end Times

[Ben]

Hi Gang,
Being new here I have a question about end times if that's not a problem. What do Universalists believe about the end times? Are Universalists full or partial preterists? Can someone recommend a good source that explains what Universalists believe about the end times? I haven't found material on the Tentmaker site dealing with the end times but I could be overlooking it. Any help and insights would be greatly appreciated.

Peace,   Ben

[jabcat]

Hi Ben.  If everyone on here were to post on this topic, you'd get a wide range of beliefs, and mixtures of points of view.  Some full preterist, some partial, some futurist, some a mix.  I personally am partial preterist with some "now" and some future.

Some believe the next age will be the "manifestation of the sons of God", i.e., Jesus fully revealing Himself in a company of believers that will be used to bring salvation to all and bring about the next age and God's total redemption/restoration.  Some believe that Jesus will not "literally" be present.

Some believe Jesus will return in a literal manner, in His glorified body, a view that I personally have not completely dismissed.  I personally have run across this scripture lately, that I'm not sure can be fully explained by the POV that we'll just transition into an age of "super saints" where all is fully restored without Jesus' direct presence - with Him "only" present and obvious in believers -  Again, I personally believe it will be a mix of the 2 views.  That the redeemed will be active, ruling, and reigning, but also that Jesus will be obviously, directly present - and it will be an obvious, miraculous event.

"Know this first of all there will definitely come during the last days [from then until the end of this age] mockers who are going to go along according to their own desires, and say, "Where is His promised Presence?  Ever since our forefathers fell asleep, everything is continuing just like it has from the beginning of creation."  For they want to let this escape their notice, that by God's Word there existed old heavens and earth [the first ones, the ones of the first age], and that that earth was standing together [there were no oceans] up out of water [below the surface] and with water [above in the sky];  by means of these the world that existed then, was flooded by water and destroyed.  Yet by the same Word the current heavens and earth [the second ones, the ones of the second age] are being stored up for Fire, kept for Judgment Day and Destruction..."  2 Peter 3:3-7 The Christian Bible.

Sounds more like an "event" to me...water, and next fire...but I'm still open and searching out specific details to many things.  I tend to not take one person's opinion, just because that's what they think it's going to be like...I believe there's still a lot to search out in the scriptures.

Blessings, James.

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

Ben, the best I  have ever found is the following at tentmaker site.

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Looking/Looking1.htm

an in depth study in end times.

[Beloved Servant]

Hi Ben,
The very thought that the Word of God has been put upon with a particular nomenclature as Universalists is disturbing and a false attempt by the serpent to pervert the Truth into a doctrine that can be abused and detour those that seek the heart of God.
That term will never sit on the Throne of Truth Whose Name is Jesus.

Mark 8:27-30 (King James Version)

27; And Jesus went out, and his disciples, into the towns of Caesarea Philippi: and by the way he asked his disciples, saying unto them, Whom do men say that I am?

28; And they answered, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others, One of the prophets.

29; And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.

30; And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.

Run away from any man-made, man-tagged doctrines.
The only way to the Father is through the Son with a devoted life of crucified submission to His will.

[Beloved Servant]

Out of the whole only 2 made it.
Joshua and Caleb.
Salvation Forced.
Press in saints!
He has given us the land.
This race can be won!

[CHB]

Hi Ben,

According to his above post I see these things pretty much the same as jabcat does. I think a lot of things have been fulfilled but there are things yet to happen. I cannot vision the world continuing as it is with no end of things as we know them in site.

CHB

[chuckt]

 Universalists have a wide range of beliefs as any.

being a  Universalist  does not ""save"" any.

being a  Universalist  does not give one a corner on truth......

[micah7:9]

I personaly have found no mention of "the end times," in the Book. Last times, yes, last days, yes.
But I believe "the end times" would be something very different than the two mentioned.
Rev 1:8  `I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming--the Almighty.'

[firstborn888]

There is a definite preterist leaning in UR circles. I can say that from being around them for 53 years (from birth). Yet - since we have no UR creed book ...

[jabcat]

So now , little children, you must be continually staying in union with Him, so that when he appears [at the beginning of the Last Age], we might have boldness and not be put to shame by Him at His Presence!  ...  Dearly loved ones, we are now chidren [ones born] of God, and it hasn't yet been made apparent what we will be...when it is made apparent, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.  I Jn. 2,3

[Beloved Servant]

Now we all, with uncovered face, mirroring the Lord's glory, are being transformed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as from the Lord, the spirit.

[Nathan]

I beleive it is true that we "are" in the last days.  I beleive the days mentioned are connected to the 7-days of creation principles.  When Jesus stated "tear this temple down (which he was referring to his own crucifixion) and in three days I will raise it up  . . ." that happened literally three days later with his resurrection, but I also see the three days as prophetically speaking to Peter's reference from Psalms where he states to God a day is as a thousand years . . .  Jesus stated that 3-day promise 2 thousand years ago, or two days.  The day we are seeing the dawning of is the 3rd day of the three. 

Which is then to say that this is the last of the last days.

[Beloved Servant]

    32 When Elisha arrived in the house, the child was dead and laid upon his bed.

    33 So he went in, shut the door on the two of them, and prayed to the Lord.

    34 He went up and lay on the child, put his mouth on his mouth, his eyes on his eyes, and his hands on his hands. And as he stretched himself on him and embraced him, the child's flesh became warm.

    35 Then he returned and walked in the house to and fro and went up again and stretched himself upon him. And the child sneezed seven times, and then opened his eyes.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I believe we are BECOMING the last day, ie. no part darkness, as we are changed from glory (terrestrial/flesh) to glory (celestial/Spirit). Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

Amen, Card.


17 For He got from God, the Father, the honor and glory of the voice, being carried to Him in such a way by the Glory Magnifical: "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight!"
18 And this voice we hear being carried out of heaven, being together with Him in the holy mountain.
19 And we are having the prophetic word more confirmed, which you, doing ideally, are heeding (as to a lamp appearing in a dingy place, till the day should be breaking and the morning star should be rising) in your hearts

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

There is a definite preterist leaning in UR circles. I can say that from being around them for 53 years (from birth). Yet - since we have no UR creed book ...

If you have lived around the UR,s for 53 years then you should be very familiar with Andrew Jake's "Restitution Of All Things"  That book is as close as it comes to a creed. All Will Be IN God [restored] at some point....

[micah7:9]

I am more aware of J. Preston Eby's The Restitution of All Things and The Law of Circularity by both Eby and Prinzing.

[WhiteWings]

http://www.tlchrist.info/filejuke.htm

Works of Andrew Jukes and others.

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

I am more aware of J. Preston Eby's The Restitution of All Things and The Law of Circularity by both Eby and Prinzing.

Restitution of all things IS by Andrew Jukes Written many years before Eby or Prizing was born. ( published March 1867 )

and can be obtained through Concordant Publishing Concern
15570 Knochaven Rd.
Santa Clarita, CA 91387, U.S.A.
661-252-2112
www.concordant.org

[Beloved Servant]

Dear, dear Novus,
That is just the name of a chapter of one of Bro. Preston's works:
The "Saviour of the World" series
by J. Preston Eby
chapter: THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS

Psalm 46:10 (Amplified Bible)
Let be and be still, and know (recognize and understand) that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations! I will be exalted in the earth!

[Pierac]

Hi Gang,
Being new here I have a question about end times if that's not a problem. What do Universalists believe about the end times? Are Universalists full or partial preterists? Can someone recommend a good source that explains what Universalists believe about the end times? I haven't found material on the Tentmaker site dealing with the end times but I could be overlooking it. Any help and insights would be greatly appreciated.

Peace,   Ben

Ahh yes, the end times! Many have been sucked into this trap!!  Let just review Peter and Paul! Yep, John paid the price too, but I have limited space!

One must pay attention to the historical context. For example 2nd Peter differs so much from 1st Peter that...  some scholars can't believe they were written by the same person. Why? because there was a historical and fundamental shift in Peter's understanding of the timing of Jesus' return.  In his first epistle he informs his readers that these are "the last times" (1 Peter 1:20) and that "the end of all things is at hand" (1 Peter 4:7). He spoke of "the fiery trial which is to try you" (1 Peter 4:12) and that "the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God" (verse 17). Now notice the drastic change in Peter's second epistle...

What happened was a change in prophetic understanding regarding the time when the Second Advent would actually come to pass. Peter then referred to "the last days" as being in the future and that there would be people complaining that Christ has delayed His coming. "Where is the promise of His coming," they will be saying (2 Peter 3:4).

Peter even had to explain why the expected Second Advent in the 1st century did not materialize.
"Beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his coming."  2 Peter 3:8–9

Same author but now with different and/or mature understanding! We see the same with Paul...

Paul expected that all the prophecies of the Old Testament would be fulfilled upon that generation — "upon whom the ends of the age are come" (1 Corinthians 10:11).

The apostle Paul in all his epistles written before 63 C.E. spoke about the imminence of all end-time prophetic events and that many of his readers would be alive to observe the second advent (1 Corinthians 15:51–52; 1 Thessalonians 4:15–17). Paul's early beliefs were solidly anchored in the conviction that "the time is short ... the fashion of this world passes away" (1 Corinthians 7:29, 31). He even discouraged people from getting married. 1 Corinthians 7:2–32

"Now is it high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we first believed, the night is far spent, and the day is at hand." Romans 13:11–12

Now notice the change... In First Timothy he even began to encourage widows to get married and bear children (1 Timothy 5:14). This is quite the reverse of what he recommended in 1 Corinthians 7:25–35 when he expected the soon appearing of the prophesied events to precede the Second Advent.

He also instructed Timothy in a non-crisis way about the manner of selecting elders and deacons for future periods (1 Timothy 3:1). He commanded him to ordain no one suddenly (1 Timothy 5:22) but to take time to test any person wishing to be an elder (1 Timothy 3:10).  All of these instructions clearly show that there was no longer any urgency!

Paul continued this theme in his second letter to Timothy (about 66/67 C.E.).  "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come" (2 Timothy 3:1) and in the future evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse (2 Timothy 3:13). "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine" (2 Timothy 4:3). Paul was also assured that he would not be alive at the Second Advent. "Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous, will give me at that day" (2 Timothy 4:8).

Much the same is found in Paul's letter to Titus (written near 63 C.E.). He instructed Titus to ordain elders in the cities of Crete so that the congregation might continue to grow and receive the true doctrines of Christ (Titus 1:5–9). There was no appeal to Titus, or the people of Crete, to prepare for the immediate end as was evident in most of the epistles of Paul up to 63 C.E.

Mark 13:32 "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

Yes indeed,  many have assumed to know that day or hour! Yet, our scriptures have shown us it will not be known... Even by the Son or his disciples!

Paul

[WhiteWings]

Mark 13:32 "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

Yes indeed,  many have assumed to know that day or hour! Yet, our scriptures have shown us it will not be known... Even by the Son or his disciples!

OTOH it speaks about signs we can see. Is it possible that no one knows besides the people living in the time of the signs. Things get slowly revealed. I agree the verse clearly states we don't know. But what's teh use of all those signs if no one can/does know?

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

Dear, dear Novus,
That is just the name of a chapter of one of Bro. Preston's works:
The "Saviour of the World" series
by J. Preston Eby
chapter: THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS

Psalm 46:10 (Amplified Bible)
Let be and be still, and know (recognize and understand) that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations! I will be exalted in the earth!

Sorry BS. My above post is very right, that book is where most of Eby and others got their information.

The above book was and is one of the first complete works of UR

The Complete Title is: 
The Second Death and the Restitution of ALL Things by Andrew Jukes written in March of 1867

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS

The author, who wrote FOUR VIEWS OF CHRIST and THE LAW OF THE OFFERINGS, also penned this work, which originally took form as an extensive letter to a friend in the 1860s. This reprint brings the reader into an aspect of the author's later ministry which may surprise some. In it he examines the Scriptures regarding the destiny of the human race.

Andrew Jukes, paperback, 194 pages
(ISBN 0-910424-65-9) . . . . . . . . . . . .  8.00

[WhiteWings]

http://www.google.nl/search?num=100&hl=nl&safe=off&tbs=bks%3A1%2Cbkv%3Af&q=%22The+Second+Death+and+the+Restitution+of+ALL+Things%22+by+Andrew+Jukes&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

http://books.google.com/books?id=mkA-AAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22The+Second+Death+and+the+Restitution+of+ALL+Things%22+by+Andrew+Jukes&hl=nl&ei=i5YTTJGEJ9GJOLa3qPUL&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false