I'm curious (Gary Amirault)

[Gary Amirault]

I'm curious how many regulars here would feel comfortable with their knowledge in answering a video like the one below.

http://www.youtube.com/SO4JTVandVideo

Would someone please watch the video and collect the scriptures this author used to support his/her view that even Christians are qualified to go to Hell. Collect all verses he/she uses to support many going to Hell and send it to me via email.

[Raggedy Anne]

I will give it a go.   I really, really hate that video!   :sigh:

[Tim B]

Well, couldn't you just ask her this:

If God is the Savior of ALL men, especially (but not exclusively) of those that believe (which summarizes the entirety of the human race), then how can ANY be lost?

If any are lost, then God isn't their savior, and so, logically: he ISN'T the Savior of ALL mankind OR the world.

(You can't be a savior unless you actually save what you're claiming to be the savior of.)

[peacemaker]

"A dramatic work intended for performance, based on false themes."

peacemaker

[rosered]

  Hi Gary  , and all
well the  only thing I found  was  in Rev
about the last day church or the church of the Laodiceans  being  1) to vomit, vomit forth, throw up  out of Christ  mouth ,  they were in His Body and were   thrown up  or fourth from   Him
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 
  I dont even know if it is  relevant  or not  :dontknow:

and Paul saying  after he had preached the gospel   be a  castaway / disqualified 

   I am not sure about this , but its the only verses that pertain to being  Christian  and loosing out 
I could be very wrong though , I am not sure
  :HeartThrob:  rose

[jabcat]

I see it as rewards/position of "honor"/responsibility in the Kingdom vs. "losing" salvation. 

"...for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."  Romans 11:29

God's blessing, James.

[legoman]

This video is kind of sick, it is more like a horror film preying on innocent victims.  At one point, one of the characters says to "God":

"I thought you were a loving God?!?"

I guess not according to the makers of these videos.  The video shows some of the ten commandments and then shows that if you break that commandment, you will go into the lake of fire (thou shalt not murder -> if you hate you are a murderer -> all murderers go to lake of fire -> therefore everyone's going to hell!  Yay!)

They even blatantly change some scripture ie. Matt 7:13 'Wide is the gate to hell', instead of 'Wide is the gate to destruction'.

Their main focus seems to be Matt 7:21-23 "not everyone enters the Kingdom of Heaven" and 1 Cor 6:9-10 "murderers, liars, adulterers, etc. will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven".  This is one point that we universalists, as defenders of the truth, should be careful on.  I also believe not everyone will inherit the Kingdom, but I believe the Kingdom is talking about the Kingdom reign with Christ.  Not everyone will reign with Christ.  But Christ's reign ends and then eventually all will be alive and God will be all in all.  Seth's page at mercifultruth (http://www.mercifultruth.com/links-chosenkingdom.htm) covers this well I think.

Of course they twist these verses and assume Kingdom = heaven, and "not in the Kingdom" = hell.

They use unscriptural phrases like "God's eternal wrath in hell".  No where you will find that phrase in the bible, in fact scripture tells us God's wrath will end.  Another one:  "The highway to Hell is broad" (Matt 7:13).  Is that actually translated like that in any bible version?!?  Crazy stuff.  In some of their other videos they just repeat this stuff verbatim.  Repeat it enough and it is the truth, don't bother to read what scripture actually says I guess.


Here are some more of the verses they use.  Pretty standard stuff to debunk.  Most of it out of context...

Matt 7:21-23

1 Cor 6:9-10

2 Tim 3:1-5

Romans 2:5

Heb 9:27

Rev 21:27

Rev 20:11-12

Exodus 20:16

Rev 21:8

James 4:4

Exodus 20:15

Mark 7:21-23

1 Cor 6:9-10

Luke 6:46

Exodus 20:14

Matt 5:28

1 Cor 6:9-10

1 John 3:8

Exodus 20:13

Rev 21:8

Mark 7:7-8

Romans 3:23

2 Thes 1:7-9

Rev 20:15

Luke 13:5


Many of these verses have nothing to do with "hell", and are simply commands, or simply describing God's righteous judgment.

OH NO - RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT? We are all going to HELL!   :sigh:

These types of videos really disturb me as they plainly are trying to terrorize people.  At one point in the video they show people falling down a fiery wormhole landing in a literal lake of fire, screaming and being terrorized.  Christian Horror films at its finest.  Disgusting.  This type of video may get a few "converts" (those who are vulnerable or living in fear), but usually it just leads to people laughing at Christiainity and they use it as proof that God doesn't exist, because no God would do these things.


"I thought you were a loving God?!" indeed.


Hope this helps Gary, I don't know if you are planning on contacting them or not - but I may leave a few comments in their youtube account.  Be well...

[CrossoverManiac]

It was sickening watching that video.  If we are saved by faith and not good works, how come people has to be absolutely perfect to get into Heaven?!?  I guess those people never repented of their sins before they died.  Oh love how they bashed the Catholic guy at the end.  I bet they had an orgasm at the thought of that Papist Mary-worshipper burning in Hell just like Karla Faye Tucker did when she murdered her victims.

[CrossoverManiac]

They're claiming that if you're not exactly like them, you are a lukewarm Christian i.e. a false Christian, because, as they teach, true Christians don't sin.  This is far from the truth.  Peter was a apostle of Jesus yet denied him three times.  Paul and Barnabas had a falling out.  Christians were rebuked in the New Testaments many times, but they were still Christians.  There are lukewarm Christians out there and I have been lukewarm in my faith at times, but what they're advocating is a salvation by works/perfection while paying lip service to salvation by faith.

[eaglesway]

    Because they do not understand remedial punishment, they have no other way to understand the scripture. I recently had this debate with some one over the first 6 chapters of Hebrews. I was trying to explain that the context is entering the promises, fruitfulness, partaking of the powers of the age to come and walking in the finished work, ceasing from our own works, etc.- entering full new testament Christianity vs "falling in the wilderness" due to unbelief, hardness of heart(the word they heard did not profit them because it was not united in their hearts with faith)- failing to apprehend that which we are apprehended for in this life as a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. I don't think it is possible to break through that deception without a clear definition of fire and discipline. They could not see it. They are so afraid of "HELL" themselves(or so full of self-righteousness) they are afraid even to reexamine their position.
   If someone could work up a streamlined scriptural presentation of the fire of God, the disciplines of God(Saul/David, Esau/Jacob, Eli/Samuel) and falling short (missing the mark) of His purposes for overcomers/sons in the present and coming age, maybe that would be the most effective route. And I continue to say that Ephesians 1 and Colossians 1 are the strongest answer to all these proponents of annihilation and eternal torment. What, being annihilated or in torment, can be reconciled to God or summed up in Christ!
   If their are seeking, or open hearts listening to the debate- they need to see the alternative(real) scriptural understanding to the position they are examining- and see the shallowness and misdirection of the "fire breathers".

[jsteppjr7]

This is the same kind of fear mongering garbage that i was indoctrinated with as a young kid.  This is the same kind of garbage that turns people off to Christianity!

Completely disgusting!!

It reminds me of a joke;
A teacher says to all the kids in the class "everyone who wants to go to heaven, raise your hand".
All the kids raise their hands except little Johnny... The teacher says "Johnny, don't you want to go to heaven?"
Johnny says "Yes i want to go to heaven... just not with that bunch."

When non believers think of Christianity, they often see people like the makers of this video...and want no part of it.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

So many things come to mind here.. scare tactics...terrorism.....a "God" that has failed...an angry politician....people who feel a strong need to be in control...

Love to all (including this "god" who seems to have a hard time forgiving...)
Brian

[whyiloveitaly.com]

What gets me is that these "believers" THINK that they are somehow "spiritually discerning" and "hating the sin" when all they are doing is hating their neighbor. They're on a type of spiritual acid trip.
They talk about "loving their neighbor" but they don't care at all about forgiving or doing good. The only ones they are fooling are themselves and they don't get it!!
They think that they have "spiritual eyes to see" when all they are doing is judging other people! There's nothing spiritual about that at all!
They don't understand that God the Creator and Father of Lights is able to change man's heart. Man can't do it but God can. But they don't believe!

The TRUE war on terrorism is fighting against the way Christendom has made out God to be no more than an angry politician who uses threats to get followers! They want to feel in control and are GLAD to think about people going to hell. I KNOW this because I used to be part of it. It's just a spiritual acid trip and they're the only ones believing it! That's why no one's converting--because they see it for what it is: threats, need for control and hatred.

Yes, I'm finished.
Love to all,
Brian

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Oh, sorry I forgot! One more thing: Jesus said that "you will be hated by all men for my name's sake." So, as our "believer friend" starts judging and condemning people for their sins, voilà! They start hating him! Wow! They consider that "walking in the Spirit!" Just start judging people until they hate you, then you become a saint!

Ok, now I'm REALLY finished..
Brian