The anti-christ's 666

[martincisneros]

It is actually good news that we are to see ourself as the anti-Christ. 

And LoF was prepared for them....  :happygrin:

Good point.  AntiChrist is tossed in the Lake of Fire prior to the millenium and can't have any part in rulership with Christ.  Anybody that wants to see themselves as the AntiChrist, by all means, go ahead.  But I'm not running and jumping in that Lake too!  I can't claim that against the work of the Blood by which I'm sanctified.

[sparrow]

Since anti- means "opposite" or "against"...

I think it's safe to say that we all deal with our own personal anti-christ on a daily basis.

I'm with Paul.

[WhiteWings]

Sparrow,

I can follow your logic. And I don't even disagree with it. But it raises some questions.
If I ask you "Is 100% of humanity cast in LoF?"
If your answer is:
Yes: Who are the saints that rules during 1000 years?
No: Not all are/where anti-christs

[Nathan]

It's not about 100% of humanity being cast into the lake of fire bro . . .it's more about 100% of CARNALITY . . .which is in all of us . . .thus the reasoning for seeing that the lake of fire applies to all men.  It's purpose is not for eternal torment, but for purging, cleansing and purifying . . .when it does what it's created to do, we're then enabled to be "wholly" the bride that is purified without blemish.

[martincisneros]

Carnality isn't in all.

[sparrow]

Carnality isn't in all.

Is it in you?

[sparrow]

It's not about 100% of humanity being cast into the lake of fire bro . . .it's more about 100% of CARNALITY . . .which is in all of us . . .thus the reasoning for seeing that the lake of fire applies to all men.  It's purpose is not for eternal torment, but for purging, cleansing and purifying . . .when it does what it's created to do, we're then enabled to be "wholly" the bride that is purified without blemish.

Yes, this is how I see it too, Nathan.

[martincisneros]

Carnality isn't in all.

Is it in you?

It's only in someone to the degree that the Written Word of God isn't first priority and final authority in every decision that they make, so, no, it's not in me.  The devil has nothing in me and can find nothing of his in me.

[WhiteWings]

It's not about 100% of humanity being cast into the lake of fire bro . . .it's more about 100% of CARNALITY . . .which is in all of us . . .thus the reasoning for seeing that the lake of fire applies to all men.  It's purpose is not for eternal torment, but for purging, cleansing and purifying . . .when it does what it's created to do, we're then enabled to be "wholly" the bride that is purified without blemish.

Great. The usual easy way out 'carnality answer'. But it doesn't answer my question.

[Nathan]

Perfect recipe for arguing . . .the clashing of different perspectives.

First WW, Scripture does state who the lake is for . . .it's for those whose names are not in the book of life.  Tradition says it's sinners . .but I see it differently .  . I don't see people being destroyed, I see the carnality in people being destroyed, which then means that you can't take it literally, but internally . . .My name is my identity . .my signature is my "signed - nature"  Those who can not identify with life are exposed to the lake where their carnal man is purged . . .really this is more about alignment than anything.

The ark of Noah is a picture of Christ and where it rests speaks volumes of the work of Christ . . .Ararat means the curse is reversed . . .sin is not the curse, it's only a symptom.  The curse is the misalignment of spirit and soul within us.  We were created with the original plan to be that we are led by spirit rather than soul, but Adam messed all of that up and Jesus restored us back to our original alignment in him. 

But my flesh, soul and spirit have not been destroyed, they still all exist and are all blended into one being that makes me "me".  Which leads me to the remark about us not having carnality in us . . .if that were true, then Scripture would not have to tell me that I must take captive my thoughts . . .what thoughts?  My carnal thinking, my natural reasoning.  As long as I have a mind, I have carnality.  Jesus said himself the spirit is willing but my flesh (carnality) is weak.

Paul spoke of this constant battle that wages on within him . . .Paul???  The great apostle struggled within himself?  Apparently even with him, accepting Christ did not remove carnality within either.  So I return to my original point . . . it's in all of us before, during and after our conversion.  What "is" changed is the order within us.  That's what submission is all about.  That "I" must decrease . . .that "I" is my carnal nature . .it must take a back seat to my spirit man so that God's light can shine through me without having to go through a filtering system that doesn't have the capability of comprehending spiritual matters.

Lastly, it's not a cop-out easy answer to everything . . .it's just something that applies to everything because that's how we reason, either by spirit or by flesh.  The question is, just how much of "me" am I willing to let decrease so that liberty can increase?  Much of our doctrines in the mainline churches have been based on men that had a spiritual experience but blended the experience in with natural reasoning and brought us to great cathedrals packed full of people that have no depth of relationship, but are most effecient at quoting the Bible and isolating the very ones they're supposedly saving.

Dealing with the fact that my mind may not be as impressive as I've convinced myself that it is, is not a pretty experience, but it's a necessary one that I must address if I really want to experience the radical grace of God through Christ.  I believe it is very much connected with the fire baptism . . . everything in me that does not identify with Light and Life must be washed in the lake.  Every doctrine, philosophy, every thought.  To take it into captivity is to cast it into the lake.  Not easy, not comfortable and I don't like it at all.  Pride stiffens up at the thought of submission to anyone or any thing . . .but pride is what manifests offenses.  And offensives between one and another is the manifestation of pride. 

So many people have literally violently killed others . . .all in the name of peace.  Is it "peace" that brings the warring?  Or is it my own mind that violently reacts to the very idea that my conclusions are not accurate?  This is why I now say, it's not about who's right or wrong . .but it's about who's at "one"?

[WhiteWings]

Perfect recipe for arguing . . .the clashing of different perspectives.

Long post but doesn't even attempt to answer my question as far as I can see it.
Just read my answer to Sparrow and take a moment to think what it actually is about.
The question is equally valid for someone who sees thing literal, spiritual, carnal, ...
But if you see a question as a clash of perspectives or a recipe for arguing then there is no need to continue.
You win.

[martincisneros]

Perfect recipe for arguing . . .the clashing of different perspectives.

First WW, Scripture does state who the lake is for . . .it's for those whose names are not in the book of life.  Tradition says it's sinners . .but I see it differently .  . I don't see people being destroyed, I see the carnality in people being destroyed, which then means that you can't take it literally, but internally . . .My name is my identity . .my signature is my "signed - nature"  Those who can not identify with life are exposed to the lake where their carnal man is purged . . .really this is more about alignment than anything.

No, it's for those who are raised from the dead in Revelation 20 whose names aren't in the Lamb's book of life.  God's not raising carnality from the dead so that it can go into the lake.  If it's died, God would leave it dead.  Your reasoning has never made sense on this.

The ark of Noah is a picture of Christ and where it rests speaks volumes of the work of Christ . . .Ararat means the curse is reversed . . .sin is not the curse, it's only a symptom.  The curse is the misalignment of spirit and soul within us.  We were created with the original plan to be that we are led by spirit rather than soul, but Adam messed all of that up and Jesus restored us back to our original alignment in him.

But the ark analogy doesn't fit for those that aren't in the ark at the time that that particular judgment strikes.  And Scripture declares in that day that there are some raised from the dead whose names aren't in the lamb's book of life, i.e. aren't in the ark of safety yet.

But my flesh, soul and spirit have not been destroyed, they still all exist and are all blended into one being that makes me "me".  Which leads me to the remark about us not having carnality in us . . .if that were true, then Scripture would not have to tell me that I must take captive my thoughts . . .what thoughts?  My carnal thinking, my natural reasoning.  As long as I have a mind, I have carnality.  Jesus said himself the spirit is willing but my flesh (carnality) is weak.

Settle it over the communion table with the Word of God and don't put up with it in yourself any longer.  You can break any carnal addiction to the old man in a matter of days.  Doesn't take the rest of your life and the lake of fire judgment.

Paul spoke of this constant battle that wages on within him . . .Paul???  The great apostle struggled within himself?  Apparently even with him, accepting Christ did not remove carnality within either.  So I return to my original point . . . it's in all of us before, during and after our conversion.  What "is" changed is the order within us.  That's what submission is all about.  That "I" must decrease . . .that "I" is my carnal nature . .it must take a back seat to my spirit man so that God's light can shine through me without having to go through a filtering system that doesn't have the capability of comprehending spiritual matters.

St. Paul's issue was with keeping every care of the Churches cast upon the Lord.  It wasn't cussing and drunkenness or whatever.  He says he tried to deal with things in some way other than the way that the Lord had shown him and yet the Lord kept saying His grace was sufficient.  So, he got with the program, stood on the Word, and later testified to Timothy that he'd been delivered of all of these afflictions.

Lastly, it's not a cop-out easy answer to everything . . .it's just something that applies to everything because that's how we reason, either by spirit or by flesh.  The question is, just how much of "me" am I willing to let decrease so that liberty can increase?  Much of our doctrines in the mainline churches have been based on men that had a spiritual experience but blended the experience in with natural reasoning and brought us to great cathedrals packed full of people that have no depth of relationship, but are most effecient at quoting the Bible and isolating the very ones they're supposedly saving.

That's your opinion that they have no depth of relationship and that anybody is isolated.  But it's not a reflection of the reality of the millions upon millions that are walking free of their former selves and are ruling with Christ day by day with the Written Word of God and when Christ who is their life being revealed with each revelation, then they're also appearing with Him in glory.

Dealing with the fact that my mind may not be as impressive as I've convinced myself that it is, is not a pretty experience, but it's a necessary one that I must address if I really want to experience the radical grace of God through Christ.  I believe it is very much connected with the fire baptism . . . everything in me that does not identify with Light and Life must be washed in the lake.  Every doctrine, philosophy, every thought.  To take it into captivity is to cast it into the lake.  Not easy, not comfortable and I don't like it at all.  Pride stiffens up at the thought of submission to anyone or any thing . . .but pride is what manifests offenses.  And offensives between one and another is the manifestation of pride.

Simply put on the new man and the mind of Christ.  Walk by the Word.

So many people have literally violently killed others . . .all in the name of peace.  Is it "peace" that brings the warring?  Or is it my own mind that violently reacts to the very idea that my conclusions are not accurate?  This is why I now say, it's not about who's right or wrong . .but it's about who's at "one"?

If nobody's right or wrong, then Christ died in vain.  That's total unitarianism you've said with that.  Those that have literally violently killed others won't see life, but the wrath of God abides on them until the consummation.  They'll pass through the lake of fire judgment after the resurrection and be executed.  And then at the conclusion of the reign of Christ on the New Earth, then they'll be delivered up to the Father totally made alive in Him.  Each in His own order, but all according to the Written Word of God and whether or not we purge ourselves according to Luke 24, Acts 17, Acts 20, 2Timothy 2, 2Corinthians 7, and 1John 1.

[martincisneros]

But if you see a question as a clash of perspectives or a recipe for arguing then there is no need to continue.
You win.

Yup! Sad, isn't it?

[Nathan]

Martin, all you've done is prove my point . . .your implication that it's sad that I feel what I feel is essentially raising yourself above me to justify your own opinions.

I have not condemned or belittled, but yet your own posts seem to do just that.  I share what I see . . .and I'll try to clarify things the best I can, but when it's clear that we "are" seeing things from different points of view then the best we can to is labor to either move forward without carrying offense against each other, or discontinue the forum, I choose the former which I'm sure you do as well. 

I wrote what I wrote because that's where I'm at right now with it.  People can take it or leave it.  I won't defend it, I again, just simply share what I see.  If I dissected your posts as you did mine, we'd never get off this thread.  I read what you write, take what I can, leave what I can't, share what I see and try to move on.  Be sad if you want, but it's again, your choice to do so.


I've read your comments on Revelation and most of what you share is still not dealing with the inner man, but the outer population . .and that is one of the major reasons why we see things so differently.  So to try to argue each point really isn't going to profit much.

And we also completely disagree on the idea that "you can break any carnal addiction in a matter of days".  And even if one "did" that doesn't mean that there aren't other areas in one's life that also need to be purged and purified.  It's not a one-time event, but it's a process we must experience. 

Another major difference between us is the assessing who is "right or wrong".  For me, there is right and there is wrong . . .but for me to exercise my interpretation of which is which in another is where I choose not to go.  There is no winning or losing . . .at least that's not the intent.  I share because I enjoy reading what God shows others and many things they say and I hope others feel the same about what I put out there as well.  I don't post to win or to prove. 

I don't see at all how you connect Christ dying in vain with me judging what's right and wrong.  Frankly, I see it just the opposite . . .if I retain the right to dictate what is right or wrong, then Christ died in vain.  If Grace over extends my own faults and redeems me back to God himself, then why would I think that this same Grace doesn't do the same work in others?  Why would I need to establish what's right and what's wrong in others if I embrace the Grace given to me?

[martincisneros]

I don't think you understood a word of what I said. I never judge. I bring up the Scriptures on something when something isn't squaring with me, simply wishing for it to be pointed out to me from those very Scriptures. Not your fault. Nobody's ever, ever understood anything I write, in any context, here or elsewhere, or about anything: whether dear to the heart, abstract, or with regards to the Cosmos. I honestly stopped judging when I got everywhere that I was ever trying to get. I've already finished the race and kept the faith. I've already acheived the whole will of God for my life. It's all already complete in my life and completely clear. I'm already finished with everywhere that I was heading. My life is complete and my heart is content. I'm at rest. From the bottom of my heart, things have honestly never, ever been clearer.

[Taffy]

Hi Nate :icon_flower:
Each to their own bud :icon_flower:

But For mine I too see much related to the inner man ..being around Tent for so many sea\sons, this threads come about a few times... :icon_flower:

nothing much too add that hasnt been mentioned before, and also by others who see this attached to the inner man...

Hope your Wife is well on the road to recovery bro..sorry to hear of the OP,knowing in part thats why youve been away. :HeartThrob:
Blessings
T :icon_flower:

[IceDash]

I don't think you understood a word of what I said. I never judge. I bring up the Scriptures on something when something isn't squaring with me, simply wishing for it to be pointed out to me from those very Scriptures. Not your fault. Nobody's ever, ever understood anything I write, in any context, here or elsewhere, or about anything: whether dear to the heart, abstract, or with regards to the Cosmos. I honestly stopped judging when I got everywhere that I was ever trying to get. I've already finished the race and kept the faith. I've already acheived the whole will of God for my life. It's all already complete in my life and completely clear. I'm already finished with everywhere that I was heading. My life is complete and my heart is content. I'm at rest. From the bottom of my heart, things have honestly never, ever been clearer.

That's because God said so, not you, you don't make peace within you or make your life complete, only God.

[sparrow]

Nathan...

Keep on keepin' on good brother.

I hear ya and understand you, COMPLETELY.

I also agree with most everything you've said.

peace to you, bro....

sparrow

[Taffy]

little Bird..wheres those flowers???   :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

:HeartThrob:

[sparrow]

Oops... I forgot!!


Here ya go, Nathan..


:icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

:laughing7:  :Sparkletooth:

[Taffy]

 :icon_flower:
Way to go Little Bird.... :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

:icon_flower: