A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed." [Jer. 13:14; 48:10]

[Nancy]

Hi there Molly,
If God had enemies, then He would be divided against Himself. How can God be divided?
God IS love not God loves'.  God IS LOVE!!!  And love CANNOT have enemies. We don't understand the language that the bible was written in or what was meant by that comment.  But if God can have enemies, then why did Christ say love your enemies. You cannot love anyone whom you perceive to be an enemy.  I believe Christ was saying 'See nobody as an enemy then you will love them.

Godbless
Nancy

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Then what would be the point in loving enemies Nancy? 
Even sinners love those who love them.
I can assure you this...God has enemies!
I mean, they crucified Jesus, calling him an enemy for starters!

The challenge is to love our enemies.
You said "you cant love someone who you perceive as an enemy".
Well, maybe you can't...But you are supposed to!

Hmmm ive read a few of your posts and i disagree with most of what you say, but thanks for your input none the less, but its very unbiblical from what i can see.

[jesushandsarekindhands]

hi there,

I'm not disagreeing that ALL things happen for a purpose and usually at times of crisis, people realise what is important in life.  So if anything brings you closer to God, it is a good thing.
But i'm starting to believe that as God is within us at all times, surely it is WE who are resisting God blessings, not the other way round.
As reFORMer says, man allows the ego to be king and it believes God has enemies that need to be conquered.  How could God have any enemies?

But jesushandsarekindhands, everybody believes that their scriptures are the right ones and that they are divinely inspired and i personally believe that all scriptures have come from the divine, but why this insistence that only your particular belief system is the right one.
Truth is truth and God doesn't change with a particular belief.  He can't!
But i don't need the bible to be perfect as i can look at nature and within to know what God is and what He is not.

Godbless
Nancy

Does nature show you a good God?  Or is it to you evidence of the destructive power of sin?
Do you find it nice when a lion rips into a wildebeast and see an all loving God behind it or nice when a child is born with no arms or legs or with a disease?  Im just curious.  The bible hints and why these things go on.

Nature shows me that something is far wrong in the world and the Bible gives the answer.

I also believe the Bible to be the only word of God because i believe mankind needs a saviour and by works (ourselves) 'we can do nothing' as our goodness is filthy rags before God....Quite a big difference from other religions really.

[Zeek]

Then what would be the point in loving enemies Nancy? 
Even sinners love those who love them.
I can assure you this...God has enemies!
I mean, they crucified Jesus, calling him an enemy for starters!

The challenge is to love our enemies.
You said "you cant love someone who you perceive as an enemy".
Well, maybe you can't...But you are supposed to!

Hmmm ive read a few of your posts and i disagree with most of what you say, but thanks for your input none the less, but its very unbiblical from what i can see.

Rom 11:28  As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

[Zeek]

Col 1:21  And you, being in time past alienated and enemies in your mind in your evil works,

[jesushandsarekindhands]

"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son." -- Romans 5:10

Col. 1:21. "The carnal mind is enmity against God," Rom. 8:7

Matthew
Love for Enemies
43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


God has enemies but loves them, and we are to do the same, i don't see what is so hard to grasp about that.  If there were no enemies to love, what would we be doing more than 'the tax collectors' and 'pagans'.

You can't say that someone who tries to stab you, rape your mother and shoot your dog isn't an enemy.  They ARE an enemy, but we are still to reach out in love...That is the greatness of God (love).

[jesushandsarekindhands]

 :boyheart:

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Hi there Molly,
If God had enemies, then He would be divided against Himself. How can God be divided?
God IS love not God loves'.  God IS LOVE!!!  And love CANNOT have enemies. We don't understand the language that the bible was written in or what was meant by that comment.  But if God can have enemies, then why did Christ say love your enemies. You cannot love anyone whom you perceive to be an enemy.  I believe Christ was saying 'See nobody as an enemy then you will love them.

Godbless
Nancy

Jesus didn't say "Dont see your enemies as an enemy, because you CANT love an enemy".

He said "Love your enemies".

That's good enough for me, because when people start to distort scripture and say
"This is what i think Jesus meant"..
.. before we know it we have a world that believes in a lunatic who burns people in flames forever. 

Scripture says what it says, and we should accept it.

[Zeek]

"Having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself;

Col 1:20 

[Zeek]

For your consideration.  Blessings.

http://sigler.org/seed1.htm

[Zeek]

"He has broken down the middle wall of partition between us, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of two, (the Jew, the Gentile, the saved the lost), one new man so making peace. And that He might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross."

[Zeek]

2Co 5:16  Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

[Zeek]

IMO, to be "born again" is to have a totally new identity, and even a new concept about who you are; not a change in God's view of me.  but a Waking up to WHO I AM. 


"Awake you who are sleeping. Arise from the dead, and Christ shall shine on you." Ephesians 5:14

The mind of Christ,

I and the FATHER (ABBA) are one. 


"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross; having spoiled principalities and powers, He made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in the cross.

2Co 10:5  Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

[Zeek]

"This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart" (Eph. 4:17-18).

[Nancy]

hi,

As you rightly say,  'before we know it we have a world that believes a lunatic is going to burn everyone in flames forever'.  Forever being the operative word, because in the bible, it has been grossly distorted as are others words. 

How could a HEBREW AND ARAMAIC language be translated properly into English with all its nuances.  We have trouble understanding people of different nations today, never mind over 2 thousand years ago.  And also what Jesus says in the new testament is hardly anything than what He taught His disciples in secret.  Christ even said that there are things that cannot be taught to the masses because they wouldn't understand it.

Jesus spoke on 2 levels.  One for the people and one for the initiated/disciples.

I totally respect that you don't agree with my views.

Brilliant post though. You are getting us all to think!
Godbless
Nancy

[jesushandsarekindhands]

hi,

As you rightly say,  'before we know it we have a world that believes a lunatic is going to burn everyone in flames forever'.  Forever being the operative word, because in the bible, it has been grossly distorted as are others words. 

How could a HEBREW AND ARAMAIC language be translated properly into English with all its nuances.  We have trouble understanding people of different nations today, never mind over 2 thousand years ago.  And also what Jesus says in the new testament is hardly anything than what He taught His disciples in secret.  Christ even said that there are things that cannot be taught to the masses because they wouldn't understand it.

Jesus spoke on 2 levels.  One for the people and one for the initiated/disciples.

I totally respect that you don't agree with my views.

Brilliant post though. You are getting us all to think!
Godbless
Nancy

Nancy, i know 'forever' was mistranslated, that kind of proves my point about what happens when people try to make the Bible say something it doesnt say.

When a passage clearly says "Love your enemies' however, there is no other way to read it, it is very clear to me.

[jesushandsarekindhands]

"Having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself;

Col 1:20 

Yes God made peace, it does not say his 'enemies' have accepted that peace, they are still enemies therefore God has enemies just like I have enemies...I can't make them friends as hard as I can try, they will always be an enemy because they won't meet me halfway and it's the same with God, although I know that one day God will 'be all in all' and win his enemies over with his great love.

I have an enemy who hates everything about me. 
That person is convinced in their own mind that I am their enemy which i am not, i tried to be their friend and what they believe about me is completely wrong and comes from their own minds.
Nevertheless, until they realize that or admit that they were wrong about me, they will continue to be an 'enemy' or 'adversary' because they are 'working against me', not 'with' me, hence 'enemy', or 'at emnity'.
I don't want it to be that way, on the contrary i want this person as a friend more than anyone could ever know and have tried many times, but this person prefers to be an enemy because (dun dun dun...That person is evil).
I don't feel warm and fuzzy all over having to admit that, i wish it wasn't so, but it is so, and i have to accept that they will always be my enemy until they realize that i wasn't their enemy after all...They made me THEIR enemy.
In short, I'm reaching out and they are not, and if anyone ever asked that person what I was to them they would not hesitate in saying "HES AN ENEMY!!!!".

[jesushandsarekindhands]

For your consideration.  Blessings.

http://sigler.org/seed1.htm

I haven't got much time to read this today, but I have copied all the chapters onto my PC and will read it soon, from what i have read it looks spot on, thank you Zeek.

[Nancy]

hi,

Jesushandsarekindhands, that person can see YOU as an enemy (you cannot change their mind about you) but you can choose whether to see them as an enemy or not.
I believe Christ is saying when you don't have any enemies, it is easier to love 'them'.

Godbless
Nancy

[Nancy]

hi again Jesushandsarekindhands,

Forgive me.  I think i am misunderstanding you.
You are saying that there are people who are against God aren't you, not that God has got enemies, has got people He doesn't like!!

Sorry
Godbless
Nancy

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Hey Nancy no probs, its easy to misunderstand on forums, im the worlds worst for that.

i think you know what im saying now; in short - God loves everyone, but not everyone loves God. (At this present time).

[Nancy]

hi ya jesushandsarekindhands,

Yes i totally understand now (phew)!
But you know God is ok with that and we certainly don't have to defend Him as some 'religious' people think they have to.

Godbless
Nancy

[jesushandsarekindhands]

hi ya jesushandsarekindhands,

Yes i totally understand now (phew)!
But you know God is ok with that and we certainly don't have to defend Him as some 'religious' people think they have to.

Godbless
Nancy

Yes, i think God is completely able to defend himself!

[Seth]

"I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. A curse on him who is lax in doing the Lord's work! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed." [Jer. 13:14; 48:10]

Can anyone explain this?

There is another part in the Bible (which i cant find), but in my NIV (somewhere it says)

"Stone them to death! Be the first to stone them!".


Sometimes i just think about living a life of as much love as i can, and leaving the Bible far behind.

Hi JHAKH. My take is that when you stop seeing the sword as physical and start to see Spiritually what God is saying, then the words, while carnally understood by carnal people and therefore carnally fulfilled, take on a meaning more applicable to putting to death the "old man of sin" within us.

The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Those who see God's words with a carnal mind will see the complete reverse from what those who see those same words with a spiritual mind. That's my understanding on it for what it is worth.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  :thumbsup: