Friends of ours who have failed the "Hell test" of Gary Amirault

[B_T]

Hello, do you have people you know who have failed these tests:

http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/FromHellsEternalDeath.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hell_test.html

I know a friend of mine, called George who failed the first argument:



•  If Hell as a place of everlasting tortures was the real fate of all mankind unless they did something here on earth to prevent it, why didn't God make that warning plain right at the beginning of the Bible? God said the penalty for eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was DEATH. He did NOT define death as eternal life being forever tortured in burning fire and brimstone.


My friend just said that there was no need right there to speak about hell in the beginning :) But BECAUSE it's in the New Testament we have to believe it :)

[martincisneros]

In other words "Bah! Humbug!"

[shibboleth]

My friend just said that there was no need right there to speak about hell in the beginning :) But BECAUSE it's in the New Testament we have to believe it :)

Well, no disrespect to your friend, but he hasn't studied it out or else he wouldn't say that. I know people who refuse to study it out and I just figure they are either scared hellfire might not be true  and they will have to leave their hellfire church, or, they just don't care. I would ask your friend why the most important question we  have is where do I go at death. Now, if hell was in the OT days and God said nothing about it, wasn't God being deceptive to people? How could God warn them about everything that would happen to them on earth and ignore the place where you spend eternity? If there is no hellfire in the old covn't, then I would rather be there than in the hellfire new covenant.

[meerkat]

I think what keeps some back from believing that there is not eternal hellfire is that they have been taught and believed that lie, but also we are warned that there will be deception and also consequences for being deceived, then they can't make the leap of faith to accept the truth. Maybe people take it for granted that what seems to be original teaching from their perspective is the truth, then anybody that brings another doctrine, like UR is wrong, they don't realise how early the false doctrines were introduced into the church (even though Paul was warning about it when he was teaching the gospel) Then apparently God sends delusion because they would not believe the truth. Then also they think that we believe "the lie"  and are deluded and will suffer the consequences.



   

[jabcat]

Really good points by everyone. It seems to me that we are to share the Good News, and some may believe it (if that's the vehicle God uses to lift the veil on their eyes), while others may not, because it's not their time to see truth.  God hides and veils, reveals and unveils as He sees fit.  However, Paul said "Jesus, savior of all men...charge these things and teach"...so it's ours to proclaim, God's to give belief.  I personally have been feeling like God wants me to share UR to the pastor of the church from which I just resigned, a big ET congregation...to be honest, I'm afraid to do so...although I realize it's wrong to be this way, I think I'm afraid of what he might think and say about me, then how I'll be perceived.   :mfrown:. 

[jenna]

Hello, do you have people you know who have failed these tests:

http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/FromHellsEternalDeath.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hell_test.html

I know a friend of mine, called George who failed the first argument:



•  If Hell as a place of everlasting tortures was the real fate of all mankind unless they did something here on earth to prevent it, why didn't God make that warning plain right at the beginning of the Bible? God said the penalty for eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was DEATH. He did NOT define death as eternal life being forever tortured in burning fire and brimstone.


My friend just said that there was no need right there to speak about hell in the beginning :) But BECAUSE it's in the New Testament we have to believe it :)

You may need to tell your friend that there is not a single verse in the N.T. that supports the ET "hell". The punishment in both the O.T. and the N.T. is the same--DEATH.

[martincisneros]

I personally have been feeling like God wants me to share UR to the pastor of the church from which I just resigned, a big ET congregation...to be honest, I'm afraid to do so...although I realize it's wrong to be this way, I think I'm afraid of what he might think and say about me, then how I'll be perceived.   :mfrown:. 

Praying for you.  I've been hinting at the leadership of the Church that I've been attending for just under a year with frequent irregularity that I believe certain things from more indepth studies of the Word that they might not necessarily find the least bit cool :laughing7:

A couple of the members of the Church might be UR, though, as well as acquainted with online expressions of UR 'cause they were grinnin' kinda hard when I joined [beyond the normal Church growth thing] and they briefly said something to me, in passing, that they wouldn't have known about me without some internet acquaintance.

Hmmm.... 3 verses 300....

we can take 'em :laughing7:

Hmmm... how to separate friends of ours from the Hellangelism they've succumbed to, and from thought patters that cause them to fail the "Hell test."

Gehenna is simply every idle word, false doctrine, and careless word that afflicts body and soul, child, and disciple.  Jesus said that it would be better to be overtaken by the evil designs of a terrorist than to have body and soul destroyed by those with false doctrines, or to have a child or disciple destroyed by such doctrines.

Hades is simply the New Testament equivalent of the grave (Sheol) mentioned in the Old Testament.

Tartarus is simply the state of bondage that fallen angels are in until they pass through the redemptive flames of 1Corinthians 5 at the resurrection.  For those not catching on to where I got that, the Matthew 25 passage of sheep and goats is a distinction solely on the basis of works, and those whose works have been less than ideal or atrocious will have to go through the fire prepared for the devil and his angels -- which would make this fire prepared for the devil and his angels the equivalent of the fire prepared for mankind in 1Corinthians 5.  So, Tartarus is simply the state of bondage for sinful works, works that are less than ideal, and sexual sin according to Jude's epistle, and perhaps 2Peter if I remember correctly.

Tartarus is the burning of your deeds and works, while Gehenna is the burning of your words that are less than Biblically covenant of redemption related.  Or it's the process of being burned by them, because it's the city dump stage of a deceived life.

And Hades is just a fancy Greek word for where your body rots until resurrection day.

And where's the eternal torture chamber supposed to be located again??

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:

[Average_Bear]

•  If Hell as a place of everlasting tortures was the real fate of all mankind unless they did something here on earth to prevent it, why didn't God make that warning plain right at the beginning of the Bible? God said the penalty for eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was DEATH. He did NOT define death as eternal life being forever tortured in burning fire and brimstone.

This has to be the strongest argument against eternal hell. Thousands of years of human history and not a hint of eternal punishment after death. Then, after four hundred years of silence, come the very first inspired words of our New Testament: "Holy Glad Tidings According to Matthew". If ET is a new teaching of the New Testament, wouldn't it be the "Good News and the Really, Really Bad News"?

[jenna]

The strongest arguement against ET (IMO) is actually John 3:16. "For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on Him should not perish but have everlasting life". Many use this verse to substantiate ET, but if they truly read it for what it is saying, they will see how perishing is in contrast to everlasting life. If there were such a thing as ET, the verse would make no sense at all and would actually be contradicting itself! The ones in ET would actually also have "eternal life" in hell! :happy3: