Near Death Experiences, Round 1,000

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I don't know what's so "chameleon" like about it.......I've been saying the same things about it for YEARS. The patterns in the Word are repeated over and over and over again, so that none of the scriptures can be of any private interpretation, as it says, because they all bear witness of each other, ESPECIALLY regarding the patterns.

If something someone says does not line up with a pattern that has been previously shown to us, then we are to know it is not of the same Spirit and will not be added to the building of His hands, which we are. But if it does line up yet we don't grasp it, wisdom would be to go to the Lord about it, that He might open our eyes and ears. My  :2c:

[micah7:9]

Everything about "soul," by some on the forum is "chameleon" when it needs to be. Start the journey with what the Word starts out with, I aint gonna repeat it. Its hard, but then one has to remember man is bombarded with many ideas that ignite our imaginations.
Best way to see it is YOU are a living/breathing creature, a soul. Now that you know that you are a living soul(I am at this point do not have any idea what a dead soul is) what ever you do is brought forth from that place, which the breath of life lit and the dust/flesh lights up. YOU are now hungry and yearn to enjoy this life, YOU want to enjoy all the heat, warmings, desires that a living soul lives for. You want to sin.

[Molly]

YOU want to enjoy all the heat, warmings, desires that a living soul lives for. You want to sin.

It is interesting, though, that when he comes to repair us, he gives us a heart of flesh?  What do you make of that, if flesh is so bad?

[micah7:9]

Molly do you really accept that the heart of flesh of Ezk.  is a heart of flesh that is for the believer today?


Rom 7:5  for when we were in the flesh, the passions of the sins, that are through the law, were working in our members, to bear fruit to the death;
Rom 7:18  for I have known that there doth not dwell in me, that is, in my flesh, good: for to will is present with me, and to work that which is right I do not find,
Rom 8:1  There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit;
Rom 8:13  for if according to the flesh ye do live, ye are about to die; and if, by the Spirit, the deeds of the body ye put to death, ye shall live;
Eze 11:19  And I have given to them one heart, And a new spirit I do give in your midst, And I have turned the heart of stone out of their flesh, And I have given to them a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:26  And I have given to you a new heart, And a new spirit I give in your midst, And I have turned aside the heart of stone out of your flesh, And I have given to you a heart of flesh.
Other than these two verses in Ezek. I find no reference in the NT where a heart of flesh is given or offered. I do find Ezk. some thing to look in to.

[Molly]

I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.
Eze 11:19

I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the LORD. They will be my people, and I will be their God, for they will return to me with all their heart.
Jer 24:7


Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel?
Eze 18:31


2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Rom 12:2

Molly do you really accept that the heart of flesh of Ezk.  is a heart of flesh that is for the believer today?

Yes, I would say so.  I would even venture to say, at the risk of sounding Catholic, that the heart of flesh is the sacred heart of Christ.


19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

--Heb 10

[micah7:9]

It amazes me how the NT is our standard, but when we walk up against it, we delve into the OT. Knowing that the OT is but a type and shadow of the NT. Yet we find the OT words will overwhelm the NT to make our point. Either the flesh is our enemy our foe or the "heart of FLESH" is where we find solace.

[Molly]

It amazes me how the NT is our standard, but when we walk up against it, we delve into the OT. Knowing that the OT is but a type and shadow of the NT. Yet we find the OT words will overwhelm the NT to make our point. Either the flesh is our enemy our foe or the "heart of FLESH" is where we find solace.

It's all one piece, Micah,


Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
--Psa 51:10

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
--Mat 5:8

[micah7:9]

Im sorry, I understand it is all ONE piece, but I do not see how a heart of flesh is bennifical. I do not see how a "heart of flesh" is a step forward.

[Molly]

Im sorry, I understand it is all ONE piece, but I do not see how a heart of flesh is bennifical. I do not see how a "heart of flesh" is a step forward.

It's beneficial because a heart of flesh is able to feel love and passion and compassion--and not break.  It is the heart of God.

Deuteronomy 4:29
But even there, if you seek God, your God, you'll be able to find him if you're serious, looking for him with your whole heart and soul. When troubles come and all these awful things happen to you, in future days you will come back to God, your God, and listen obediently to what he says. God, your God, is above all a compassionate God. In the end he will not abandon you, he won't bring you to ruin, he won't forget the covenant with your ancestors which he swore to them.

[WhiteWings]

"God, in his great justice, fairness, and unfathomable love gave them what they desired: a place without God and where each was receiving the fruits of his or her own doings."

Disgusting.  :sigh:

No fire. And the verses are about the worsed of mankind. "....were a terror in the land of the living."

[WhiteWings]

It amazes me how the NT is our standard,

Is it/should it be?

but when we walk up against it, we delve into the OT. Knowing that the OT is but a type and shadow of the NT.

Meaning full of useful information.

Yet we find the OT words will overwhelm the NT to make our point.

They don't overwelm. They agree. A shadow is of the same image.

Im sorry, I understand it is all ONE piece, but I do not see how a heart of flesh is bennifical. I do not see how a "heart of flesh" is a step forward.

Who are you (us) to throw out the OT piece? Jesus (almost) constantly taught OLD things. His parables were nothing new. Many teachings from the OT area.
So if Jesus found it useful it must have some value I guess.....

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: I don't know what's so "chameleon" like about it (Soul).......I've been saying the same things about it for YEARS.

My guess is that Micah means it goes under so many names.
It's a soul, femle, male and female, the pit, carnal mind, etc etc

it can change its looks/meaning when ever it needs.

Maybe all those things are just images of the same.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Exactly, WW......same pattern repeated. It's a book of symbols, which is why we need the HS to interpret what HE wrote. Once He shows you a pattern, then you can "see" it everywhere in there in different scriptures, forms, ect.

There is terrestrial (natural) flesh, and celestial (spiritual) flesh. Our heart/soul is as stone, His heart is spiritual flesh. Not all flesh is natural, but our western inclination is to hear the word "flesh" and immediately think of our natural bodies. My  :2c:

[thinktank]

At last someone gets it  :thumbsup:

[thinktank]

I dont believe that to be true  "I've been in that place."

It's true.  Trust me. lol


@Cardinal. wow.  I remember that scene from that movie.

It really makes you wonder who's making these movies, doesn't it?

I will stick with trusting God's word, than yours, but thank you. :laughing7:

Cain was sent away from the presence of the LORD.  So it is possible.


13And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

14Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

15And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

16And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

--Gen 4

Well there you go, I have to take Psalm 139 out of my Bible. Gee my Bible is getting smaller :sigh: There is your reason TT :sigh:

You have said this type of thing on numerous occasions. Perhaps you should take heed and take your own advice, ignoring scriptures and asserting only your favorites own is almost becoming a trademark of yours.

[micah7:9]

:cloud9: Exactly, WW......same pattern repeated. It's a book of symbols, which is why we need the HS to interpret what HE wrote. Once He shows you a pattern, then you can "see" it everywhere in there in different scriptures, forms, ect.

There is terrestrial (natural) flesh, and celestial (spiritual) flesh. Our heart/soul is as stone, His heart is spiritual flesh. Not all flesh is natural, but our western inclination is to hear the word "flesh" and immediately think of our natural bodies. My  :2c:

I can see a good part of your first statement, but that second part is well I dont really know.

[micah7:9]

"You have said this type of thing on numerous occasions. Perhaps you should take heed and take your own advice, ignoring scriptures and asserting only your favorites own is almost becoming a trademark of yours." TT

I will keep saying it as long as people want to change what the Bible teaches. You would do well to do the same. Just because a person "feels" like God is not there in any of their situations does not make it so. What is so is that David knew and said Psa 139:7  Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8  If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psa 139:9  If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10  Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
Psa 139:11  If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
Psa 139:12  Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
Now ThinkTank Im going to take HIS Word over Molly. Or perhaps I should tear that Psalm out?

[WhiteWings]

There is terrestrial (natural) flesh, and celestial (spiritual) flesh. Our heart/soul is as stone, His heart is spiritual flesh. Not all flesh is natural, but our western inclination is to hear the word "flesh" and immediately think of our natural bodies. My  :2c:

Just a wild guess. Linen=spiritual bodies. Wool=natural bodies. :mshock:

^ACVEzekiel 44
15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, who kept the charge of my sanctuary when the sons of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister to me. And they shall stand before me to offer to me the fat an
16 they shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister to me, and they shall keep my charge.
17 And it shall be that, when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments, and no wool shall come upon them, while they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.
18 They shall have linen headdresses upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins. They shall not gird themselves with [anything that causes] sweat.
19 And when they go forth into the outer court, even into the outer court to the people, they shall put off their garments in which they minister, and lay them in the holy chambers. And they shall put on other garments, that they not



Note to self: Stop wearing kevlar  :winkgrin:

[thinktank]

Or perhaps you can reason and keep the psalm page intact.
In this Earth there are places where God is stronger than others. Who was the prophet who stood on holy ground and had to take of his shoes.

Please don't rip that page from the bible.

If hell is a real kingdom, then it must also have God there but veiled, hence maybe why I said that hell is not such a bad place to visit. Maybe king David also had the same idea.   :grin: Hey Great minds think alike   :happy3:

[Cardinal]

There is terrestrial (natural) flesh, and celestial (spiritual) flesh. Our heart/soul is as stone, His heart is spiritual flesh. Not all flesh is natural, but our western inclination is to hear the word "flesh" and immediately think of our natural bodies. My  :2c:

Just a wild guess. Linen=spiritual bodies. Wool=natural bodies. :mshock:

^ACVEzekiel 44
15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, who kept the charge of my sanctuary when the sons of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister to me. And they shall stand before me to offer to me the fat an
16 they shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister to me, and they shall keep my charge.
17 And it shall be that, when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments, and no wool shall come upon them, while they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.
18 They shall have linen headdresses upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins. They shall not gird themselves with [anything that causes] sweat.
19 And when they go forth into the outer court, even into the outer court to the people, they shall put off their garments in which they minister, and lay them in the holy chambers. And they shall put on other garments, that they not



Note to self: Stop wearing kevlar  :winkgrin:

:cloud9:  :thumbsup: It's a type of the works of the flesh, just as linen is a type of the works of the Spirit. One can do NO righteousness, the other can ONLY do works of righeousness. That's why linen speaks of the righteousness of the saints, because we are made righteous thru Him (and His works).

This is also why Jesus sweat blood in the garden. Sweat was not allowed in the sanctuary, it was a curse that related back to Adam in the garden, and Jesus came to reverse all the curses. Wool makes one sweat, and since sweat was an offense in the sanctuary, it was a sign to the disbelieving Jews, BECAUSE CHRIST IS THE SANTUARY NOT MADE WITH HANDS. Blessings....

[micah7:9]

 :thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

Or perhaps you can reason and keep the psalm page intact.
In this Earth there are places where God is stronger than others. Who was the prophet who stood on holy ground and had to take of his shoes.

Please don't rip that page from the bible.

If hell is a real kingdom, then it must also have God there but veiled, hence maybe why I said that hell is not such a bad place to visit. Maybe king David also had the same idea.   :grin: Hey Great minds think alike   :happy3:

"In this Earth there are places where God is stronger than others."   Where might those places be that God is stronger or weaker?
Hell a real kingdom?

[thinktank]

God is stronger in a true prophet than a false prophet.

Jesus said the kingdom of God is within.

Jesus came to build a kingdom, a better kingdom than surpasses the kingdom of Hell. Rev 20, to Rev22 shows that the last remnants of the kingdom of Hell/hades will be destroyed and replaced with the kingdom of God. Hence maybe the reason why in REv 22 those outside the city gates are in the lake of fire burning, because they can no longer hide in Hell, but must be in contact with God's justice at all times, being constantly convicted of Sin.

David could not hide from God presence, as he was God's sheep, but Cain was able to hide, as he was from that wicked one. But in the future rev 22 the cains of this world cannot Hide from God and will be as David, in anguish.
:2c:

[WhiteWings]

And do you think that possibly that the near death experiences about those cubes came to this person AFTER this EZK verses were preached or found or does it say that the experience was first and then found in Ezk?

I've read the book and the cubes also change place after a while. Then the people inside get punished in another way.
I hav eto say the cube idea isn't that insane at all. Many speak about corrective judgement. But what exactly is that? How will it happen? Surelu it isn't about writting down "I was a bad boy" 1000 times. One of the most effective way to learn is to feel what the person has done to others.
Recently I've heared a story about a burgelar that quit his 'job' because someone was in his house stole some of his stuff. That made a big impression on him.

[Molly]

Hell a real kingdom?

That's a good question.  I guess I would have to say, yes.

Eph 2:2
You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil--the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.