I have some thoughts and observations I'd like to share. If I'm writing this just for me, and it has nothing to do with anyone else on here besides me, then figure "well, I guess James got that off his chest, hopefully God's in the process of teaching the boy something", and walk on by.
First of all, I'm very guilty of this, and that's perhaps part of the reason God has called me into a season of quiet and contemplation. Secondly, I believe many are MUCH less guilty of this than myself, so probably only anyone whom this fits will be the most disturbed by what I'd like to share...and maybe only me. Having been sort of sitting back thinking about some things, it seems to me many discussion boards are really "let me prove to you what I already believe or think I know" boards. Sometimes I wonder how much we really learn from being on here. Honestly, I believe I learned (was shown) exponentially more about UR and God's plan for the ages prior to ever having come onto a discussion board. God certainly didn't lead me to a discussion board first. He initially led me to seasoned ministers of His Good News, specifically J. Preston Eby, and then I'd say pretty quickly to Tentmaker and Gary, where I read some things my eyes and mind could barely believe...things God had shown through the years about His Word, new layers of understanding to share with others...again, from an elder(s) in the faith, not from every Tom, Dick, and Harry on every discussion board that exists "out there" and wants to push each of their personal POVs. In fact, I believe I have very often found that to be hindering to my faith rather than helpful.
Sometimes I see a whole lot of people talking (including me) and wonder how much anyone's really listening (including me)...beyond hearing just enough to try to debunk the other guy's opinion with our own "wisdom" and "teaching". I personally sort of have an antaenna or "radar" for "I'm a teacher, learn from me...I'll teach you what's right". Well, maybe some of us need to be doing a whole lot more listening (to God) and learning of/from Him, than arguing with each other about how much we know and how right we are. Then, perhaps we could come together and lovingly share (discuss) where we're being led, rather than attempt to lecture each other about what we (think) we already know. It has happened that when I've tried to "teach" somebody something, it's rather quickly that I'm shown there's a piece here or a piece there that just hasn't quite come together yet for me, so I best be very careful how I share, especially however vehemently I may insist I'm right and everyone else is wrong. God usually still has more to show me, to bring to a point of clearer revelation; like right now, and about this.
When insisting on your view of the truth, expressing it as the truth rather than your current understanding, have you (or I) ever stopped to think..."what if I'm wrong"? Seriously, isn't there a chance there's something you're not seeing or God hasn't shown you (or I) quite yet?
IMO, along with scripture and prayer, a good place to start (or back up and regroup) is here
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm from the TM Home Page.
Well, those are my thoughts and opinions.
Or maybe I'm wrong.
It's the annoying part of discussion boards that you've sorta got to grin and bare it, that some folks aren't going to have a single Scripture that they're basing anything on. And when you ask 'em for a Scripture for this or that, then they'll get all squirley on you about the veracity of Scripture, Scripture not applying in this particular case, God allegedly having shown them something that they can't prove by the Scriptures yet, etc. The higher level that some have longed for at discussion boards really isn't going to be there on a so-called layman's discussion forum.
Most ministers know that they'll get crucified if they don't have chapter and verse for something, and whether their intent is exegesis verse by verse or drawing out deeper principles from the Word, they're usually going to be the type that's reading through at least the New Testament about a hundred times a year. So, tying it all together is going to come more naturally to them, not necessarily from the place of having any kind of ministry office, gifting, and spiritual endowment related to that, but from the standpoint that their morning paper is usually Scripture, their break time is the Scriptures, etc., etc.
There's only so much you can get from a discussion board situation apart from narrowing who can join a lot more thinly and sending out a bunch of invites to folks that you know would fit the description of what you're wanting that ordinarily would avoid discussion boards because of all of the concerns you've raised plus the time consuming aspect of them. But in that kind of context you're dealing mainly with something approximating a ministerial fellowship and though the questions of outsiders wouldn't necessarily go without answers, very often with that kind of group that has their roots much deeper in the Scriptures, the boards wind up coming across as being the exclusive domain of Jedi Knights where the conversations start getting really esoteric, so that at a certain point the titles of threads wouldn't be helpful for outsiders trying to find what would be particularly helpful for them.
When I first set up my own forum, I tried to sidestep some of those limitations by having close to 50 boards, but then I ran into people that liked this half dozen and were deeply offended by that dozen boards allegedly having no place at a Christian forum, etc. And finally to get rid of the confusion, I consolidated stuff down to about a dozen boards, although it's generally still all of the same topics as once upon a time. There is no good way of dealing with these kinds of concerns without becoming clique-ish or excluding folks or a million other things that even to the so-called types of folks you might like to have present would still seem a bit too "gestapo" for their tastes. As far as Biblical humility issues, that takes a lot more Scriptural depth than many people that'll ever visit here will ever have.
The only conceivable way would be for a ministry to have more than one forum and for at least one of the forums to specifically specify to leave opinions at the door and have their chapter and verse ready. The Holy Spirit can use something like that mightily, but it's going to be an entirely different type of crowd that's really hard to build and that seems to take aiona ton aiona to ever get to or over half a dozen people. I personally like how things are going around here. It's about the best you're going to get while still making it easy on Scriptural illiterates to start figuring out some basics of the Bible. What we've got to do is pray in a couple of Holy Spirit anointed Bible teachers that are really strong in the Scriptures. One in ten thousand to one in a hundred thousand folks that ever visit a site will join the forum, so...
Oh, yeah, by far things are good here. Like I said, maybe most (if not all) of this post is for me...I'm personally just tiring of struggling over "what I know and you don't (and vice versa)", especially with folks who are so set in their own thoughts and beliefs that it truly will take a revelation from God to change their mind (which is what it takes anyway :Sparkletooth:). And it's not all here (though I do find myself much less willing to engage in a struggle, especially with someone coming from a "teaching" mindset rather than just sharing/discussing/wanting to grow together)...probably more likely to just not engage them if I sense there's no real hope of "give and take". Probably more likely to play more of the moderator role, at least for this season, rather than jumping in head over heels into some doctrinal struggle that's being called a discussion :laughing7:.
Like I said, maybe God's teaching me something I need to know with this. And again, not just here...the sermon at my wife's "church" was really almost unbelievable again yesterday, and God's just having me be quiet. Don't struggle with him. Let God do HIS work...He used me to have a bit to say, he appears to be digging in harder, so maybe God will send someone else to have the next turn sharing with him.
jabcat, I liked your post.
Y'know.. I kind of wish we could all just see each other as sitting around a campfire, each with a handful of puzzle pieces. We all just share what's on our puzzle pieces with each other. We've all obviously been touched by God in some way or another, why can't we just share? Sometimes... I feel just...lost in the conversation and pushed aside because I'm not using the right words or quoting tons of scripture. To be honest, most threads are ok at first... but then it turns into a battle of wits. It's depressing. I rarely debate. I learned my lesson a long time ago... it's just.not.worth.it. It turns into a show.
Maybe we could have a campfire section of the board. I'd spend all my time there.
This is as good a thread as any to bring up something else.. :laughing7: I dislike the "300 club" and "golden member" and "bronze member" stuff besides people's names. I don't know why, that's always annoyed me. I know it is meaningless, but something about it rubs me the wrong way. It gives off an odd "aura" for lack of a better word. just my opinion.
Quote from: sparrow on March 24, 2009, 06:24:13 AM
jabcat, I liked your post.
Y'know.. I kind of wish we could all just see each other as sitting around a campfire, each with a handful of puzzle pieces. We all just share what's on our puzzle pieces with each other. We've all obviously been touched by God in some way or another, why can't we just share? ...I rarely debate...I learned my lesson a long time ago...
Very nice Sparrow. Maybe God's trying to teach this hard-head something He taught you a long time ago then.
And I know that I seemed like I sidestepped your concern about too much teaching by implying that we could use quite a bit more, but I genuinely think we're still hoovering too much in that area where there's not enough Scripture going on for people to be able to take a step back from their canons and rifles and say "this is how I see it." The bigger arguments around here have happened with the folks with the least Scripture to share about anything you can think of. Perhaps it depends on your definition of teaching 'cause I don't regard anything as teaching that doesn't have some Scripture with it. In the past, there's been a lot of dogmatizing as well as some new age-isms that purported to be revelating, but not much actual teaching. I may have missed the thread or two that you were specifically having in mind, but I've personally thought that things have been a whole lot more laid back recently to where it was more conversational than anyone on a soapbox, though. I'd personally be happy if things were more Biblically based, but some things I have to look away on because of the limited intent of the forum.
And on the forum ranking, that was set up here at this forum prior to my being made admin. If enough folks express concerns about that, I can look for any kind of off switch on that. It's been a little annoying to me too, but for different reasons.
Quote from: jabcat on March 24, 2009, 05:29:32 AM
I have some thoughts and observations I'd like to share. If I'm writing this just for me, and it has nothing to do with anyone else on here besides me, then figure "well, I guess James got that off his chest, hopefully God's in the process of teaching the boy something", and walk on by.
First of all, I'm very guilty of this, and that's perhaps part of the reason God has called me into a season of quiet and contemplation. Secondly, I believe many are MUCH less guilty of this than myself, so probably only anyone whom this fits will be the most disturbed by what I'd like to share...and maybe only me. Having been sort of sitting back thinking about some things, it seems to me many discussion boards are really "let me prove to you what I already believe or think I know" boards. Sometimes I wonder how much we really learn from being on here. Honestly, I believe I learned (was shown) exponentially more about UR and God's plan for the ages prior to ever having come onto a discussion board. God certainly didn't lead me to a discussion board first. He initially led me to seasoned ministers of His Good News, specifically J. Preston Eby, and then I'd say pretty quickly to Tentmaker and Gary, where I read some things my eyes and mind could barely believe...things God had shown through the years about His Word, new layers of understanding to share with others...again, from an elder(s) in the faith, not from every Tom, Dick, and Harry on every discussion board that exists "out there" and wants to push each of their personal POVs. In fact, I believe I have very often found that to be hindering to my faith rather than helpful.
Sometimes I see a whole lot of people talking (including me) and wonder how much anyone's really listening (including me)...beyond hearing just enough to try to debunk the other guy's opinion with our own "wisdom" and "teaching". I personally sort of have an antaenna or "radar" for "I'm a teacher, learn from me...I'll teach you what's right". Well, maybe some of us need to be doing a whole lot more listening (to God) and learning of/from Him, than arguing with each other about how much we know and how right we are. Then, perhaps we could come together and lovingly share (discuss) where we're being led, rather than attempt to lecture each other about what we (think) we already know. It has happened that when I've tried to "teach" somebody something, it's rather quickly that I'm shown there's a piece here or a piece there that just hasn't quite come together yet for me, so I best be very careful how I share, especially however vehemently I may insist I'm right and everyone else is wrong. God usually still has more to show me, to bring to a point of clearer revelation; like right now, and about this.
When insisting on your view of the truth, expressing it as the truth rather than your current understanding, have you (or I) ever stopped to think..."what if I'm wrong"? Seriously, isn't there a chance there's something you're not seeing or God hasn't shown you (or I) quite yet?
IMO, along with scripture and prayer, a good place to start (or back up and regroup) is here
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm from the TM Home Page.
Well, those are my thoughts and opinions.
Or maybe I'm wrong.
Wrong? Well, I was wrong about hell for over 27 years! That's the double edge sword. We have been wrong in the past so there is no reason to assume we will be right now or in the future. As I presently see it we see what God wants us to see.
Take a room full of Christians. Say there is a empty glass on the table in the corner. You see the glass as blue when everyone else in the room sees the glass as red. No matter, how they describe, or discuss different color variations, you eyes still see blue! So are you wrong? :dontknow:
Paul
OK, "maybe I'm seeing through the glass darkly"...do you like that better? :laughing7:
I walk my path and learn what I do and share it. For me it isn't about ever conforming to anyone elses opinion nor do I expect anyone to conform to mine simply because I put my viewpoint out there.
What I do know is that some peoples words are just gobbledy gook to me, this doesn't mean they haven't said anything worthwhile, it's just not for me. I am sure that there are people who do not like what I say, not a problem.
But anytime we go down this road, someone is going to interject their opinion on who should be listening to what, who should be posting a certain way. You can post 100 scriptures and it all amounts to what someone is trying to say with them.
There isn't one person here who has said "It what God says" when they post scripture that isn't giving their view by posting it. Doesn't matter what position you take, there will always be an interjection of a personal lifestyle with it.
Whether you support war or total passivity, whether you are a vegetarian or a die hard bambi eater you can post scriptures and maintain that God says it so everyone else better listen.
Where the problems start is when people questions the other persons walk as they start to disagree, demeaning comments hidden as jokes, sarcasm when we think that might sway someone.
The forum over at Bible truths runs a tight ship, you disagree with ray, fine, just don't express it in the forums. I left there on my own accord.
Gary has every right to make the rules over here as he sees fit. And if the door closes to what I like to say, so be it, I will go on my way. What I will not do is be confined by another persons thoughts of how I "ought" to be because they don't like it.
The reason I am that way is that I do not have time to consider every single view point and question what has become solid in my walk everyday. We will drive ourselves nuts.
Just listen to a Christian radio station for a day and try to contemplate the views of each pastor to determine if any one of them is correct. You'll go crazy.
:cloud9: It's a banquet; there's something for everyone. Eat the meat, spit out the bones. My :2c: Blessings....
I've just ordered some books, DVDs and MP3s that I hope will increase my understanding and maybe I'll learn some things farther along than I am now. Maybe something in them will deepen my experience and knowledge of God. Too often I just get fuller or more involved treatments of what I already know. My point here is that I know I'm very hungry for a knowledge of God's Word, written and incarnate. Specially when it comes to entering into experience of God and the demonstration of the Holy Spirit I can confess a needy beginner status.
Sometimes the tone of assured knowledge is as far as we get, because we're sharing what is the best of our understanding at this point. I read stuff about "Israel" but very little challenges me or puts to rest some basic questions I have. There are many who embelish the theme and with stuff good enough to copy and save; but, they tend to take sides and not answer these questions of mine.
I didn't even share in the recent activity on the baptism thread because I have personal experience that says one thing and Bible knowledge that says another. Basically my solution at the moment is that it is something that the children do. When I'm attending a baptism I participate in a more praying and prophetic way, rejoicing with those exercising their faith. I don't discuss my understandings of it doctrinally.
I have many areas that seem ambivalent to me. There are things I don't understand to my satisfaction, things that seem fundamental to me. Like why is it so hard to get rid of radically sinful sexual thoughts. I'm 60 years old. I've fought this for over 40 years, for about 25 years in ways that won't work, eventually found grace from the Lord and have even come to general victory, yet, why is it still so prevalent in my mind? How much does this condition hinder me from coming into the so much more I know is there for me in God?
Why do so many people, specially those supposed to be leaders, usually their titled Pastors, so unwilling to examine the many doctrines and practices that are absolutely unbiblical, only the traditions of men? What am I to do with the ones where I'm playing keyboards at the moment that are alive and in love with Jesus yet are so enmeshed in the tendrils of religious Kaka? Don't say pray. I'm prayin'! If I go too far I'll be ejected with bad labels. I'm sowing what I find possible to get away with. I suffer from it enough that I can't attend all the meetings. It's just too painful.
Scripture says if we speak it is to be as the oracles of God, so I intend to take that tone a bit. Then again I am a little stuffy in the way I write . . . I don't know, jabcat. It seems that a lot of what you're feeling might be the limitations of the medium. Live chat rooms might seem less that way though I know the same thing is there, a certain disconnect from those with whom you share. It seems we can't easily be very intimate in fellowship in this format. Whether that would explain a good portion of the alienation you describe . . . ? We don't often seem to participate in shared ongoing study, or what passes for it seems to be postings of position papers. Is that what seems off-putting? In live chat I've enjoyed entering into worship and the shared presence of the Lord that is rare in these "series of posts" point/counterpoint style of communication.
:cloud9: PS. I've said on at least one occasion on here, that I heard something and don't yet have the scriptures to "flesh" it out, and I stand by it. He does that sometimes, I think, as a test. Will I trust His voice that I know, no matter what? No bird stays on the ground/foundation all the time, but must allow the wind of the Spirit to float them along in faith and trust that they will land on the foundation again eventually.
Hearing His voice does not just come in just scriptures, but concepts or precepts (wisdom) that the scriptures witness to. The apostles had the concepts made life in them, and THEN they could write the scriptures explaining what had been birthed within them by the impregnation of the Spirit.
They didn't have the scriptures (not even the OT, only the priests could handle them) to quote back and forth to one another, they were dependent upon the Spirit to impregnate them and produce new life in them, over and over, and what was shared was the fruit of the Word that is Spirit, made life in them. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on March 24, 2009, 07:08:15 AM
:cloud9: It's a banquet; there's something for everyone. Eat the meat, spit out the bones. My :2c: Blessings....
OK, so this does seem like a useful discussion...good. I also think scripture's obviously crucial. But then I also agree, doesn't eveyone then have their understanding of what those scriptures mean? Maybe that has to do with us being at different places in our lives, so therefor at different levels of revelation :dontknow:. For instance, one guy can use a passage of scripture to prove his point, then I use some of the same scriptures to prove my point..but OOPS! Guess what? They're two different points :mshock:.
It's interesting what you say
Martin about scripture...because I think I know what you're talking about wrt lack of scripture, getting off into New Age stuff. BUT....OK, this is ME...but I think what bugs me just as much or more is when someone does use scripture left and right, but then it becomes obvious that they're (we're) putting our own slant on it, our own level of understanding, and THEN present it as the absolute truth, not as an understanding or opinion, but as the final authority, the old "and that's the way it is, bub". Hey, I've done it, the old self-righteous "I'm right and I'll choke it into you" routine. And again, maybe most of all this is for me, God working me through and out of some things. You remember what God told David, and He has said it to me before too..."you are tne man".
Paul said, "Just listen to a Christian radio station for a day and try to contemplate the views of each pastor to determine if any one of them is correct. You'll go crazy." And ain't that the truth?
Good outlook
Card...I think God's working on me to both spit out the bones, and don't choke the other guy either :bigGrin:.
I really like your post James...(not me, Reformer :laughing7:...no I'm not talking to myself..at least not right now). Anyway, that very well may be part of it, the medium as you say...I think for me, there was a time when I stated my opinion/understanding, and just moved on. Then there are times I get up to my eyeballs in doctrinal struggles. Now I'm sort of sick of that and just sort of backing off into a quieter place, going back to some of my "starting points/stable places"...actually, right now, not so quiet, as I :blahgreen: :blah: :blahgreen:. Anyway, this issue is mine...I know my buttons get pushed by what I perceive as self-proclaimed authorities that see it as their mission to volunteer to teach me (or others). I really benefit from what others say when presented in a gentle spirit as EVERYONE in this thread has done tonight. But when I'm approached with a superior, know-it-all assumption of "this is the way it is", "X,Y,Z is wrong about how you're looking at it", etc., then again, "I am the man" who becomes guilty, because I want to say "take a flying leap"...not so holy...I need to work on that. OK, I've confessed.
It's getting harder and harder for me to argue about anything. Either the Holy Spirit has to really be pumping me into it on an individual basis where there's danger in someone's life if they don't grasp a certain something (which is pretty rare), or I'm getting to where I sorta just leave it alone. If something was all of that important and I wasn't particularly anointed at the time with the balls to really be in someone's face about it, then God has a much harder lesson for that person to learn than I could ever convey to them in something totally conclusive about an individual point of doctrine.
To me, this doesn't negate the importance of being a witness to the basic truths about the Cross of Christ and His Blood taking away the sin of the world and making peace, the necessity of love, faith, repentance, and proving one's love and repentance by one's deeds, and the importance of sanctification as we anticipate His soon return to judge the living and the dead. But, I generally agree with the early Church Fathers about the doctrine of reserve. I just wish that they hadn't squashed UR in particular with it.
But there's a lot of really really important stuff from the Scriptures that 99% of believers can't hear and it's just the unnecessary drain and expenditure of energy to spend a lot of resources on making things available that some people would pretend to really want to know but would never have any intent of obeying. That would put people in the position of burying their talent that you'd be handing them. I just try to share with folks the milk of the Word and not worry about getting them past that. Until people receive the Written Word as the Word, there's not a lot the Holy Spirit can do with them anyway, as far as bringing them into conformity with the image of Christ Jesus in this life.
I've known people that have thought that if I really believed such and such, then I'd of been a whole lot pushier with them about it. Why? And at what cost if I successfully proved it to their flesh without them being willing to swallow it with their hearts? To think that I'd be pushier if I genuinely thought something was an essential is to be abusive with the truth, to harden the heart of the unbeliever (i.e. unbeliever regarding the particular truth in question), and to engage the intellect at the expense of not winning their hearts. There are certain things that if you're pushy with them, then you damage the seed that you've tried to plant. If it takes root, then it won't produce the fruit that you wanted because of what you had to become in your motives in the planting of it when you tried to drag someone somewhere against their will.
What's the difference between this and the dragging of all men unto Himself? The lifting up out of the earth. Duh! You do have to be careful with the seed that you plant. Better to give folks a half truth that produces a whole harvest rather than to plant a seed that requires way too much at the beginning of the soil's usage. Am I justifying ET in saying this? No, because that's a whole lie rather than a half truth. Many things that we'll experience at these boards, whether they're leading to a full harvesting of righteousness or not, will be simply soil preparation, moisture, wind, and varying degrees of sunlight. You get the exact same benefit from eating your greens as some folks get from getting a lot of steroids.
The difference is the side effects from trying to cram something artificial into your system, or trying to speed up a process too quickly. But elephants and gorillas are incredibly powerful without the steroids, but it's a matter of what they do everyday rather than during a sports season or preseason. Jabcat, are some of your concerns about the board scene wanting the benefit of spiritual steroids rather than simply the grazing on the greens that we should all be eating, until our spiritual bodies are built up one molecule of chlorophyll at a time? Or are you concerned, like I am, about people trying to cram everyone with GMOs?
Martin, I've seen you talk about meat/milk, and also about being delivered from the spirit of arguing/debating.
For me, I think it's multifaceted, so I'll try to boil it down;
so many different doctrines and points of view
...even here...
for instance, I believe UR like nearly everyone here. But, I have some pretty significant disagreements with some in some other areas. A couple of those areas are actually off limits to "discuss":bigGrin:, some not.
So as I think through this, a few bullet points;
Personal level;
state my understanding, explain why, let it go. Let God veil and reveal.
Make sure I'm not tossed to and fro, remember to go back to the strong foundations.
Mod level;
if someone is coming across in a superior/know-it-all manner, remind them to state it more as "in my opinion/as I understand it", rather than "my opinion is your opinion, or at least it needs to be" :laughing7:. Do it according to TM expectations and for the good of all.
1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
3 They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth."
5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. 6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
--Gen 11
Back when I still had some faith in men--yes! there was such a time--I saw this as somewhat capricious and maybe even a little mean on the part of God. Much like, I, as a child, used to knock down the anthill to watch them build it up again.
Why would God do this? Why would he not only knock down their anthill, but make it impossible for them to work together to ever build it again--by confounding language?
Language is meant to communicate, but that is only one of its functions. Communication does not always have to imply that I give you something and you accept all of it. You might take parts of it or none of it. Nor does it necessarily mean that I want to do anything more than reach out to you, one to another. On a more sinister level, I might want to use language as a club to beat you into submission and assure my dominance. Language has many social functions.
Our language has been confounded by God for a reason. I believe that reason is to protect us. Sort of like, you can't fool all of the people all of the time. There will always be those beyond the reach of a demagogue. There will always be those who do the right thing no matter what others say. Just so, it keeps any one man from becoming too powerful or too dangerous.
But there is one language which is universal. It is the language of God. It is understood by everyone the world over. It is the language of love. I've spoken it in many countries of the world, long before I knew God as I do now, and everyone understands it.
God intends for nations to exist. They keep each other in check. They hobble each other. He intends for each of us to grow separately within our own uniqueness. And, when, and if, we come together--it will always be on his terms, not ours.
That is why it was called Babel —because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world.
--Gen 11
:cloud9: Good post Molly. Jab, have you ever thought something was correct in your understanding, even something God given, only to be shown by Him or though someone else down the road, something else? I have been many times.
Did it change your relationship with God when you believed the former, ie. make you any "less saved", "less walking with God", more "guilty" ect.? Me, neither. According to what I KNEW and that by the Spirit, I was walking uprightly with my God. We are only held accountable for what the Spirit shows us and convicts us of. Man can talk all day long (I'm talking scripture here), and even be right in what they are saying, but if the SPIRIT doesn't convict us, we're STILL not accountable.
The Pharisees had it wrong for centuries, but until the Son speaking in the SPIRIT of what He heard His Father speak showed up and convicted them, they were not accountable, not in judgment. The glory of God still resided in the Most Holy Place, in spite of the fact they weren't on the mark on what had been given to them up to that point. It's easy to forget this principle.
I asked Him one day, why I don't feel the need to fight over what I share that He has shown me. I thought there might be something wrong with me (as in, that maybe my zeal had "gone out"). Now that's not to say that I may not continue to share if debated, which could be interpreted as fighting, but what I'm saying is, the SPIRIT of it, the INTENT of it, is just not there. He said, "Because it's not YOUR doctrine."
For that reason, conversely, I have learned to listen carefully to those that kill with the sword, checking to see whose doctrine it really is. But even in that, if you've looking for HIM, He (some aspect of Him) is what will appear, even if the fiery darts coming at you are intended to kill, because by His Spirit He can quench the fire of them and give revelation that cools like rain. It's all about Him; there is nothing else, and He works it all out according to HIS good pleasure. Blessings.....
hi everyone
I want to thank everyone for being a blessing-I feel it is a time where we all need encouragement
I've personally been blasted(not by anyone here ) recently by a religous person and it was nasty.So it is time to just enjoy each other and appreciate what we each have to offer.
Pretty much my only family is here now!...and i sense that others are feeling "a closer walk with the father is being formed"so resting and not arguing is just fine.
I keep telling people"GOD IS GONNA DO, WHAT GOD IS GONNA DO''.So I try to wait patiently as I go through different trials and tribulations(doesn't it seem like they are coming in waves?)
sitting around a campfire would be nice!
anyone interested in organizing one for the summer...bring the kids,could be fun!
blessings fred :icon_king:
:cloud9: Amen, Fred.... :thumbsup:
I'm really expecting God to do something unprecedented for all of us as we continue sharing here and other places on the net, and where ever else we are found witnesses to Him. God has shown me there are already saints ascending in the wind streams, the currents of spirit, from "the 'Hurricane' of Fire" that under various symbols He has made known to many is near. God is at work here.
Expect the Holy Spirit's gracious displays of God's hand in everyplace, including the internet, but specially in the hearts of men that they may be brought into the sheepfold of the Good and Great Shepherd. Empowering to demonstrate and explain the God of all mercy is coming upon those who are faithful to Him. It is an awakening to God that is in progress.
I don't know who first said it, but what I heard years ago has stayed with me, growing in expectation, that stadiums all across this country will be filled round-the-clock with people praying and worshipping Jesus.
:cloud9: That's good reFormer. I know we are in the last days (maybe the last hours?) of the last days. I'm not exalting Benny Hinn here at all (far from it), but I know from personal experience He is using him in ministry. Anyway, one day, several years ago, out of the blue, the Lord spoke to me to turn the TV on TBN. I had no idea why or who was on it, but when I did it was Benny Hinn's show just coming on.
The anointing of the Lord hit me as soon as I heard the music playing on there, and I started sobbing and He said, "The Spirit of Elijah has come and they know him not."
And it was given to me to know that the time was very near because there were exactly 6 months between John the baptist's birth (or unveiling shall we say?) and Jesus's, as they were birthed 6 months apart. Blessings...
Quote from: jabcat on March 24, 2009, 08:55:33 AM
Martin, I've seen you talk about meat/milk, and also about being delivered from the spirit of arguing/debating.
For me, I think it's multifaceted, so I'll try to boil it down;
so many different doctrines and points of view
...even here...
for instance, I believe UR like nearly everyone here. But, I have some pretty significant disagreements with some in some other areas. A couple of those areas are actually off limits to "discuss":bigGrin:, some not.
So as I think through this, a few bullet points;
Personal level;
state my understanding, explain why, let it go. Let God veil and reveal.
Make sure I'm not tossed to and fro, remember to go back to the strong foundations.
Mod level;
if someone is coming across in a superior/know-it-all manner, remind them to state it more as "in my opinion/as I understand it", rather than "my opinion is your opinion, or at least it needs to be" :laughing7:. Do it according to TM expectations and for the good of all.
Hi jabcat,
I liked your posts. Sometimes I think we are related, at times we think a like. I try and I say try, to never come across as knowing more than any one else about any subject. I honestly feel I know very little about anything. You mentioned everyone having different points of views on subjects. Just think if everyone believed the exact same things, no one would ever grow in knowledge. Paul said to "grow in grace and knowledge". I was thinking this morning how we do this? Our minds are changed on a view that we previously had. We have to hear or read something that someone else said in order to do this, I think? I have learned a lot from these forums. I try to read different articles written by different people. I have found that no one has all the truth but everyone has some of the truth.
I believe, and I could be wrong. :laughing7: God has given everyone a certain amount of his truth. The truth is kind of like a puzzle that someone else mentioned. All of the pieces are scattered about, we just have to gather them all together and put them in place to get the whole picture. Some pieces are bigger than others and some have a hard time placing them in the right place but God in his own time will allow us to see the whole picture. As you say, now we see through a glass darkly. A piece here and a piece there will eventually make up the whole puzzle. Don't know when this will be but like reFORMer said I have this gut feeling something big is on the horizon.
CHB
:gthumbsup: :mthumbsup: sista!
Great thread, and yes God brought the fall of Babylon for good purpose, thanks for your message in this thread Molly regarding Babylon and what has been revealed to you.
I am not ignoring you Jabcat, I have enjoyed and received many helpful points from the threads and replies you have posted, and yes we do have seasons during our journey through this world to just be quiet and rest in the Lord, I am not politicaly correct and am not going to pretend I am correct to the letter when it comes to scripture so I don't know what verse it is where it says "Be still and know that I am God" also another verse "he leads us by still waters" then there is John 21:22 that speaks to me about this as well that if God wills that a man tarry for a season until he comes what is that to me?, all of these point to rest in him IMHO, I think we all need a resting in him alone season just as sure as we have need of sleep and rest in the natural life from our labors, our fellowman and the system of this world to just Tarry a time in a certain places with him alone until he calls us to move on from there.
Peace,
Fire Walker
Quote from: fire walker on March 31, 2009, 12:14:20 AM
Great thread, and yes God brought the fall of Babylon for good purpose, thanks for your message in this thread Molly regarding Babylon and what has been revealed to you.
I am not ignoring you Jabcat, I have enjoyed and received many helpful points from the threads and replies you have posted, and yes we do have seasons during our journey through this world to just be quiet and rest in the Lord, I am not politicaly correct and am not going to pretend I am correct to the letter when it comes to scripture so I don't know what verse it is where it says "Be still and know that I am God" also another verse "he leads us by still waters" then there is John 21:22 that speaks to me about this as well that if God wills that a man tarry for a season until he comes what is that to me?, all of these point to rest in him IMHO, I think we all need a resting in him alone season just as sure as we have need of sleep and rest in the natural life from our labors, our fellowman and the system of this world to just Tarry a time in a certain places with him alone until he calls us to move on from there.
Peace,
Fire Walker
Amen...yes, be still and know...Him.
Quote from: martincisneros on March 24, 2009, 06:31:00 AM
The bigger arguments around here have happened with the folks with the least Scripture to share about anything you can think of.
:laughing7: I have seen the opposite far more often.
Quote from: martincisneros on March 24, 2009, 06:31:00 AM
Perhaps it depends on your definition of teaching 'cause I don't regard anything as teaching that doesn't have some Scripture with it.
Really???? If God teaches us in so many different ways OUTSIDE of the bible... why don't you think human beings can then pass those same teachings to other human beings??
Lessons and parables ABOUND all around us... we just need to open our eyes and SEE.
Scripture ain't the only thing...
Well, just my :2c:, I know you feel differently and that is fine.
I just had to express my opinion.
peace.