapsulated all I said or wanted to say in one sentence. It has nothing to do with how hard we try, or how hard we beat ourselves up for the mistakes we are going to make. It never was, because all that is required is being open and willing to be lead by the Spirit. We must alway have a Spiritual hand outreached for Father.
Father will not take us by the hand until we are willing to take His and not let go. This is where real LIVING begins in the Light :dsunny: of Love :HeartThrob:
Much Love, Julie
Yes, his yoke is not heavy but LIGHT because he loves us :dsunny: