God's choice

[whatistruth]

Hi everyone!

I started doing intensive research nowadays. For this reason,I can ask more questions to you. Forgive me for that.

First question,

Ezekiel 20:32 You say, "We want to be like the nations, like the peoples of the world, who serve wood and stone." But what you have in mind will never happen

God protects Israel from other gods and protect from falling into bad roads. Why did not god protect other nations too?

Other question,

Galatians 3:8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you"

As non-universalist people claim,

Writings about the save of the nations, just interested in the opening of the gospel to the nations?   :sigh:

[WhiteWings]

Not sure I understand your question but this little psalm tells us other nations are going to be part of Jerusalem.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+87&version=NLT

[whatistruth]

Not sure I understand your question

It is my deficiency. I'm sorry about that. Thank you for answers  :friendstu:

I'll try to explain it again,

The non-universalist ones say,

" These verses are not about the save of all nations or all people. It is only about the opening of the gospel to every human race. Those who believe within all nations are saved.

This verse explains what it means to the promise given to Abraham,

Gal. 3:8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you "

Well, As it Arminian propositions ...  I hope, I explained.

[WhiteWings]

You explained it very well.
Unfortunately there is no simple answer like giving you a verse that explains it all.
At least I'm not aware of it. To understand you need to see the bigger picture.
And it's no surprise that picture looks (vastly) different to everyone.


http://tentmaker.org/forum/bible-verses-used-to-assert-not-all-will-be-saved/hebrews-927-after-death-comes-judgement/msg122137/#msg122137
That post makes a case for the fact that all will be saved because all bow (be)fore Jesus.

http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/BitsAndPieces/idioms.html
Idiom #79 - For me it's getting more and more clear that a major stumbling block is not thinking like ancient Jews. Read about what love and hear really mean in Hebrew. It's also an action. So when Father wants/wills/etc it's not a thought but it is also an action. So He's actively doing stuff to save. Will He fail?

As for the nations: Why does God speak about nations? Why not as you say people in those nation?

[whatistruth]

http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/BitsAndPieces/idioms.html
Idiom #79 -

I know this website. Sometimes, I read. I learned some things from there. Thank you.

But I guess, there is a problem. All connections were visible before. But now, they do not all appear. And it looks a little mixed up.

As for the nations: Why does God speak about nations? Why not as you say people in those nation?

If I understood the question correctly,
I would say,

God is looking at people as a nation. I mean, Israel was a nation. (for a example,Esau-Edomites)But he kept his covenant with those who believed from nation.
And He made the god treaty with the nation of Israel and always favored them.

zechariah 2:8 because whoever touches you hurts what is precious to me...

But after the Messiah the nations became equal in the eyes of God. ( Sometimes I doubt it but at least In the sense of promises. Romans 11:7 )  New treaty.

There is a treaty in the middle.  Again.

For those who believe within all nations belong to God.

Briefly, since the very beginning, the promises were always under the name of 'nation'. But only those who believed got the promises. And will take.

(( P.S.     Even, The restoration of some nations is not written clearly. But The name of Israel is always said. If God will completely save the people nation of Israel, he has to save everybody.  Anyway, this is a separate topic. ))

I dont know. I guess, I did not fully assign my old belief. There are some facts that cannot be overlooked. And This is a very difficult process.

[WhiteWings]

http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/BitsAndPieces/idioms.html
Idiom #79 -

I know this website. Sometimes, I read. I learned some things from there. Thank you.

That's  :thumbsup:
But I'm not asking you to read it all. (But I would say you 'must' read it all and more. For me that really worked. Reading builds a foundation. That way you get less easy taken of guard by a difficult verse. But what works best for me may not work at all for you, because we are all different...)


The point is that in the western mind as we read things, many things are just mental things. A thought.
But the very same verbs in Hebrew alsoimply an action.
So imagine you meet Jesus and He explains how great it is to help the poor. After a teaching for an hour He asks "Do you understand?"
In the western mind that simply means "Are you smart enough to get what I said?"
If you would answer "Yes, I understand" in Hebrew, it would mean you not only smart enough to understand but also actually help the poor.

You may be wondering how that's relevant for your question...
If God says "I want ..."  that's not just a powerless thought/hope/desire. It also start of an action to get what He wants.
So God wanting all to get saved is more that a hope. It's a battle plan with boots on the ground.

As for the nations: Why does God speak about nations? Why not as you say people in those nation?

If I understood the question correctly,
I would say,

God is looking at people as a nation. I mean, Israel was a nation. (for a example,Esau-Edomites)But he kept his covenant with those who believed from nation.
And He made the god treaty with the nation of Israel and always favored them.

zechariah 2:8 because whoever touches you hurts what is precious to me...

But after the Messiah the nations became equal in the eyes of God. ( Sometimes I doubt it but at least In the sense of promises. Romans 11:7 )  New treaty.

There is a treaty in the middle.  Again.

For those who believe within all nations belong to God.

Briefly, since the very beginning, the promises were always under the name of 'nation'. But only those who believed got the promises. And will take.

(( P.S.     Even, The restoration of some nations is not written clearly. But The name of Israel is always said. If God will completely save the people nation of Israel, he has to save everybody.  Anyway, this is a separate topic. ))

I dont know. I guess, I did not fully assign my old belief. There are some facts that cannot be overlooked. And This is a very difficult process.[/quote]
You gave a good answer. Much more complicated than I was asking for.

A nation is just a group of people. But it's talked about as a whole. Not a part.

[whatistruth]

A nation is just a group of people. But it's talked about as a whole. Not a part.

I thought about this issue,

When God punishes a nation, there remains a group of people from that nation.

It is generally aimed at deleting the name of the criminal nation. He can give back this name.

People who have been left out of the destroyed nations have probably come up to day in different races.

When this is the case, it may be lost persons within nations that it says will save.

If God says "I want ..."  that's not just a powerless thought/hope/desire. It also start of an action to get what He wants.
So God wanting all to get saved is more that a hope. It's a battle plan with boots on the ground.

Yes. The idea that God can not do anything has always been absurd to me.
But now, God does not interfere in the rape of a small child. He doesn't want it too. But it does not prevent.

And very important,

Two verses related to this subject make me think,

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?'

Lamen. 3:33 For he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to anyone.

The desire of God is different, but because of people he kill them and he make sad them.
:dontknow:

[marie glen]

Hi everyone!

I started doing intensive research nowadays. For this reason,I can ask more questions to you. Forgive me for that.

:hiya: hi!

First question,

Ezekiel 20:32 You say, "We want to be like the nations, like the peoples of the world, who serve wood and stone." But what you have in mind will never happen

God protects Israel from other gods and protect from falling into bad roads. Why did not god protect other nations too?

I think because Israel was engineered to be one small place prepared for Messiah / Savior "of the world" to be born into, etc. (Swaddling cloths!). You see, I believe rational creatures have the ability to make choices (though not about when they are reconciled to God!) And now 'choice' is being let to run its course. I mean why did He confuse the languages and separate all the peoples? I'm thinking because we would have gotten to this pending world destruction much much sooner.. before things are thoroughly proven. Now we've had enough history - the same story over and over, both individually and collectively, which is apocalypse - when things not built on the Rock crash n burn, truth is unveiled from untruth.

I believe God is life itself... the spark of life.. all of it.. And I think He is perfection.. So what occurs once one chooses any tiny thing in thought, word or deed which disagrees with what He chooses? They become imperfect, the opposite of life.

"I am come to save that which was lost" - could also read "to heal that devoted/headed to destruction" - greek words #4982 and #G622
As we know, "the wages" consequences, results "of sin" ("missing the mark" - G266) "is death" (which I believe to be non-life, and NOT 'hel'.

A very important lesson all are learning - that to wander from Him/Life/Perfection can only ever lead to self destruction.. because of His nature it is a foundational basic natural law that is within everything and always will be.. "He has come to save that which was lost.."

Other question,

Galatians 3:8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you"

As non-universalist people claim,

Writings about the save of the nations, just interested in the opening of the gospel to the nations?   :sigh:

I believe that verse to be quite literal.. it's only misunderstanding and misperception which causes us to fall back into everything being allegory, something which the very first church fathers did not do.. I can't remember which one started it.. (Origen?) not that I don't think there is plenty of spiritual lesson in all things.. indeed life itself is an allegory.. but it is still quite literal!

God bless! And congratulations on studying God's Word! ThAt is the true path to truth.. plus prayer (and listening) of course.. Too many simply rely upon others to do the reading for them!

Rodger Tutt's topic in "Discussions on Universal Salvation" is veRy excellent as an extra reading material list and very good posts, as is, of course this website.. though I've not searched it much, never having been educated by a church, etc, came to the Lord in 1974.. [Lucky me :banana: I've not really had to unlearn much..]
  :gsmile: