Baptism (of Jesus)

[WhiteWings]

I think ancient Jewish baptism is different from how many see baptism today. For example (imo) John Baptist never entered the Jordan.
I'll start this thread with a few pictures and add text later today.
Notice how John Baptist stands on the river bank. Nude Jesus stands in the water. Dove above Him. Someone is holding the garments of Jesus.




(http://www.adventistalternative.org/Baptism_files/image18.jpg) (http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/8863/baptismcolor.jpg)

(http://www.adventistalternative.org/Baptism_files/image19.jpg)  (http://www.adventistalternative.org/Baptism_files/image20.jpg) (http://www.adventistalternative.org/Baptism_files/image25.jpg) (http://www.wga.hu/art/g/giotto/padova/3christ/scenes_2/chris07.jpg) (http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6074/baptismmosaic.jpg)

[WhiteWings]

Several verses about ritual washings

Hebrews 9:10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings —external regulations applying until the time of the new order.
Exodus 29:4 Then bring Aaron and his sons to the entrance to the tent of meeting and wash them with water
Exodus 30:19 Aaron and his sons are to wash their hands and feet with water from it.
Exodus 30:20 Whenever they enter the tent of meeting, they shall wash with water so that they will not die. Also, when they approach the altar to minister by presenting a food offering to the Lord,
Exodus 19:10 And the Lord said to Moses, "Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow. Have them wash their clothes
Deuteronomy 23:11 But as evening approaches he is to wash himself, and at sunset he may return to the camp.

2 kings 5:10 Elisha sent a messenger to say to him, "Go, wash yourself seven times in the Jordan, and your flesh will be restored and you will be cleansed."



Even as they circumcise and baptize proselytes, so do they circumcise and baptize servants who are received from Gentiles, &c. : Maim. Issure Biah, cap. 13. " When a proselyte is received, he must be circumcised,  and when he is cured, they baptize him in the presence of two wise men, &c. : Talmud Babyl. Mass. Jevamoth, fol. 47.

When a pagan became a Jew he was considered reborn into the family od Abraham.


Luke 3:3 He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

[WhiteWings]

The Clementine Homilies mention baptism frequently. Chapter 19, dealing with "Privileges of the baptized", says:


"In the present life, washing in a flowing river, or a fountain, or even in the sea, with the thrice-blessed invocation, you shall not only be able to drive away the spirits which lurk in you; but yourselves no longer sinning, and undoubtingly believing God, you shall drive out evil spirits and dire demons with terrible diseases, from others."

A document, which dates from the early second century – the Didache, or the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, ch.7, reads:
"Regarding baptism, baptize thus .... 'Baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit' in running water. But, if you have no running water, baptize in any other; and, if you cannot in cold water, then in warm. But, if one is lacking, pour the other three times on the head 'in the name of the Father, and Son, and Holy Spirit."

Roman Catholic editors of this work have added as a footnote: "Baptism was usually by immersion of the whole body."Some baptism methods.

Mark 1:
9 At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.

Acts 8:39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.
=> Both men were in the water.


Acts 8:36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?"  38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.
==> Baptism in a pond?


Acts 16:33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized.
==> Baptized at home in a bath.

Re-baptism:

Acts 19
1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples
2 and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."
3 So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied.
4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

[lomarah]

Very interesting... I do wonder what exactly baptizing was like back in the apostles day. It would seem they didn't dunk in church tanks like today. Gasp!  :laughing7:

[WhiteWings]

Acts 16:33 was in a Roman bath. (?)

[lomarah]

River would be cooler. :) (And colder.)

[WhiteWings]

As cold as possible as you can read above. So in your case the first melting water  :boogie:

(http://images.zaazu.com/img/Frozen-frozen-freeze-winter-smiley-emoticon-000590-medium.gif)

...if you cannot in cold water, then...

[lomarah]

HA! I think dying from my heart stopping would be counterproductive in this case. :)

[WhiteWings]

In a river; not in case. :fool:

[WhiteWings]

The baptismal water (Mikveh) in rabbinic literature was referred to as the womb of the world, and as a convert came out of the water it was considered a new birth separating him from the pagan world. As the convert came out of these waters his status was changed and he was referred to as "a little child just born" or "a child of one day" (Yeb. 22a; 48b; 97b). We see the New Testament using similar Jewish terms as "born anew," "new creation," and "born from above", although among Nasarenes one was seen as born anew and separated from the non-Essene world, and among B'nai-Amen the immersion meant separation from all the world, including the unconsecrated Nasarenes.

The building of the mikveh was so important in ancient times it was said to take precedence over the construction of a synagogue. On the third day of creation we see the source of the word mikveh for the first time in Genesis 1:10 when the Lord says,

"...to the gathering (mikveh) of waters, He called seas."
Because of this reference in Genesis the ocean is still a legitimate mikveh to orthodox Jews.



http://www.essene.com/B'nai-Amen/MysticalImmersion.htm

[redhotmagma]

I was just looking at those pictures before I just saw this most recent post WW about the birth canal.  I was just going to comment that it looks like a birth canal. 

[lomarah]

It totally does rhm, doesn't it?? Didn't notice that til you said it. Very cool!

[Cardinal]

@ WW......that mikvah of waters being called seas, really caught my attention.....will have to meditate before the Lord on that one......thanks

[WhiteWings]

What about the Laver in the Temple? That was also nick-named "sea".
Priests who washed themself (all did of course) were allowed to serve/approach God (in His house).
You see that/a connection?

[anna274]

The baptismal water (Mikveh) in rabbinic literature was referred to as the womb of the world, and as a convert came out of the water it was considered a new birth separating him from the pagan world. As the convert came out of these waters his status was changed and he was referred to as "a little child just born" or "a child of one day" (Yeb. 22a; 48b; 97b). We see the New Testament using similar Jewish terms as "born anew," "new creation," and "born from above", although among Nasarenes one was seen as born anew and separated from the non-Essene world, and among B'nai-Amen the immersion meant separation from all the world, including the unconsecrated Nasarenes.

The building of the mikveh was so important in ancient times it was said to take precedence over the construction of a synagogue. On the third day of creation we see the source of the word mikveh for the first time in Genesis 1:10 when the Lord says,

"...to the gathering (mikveh) of waters, He called seas."
Because of this reference in Genesis the ocean is still a legitimate mikveh to orthodox Jews.



http://www.essene.com/B'nai-Amen/MysticalImmersion.htm

Thanks WW:  I really appreciate the "cultural background information".  It helps me understand more and more why the religious leaders couldn't "SEE" , couldn't recognize the Messiah.  They kept their eyes on the physical and judged everybody, everything according to the five physical senses.

====

and also the "rabbinic literature information" it takes us away from comparing physical with physical by introducing a concept ("a little child is born," etc.) which brings us closer to understanding a spiritual truth ("born anew, new creation, born from above") which might just lead us to comparing spiritual with spiritual.  1 Cor 2:13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth; but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

[Cardinal]

What about the Laver in the Temple? That was also nick-named "sea".
Priests who washed themself (all did of course) were allowed to serve/approach God (in His house).
You see that/a connection?

Yes, I knew that part, I just didn't realize mikvah was in Genesis having never looked up that word before. Anything in Genesis 1 is repeated throughout, I've found over the years, and is always most important. If I had the time, I'd like to translate all of the Torah, word by word, according to present understanding. I'm sure it would hold a lot treasures.

[WhiteWings]

In the book of Adam and Eve after being kicked out of Eden the both stood in a different river for 40 days. At least that was the plan. IIRC Eve gave up after 38 days.

[WhiteWings]

What about the Laver in the Temple? That was also nick-named "sea".
Priests who washed themself (all did of course) were allowed to serve/approach God (in His house).
You see that/a connection?

Yes, I knew that part, I just didn't realize mikvah was in Genesis having never looked up that word before. Anything in Genesis 1 is repeated throughout, I've found over the years, and is always most important.

Is LoF some sort of forced baptism?

[lomarah]

Good question haha!!

[WhiteWings]

(http://jesus-messiah.com/gifs/mikvehsouth.jpg)
Mikveh dated around Jesus' time.


Mikveh is the gathering together of any waters where any form of washing or passing through is considered an act of cleansing and sanctification.  The term arises from the creation account when God gathered the waters and separated the land from the sea. From this springs the idea that in all acts of Mikveh there is a separation made by the water.  It is said when the children passed through the Red Sea on the way to the promised land and were thus separated and sanctified unto Moses from Egyptian defilement, that this was a mikveh.   The passing through the waters of the Red Sea is called a mikveh by Jews.  Likewise, any passing through waters of separation  by any means of cleansing is called a mikveh.

[WhiteWings]

The Water Restrictions
There were also six basic restrictions on the water used in the mikveh including such rules as:
(1) the mikveh can not contain other liquid besides water. (2) The water has to be either built into the ground or be an integral part of a building attached to the ground. (3) The mikveh can not be flowing except for a natural spring, river or ocean. (4) The water can not be manually drawn. (5) The water can not be channeled to the mikveh by anything unclean. (6) The mikveh must contain at least 40 sa'ah or approximately 200 gallons of water.

The term sa'ah is an ancient Biblical measurement equivalent to approximately five gallons. All six requirements come from the original Hebrew words found in Leviticus 11:36. Rabbi Yitzchok ben Sheshes said the amount of 40 sa'ah was derived from the idea that the largest normal human body has a volume of 20 sa'ah, therefore the amount of water needed to "nullify" this body is double this amount or 40 sa'ah.

[WhiteWings]

I was just looking at those pictures before I just saw this most recent post WW about the birth canal.  I was just going to comment that it looks like a birth canal.

It was in the Jordan.
Jordan = the descender.

Born from above. Jordan's 3 headwaters are located on and at the base of Mt Hermon. Hermon the throne of God (?)

(http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/mthermon.jpg)
Mt. Hermon

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7053/sionsprings.gif)

[Molly]

Moses=dry baptism.  They passed through on dry land.  They had manna every day but it could not save them.

Joshua=partial baptism.  Water was up to the ankles of the priests.  On the other side, they were circumcised, the second circumcision.

John the Baptist=full baptism, descending of the Holy Spirit, born from above, circumcision of the heart, manna saves them to eternal life.

[Cardinal]

 :goodpost:

[anna274]

Hi WW:

As always, I really appreciate the information you post here at TM forum.  I particularly like the photos as they take me back to my trip to Israel in 1985... but that's another story.  I'm posting here because I had never heard or seen the name "Lake Huleh" and I'm not a beginner in Scriptural Studies!!!!  So, of course, I went to the Internet via Bing and found a ton of material on Lake Huleh.  Thanks for sending me on another trip.  As part of the Christian pilgrimage of 1985, we did stop at the Jordan River...the thing that's most vivid in my mind is how dirty it seemed;  but as I said, that's another story.  Thanks WW for all the time and effort you put into bringing us some very helpful information.  God bless, anna