10 Plagues of Egypt.

[Nathan]

So are you saying to don't think the angel's were talking to the people standing there when they stated "just as you saw him go . . ." but that the angels were speaking to us?  Or are you saying that the angels were speaking to them spiritually, in that he will come to them inwardly and yet still come to this generation . . .or eventually, in the flesh again?  Or I should say are you thinking he'll come to us in the spirit as well as in the flesh?

For me, his purpose for coming in the flesh has been fulfilled and completed.  He, like us, or us, like he, we're not flesh-beings.  We are spirit beings who are temporarily manifesting in the realm of flesh.  He came in the flesh, redeemed flesh back to the Father and returned to the spirit that is his domain.  If we are going to put in imortality, which to me is going from flesh to spirit, if we are going "there" why would he have to return "here". 

The other piece to this was, at the last supper, he stated it was with GREAT desire that he desired to have this most intimate moment with them.  It was to be the last time he would minister in one body of flesh before being poured out "into" all flesh.  That promise could not be fulfilled as long as his spirit remained in his body of flesh.  But once the separation from flesh and spirit were complete through the ultimate sacrifice for man, his spirit was then able to be offered to and enter into all men. 

If that was the restraining factor, then how could he return once again in the flesh without reclaiming his spirit which is now in all men?  I'm thinking the need for being in the flesh was complete at the cross and rather than him manifesting in this lower realm again, he's taking us up to the higher realm instead.

[eaglesway]

I see what you are saying. In my view He is becoming the center of all things(we do not yet see all things subject to Him), both physical and spiritual, so I would say, I believe He has come to us in the spirit, having given us the pledge of the inheritance, a down-payment on the that which will be fulfilled at the manifestation of the sons of God. Also at which time the entire creation will be set free from futility into the glorious liberty of the sons of God, and at which time we will be "revealed with Him in glory" having received the "adoption as sons, even the redemption of our bodies". Unified with Him in the same state of resurrection.."we know not what we shall be, but when He appears we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is."

As I see it the veil that covers the nations will be removed at that time. Also the heavens and the earth will be made new as the fire that consumes the elemental principles will reveal the new heavens and new earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness",i.e. the word of the Lord will cover the earth as the water covers the sea. I believe of course this has already begun as the dawn, and it is continuing towards the full noon. Full noon is when we as sons have come into the fulness of the predestined purpose- conformed into the image of Christ, sons of glory and co-heirs. Even as the captain of our salvation was perfected through suffering, in bringing many sons to glory, we will reign with Him in the continuing "restitution of all things", if so be we have suffered with Him so that we may be glorified with Him. Those who have not overcome will lose their reward (overcomers promises), their souls will be saved but as passing through the flames. Paul saw through a glass darkly, I am not saying I have it all figured out, I am saying what I see at this time :dontknow:.

Isa 25:7  And He will destroy on this mountain the covering of the face that is cast over the heads of all peoples [in mourning], and the veil [of profound wretchedness] that is woven and spread over all nations. (amplified)

(Rom 8:19-25) For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

The mountain of the Lord is being exalted above all the other mountains. We have come to Zion and the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels and to the spirits of righteous men made perfect. I do not see these things in the simplistic physical way many evangelicals, fundamentalists and Pentecostals do, but I do believe there is that which is yet to be fulfilled as the little stone that was cut from the top of the mountain smashes into the feet of the systems of this world. I also see that their remain many "fulfillments to come" of that which was accomplished in the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Christ.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
(Eph 2:4-7)

They are all spiritual fulfillments, some will manifest physically- but all things are spiritual, all having been created, destroyed, redeemed and glorified- For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

[Nathan]

I'm in perfect harmony with everything you've just said there bro.  And for me, this new transformation that comes at the end of all things temporary, where the earth will be restored to her original state before she was affected by the curse of man and man will be restored to he original state before he left the garden.  We have a new heaven (vision of spiritual life) and a new earth (renewed mind) here and now through the salvation of Christ.  And we'll see a new heaven (atmosphere) and a new earth (duh . .earth) when all things are final and complete in Him.

Why is it still important to be saved if we believe in Ultimate Reconciliation?  Because only through Christ can we enter into that state of redemption here and now.  Only through Christ can we receive direct communication from the Father.  Only through Christ can we reproduce, which is fulfilling his original purpose from the garden, that we can reproduce after our own kind, which now is to reproduce Christ in others.

What is it I'm being saved from?  The power of my carnal nature within me.  The poison of the serpent's tongue within me.  The bondage and the veil of shame and darkness that dominates this natural realm.  I'm saved from the separation from the Father due to my carnality ruling me.  What must I do to be saved?  Stop walking in my flesh, pursue walking in the spirit.  Stop focusing on my shadows and allow myself to see me as God sees me . . .I have the spirit of his Son living in me.  That's all he sees . . .if that's all he sees, then that's all I need.

Asking Jesus in my heart has no bearing on my final destination.  That has already been dealt with at the cross.  Now, if I want to fulfill the prayer taught by Christ for His kingdom to come to this realm, and his will to be done in our lives, then I kinda need to yield myself to the one who's already done all the work.  May we all manifest his rest and be blessed in His truth and light.

[peacemaker]

Tracing the path to the source of inspiration; It is finished.

[claypot]

Maybe there is a plan for everything that happens, i believe there has to be otherwise life doesn't seem to make sense anymore for me.
Nancy

For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. Phil2.13

Not only a plan but a 'working out' of everything by God Himself.

cp

[eaglesway]

I personally believe that each one of us is like Job. The story of our sorrows and joys and how the grace of God has sustained us through them is a part of the overall eternal wisdom of God, who causes all things to work according to the counsel of His will, according to His kind intention.
I believe the record of every life story, certainly of more value than the life record, for instance, of sparrows- will testify to the 'praise of the glory of His grace' in the restitution of all things, when God is all in all.

[michelle7mickey]

If you can download this documentary you will have a WHOLE new twist to the plagues in Egypt.  The docu is by a Christian....its from a scientific view point. It's incredible!
The documetary is called "Exodus Decoded"

[WhiteWings]

Hi Michelle,
While looking for documentary I found this: http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/09/debunking-the-exodus-decoded.aspx

[michelle7mickey]

Thanks for the link!  :thumbsup: Man, it gets so hard to know what to believe anymore!  :sigh: Why can't people just make docus that are based thoroughly on facts!...makes things worse when trying to bring intellectuals to faith and they know the facts!!

[Nathan]

Well, for me, I guess it's because it's not really about facts as much as it is about faith.  Not everyone uses their faith in their belief systems because they're relying on what they "know" which blinds them from what's being revealed.