A simple revelation

Started by Lefein, November 26, 2010, 07:29:37 AM

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Lefein

"It is finished"

It is ended - an end has been reached.  What end?  The separation of man and God has ended.  There is no room for any idea of the ceaseless separation of God and man (eternal hell, or eternal destruction), when Jesus Christ himself ended it that very day for every man, woman, and child.

The debt has been paid, nothing left is owed - except ourselves.  God has taken our loan, and paid it - with interest, all now are his own, bought with a price, himself.  And God will repossess what he has bought, and with interest that he will grow.  He will have ourselves, for he is a good steward - and not a single one of us will get out of his arms until we've paid up to the very last farthing!  How impossible is it to pay back God for our infinitely priceless selves, how impossible to pay back that infinite interest of God in us?

How good it is!  To be in debt to God our father - for the borrower is servant to the lender.

micah7:9

Rom 5:1  Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
G1344 Justified to render (that is, show or regard as) just or innocent: - free, justify (-ier), be righteous
From G1342 equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, meet, right (-eous)
Righteous  G1342 equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, meet, right (-eous)

WhiteWings

Quote from: Lefein on November 26, 2010, 07:29:37 AMHow good it is!  To be in debt to God our father - for the borrower is servant to the lender.
If the debt is paid there is no more borrower or lender.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Lefein

Think of it this way.

Our debt pre-cross, was ourselves in sin.  The old testament laws show a great deal of "if you can't pay your debt, you're sold as a slave", so basically for the debt of our sins - which we cannot repay - is slavery of ourselves.  We are the collateral for debt that we cannot pay.  Death, Sheol is the "Loan Officer" pre-cross, the wages of sin is death, death is the price paid for sins.

And so, being unable to pay the debt of our sins, we are the collateral, and we are the ones repossessed under The Law, which ministers Death; pre-cross, Death takes us as slaves, for the debt we cannot pay, and cannot work off as slaves.

Then comes Christ who pays the loans back with his own self as the collateral in our place, and pays the debt that the slaves cannot with his own wealth of righteousness; And so he buys back the slaves, having paid their debt - it is finished, with interest I'd say.

So now, Christ owns the slaves, having paid their debt with his own wealth, and self - the loan was transferred from Death, to Christ.  And so, us being his slaves - Christ has the right to make us free children who belong to him as friends, rather than slaves.  We become indebted to God as children who owe him love, and thanks for our being.

We become servant, to the lender - who lent us freedom, childhood, and being to begin with.

How good it is to be servant to the lender as a child who owes only returning to the lender what he has lent to us, and lends to us continually - freedom, childhood, life, blessings, thankfulness, righteousness, perfection, faith, trust, hope, love, the fruits of the Spirit, the Spirit himself.  Rather than owing the deadly price by which Death becomes our slave master...

WhiteWings

Quote from: Lefein on November 26, 2010, 09:00:48 AM
Think of it this way.

Our debt pre-cross, was ourselves in sin.  The old testament laws show a great deal of "if you can't pay your debt, you're sold as a slave", so basically for the debt of our sins - which we cannot repay - is slavery of ourselves.
Debts were cancledd on Sabbath and Jubilee years. Also pre-cross.

QuoteThen comes Christ who pays the loans back with his own self as the collateral in our place, and pays the debt that the slaves cannot with his own wealth of righteousness; And so he buys back the slaves, having paid their debt - it is finished, with interest I'd say.

So now, Christ owns the slaves,
Imo that's against what "tetelestai" means (or did mean)
Tetelestai was used when the debt was paid, not transfered to another slave owner.

QuoteHow good it is to be servant to the lender as a child who owes only returning to the lender what he has lent to us, and lends to us continually - freedom, childhood, life, blessings, thankfulness, righteousness, perfection, faith, trust, hope, love, the fruits of the Spirit, the Spirit himself.  Rather than owing the deadly price by which Death becomes our slave master...
I won't say that sounds very bad. But I think it's a redefenition of the word/concept "tetelestai"
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Lefein

Please don't miss the point for the sake of a semantic word study...

WhiteWings

I'm not missing the point.
You say being owned by the Son is far better than being owned by sin/death.
Agreed.
But what if tetelestai is even more glorious?
The slaves are really set completly free.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Lefein

We are set free, but as children of God, we are still owned as being His, bought with a price.

Ross

Hi;
The son of a king has the authority of the king, even though he is below the king and born to the king. The Jews killed Jesus for blasphemy because he was calling himself a son of God, even though he was in the flesh. We are told that we are joint heirs with Jesus. We are shown the kind of love the Father has given us in that we are allowed to be called sons/daughters of God. That seems to mean in the future we will be above the celestrial powers and kingdoms because of the position we have in Christ.
1 Cor 6;3  " Know you not that we will judge messengers?"

Isn't that a positive outlook that we are to be like that in the resurrection? We now have the postion, but do not yet have the new body.
Fellow brother in Christ

micah7:9

We were found Not guilty, innocent, never sinned. Not guilty
Again Rom 5:1  Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
G1344 Justified to render (that is, show or regard as) just or innocent: - free, justify (-ier), be righteous
From G1342 equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, meet, right (-eous)
Righteous  G1342 equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, meet, right (-eous)
Rom 8:1  Hence there is now, no, condemnation unto them who are in Christ Jesus;
Rom 8:2  For, the-law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus, hath set thee free from the law of sin and of death;—



WhiteWings

YLTRom 4
5 and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned--to righteousness:

Have those people just be sold to another slave owner? Or are they truely free?
If people are enslaved to sin it basicly means they must sin as commanded by their slave owner.
The oposute is true if Jesu is the slave owner.
But it also means people are controled and the good doesn't really come from within...
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

reFORMer

There's a lot more in the context where the following is found:

Romans 6:18-19 (Concordant Literal Translation)
18 Now, being freed from Sin, you are enslaved to Righteousness.
19 As a man am I saying this, because of the infirmity of your flesh. For even as you present your members as slaves to Uncleanness and to Lawlessness for lawlessness, thus now present your members as slaves to Righteousness for holiness.

He is speaking from a human point of view.  Due to the weakness of the flesh, that it becomes enslaved by what you "reckon" and "continually give yourselves over to," you have to enslave it to obey God or it will be enslaved to sin.