Everlasting Destruction

[Tim B]

I liked these notes on the idea of "everlasting destruction" from the article/book Bible Threatenings Explained:

EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION

"Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power."--II Thessalonians i:6-9

Who were troubling the Christians of the Thessalonican Church? We are told in Acts xvii:5-8, that their persecutors were the Jews.

"But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people. And they troubled the people, and the rulers of the city, when they heard these things."

Also, I Thess. ii:14-15: "For ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen....Who have killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us."

When were they persecuted? In a few years from that time:

"For the son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."--Matt. xvi:27-28.


PRESENCE OF THE LORD

How were they banished from the "presence of the Lord?" "The presence of the Lord" is a form of expression denoting God's approbation. Such is its usage in the Bible. "Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden." Gen. iv:16. "Jonah rose up to flee into Tarshish, from the presence of the Lord, and went down to Joppa." Jonah i:3 "My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest." Exodus xxxiii:14.

In the former years when the Jews were captive in Babylon, they were cast out of the presence of the Lord. II KIngs xxiv:20.

So when, during that generation, the Jews were overwhelmed, they went into everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord. Long before these very terms had been applied to them as a people, and to their sorrows in this world.

"Therefore, behold I, even I will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you, and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence; and I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame which shall not be forgotten."--Jer. xxiii:39-40

A similar doom was visited upon them when they were again overwhelmed, before the death of some who were then living. (Matt. xvi:2-28. Matt. xxiv) Was this everlasting destruction without end, and final? Paul expressly says not. "For if the casting away of them (the Jews) be the reconciling of the world, (the Gentiles) what shall the receieving of them be but life from the dead." Rom. xi:15. "Blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in; and so all Israel shall be saved." Rom. xi:25-26. "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." Rom. xi:32

The Commentator, Gill, says: "'And to you who are troubled rest with us;' this is another branch of the justice of God, in rendering to them who are afflicted and persecuted for righteousness sake, rest; a relaxation or rest from persecutions, for a while, at least; as the churches of Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had, from that persecution, raised at the death of Stephen, (Acts ix:31) and as the Christians had, at the destruction of Jerusalem; which, though it was a day of vengeance to the unbelieving Jews, were times of refreshing to the saints, who were now delivered from their persecutors."

Thus the word everlasting connected with destruction denoted limited duration, for it is followed by restoration. The word destruction denotes sometimes annihilation, Matt. v:17, "I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill;" I John iii:8, "Might destroy the works of the devil;" Hos. xiii:14, "O grave, I will be thy destruction;" I Cor. v:5, "Deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus," that is, the mortification or subjection of the fleshly propensities, etc. Sometimes it indicates tribulation as Ps. xc:3. "Thou turnest man to destruction;" Hos. iv:6, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge;" and xiii:9, "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thy help.'


BANISHED FROM GOD'S PRESENCE

The following extract from Balfour's Second Inquiry presents this subject correctly:

"By the presence of God, or presence of the Lord, in scripture, is sometimes meant his being everywhere present. Thus, David says, Ps. cxxxix:8, 'If I ascend up into heaven thou art there; if I make my bed in hell (sheol), behold, thou art there,' etc. Admitting for argument's sake, that hell is a place of endless punishment, how could the wicked even there be out of God's presence? Yet, in II Thess. i:9, the Jews are said to be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord. Again; I find the phrase presence of the Lord, refers to heaven, or the dwelling-place of the Most High. Christ is said to have gone 'into heaven now to appear in the presence of God for us.' Heb. ix:24. And it is said, Luke i:19, 'I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God.' But how could the wicked be punished with everlasting destruction from God's presence in this sense? For surely no one will say that they were in heaven, and like Gabriel stood in the presence of God.

"But there are still some passages which deserve our particular notice, because they clearly decide what is the meaning of the phrase, presence of the Lord. The first is, II Kings xiii:24, 'And the Lord was gracious unto them, and had compassion on them, because of his covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and would not destroy them, neither cast them from his presence as yet.' This was spoken of the Jews; and just notice, that God speaks of destroying them, and casting them from his presence. What he here says. thatas yet, he would not do to this people, in the following passage we find that he did do. II Kings xxiv:20, 'For through the anger of the Lord it came to pass in Jerusalem and Judah, until he had cast them out from his presence, that Zedekiah rebelled against the king of Babylon.' God's presence was enjoyed by the Jews in Judea, and in their temple service. To be cast out of God's presence, is to be banished form Judea into captivity, and from all the privileges which the Jews enjoyed in their land, and temple worship. This was the same as destroying them. They were thus destroyed or cast out of God's presence for seventy years in their captivity at Babylon. But they were brought back from this captivity, and again enjoyed God's presence in their own land. At the time Paul wrote the words in Thessalonians, the time was drawing near when they were to be again cast out of God's presence, and dispersed among all nations. Paul adopts the very language of the above passages, used in speaking of their former captivity, to describe the judgments of God which awaited them in their being cast out of their land, their city and temple destroyed, and they destroyed with an everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord. The Jews now are just as certainly destroyed from the presence of the Lord, as they were during the seventy years' captivity in Babylon. How, them, can any man affirm that Paul meant, by this phrase, either annihilation or endless misery? If the Scriptures are allowed to interpret themselves, Paul only describes the temporal destruction and banishment of the Jews, and in the very language by which the prophets had described their former punishments. It is added by the apostle, 'and from the glory of his power;' or, as some render it, 'his glorious power.' Should this be understood of Jehovah, the God of Israel, it is certain his glorious power was displayed among the Jews. Should it be understood of Christ, it agrees with what is said of him; for at the destruction of Jerusalem he is said to have come in the glory of his Father; and he was then seen coming with power and great glory. Matt. xvi:27, and xxiv:30."

I highlighted the part at the end because I thought it was the most interesting part.

The more I read about Bible threatenings, the more it seems that all the threats are made to people IN THIS life. Any thoughts of after-life punishment seem to be near non-existent in both the Old and New Testaments. But we do get the promise that God will destroy death AND Hades, AND bring ALL men to vivification and life in Christ.  :bigGrin:

[Redlettervoice]

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Interesting.........what is times of refreshing for one .......might be.........
...........

As Paul prayed, "pray that I can be delivered from those that do not
believe for all men do not believe........"

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Good article.........when I first came to the Lord I asked Him about hell, and He defined it as being separated from Him, and stated that there were plenty walking around in shoe leather that were separated from Him.

Sorta goes with the concept here of being separated from the presence of the Lord, doesn't it?

Also, years ago, He told me to remove myself from a particular hard-headed person's life. He said He was withdrawing His Spirit from them in judgment. I puzzled over what this could mean, knowing that He never leaves us nor forsakes us, and He said; "I'm withdrawing My Spirit IN YOU from their presence."

The way He looks at things, and the way we look at things, are completely different. Blessings....

[Redlettervoice]

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Cardinal

Also, years ago, He told me to remove myself from a particular hard-headed person's life. He said He was withdrawing His Spirit from them in judgment. I puzzled over what this could mean, knowing that He never leaves us nor forsakes us, and He said; "I'm withdrawing My Spirit IN YOU from their presence."

I see that.  Sorta like coming out of Babylon, isn't it? I mean, she'd
have no life if all the saints of God came OUT! In her was the blood
of all the saints, etc. and the LIFE is in the blood..........

Come OUT so you won't receive of her plagues...........

And Lot had to "come out" of Sodom before God could do anything.

All so similar isn't it?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes.......it sure is. Blessings....

[rosered]

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Cardinal

Also, years ago, He told me to remove myself from a particular hard-headed person's life. He said He was withdrawing His Spirit from them in judgment. I puzzled over what this could mean, knowing that He never leaves us nor forsakes us, and He said; "I'm withdrawing My Spirit IN YOU from their presence."

I see that.  Sorta like coming out of Babylon, isn't it? I mean, she'd
have no life if all the saints of God came OUT! In her was the blood
of all the saints, etc. and the LIFE is in the blood..........

Come OUT so you won't receive of her plagues...........

And Lot had to "come out" of Sodom before God could do anything.

All so similar isn't it?

  wow Just read this !   just more confirmation sis LOL GOD IS SOOOOOOOOO  GOOD , thanks for the reminder saints/ holy ones !!
  amen Cardinal  !!! Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 

  and the Blood / Life 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 
Jhn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 

and the Last Day is the First day of the ''rest of your Life'' !! Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 


Hbr 4:7   Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 


Hbr 4:8   For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 


Hbr 4:9   There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 

[sven]

very interesting  :thumbsup:

[Doc]

The more I go along, the more I'm coming to the opinion that most (not all) of the things that we tend to regard as eschatological warnings are really meant to be applied to this life in perhaps a more spiritual sense, rather than at an afterlife judgment scenario (not to say that they won't have some visible, physical outworkings).

[Tim B]

The more I go along, the more I'm coming to the opinion that most (not all) of the things that we tend to regard as eschatological warnings are really meant to be applied to this life in perhaps a more spiritual sense, rather than at an afterlife judgment scenario (not to say that they won't have some visible, physical outworkings).

Same here man, same here! I think it's incredibly probable that literally every single "threatening" by Jesus was a warning about the coming destruction of Jerusalem and the cost people would suffer if they continued within the Law and trying to obtain their own righteousness rather than accepting God's love and his son. I mean, the Pharisees lost EVERYTHING at the siege of Jerusalem by the Romans. Their temple was destroyed, their way of living was destroyed, their lives were destroyed, and their psyche (their very identity) was destroyed.

As far as any sort of after-life punishment, I'm not so sure. I hold it as plausible that there could be an after-life correction for certain people, but even that I'm not so sure on. And as far as "judgements" they could simply be the evaluations of each person's life after they die (if there is any after life judgement). They would see how their ways were not the ways of love.

Sorry if that's mumbled. My words didn't come out too gracefully. xD

[WhiteWings]

It is surely a significant fact, that the two words used in Hebrew to express destruction, signify also, and are used to express, perfection; and that the word for a sacrifice by fire in Hebrew is the same as that for a bride or wife; e.g. Numbers xxviii. 6. By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God's purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord. For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. vii. 9,10.) they also are as fire; as it is written, "He makes His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire." (Heb. i. 7, and Psalm civ. 4.)

--J. Preston Eby