It just doesn't make sense...

[Andrew]

I just doesn't make sense why God tells some people that there is a forever hell, and others that there is no hell. It's posts like these that make me think that UR Christains might be deceived.

   
I would love to hear opinions on this post I found   

"The Holy Spirit entered my body. i really felt it when he entered me. i was filled with peace, love and comfort. God shared his love with me and gave me understanding of how much he really loves all of us. God loves the worst person out there. Even a murderer who killed 50 million ppl. God said he loves that person and hes ready to forgive them if only they ask. He's ready and willing to forgive u and remember ur sins no more. It was love that none of us could express. God told me he doesnt want hell for any of us. Hes not mean at all like some of us may see him. He only warns us because he loves us so much and wants us being reconciled back to him. I felt the holy spirit grieve in me. i started weeping nonstop for hours. The Holy Spirit was weeping for all the lost souls. He told me to pray and plead with God for forgiveness, mercy, grace and more time for all the lost sinners. pray that they come into a repentance and God softens their heart. God doesn't want hell for us. He weeps when 1 soul goes to hell. The lil bit of grief he allowed me to feel was too much for me to bear. i told God i cant handle this grief. its too much for me. God took the grief away from me. He just wanted me to know how high, deep and wide his love really is. I had hate for my enemy and unforgiveness but God gave me HIS OWN love for my enemy. And now i have love for my enemy and ive been trying to help him get saved and be reconciled back to God. There's no way u can love ur enemies on ur own. U can only love ur enemies when u SHARE in Gods love 😊💖 God is truly beautiful and he loves you so much. He doesnt want bad for u. He wants u to know and feel how much he loves you and he is for u 😊💖 we may fail God and get mad at him, but God will never fail us and will never leave us. I know this from experience😊 Jesus loves u 💖😊 read the bible starting in the book of John 😊 The NLT version is more easier to understand than KJV 😊💖"

This seems to match the "Heaven is so real" book where Jesus shows a woman hell and He is weeping for those in hell.

[jabcat]

all i can really say is what's possible...i hear in there some POSSIBLE interjections of one's own previously established beliefs, or interpreting things through a lens.

beyond that, i'd suggest not basing anything you believe on what someone says, or even says they experienced, necessarily.  be sure take whatever it is directly to God, search the scriptures for yourself (myself) and ask God for understanding, insight - even revelation.   :thumbsup:

[Andrew]

Hey Jabcat,

I search this website a lot visiting past threads but I don't think I've come across your testimony how you came to believe UR or your born again experience. I would love to hear about them If your willing to share (the more info about feelings, experiences, events - the more it will help) . You seem to have a very strong faith in UR and that intrigues me (every hell testimony I post doesn't phase you and it seems like you always have an answer it for so you must have had some experiences in your past that validate your belief). I know you would probably suggest that I should go directly to God about UR but it's a little complicated the situation that I'm in so hearing other peoples experiences sometimes allows me to put the pieces to the puzzle together and it gives me more hope. If you don't want to share I understand as its a deeply personal thing for some people. Thanks     

Andrew

[jabcat]

Sure.  On the surface it's not very dramatic. :)

Saved/received Christ as Savior at an early age at a little country church at an old fashioned altar.

Christian, yet ET believer until 2008, when going through a really dark time - for some reason I'm not fully cognizant of - I thought "is there any way out of hell".  Which thought had never occurred to me in the past 50 years of my life (I'm 61 now).

I started googling and ran across J. Preston Eby's writings, then read others.  For the first time I really started to see things about Greek meanings of words I'd never realized before.  Which, in the low condition I was in, I was quickly open to UR, as looking at the scriptures from that angle, it really registered.

So the first part of what I said earlier about not basing what one believes on what others say is a little off perhaps, because Mr. Eby and a few others' explanation of the scriptures was indeed helpful.  But then, through the years, I'd have periods of wondering and would just inside myself, take it before God as a question.  He has repeatedly reassured me that He has already revealed that truth of the matter, i.e., universal reconciliation.  Nothing like a finger writing on the wall or a flash of lightening, but just a real quickening of "I've already shown you".

I still look to Him for increased revelation, insight, etc., and I'm sure He gives me little pieces here or there.  But I'm not a philosopher, a great teacher, spiritual giant, etc.  So maybe He gives me what's necessary and what I can handle, little morsels at a time.  Mostly, I think He requires me to be faithful to things like standing for respect for the scriptures, encouraging people to love everyone (true love/concern, including if that means saying a not-so-popular truth;  rather than a new agey ishy-squishy anything's OK mantra), and trying myself to be more loving of Him and others.  Also, I'm sure He's interested and active in making me a nicer person to those around, including learning to love my wife just a little bit more like He "loved the church and gave Himself for it" - since I can be grumpy sometimes.

So anyway, don't hesitate to ask any other questions or points of clarification in this little mess I just wrote.  :)  James.

[jabcat]

p.s. Right or wrong, I kind of gave up on things like NDEs and even a lot of personal testimonies.  I've come to believe many things are indeed from God.  However, I've also come to believe that 1) we OFTEN view things - even bits of truth - through our own lenses/what we already believe, and that can add a level of distortion to our view.  And 2) many of us
humans have an active imagination, and can embellish, assume, etc., and so again, rightly or wrongly, I've become a bit more skeptical (discerning?) of some subjective experiences, and really need to sort of "test" things sometimes and/or see how it lines up with scripture.   :2c:  And some things at times, I might just say "I'm not too sure about".  :)

[Andrew]

Thanks you Jabcat

[GodIsLove]

That testimony in the original post could very well be interpreted to be UR. Nothing was said about hell being eternal, and it states that God doesn't want any to go to hell, he mourns those who aren't following him, he never leaves us or fails us, and will forgive us if we turn to him. Sounds UR to me!

[jugghead]

all i can really say is what's possible...i hear in there some POSSIBLE interjections of one's own previously established beliefs, or interpreting things through a lens.

beyond that, i'd suggest not basing anything you believe on what someone says, or even says they experienced, necessarily.  be sure take whatever it is directly to God, search the scriptures for yourself (myself) and ask God for understanding, insight - even revelation.   :thumbsup:

I definitely have to agree with this simply because of what Paul said in Romans 3:4, "let God be true, but every man a liar", which I view as testing anything of man for purity by taking it directly to God and letting His Spirit reveal it to your spirit.

This is the reason I love talking to people on this site, they do not claim what they say AS TRUTH, only that it is what they have come to understand through their own studies, and then point you in the direction they took, to find out for yourself.

Great post Jabcat

[jabcat]

:)  TY Rick   :handshake:

[WhiteWings]

God told me he doesnt want hell for any of us. Hes not mean at all like some of us may see him. He only warns us because he loves us so much and wants us being reconciled back to him.

Don't you see the contradiction in that? God doing things contrary to His own will?

[jugghead]

God told me he doesnt want hell for any of us. Hes not mean at all like some of us may see him. He only warns us because he loves us so much and wants us being reconciled back to him.

Don't you see the contradiction in that? God doing things contrary to His own will?

Nice catch WW, that's the big fish in the net

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:

  it is not Gods desire  that any should perish   2 Peter 3

The Day of the Lord

...8 Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

9The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

10 But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and its works will be laid bare....


I considered  verse 8   as the Day of the Lord being the 1000 years 

  and  our great concern   for others salvation , can greatly  make us miss out on our own salvation !!
 

  For me  and this is my  thoughts    that have been both carnal thoughts as well as  spiritual thoughts on the subject .

  That battle   just between the  two natures   that oppose each other  within my own  walls of salvation has been  going on  for many years  in the literal sense .    not to judge anything before the time the Lord comes  to bring it to Light .
It  is impossible to judge anyone else's  salvation .

You can help them by sharing your own  or stumble them greatly   , it is to me only when the Lord has prepared you to receive  the good news of the gospel   , that salvation is of God for all mankind especially for those that believe 

but we are to share our own faith in GOD to others  regardless of   error , for the fact being  CORRECTION  will  come though the HOLY SPIRIT   and those spiritual gifts  of healing and  restoring that which is lost or halted   upon  everyone  given the ears to hear what the Spirit is saying ..

  I am convinced we all learn obedience though the trial and error  phases of spiritual growth . but that is my own understanding and not forcing this on anyone to believe  me  without proving it to themselves also .
1 Tim 4



A Good Minister of Jesus Christ  ...8For physical exercise is of limited value, but godliness is valuable in every way, holding promise for the present life and for the one to come.
...9This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance.

10To this end we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. 11Command and teach these things....


That to me is the   proof  and the difference  of Truth , that we put our hope in the LIVING GOD  and no longer depend on our own  way of thinking any longer or anyone  else     for that matter , but to continue   and press on into it  further   without shutting your hearts door  and closing your mind up thinking you are protecting your own best  interest .

Salvation comes though   the Living God and the Holy Spirit does  make us believe it  ,But  we can grieve  the Holy Spirit to the point of  cutting off till the end , everyone has their own end to  contend with , in my opinion ,  and the end is  being judged by the Word spoken to us all ..and death is the last enemy  to be defeated , I believe many preach and teach the death message  and oppose the TRUTH   in pure ignorance  , but Jesus fixed that on the cross  , with forgive them Father for they know not what they do , even Paul confessed  this truth and I must also ,  to be honest with my own self before  GOD and others .

When you give it all to GOD , that GLORY  ,  than does the changes come in my opinion   for the better and not for the worse .

  every knee will bow to the LORD  in repentance  , Some just have  already   and wait on HIM  patiently  till the fulness  comes  upon all mankind .
  It is only a secret  to those  still opposing  the Truth   in my most humble opinion .

GOD will have His way  on all creation  and it was made for HIS own glory to be  known to all  in the end . Till God be all in all .   not a few or some but ALL  1 Cor 15   the   written revelation of Jesus Christ  , to be heard and than acted upon by the HOLY SPIRIT   witness .


The Order of Resurrection  !


...27For "God has put everything under His feet."

Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him.

28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.

29If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?...

  Why bother sharing the good news of the gospel if these things are not so ?

  LOVE IS like a  great chain reaction  , if the weakest link is broken how will that force  be mended ?

  Who can stop GOD from doing His own   work  with His own things ?   or whom would be so foolish  to think they had any nay saying  in the matter ?

     May God show His  mercy on us all .

[jugghead]

 :HeartThrob: it Rose  :iagree:

[Abigail]

Hi Andrew,

What helped me was one of George MacDonald's unspoken sermons, namely this one:
http://www.online-literature.com/george-macdonald/unspoken-sermons/18/

In this he paints a picture of how he thinks it could be after death, a kind of punishment/judgment that would be a hellish experience indeed, but not forever or out of vengeance, but meant to bring to repentance and to heal. The way he describes it 'clicks' in my spirit and I believe it resonates with Scripture, AND a lot of NDE's and so on can be explained in that light.

Abigail

[Andrew]

thanks Abigail

[Andrew]

Thanks to all the wonderful replies. This turned out to be a very interesting thread.

[chester-blowfold]

Hi Andrew,

What helped me was one of George MacDonald's unspoken sermons, namely this one:
http://www.online-literature.com/george-macdonald/unspoken-sermons/18/

In this he paints a picture of how he thinks it could be after death, a kind of punishment/judgment that would be a hellish experience indeed, but not forever or out of vengeance, but meant to bring to repentance and to heal. The way he describes it 'clicks' in my spirit and I believe it resonates with Scripture, AND a lot of NDE's and so on can be explained in that light.

Abigail

Sounds like Catholic purgatory?

[darryl]

 God doesn't want hell for us. He weeps when 1 soul goes to hell ?...yet he creates an eternal everlasting torture chamber and makes himself miserable by sending  billions of folk there ?...and keeps creating billions more people knowing he'll send them there too ?....such an idea goes against all my being but most of all goes against  my personal experience of the love and benevolence of God, Father , Son and Holy Spirit...

[darryl]

Hi Andrew,

What helped me was one of George MacDonald's unspoken sermons, namely this one:
http://www.online-literature.com/george-macdonald/unspoken-sermons/18/

In this he paints a picture of how he thinks it could be after death, a kind of punishment/judgment that would be a hellish experience indeed, but not forever or out of vengeance, but meant to bring to repentance and to heal. The way he describes it 'clicks' in my spirit and I believe it resonates with Scripture, AND a lot of NDE's and so on can be explained in that light.

Abigail

Sounds like Catholic purgatory?

no, its not like Catholic purgatory...I don't wish to sound condescending but please pray for guidance and enlightenment on this...I did and I understand way more than I used to about what happens to unbelievers after they die....

[Abigail]

I think the idea of purgatory is more like a prison sentence: for a certain crime (level of sinfulness) there is a certain amount of punishment. And if someone pays a bail or you behave yourself very well, the sentence is shortened.de
The idea George MacDonalds describes is more like judgments on earth also work: you try to live without God or do things without Him and you're coming at the end of yourself. Broken, and just wanting Him because you realize that without Him (Love Himself), you are nothing and have nothing. I believe that to be the nature and goal of judgment. To come at the end of Self and sin and be drawn to the One Who saves us from it.
To me what MacDonalds describes is something like the judgments in the afterlife are like an amplification of the judgments here on earth, maybe just to let it go faster? Anyway, that's my interpretation, but to know what he really says, you've got to read for yourself.

[marie glen]

I finally realized what a KEY to this Jude 7 is!

“..as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them ...are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” - clearly showing lake of fire is not a place (at all) but an event (plural). And totally Earthly. “The judgment” the Lord made mention of is the one of Rev. 20, and 2 Peter 2:9 - “God knows how to preserve the unrighteous”/not yet saved “for CORRECTION/kolazo on day” (age? imo) “of judgment”. Also Rev.20.

Compare 2 Peter 3:10 - at the Lord’s return..
And verses 12-13 (also of 2 Peter 3) with 1 Corinthians 15:28 and Rev. 21:1-5 - the all in all event when death dies..

See the verses here - but remember “handed over to the Father WHO IS a consuming/purifying fire - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Peter+3%3A10%2C1+Corinthians+15%3A28%2C2+Peter+3%3A12-13%2CRevelation+21%3A3-5&version=NKJV

[Shev]

I do find we can be so patronizing of God, as if pitying Him for setting rules in place He wishes He did not have to follow.

One thing we can all agree on is that God has a PLAN. If His PLAN is to create mankind with a fatal flaw, so that man falls into spiritual death, then entrust salvation to those who are spiritually blind, deaf and dumb, blame them for not spiritually seeing, hearing or speaking, and then wring His hands that they are all going to hell....surely we can all agree that is a very lousy plan?

On the contrary, God has a wise plan, a benevolent plan, and a loving plan, that has been advancing forward without repulsion, never suffering even one defeat, for indeed the greatest defeat on the surface (the cross) was the outright victory. This plan will continue to unfold and develop, until God is All in all, and every tongue confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father.

[marie glen]

I do find we can be so patronizing of God, as if pitying Him for setting rules in place He wishes He did not have to follow.

One thing we can all agree on is that God has a PLAN. If His PLAN is to create mankind with a fatal flaw, so that man falls into spiritual death, then entrust salvation to those who are spiritually blind, deaf and dumb, blame them for not spiritually seeing, hearing or speaking, and then wring His hands that they are all going to hell....surely we can all agree that is a very lousy plan?

On the contrary, God has a wise plan, a benevolent plan, and a loving plan, that has been advancing forward without repulsion, never suffering even one defeat, for indeed the greatest defeat on the surface (the cross) was the outright victory. This plan will continue to unfold and develop, until God is All in all, and every tongue confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father.

Amen! ..This reminds me of how it seems totally missed by the ET 'gospel' that logic and logical have as their root word - logos. I agree the ET gospel as all around greatly lacking in any sort of logic! Truth, to my mind, very much includes logic. And is "the" supplement to the scriptures.. which the original languages of the bible usually very much support - even if translators have loved to run with the meanings of some words like they do with verses - or so often have chosen  the most extreme possible usage. :doh:
:Peace2:

[Andrew]

posted by Marie Glen

"Amen! ..This reminds me of how it seems totally missed by the ET 'gospel' that logic and logical have as their root word - logos. I agree the ET gospel as all around greatly lacking in any sort of logic! Truth, to my mind, very much includes logic. And is "the" supplement to the scriptures.. which the original languages of the bible usually very much support - even if translators have loved to run with the meanings of some words like they do with verses - or so often have chosen  the most extreme possible usage."

Hi Marie,

Is the word "logos" used a lot in the bible? - do you know any examples? If so, that is an interesting argument that ET is not logical contradicting the Logos . But then again ET believers might just say that it is higher logic that humans cannot not comprehend. :doh:   

[jabcat]

according to Aristotle, Logos (appeal to logic) is a way of persuading an audience with reason, using facts and figures

a definition of logos, as in "logos of God", is  "word, reason, plan" of God

from John S. Wilson   ... at least 57 of 128 instances of the use of the word [logos/logon]seem to reflect our Lord or the name of our Lord as "the Word." .. Additionally, the letter of Acts uses "logon" to describe what others announced and proclaimed and what others were to hear and believe [God's reason, plan (written, spoken, revealed, etc.)].... where "logon" is not necessarily the personal indwelling Lord or His name as "the Word" it does seem to indicate the Spirit of Christ is at work either through the written or spoken word given by the scripture or those living by His life, in other instances it refers to an expression of a thought by the words of the one speaking....context is important to distinguish this truth.