James, if this post is in the wrong section move/delete with free will :winkgrin:
Not strickly verses that show not all will be saved but still something to consider I think.
The 12 had a close relationship with Jesus during His ministry. Some for about 33 years because Jesus was (close) family.
They had actually heard His teachings. Saw His miracles. Lived in the same culture. Etc.
When Jesus was arrested they denied they knew Him.
When the women reported to the 12 He was resurrected they didn't believe the women.
Thomas did only believe when after he was allowed to touch Jesus' wounds.
Were they doomed for being unbelievers? Nope, Jesus just returned and gave them that extra proof they needed.
:2c:
O'yeah, WW their faith was the tiniest of seeds...BUT LOOK HOW IT GREW.....so that they were all martyred and were faithful unto Him even unto death.
The parable of the mustard seed comes to mind.
One thought is "Lord I believe, help my unbelief". I'm not sure anyone always 100% believes.
Interesting to note that Jesus said they had been given to understand the secrets of the kingdom, yet they were still expecting some different things (earthly kingdom) than what Jesus had in mind (spiritual)..
Also, I don't believe they could "technically"/fully be spiritually reborn until after the cross, and another aspect of that is, the Holy Spirit hadn't as yet "completely arrived" (Acts 2).
:thumbsup:
There's a huge difference in Peter after he receives the Spirit.
Before he's enthusiastic, loves Jesus, but is still weak in the flesh and not really understanding much.
Afterwards, his very shadow heals people.
14And all the more believers in the Lord, multitudes of men and women, were constantly added to their number, 15to such an extent that they even carried the sick out into the streets and laid them on cots and pallets, so that when Peter came by at least his shadow might fall on any one of them. 16Also the people from the cities in the vicinity of Jerusalem were coming together, bringing people who were sick or afflicted with unclean spirits, and they were all being healed. [Acts 5]
When Jesus got arrested, a cloud of darkness engulfed the land. This is the hour of darkness.
Be glad while the light is in the world, but that light left the disciples for a little while.
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 23, 2011, 10:53:26 AM
James, if this post is in the wrong section move/delete with free will :winkgrin:
Not strickly verses that show not all will be saved but still something to consider I think.
The 12 had a close relationship with Jesus during His ministry. Some for about 33 years because Jesus was (close) family.
They had actually heard His teachings. Saw His miracles. Lived in the same culture. Etc.
When Jesus was arrested they denied they knew Him.
When the women reported to the 12 He was resurrected they didn't believe the women.
Thomas did only believe when after he was allowed to touch Jesus' wounds.
Were they doomed for being unbelievers? Nope, Jesus just returned and gave them that extra proof they needed.
:2c:
I think that Believing is one thing, denying another quite different thing.
The only one who did not believe in Jesus was Judas.
My faith is that One is saved by faith alone, not by any works of any kind, including not denying Him.
Yeah the denying was out of fear.
But rejecting His resurection was out of unbelief.
QuoteMy faith is that One is saved by faith alone, not by any works of any kind, including not denying Him.
I seen denying Jesus as lack of faith.
I deny Jesus existed. I deny He was risen from the dead. I deny He was the Son Of God. Does that sound like faith?
I think the whole difference was the spirit of God coming at Pentecost and settling like tongues of fire on the (about) 500 believers there. Even Peter, John and James were complacent until seeing the resurrected Christ on the shore after they had returned to their fishing boats and started fishing for fish again.
well WW I think we can 'lose faith" in God and Christ. And thus Jesus come to the lost sheep as a
shepherd. first faith then hope then love......man has felt forsaken and bereft of God in this death/vanity
expierence
no wick will He extinguish....He 'lights" every man...so the 'lamp" will not go out...so when the lamp of the disciples had it's hour of darkness...He relighted it
on the third day.......and gave them the extra oil for the vessels as promised by the Father[Holy spirit]......
'I have prayed that your faith not give out"
and so we walk by faith as He opens the scriptures to our understanding[even though we do not recognize Him] and as we wait for His appearing...
and He appearred again unto the disciples after His resurrection...and said wait for the promise of the Father