So we're just another cult trying to deny the reality of hell?

[Universalist Catholic]

Thats one argument the traditionalist often use, telling us that we are just some cult.  To them a cult is any religious tradition not teaching Christian Orthodoxy.  Many claim that we are working so hard to disprove what is plainly written.  And yes, it is true that Universalists are working hard to bring out the true Gospel, but thats only because long ago, the religious authorities worked so hard to infiltrate the scriptures with unholy teachings, and mistranslations.  After the rise of Augustinianism, scriptures were only printed in Latin, and only the priests could understand them.  In fact, the only people who were allowed to interpret the bible were the Church leaders.  They worked so hard to change what was plainly written, into this gloom and doom understanding, and forgivness only accomplished through going through a priest.  Things only got worse during the Reformation, when Calvin invented a new theological system that would go on influencing the Fundamentalist Evangelical Churches.  But on a bible matter, if everyone understood Gehenna and sheol/hades to be a place where the damned would suffer forever, then why did it need to be translated as hell, and given a new meaning different from the understanding of the Jews of the time?  In todays day and age, many people are beginning to see the contradiction of an all powerful all loving God launching sinners into an eternal torture chamber.  To combat this problem, the church changed the doctrine around.  Now, God doesnt decide who goes to hell, we choose it for ourselves.  Hell is no longer a pit in the earth where sinners will be tortured by fire and brimstone, but the torment is being out of his presence.  All they did was make an image of a cruel God who hated sinners, to a neglectful God who was forced to make someone suffer forever.  Now thats changing doctrine, and totally unbiblical and unreasonable.  They say that the reason a soul needs to suffer in hell, is because they are cut off from God who is the source of all.  But if someone were totally cut off from the source of all things, that would include life, and that would mean they would no longer exist.  But the churches say you are cut off from Joy, love, hapiness, comfort and peace.  But God is also the source of life also.  Not to mention that is not scriptural at all, considering the scriptures plainly write God will be All in All.  So they cannot accuse the Universalists of trying to twist the scriptures when they are doing it themselves.  Plus, it is not twisting the scriptures if you want to understand what the bible said in its original language instead of its church censored translation.  They often refer to a cult as being a new religious movement contradicting established Orthodox doctrines.  First off, Universalism is not new.  It prevailed for the first 500 years of the Christian Church, and the churches who spoke Greek.  Plus, if these people so long ago were the closest to Christ, they would definitely understand the intended meaning of the scriptures in Greek, and the original meaning behind Judgment, Gehenna, Jesus sacrifice, and salvation.  Ex. If you wanted to know what life was like when your Grandpa was young, who are you going to ask, Grandpa, or a history teacher?  Grandpa, because he was there.  So, I think its best to put the Church fathers opinions above those of the Medieval, Rennaissance and Evangelical theologians.  They can only understand things through the popular church view.  And if they state Universalism is new, thats plain hypocracy.  Most Evangelical Fundamentalist Protestant theologies are fairly new.  Most of it came from Augustine, Luther, Calvin and Arminius.  The "Born Again Christianity" today is fairly new.  No one believed in a theology where one has some special experience and were all the sudden "saved" just because they read one scripture.  Not to mention, Pentecostalism and Baptists were not around until the 1700's, so they cannot claim that their denomination is above all others.  So, Universalism is an ancient belief, based purely on clear scriptures in their original language, without absurd explainations, but logical and scriptural explainations.  Plus, I have not seen any bad fruit in Universalist circles, like I have in the traditionalist circles.  Its better to believe in the true Good news, based on pure scripture without any absurd twists, than be accepted for following this bad news of people trying to twist the scriptures, and come up with absurd explainations for their demonic theology.

[Paul Hazelwood]

It is hard to reason with someone that uses buzz words to make points,  if someone says I am in a cult they will have to explain why I believe what I do with no one coercing me, not going to be witha  group and living in a household where I am disagreed with. 

Can someone actually be held hostage by a cult over the internet?  hmmmmm

[Lefein]

Universalism is a cult, yet Traditional Churchianity is the one who subtly demands the tithe, and more?...Hmmmn...interesting...

[Quaesitor]

More logical fallacies and use of rethorics to force people to change their points of view and convert.
I wonder what mainstream evangelicals do not understand in love your neighbors.

1Co 13:4-7  Love is patient, is kind. Love is not jealous. Love is not bragging, is not puffed up,  (5)  is not indecent, is not self-seeking, is not incensed, is not taking account of evil,  (6)  is not rejoicing in injustice, yet is rejoicing together with the truth,  (7)  is forgoing all, is believing all, is expecting all, is enduring all."

Yet God is so enduring and forgoing that 95% of mankind will burn forever.

[WhiteWings]

1Co 13:4-7b to the elected believers

[shawn]

Anytime the church wants to scare people they use the world "cult".  If believing our God who loves agape doesn't torture people for eternity makes me a member of a cult then sign me up.

[thinktank]

It's funny how some groups are labelled a cult but others are not. How come the baptists never call the methodists a cult and vise versa. What's the qualification to be a cult I wonder?

From my view a cult is a group that is lead by a man/woman, or an assembly who manipulate their members for their own personal gain. Whether it be for money, or whether it be a cult of bloodshed and violence, as long as the people follow the corrupt teachings of that leader. Since every church in the world doesn't have 100 % truth, then it's difficult to technically figure which one is a cult, so I guess it's up to wisdom to be our guiding light. :2c:

[WhiteWings]

It's funny how some groups are labelled a cult but others are not. How come the baptists never call the methodists a cult and vise versa. What's the qualification to be a cult I wonder?

I think in this case small/minority.

[Lefein]

Baptists are actually labeled a cult in Germany if I recall correctly.

[jabcat]

Baptists are actually labeled a cult in Germany if I recall correctly.

I did a little looking and really didn't find anything about it.  However, if they are, IMO, it's sheer ignorance (and evil) to do so. :2c:

I've been amongst them for many years, and I believe there are many loving Christian people present within that denomination.

[thinktank]

Baptists are actually labeled a cult in Germany if I recall correctly.

I did a little looking and really didn't find anything about it.  However, if they are, IMO, it's sheer ignorance (and evil) to do so. :2c:

I've been amongst them for many years, and I believe there are many loving Christian people present within that denomination.

I allways thought the baptist were one of the biggest protestant groups. I wonder which group is the biggest?

I think that the catholic church has the most members, but 2nd not sure.

[Lefein]

I only said that they where labeled as such (as according to what ever trivia I got it from), not that they actually where.

[WhiteWings]

TT,

(http://www.blog.joelx.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/largest-religions-graph.gif)
More detailed.