The Revelation

[micah7:9]

Revelation=G602  apokalupsis : disclousure..- appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation
Apocalypse= 1) any of various Jewish and Christian pseudonymous writings (200 B.C.-c. A.D. 300) depicting symbolically the ultimate of evil and triumph of good. 2) a disclosure regarded as prophetic; revelation. (New World Dict.)

I can only speak of myself and how I have been given to understand, thus it is but opinion. Today, as the dictionary expresses to most people, it is the end of the world represented by terrifying special effects. [A lie told long enough......]

For me the Book is the Revealing of Jesus Christ in me, my walk now. Yes I believe that there may be literal prophecy for the world, but Rev.19:10 "...for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." The testimony(evidence or witness) of Jesus is the SPIRIT(breath/wind) of prophecy(prediction-foretelling).
For me I do not receive the words as from prophets, but a prediction a fore telling spiritually, of what I must see in my walk, the spirit in working in me, as it should in each of us. Jesus began speaking in Gen. 1 and ceased speaking in Rev. 22. As far as the Bible I read, most certainly He is still speaking today. Rev 1:8  `I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming--the Almighty.'

I believe I am to understand first the natural, regarding myself and my history as the old man and the new creature(I do not receive the natural as "literal," but the earthy, the sentient) then the spiritual. John was in the Spirit... Rev 1:12  And I turned to see the voice that spake with me .......John saw the voice. (Gen.3:8)

I have read some of WW's work and I believe there are many positive points he brings up regarding the Hebrew wedding, I say that because rituals certainly mean something in the whole of things and there is much ritual in the OT. I just believe that the uncovering-disclosure of Jesus Christ is to reveal the work being done in each single believer as the Spirit teaches from what is gleaned from Word's that Jesus spoke, and I go back to a verse that causes me to keep on seeking the prize, Joh 6:63  It is the spirit which gives Life. The flesh(human nature) confers no benefit whatever. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and are Life.

[dajomaco]

The book of Revelations seems to be talking about a lot of people.

There are the things that happen to the people that go to this church
There are the things that happen to the people that go to That church.

Millions that are dead millions that are alive.
A third of the earth here and a third of the earth there.

Some people read revelations and believe that they must tell the
millions or billions what is going to happen.
( Four blood Moons , The late great planet earth. Ect)

In past readings the book of revelations would get me very excited .
But that excitement was about what was happening out side of me.
I now get excited about things happening inside me.

[Tom]

That first definition with the word "pseudonymous" reminds me of what I kept hearing in the New Testament classes I audited online. It seems to be the common belief among many modern "scholars" who have been persuaded by the modern school of textual criticism, but I think their opinions should not be considered fact. I think their reasons for saying so can be attributed to other things like doctrine that develops over time and different scribes. I think the book of "The Unveiling Of Jesus Christ [Revelation]" is a source of continuous speculation due to the figurative language used in it. Some folks think it's all figurative while some folks think it's more literal. I see folks on this forum interpreting a lot of other scripture figuratively too. I tend to interpret scripture mostly literally except where it's obviously figurative, but I don't put down anybody's interpretation of scripture because I think holy spirit reveals truth to us all uniquely. I'm not as interested in Revelation as much as it seems some folks are, but I understand the interest. I just think it's important to keep in mind that, despite the fact that it's at the end of your Bible, folks should realize, as mentioned earlier in another thread, that it's not the end of the story.

[rosered]

The book of Revelations seems to be talking about a lot of people.

There are the things that happen to the people that go to this church
There are the things that happen to the people that go to That church.

Millions that are dead millions that are alive.
A third of the earth here and a third of the earth there.

Some people read revelations and believe that they must tell the
millions or billions what is going to happen.
( Four blood Moons , The late great planet earth. Ect)

In past readings the book of revelations would get me very excited .
But that excitement was about what was happening out side of me.
I now get excited about things happening inside me.

:thumbsup:

  me too  bro Daj    and desire this   for everyone  to be ONE  SPIRIT  IN CHRIST  !!  and KNOW THAT GOD WILL NOT FAIL HIS GLORIOUS PLAN   !!!

[dajomaco]

That first definition with the word "pseudonymous" reminds me of what I kept hearing in the New Testament classes I audited online. It seems to be the common belief among many modern "scholars" who have been persuaded by the modern school of textual criticism, but I think their opinions should not be considered fact. I think their reasons for saying so can be attributed to other things like doctrine that develops over time and different scribes. I think the book of "The Unveiling Of Jesus Christ [Revelation]" is a source of continuous speculation due to the figurative language used in it. Some folks think it's all figurative while some folks think it's more literal. I see folks on this forum interpreting a lot of other scripture figuratively too. I tend to interpret scripture mostly literally except where it's obviously figurative, but I don't put down anybody's interpretation of scripture because I think holy spirit reveals truth to us all uniquely. I'm not as interested in Revelation as much as it seems some folks are, but I understand the interest. I just think it's important to keep in mind that, despite the fact that it's at the end of your Bible[/b], folks should realize, as mentioned earlier in another thread, that it's not the end of the story.

:iagree:

[WhiteWings]

For me the Book is the Revealing of Jesus Christ in me, my walk now.

Revelation goes by quite a few name but considering the contents of the book for "The unveiling of Jesus Christ" is the most correct one.
Less confusing would be by because Jesus Himself isn't unveiled. Jesus unveils all sorts of information about Father's plan but primary He's unveiling His bride. (elect)

[micah7:9]

For me the Book is the Revealing of Jesus Christ in me, my walk now.

Revelation goes by quite a few name but considering the contents of the book for "The unveiling of Jesus Christ" is the most correct one.
Less confusing would be by because Jesus Himself isn't unveiled. Jesus unveils all sorts of information about Father's plan but primary He's unveiling His bride. (elect)

:dsunny:

[Shev]

Fantastic posts, everyone! Revelation is certainly a fascinating book, and even the title seems to have so many layers to it.

Ἀποκάλυψις - Apokalupsis, is a compound composing of "apo" (away from), and "kalupto" (to cover, hide or conceal). So it has the effect of something being taken away to reveal or disclose something else. The beauty of this is that it works on different levels, whether what WW said about the veil and the bride, or the glory of God being seen through our torn flesh as we are chastised and refined into His likeness.

It is interesting to look at other instances of both words, to see how they might tie in to revelation:

Οὐδεὶς δὲ λύχνον ἅψας καλύπτει αὐτὸν σκεύει ἢ ὑποκάτω κλίνης τίθησιν, ἀλλ' ἐπὶ λυχνίας τίθησιν, ἵνα οἱ εἰσπορευόμενοι βλέπωσιν τὸ φῶς.
(No-one lights a lamp and covers it with a vessel or places it under a bed, but places it on a lampstand, so that those who come in may see the light - Luke 8:16)

Μὴ οὖν φοβηθῆτε αὐτούς· οὐδὲν γάρ ἐστιν κεκαλυμμένον ὃ οὐκ ἀποκαλυφθήσεται καὶ κρυπτὸν ὃ οὐ γνωσθήσεται
(So do not fear them - for there is nothing covered/concealed that shall not be uncovered/revealed and hidden that will not be made known - Matthew 10:26)

Λογίζομαι γὰρ ὅτι οὐκ ἄξια τὰ παθήματα τοῦ νῦν καιροῦ πρὸς τὴν μέλλουσαν δόξαν ἀποκαλυφθῆναι εἰς ἡμᾶς. 19ἡ γὰρ ἀποκαραδοκία τῆς κτίσεως τὴν ἀποκάλυψιν τῶν υἱῶν τοῦ θεοῦ ἀπεκδέχεται.
(For I reckon that the sufferings of the present time are not worthy (of comparison) of the glory that shall be revealed in us. For the eager anticipation of the creation is for the revelation/disclosing/uncovering of the sons of God Romans 8:18-19)

Ὅτε δὲ εὐδόκησεν [ὁ θεὸς] ὁ ἀφορίσας με ἐκ κοιλίας μητρός μου καὶ καλέσας διὰ τῆς χάριτος αὐτοῦ 16ἀποκαλύψαι τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ ἐν ἐμοί...
(But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called through His grace, to reveal His Son in me - Galatians 1:15-16)

ἵνα τὸ δοκίμιον ὑμῶν τῆς πίστεως πολυτιμότερον χρυσίου τοῦ ἀπολλυμένου, διὰ πυρὸς δὲ δοκιμαζομένου εὑρεθῇ εἰς ἔπαινον καὶ δόξαν καὶ τιμὴν ἐν ἀποκαλύψει Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ
(That the testing of your faith, more precious than gold which is destroyed, though being tried by fire, may be found to praise and glory and preciousness in the revelation/disclosure/uncovering of Jesus Christ - 1 Peter 1:7)

ἀλλὰ καθὸ κοινωνεῖτε τοῖς τοῦ Χριστοῦ παθήμασιν, χαίρετε, ἵνα καὶ ἐν τῇ ἀποκαλύψει τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ χαρῆτε ἀγαλλιώμενοι.
(but as you have fellowship with Christ's sufferings, rejoice, so that in the revelation/uncovering/disclosure of His glory you may rejoice exceedingly - 1 Peter 4:13)

Even from this very abbreviated list, it is readily apparent that Christ is revealed in us, shall yet be revealed in greater manifestations both personally and universally, and shall be revealed in great glory, which we share in even as we share in His Spirit within. It is furthermore evident that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be even compared to that glory to come (not even in the same ballpark!), and that though Christ has placed this light in us in a way that sometimes seems hidden, it is not to be concealed forever, as every hidden thing shall be brought to full disclosure, and that glorious Spirit which causes such wondrous yearnings and groanings within us, shall yet raise us up in the full might of His glory after we have suffered a little while.

This great process of revelation, as Jesus Christ is seen more and more through our flesh, which is being torn and burned away by judgment, is for me the great theme of the book of the same name. This book was once an austere and troubling book for me, full of mystery and strange scenes, but though I am still far from full revelation, it has become a book of great joy!

Again, I like WW's point about the bride, and there is an interesting dynamic involved, as the veil which veils the bride also keeps her from seeing the groom clearly, and therefore keeps the groom from being revealed in her clearly as of yet. But we know that this changes day by day, as the glorious passage in 2 Corinthians 3 declares:

Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech—  13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.  14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.  15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.  16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.  17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.  18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord. (2 Corinthians 3:12-18)

[eaglesway]

IMO, the revelation of Jesus Christ given to John was an unveiling of the mystery of the gospel "Christ in you, the hope of glory", unveiling Christ to us, and unveiling Christ manifesting in us incorporating the revelation of Himself as Head over all things to the church, His body, the fulness of Him who fills all in all and spiritual analogues(pictures, visually encoded presentations of how that manifests in the age in which we are living including glimpses the ages beyond this one. The benefit of it is to those who listeen- "hear what the Spirit is saying", to those who see - "Behold, I am renewing all things"; to those who thirst- "Come Drink freely of the water of life."

[rosered]

Amen I agree also   How does Jesus Christ come   revealing   Gods plan  of the ages ?
  I know  many do not believe me, or maybe its understand me , when I say this ,
 
But every last one of has a man of sin  in them   that better fear God /the devils do know and tremble]
We have a nature that does not love  God first nor their  brother as themselves , for me this has always been the Spiritual brother in them , to deny the Christ  anointed one in them    , the least you have done unto them little ones you have done unto me   

For me this was the babes in Christ     , and that applies also to the one in you as with others     

  this was  why Jesus said clean the inside of the cup first   [Matt 23 , luke 11]    and the  parable of the strong man of the house   [Matt 12] 
  you cannot begin to love outside     yourself , if you do not  love God nor yourself       in the Spiritual sense      of the meaning  the Christ in you and hope of  glory  ,   you will never love anyone   , they all  are looking to see   by the way you live   that you belong to Jesus Christ

   when they warn   those    as lovers of themselves they meant hypocrites


  and the man of sin    exposed Let no one in any way deceive you, for it
will not come unless the apostasy comes first,
and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son
of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself
above every so-called god or object of worship,
so that he takes his seat in the temple of God,[you are the temple of the Living God ] 
displaying himself as being God.    [God will judge  as you judge]
2 Thessalonians 2: 3,4


  just play acting       hypocrite

Strong's Concordance
hupokrités: one who answers, an actor, a hypocrite
Original Word: ὑποκριτής, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hupokrités
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-ok-ree-tace')
Short Definition: a hypocrite, dissembler
Definition: (lit: a stage-player), a hypocrite, dissembler, pretender.
HELPS Word-studies
5273 hypokritḗs (a masculine noun derived from 5259 /hypó, "under" and 2919 /krínō, "judge") – properly, a judging under, like a performer acting under a mask (i.e. a theater-actor); (figuratively) a two-faced person; a "hypocrite," whose profession does not match their practice – i.e. someone who "says one thing but does another."

[5273 (hypokritḗs) was commonly used of actors on the Greek stage. When applied in the NT, it refers to a hypocrite.

"Christianity requires that believers should be open and above-board. They should be themselves. Their lives should be like an open book, easily read" (K. Wuest, Word Studies, Vol 2, Pastoral Epistles, 1 Peter, 50,51).]

   This is one reason  why I believe and this is just my opinion   , we suffer     tribulation     to  see what we are made of      ,  no one knows how they will react to     vexation      until they are under the pressure of it   
we can say all we want  , but it   is how  we live though it  that proves   who we are in Christ   or   that man of sin is revealed as the hidden man of the heart   IMO
     this makes us aware or  awakened to righteousness   

  this tribulation Paul was describing here      and we know He was sowing the seeds of righteousness/Christ /Word   as Apollos watered  them  and waiting on the  7th  trumpet to blast   but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets." (Rev 10:7)         7 times they marched around the city till the walls com tumbling down of Babylon to me ]   just as it did  for Joshua's time when Elijah told his servant to climb to the top of Mt. Carmel and "look toward the sea" for the prophesied rain. "There is nothing" he responded six straight times! Finally, on the seventh time, he saw a cloud as small as a man's hand and the rain soon followed. 1 Kings 18)  we would see Jesus/Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. !

in  1 Corth15 
30 And what about us? Why do we put ourselves in danger every hour? 31 I ·die [face death] every day. ·That is true, brothers and sisters, just as it is true that I brag about you [L (I swear) by my boasting in you, brothers (and sisters), which I have] in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32 If I fought wild animals in Ephesus [C probably a metaphor for human opponents, though possibly beasts in the arena (Acts 19; 2 Cor. 1:8–11; 2 Tim. 4:16–18)] ·only with human hopes [or from a human point of view; L according to man], I have gained nothing. If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, because tomorrow we will die [Is. 22:13; 56:12]."

33 Do not be ·fooled [deceived; misled]: "Bad ·friends [company] will ruin good ·habits [or character; morals; C a quote from the Greek poet Menander (c. 342–291 bc)]." 34 ·Come back to your right way of thinking [Come to your senses; or Sober up as you should] and stop sinning. Some of you ·do not know [or are ignorant about] God—I say this to shame you.

What Kind of Body Will We Have?
35 But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? What kind of body will they have?"

36 Foolish person! When you sow a seed, it must die in the ground before it can ·live and grow [come to life].


37 And when you sow it, it does not have the same "body" it will have later. [L But; On the contrary] What you sow is only a bare seed, maybe wheat or something else.

38 But God gives it a body that he ·has planned [wants; has chosen] for it, and God gives each kind of seed its own body.

39 All things made of flesh are not the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds have another, and fish have another.

40 Also there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the ·beauty [splendor; glory] of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the ·beauty [splendor; glory] of the earthly bodies is another.

41 The sun has one kind of ·beauty [splendor; glory], the moon has another ·beauty [splendor; glory], and the stars have another. And each star is different in its ·beauty [splendor; glory].

42 It is the same with the dead who are raised to life. ·The body that is "planted" will ruin and decay [L It is sown/buried in corruption], but it is raised ·to a life that cannot be destroyed [imperishable; L in incorruption].

43 ·When the body is "planted," it is without honor [L It is sown/buried in dishonor], but it is raised in glory. ·When the body is "planted," it is weak [L It is sown/buried in weakness], but ·when it is raised, it is powerful [L it is raised in power].

44 ·The body that is "planted" is a physical body [L It is sown/buried a natural/physical/soulish body]. ·When it is raised, it is [L It is raised] a spiritual body.

There is a ·physical [natural; soulish] body, and there is also a spiritual body.


45 [L So also] It is written in the Scriptures: "The first man, Adam, became a living ·person [soul; Gen. 2:7]." But the last Adam [C Christ] became a spirit that gives life. 46 [L But] The spiritual did not come first, but the ·physical [natural; soulish] and then the spiritual.

47 The first man came from the dust of the earth. The second man came from heaven.

48 People who ·belong to the earth [or are of dust] are like the first man of ·earth [dust]. But those people who belong to heaven are like the man of heaven. 49 Just as we ·were made like [L have borne the image of] the man of earth, so we will[a] also ·be made like [bear the image of] the man of heaven.

50 I tell you this, brothers and sisters: Flesh and blood cannot ·have a part in [inherit] the kingdom of God. ·Something that will ruin cannot [...nor can the perishable/corruptible] ·have a part in something that never ruins [inherit the imperishable/incorruptible].

51 But look! I tell you ·this secret [a mystery; 2:1]: We will not all ·sleep in death [L sleep; C a euphemism for death], but we will all be changed. 52 It will ·take only a second [happen in a flash]—as quickly as an eye ·blinks [or twinkles]—when the last trumpet sounds. The trumpet will sound, and those who have died will be raised ·to live forever [imperishable; incorruptible], and we will be changed [1 Thess. 4:13–17].

53 [L For] This body that ·can be destroyed [is perishable/corruptible] must clothe itself with ·something that can never be destroyed [the imperishable/incorruptible]. And this ·body that dies [L mortal] must clothe itself with ·something that can never die [immortality].

54 So when this body that ·can be destroyed [is perishable/corruptible] will clothe itself with that which ·can never be destroyed [is imperishable/incorruptible], and this ·body that dies [L mortal] will clothe itself with ·that which can never die [immortality], then this Scripture will ·be made true [come to pass]:

"Death is ·destroyed forever [L swallowed up] in victory [Is. 25:8]."
55 "[L O] Death, where is your victory?
    Death, where is your ·pain [L sting; Hos. 13:14]?"
56 Death's ·power to hurt [L sting] is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But we thank God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 So my ·dear [beloved] brothers and sisters, stand strong. Do not let anything move you. Always ·give yourselves fully to [excel in] the work of the Lord, because you know that your work in the Lord is ·never wasted [not useless/in vain].

I believe  what was planted in the corruptible  bodies   will rise  in Christ  , some believe its when you die literally  other say   its still way off      and some believe its when the old   man of sin is done away with in Christ     the newness of  life in Christ begins

2CORTH  3 But they were blinded in their understanding; for until today whenever the Old Testament is read, that veil remains over them, and it is not revealed that it is being abolished by The Messiah.


I agree with WW the old is   how we will understand Revelations in '' the Spirit of prophecy'' in Jesus CHRIST  testimony /witness   

[dajomaco]

 and the man of sin    exposed Let no one in any way deceive you, for it
will not come unless the apostasy comes first,
and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son
of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself
above every so-called god or object of worship,
so that he takes his seat in the temple of God,[you are the temple of the Living God ] 
displaying himself as being God.    [God will judge  as you judge]
2 Thessalonians 2: 3,4

:dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:

[rosered]

and the man of sin    exposed Let no one in any way deceive you, for it
will not come unless the apostasy comes first,
and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son
of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself
above every so-called god or object of worship,
so that he takes his seat in the temple of God,[you are the temple of the Living God ] 
displaying himself as being God.    [God will judge  as you judge]
2 Thessalonians 2: 3,4

:dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:

   Jesus   sits on the throne of our hearts ruling and reigning as King of His rightful place in our hearts and we are His possession   

Matt 5
a city set on a Hill [ruler ] that cannot be hid  for the Light has come   , you are the Light of the World     the Light has come  to us  and no longer sitting  in darkness      :dsunny:  the strong man of the House !!    it cannot be broken into any longer   for greater is He who is in you  than in the world!! 


Proverbs 4:18
But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.[Matt 5   be perfect  as He is perfect complete in Christ]

John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 9:5
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.     

John 12:36
While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

Philippians 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Revelation 1:20
The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in my right hand  POWER !!, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which YOU SAW  are the seven churches.

Revelation 2:5
Remember therefore from where you have fallen , and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place   

Jesus comes quickly !!