you guys teach hell is not eternal?

[IceDash]

then why this is in your website:

http://www.av1611.org/hell.html



Are you guys on sidetracking or confusing us with this? This website in on this website. :dontknow:

[IceDash]

lol, my bad.....I should have read this:

The so-called Truth about Hell from a Christian Fundamentalist's point of view:

"from the church's point of view"

Sorry forgive me....you can close this thread. I understand now why church didn't pay attention and read carefully, like me. :thumbdown:

Now I feel dumb lol.

[WhiteWings]

Cool down Ice!  :laughing7:
You saw your 'mistake' within a few minutes. Church hasn't cracked the riddle in thousands of years  :happygrin:

[WhiteWings]

Extra extra!

IceDash you may like to read "Lake of Fire series on": http://bible-truths.com/

[Taffy]

Hi :icon_flower:

Did you ever think this Strange , That  Death & Hell are cast into HELL itself, Kinda weird ah?something dont ring does it...as the LAKE of Fire is CHRIST HIMSELF.,

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the  THE LAKE OF FIRE :Sparkletooth: This is the second death.

I kinda veiw it like this:- :icon_flower:


If we take the NATURAL as the shadow of a spiritual reality , we can veiw this totally at another level.

Looking at the  NATURAL ,Lets Take Sheol\Hades which is the Grave\DEATH, a 6ft pit where DEAD bodies lay, scripture also REFERS to death as SLEEP \ASLEEP\........= Dead souls.

But  Dead souls are Not just those who naturally sleep in the Grave ,not according to the scriptures.

More simply put ,dead souls\Walking\Talk ng Tombs are those who alive in this fleshy Body, BUT DEAD to Christ , Dead not KNOWING The TRUE life  BEFORE THEM.

Graves are where dead Folk live right?..but these souls were alive, but in truth , Dead Men walking who didnt KNOW IT, that is ,DEAD not KNOWING HIM...DEAD to HIM, NOT A SCRIPTURAL TERM BUT, spiritually DEAD

Examples of the Pharisees are true and many ,

Luk 11:44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over [them] are not aware [of them].
Rom 3:13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: .

The spirits( souls in PRISON, Dead in Hades) are such souls who too are spirtually dead to HIM...more dead men walking

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;


1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Christ came to RELEASE US from such bondage of DEATH,....

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.  Tis
the Soul of man , heart and mind, ....That which  is enmity to HIM...is Death , therefore  In the Grave, ITS THIS WHICH IS CAST iNTO CHRIST, HE BEING The LAKE OF FIRE,....along with all other souls who are ALSO dead to HIM...

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. ( works of the HANDS(LAW) OR HIS works of faith through us.)
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the  THE LAKE OF FIRE :Sparkletooth: This is the second death.

so what Dies,perishes is DEATH itself , and the causes of such DEATH....This all being fulfilled at the cross

Pro 15:24 The way of life [is] above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath. 
Pro 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, [and] thou heardest my voice.


We move from DEATH to life , IN HIM....

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life

2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: OUR MINDS AND HEART RENEWED , (Christ in US)

Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

:icon_flower:

[rosered]

  wow, That is a good summary Taffy  :icon_flower:

   :thumbsup: N  I was looking at this last night  with  surprise
  that goes well with your summary of the Lake of Fire   

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and that sathis name   on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth,


to kill with sword,

and with hunger,
  and with death,

and with the beasts of the earth.
 
    the name  Death  who rides on the pale horse is  given power over 1/4 of the earth  with death   as well as the  3 other  curses
 
  the definitons  in strongs  do not help at all in this case  of the above  verse  ,  there is a big mystery  in  this verse , sure I realize it is a type of judgment and also a fulfilment   , but the WAY  it is worded  is what has  me  mystified   does anyone  have some answer  to this verse ?
  I am all ears  today ...I am missing something  for sure , it may be something so simple , but still  I question many things with the Lake of Fire  as to being  a good thing or  bad thing , still looking   for the WORD  for Proofs

Kim and I have also been   looking into the Lake of Fire on our last phone conversations  and it is far  from  figured out and settled within us   when  Death and Hell  who follws with Death  are cast into  hell
  it just seems  odd to me  it is weird and the above  verse was the same reaction  bro G  weird verse , that is exactly what i said last night !!!

so we are  both questioning this  at  the same time , I find that  comforting    perhaps  the Lord is going to show us something big  now in this ,  i cannot  speak to much about  the things I dont understand   till it is settled within   my spirit and soul  as Firm

  Thanks so much  for  bringing this up and Out into the open Bro G

   :HeartThrob: rose

[legoman]

Extra extra!

IceDash you may like to read "Lake of Fire series on": http://bible-truths.com/

Highly recommended  :thumbsup:

Don't expect baby's milk there, get ready for a nice 7 course meal with juicy steak, baked potato, and the works.

1 Cor 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.


Caution: only read the above link (bible-truths) if you are ready for some meat  :winkgrin:

All kidding aside, anyone who is on this site is most likely already progressing past baby milk for their (spiritual) nourishment.

Enjoy,
Legoman

[WhiteWings]

All kidding aside, anyone who is on this site is most likely already progressing past baby milk for their (spiritual) nourishment.

Not all. But I need more that oneliners to be convinced of anything. Religious or non religious.

For some extra bloody steak read the letters/e-mail section. Not always so polite but a good learning spot.
I often learn best from people fighting eachother with arguments. Everyone can put up a convincing story.
Until.... some skilled person starts punching holes in it.

[Taffy]

Hi Rosey

Nathan will be about later...he has some good points on the four horsemen , he could put it across better than I... :icon_flower:

[rosered]

Hi Rosey

Nathan will be about later...he has some good points on the four horsemen , he could put it across better than I... :icon_flower:

Well thats good I done some studying  about  4or 5 years ago on them 4 Spirits [horses] Zech 6  Rev 6   but did not save anything  and  I am rusty  , my memory  is not what it once was  :sigh:

  good sound reasoning is what keeps  my attention  on these matters
   :thumbsup:

   :HeartThrob:rose

[legoman]

All kidding aside, anyone who is on this site is most likely already progressing past baby milk for their (spiritual) nourishment.

Not all. But I need more that oneliners to be convinced of anything. Religious or non religious.

For some extra bloody steak read the letters/e-mail section. Not always so polite but a good learning spot.
I often learn best from people fighting eachother with arguments. Everyone can put up a convincing story.
Until.... some skilled person starts punching holes in it.

Exactly.  There is much to be learned in the letters section - I enjoy rereading them to pick up new bits of info that I missed previously.  As you say not always so polite - that turns some people off, but he doesn't mince words and says it plainly.  And many people aren't ready to be weened from the baby bottle yet.

Cheers,
Legoman

[Taffy]

All kidding aside, anyone who is on this site is most likely already progressing past baby milk for their (spiritual) nourishment.

Not all. But I need more that oneliners to be convinced of anything. Religious or non religious.

For some extra bloody steak read the letters/e-mail section. Not always so polite but a good learning spot.
I often learn best from people fighting eachother with arguments. Everyone can put up a convincing story.
Until.... some skilled person starts punching holes in it.

Exactly.  There is much to be learned in the letters section - I enjoy rereading them to pick up new bits of info that I missed previously.  As you say not always so polite - that turns some people off, but he doesn't mince words and says it plainly.  And many people aren't ready to be weened from the baby bottle yet.

Cheers,
Legoman

Hi Legoman :icon_flower:

Some of us read Rays stuff years back bro ,personally Im more than familier with all of it , having spent a couple of seasons, early doors  at Bts myself, twas in Fact Me who abbreviated the  :icon_flower:  Name..B-Ts...:icon_flower:

[legoman]

Hi Legoman :icon_flower:

Some of us read Rays stuff years back bro ,personally Im more than familier with all of it , having spent a couple of seasons, early doors  at Bts myself, twas in Fact Me who abbreviated the  :icon_flower:  Name..B-Ts...:icon_flower:

Cool - yeah I figured as much that you old timers would be familiar with his site (and other sites).  I'm a relative newbie  to UR, been only studying for about a year... but I found Ray's writing very helpful in straigtening out my previously skewed views.  Maybe some other newbies around here have not heard of bible-truths.  IMO it should be required reading if you really want to dig into the truth, regardless of whether you agree with everything he says and what you think of his "bedside manner"  :laughing7: personally I like his approach - no beating around the bush.

Legoman

[Taffy]

Hi Legoman :icon_flower:

Some of us read Rays stuff years back bro ,personally Im more than familier with all of it , having spent a couple of seasons, early doors  at Bts myself, twas in Fact Me who abbreviated the  :icon_flower:  Name..B-Ts...:icon_flower:

Cool - yeah I figured as much that you old timers would be familiar with his site (and other sites).  I'm a relative newbie  to UR, been only studying for about a year... but I found Ray's writing very helpful in straigtening out my previously skewed views.  Maybe some other newbies around here have not heard of bible-truths.  IMO it should be required reading if you really want to dig into the truth, regardless of whether you agree with everything he says and what you think of his "bedside manner"  :laughing7: personally I like his approach - no beating around the bush.

Legoman

Yo LM :icon_flower:

I pop there almost daily to veiw posting of the Members  ,ive noticed you several times Bud, more than a few at Tent spent their early days over at B-Ts , one at least, still posts there from time to time .

Godd to see you get around the forums, sharing and gleaning from all :icon_flower:

:icon_flower:

[legoman]

Yeah, I like to look at a subject from all viewpoints, both pro and con, and form my own conclusions.  Lately I have been posting in a lot of different forums in order to learn AND share.  I haven't set up an account at CARM though  :winkgrin: ... yet.

Legoman

[Taffy]

Yeah, I like to look at a subject from all viewpoints, both pro and con, and form my own conclusions.  Lately I have been posting in a lot of different forums in order to learn AND share.  I haven't set up an account at CARM though  :winkgrin: ... yet.

Legoman

Well if you decide to Join, there are a few I know from this board along with others who are there :icon_flower:

[IceDash]

heh.. :grin: thank guys for not giving me those church's expression:

"oh, you are going to hell!"

Don't church love to say that all the thing?

[jabcat]

Hi :icon_flower:

Did you ever think this Strange , That  Death & Hell are cast into HELL itself, Kinda weird ah?something dont ring does it...as the LAKE of Fire is CHRIST HIMSELF.,

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the  THE LAKE OF FIRE :Sparkletooth: This is the second death.

I kinda veiw it like this:- :icon_flower:


If we take the NATURAL as the shadow of a spiritual reality , we can veiw this totally at another level.

Looking at the  NATURAL ,Lets Take Sheol\Hades which is the Grave\DEATH, a 6ft pit where DEAD bodies lay, scripture also REFERS to death as SLEEP \ASLEEP\........= Dead souls.

But  Dead souls are Not just those who naturally sleep in the Grave ,not according to the scriptures.

More simply put ,dead souls\Walking\Talk ng Tombs are those who alive in this fleshy Body, BUT DEAD to Christ , Dead not KNOWING The TRUE life  BEFORE THEM.

Graves are where dead Folk live right?..but these souls were alive, but in truth , Dead Men walking who didnt KNOW IT, that is ,DEAD not KNOWING HIM...DEAD to HIM, NOT A SCRIPTURAL TERM BUT, spiritually DEAD

Examples of the Pharisees are true and many ,

Luk 11:44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over [them] are not aware [of them].
Rom 3:13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: .

The spirits( souls in PRISON, Dead in Hades) are such souls who too are spirtually dead to HIM...more dead men walking

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;


1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Christ came to RELEASE US from such bondage of DEATH,....

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.  Tis
the Soul of man , heart and mind, ....That which  is enmity to HIM...is Death , therefore  In the Grave, ITS THIS WHICH IS CAST iNTO CHRIST, HE BEING The LAKE OF FIRE,....along with all other souls who are ALSO dead to HIM...

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. ( works of the HANDS(LAW) OR HIS works of faith through us.)
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the  THE LAKE OF FIRE :Sparkletooth: This is the second death.

so what Dies,perishes is DEATH itself , and the causes of such DEATH....This all being fulfilled at the cross

Pro 15:24 The way of life [is] above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath. 
Pro 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, [and] thou heardest my voice.


We move from DEATH to life , IN HIM....

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life

2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: OUR MINDS AND HEART RENEWED , (Christ in US)

Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

:icon_flower:

:goodpost:

[Paul Hazelwood]

heh.. :grin: thank guys for not giving me those church's expression:

"oh, you are going to hell!"

Don't church love to say that all the thing?

In the spirit of presenting a more nice and loving gospel I've actually heard someone say, "well they are going to hell, but why rub salt into the wound by reminding them all the time".  Nuts, just nuts,.

[martincisneros]

Hell is absolutely eternal:-)










Hell is eternal nonsense:-)

[CHB]

Hi :icon_flower:

Did you ever think this Strange , That  Death & Hell are cast into HELL itself, Kinda weird ah?something dont ring does it...as the LAKE of Fire is CHRIST HIMSELF.,

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the  THE LAKE OF FIRE :Sparkletooth: This is the second death.

I kinda veiw it like this:- :icon_flower:


If we take the NATURAL as the shadow of a spiritual reality , we can veiw this totally at another level.

Looking at the  NATURAL ,Lets Take Sheol\Hades which is the Grave\DEATH, a 6ft pit where DEAD bodies lay, scripture also REFERS to death as SLEEP \ASLEEP\........= Dead souls.

But  Dead souls are Not just those who naturally sleep in the Grave ,not according to the scriptures.

More simply put ,dead souls\Walking\Talk ng Tombs are those who alive in this fleshy Body, BUT DEAD to Christ , Dead not KNOWING The TRUE life  BEFORE THEM.

Graves are where dead Folk live right?..but these souls were alive, but in truth , Dead Men walking who didnt KNOW IT, that is ,DEAD not KNOWING HIM...DEAD to HIM, NOT A SCRIPTURAL TERM BUT, spiritually DEAD

Examples of the Pharisees are true and many ,

Luk 11:44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over [them] are not aware [of them].
Rom 3:13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: .

The spirits( souls in PRISON, Dead in Hades) are such souls who too are spirtually dead to HIM...more dead men walking

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;


1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Christ came to RELEASE US from such bondage of DEATH,....

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.  Tis
the Soul of man , heart and mind, ....That which  is enmity to HIM...is Death , therefore  In the Grave, ITS THIS WHICH IS CAST iNTO CHRIST, HE BEING The LAKE OF FIRE,....along with all other souls who are ALSO dead to HIM...

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. ( works of the HANDS(LAW) OR HIS works of faith through us.)
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the  THE LAKE OF FIRE :Sparkletooth: This is the second death.

so what Dies,perishes is DEATH itself , and the causes of such DEATH....This all being fulfilled at the cross

Pro 15:24 The way of life [is] above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath. 
Pro 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, [and] thou heardest my voice.


We move from DEATH to life , IN HIM....

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life

2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: OUR MINDS AND HEART RENEWED , (Christ in US)

Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

:icon_flower:

Hi Taffy,

This is kind of the way I see this. Although Willie has some good ideas as well. Very good post. I seem to learn a little on this as time goes on. The more it is discussed the more clearer it becomes. This subject use to be the hardest thing for me, I couldn't understand it at all. Just in the past couple of years it has began to take on shape.  :thumbsup:

CHB