greek Aionion is being mistranslated by universal salvationists.

[nes]

Aionion is being mistranslated by universal salvationists.

The Universal Salvationists believe that no where in the bible does it say that hell is eternal, citing that Aionion means a period of time.  Aionion just means a period of time or infinite amount of time.  But why do all of the verses that have the word "Aionion" and do not support universal salvation mean a period of time while any verses supporting universal salvation with the greek word Aionion mean eternal?

I used NIV 2010 for these verses.

Matt. 25:46  Then they will go away to Aionion punishment, but the righteous to Aionion life.

So let's see here, does Aionion punishment mean temporary punishment or eternal punishment?


John 6:47  Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has Aionion life.

John 10:28  I give them Aionion life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Acts 13:48  When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for Aionion life believed.

Romans 2:7  To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give Aionion life.

Romans 5:21  so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring Aionion life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom. 16:26  but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the Aionion God...

Gal. 6:8  Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap Aionion life.

1 Tim. 6:16  who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might Aionion . Amen.

Matthew 18:8  If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into Aionion fire.  (this also references the lake of fire, why would he talk about people being thrown in there if it's impossible)?

Matthew 25:41  Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the Aionion fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Mark 3:29  but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an Aionion sin."

2 Thessalonians 1:9  They will be punished with Aionion destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

Jude 7  In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of Aionion fire.

1 Cor. 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

How can you believe in vain?  I thought everyone was saved??   :grin:


But wait, there are eternal damnation verses that do NOT even have the word Aionion . 

asbestos in these verses means unquenchable in greek.

Matthew 23:33  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Matthew 3:12  His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire." 

Mark 9:43  If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

Luke 3:17  His winnowing fork is in his hand to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

It may seem matthew 3:12 and Luke 3:17 don't talk about hell, but if you read the chapter instead of just the one verse itself it's very clear that this is talking about the lake of fire.

Matthew 26:24  The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

Why would it be better for someone who betrays the son of man to not be born if the punishment is finite and the reward is infinite?

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."

[WhiteWings]

Aionion is being mistranslated by universal salvationists.

The Universal Salvationists believe that no where in the bible does it say that hell is eternal, citing that Aionion means a period of time.  Aionion just means a period of time or infinite amount of time.  But why do all of the verses that have the word "Aionion" and do not support universal salvation mean a period of time while any verses supporting universal salvation with the greek word Aionion mean eternal?

I used NIV 2010 for these verses.

Matt. 25:46  Then they will go away to Aionion punishment, but the righteous to Aionion life.

So let's see here, does Aionion punishment mean temporary punishment or eternal punishment?

That's a much better translation Nes.
It would even better if punishment was translated as 'correction'
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/Matthew%2025_46_2.htm
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/Sheep_and_goats.htm
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/Matthew%2025_46.htm

Matthew 18:8  If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into Aionion fire.  (this also references the lake of fire, why would he talk about people being thrown in there if it's impossible)?

Who said it's impossible?
UR people do not deny that LoF exists. They believe it's not for ever and not torture but purifying.
That's a big difference.

Jude 7  In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of Aionion fire.

Can you show me a picture of Sodom burning right now? I'm sure it would be in the Guinness book records as teh longest burning city ever.

http://home.online.nl/spamfree/index.html?page=Matthew%2025_46.htm

1 Cor. 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

How can you believe in vain?  I thought everyone was saved??   :grin:

Yes, everybody is saved. Saved from what should be the next question......

But wait, there are eternal damnation verses that do NOT even have the word Aionion . 

asbestos in these verses means unquenchable in greek.

Asbestos doesn't even burn  :laughing7:
Unquenchable simply means it keeps burning until there is nothing more left to burn.
Just like a forest fire that stops burning when there are no trees left.

Matthew 23:33  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Where is the reference to eternal.

Matthew 3:12  His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."   The fire references the lake of fire.

Ever considered wheat and chaff is the same plant?

Why would it be better for someone who betrays the son of man to not be born if the punishment is finite and the reward is infinite?

So basicly you would prefer to sin but you don't because of fear. That means sin is in your heart....

[Nathan]

Ever wonder if God's intention when he inspired the written word ("He" being SPIRIT) that he did it with the intention of the recipients would take that inspired word, dissect it, inflate it, discolor it, add to it, take away from it . . .the list is endless . . .AND THEN turn on each other with whatever part of it was left? 

Peter used the sword to defend Jesus and was rebuked for it.  He was told to even put it away.  According to Ephesians 6, the sword there depicts the Word of God.  Could it be that what Jesus was saying there is that we need not DEFEND God's word with one another?  That it's not meant to be used as a weapon to cut another person's understanding of it to pieces?

Being the human natures that we are, some of it's inevidible, but one would think that "if" the life of Christ is truly in us, that these purposefully staged religious battles are really the results of our minds trying to coerce the minds of others into a submissive conformity.  Debates and discussions are all well and good, but some appear to be more destructive in nature than reproductive in "His" nature.

Yes, it's all inspried by God . . .but to be honest . . .pretty much every version . . .outside of the original language, every translated version loses the original magic of spiritual power . . .majic only because to our minds, it's all a mystery . . .but in translation, we lose much of that and yet we choose to use intellect to prove another to be wrong. 

Can we not see that in Christ, it's not about who's wrong or who's right?  But instead, that's the bondage of the tree of Knowledge all over again?  Can we not see that this SPIRIT INSPIRED word is to be read with intellect, but applied with innocense?  We are to accept what we can't understand, believe what we can not see.  yet instead, we try to force-feed our interpretation into the mouth of another who God has given to see another way.

Nes, I sense you are not of the same beleif as the majority of others here at this forum.  Do you come with the intent to transform all who come here into believing things "your" way?  You do realize the reason they/we come here is because we are already in agreement with the general direction of things. 

I've not come by way of literalization.  I've come to see this UR understanding is actually the very nature of God.  His love sent Christ not as an option, but as THE solution.  He would have it that none of us die . . .in spite of our own weaknesses, blindnesses, bull-headed desires.  He is actually just that powerful that if he says WE ARE ALL FREE . . .then why is it so hard to grasp that he ALWAYS get's what he wants?

The patterns of eternal torment of ANY kind just don't fit with God's nature . . which is LOVE.  I read Scripture with the mind I have, but I don't apply it with my limited mind, I leave that up to the spirit within me.  and "that's" how I came to see this wonderful truth that not only "could" God save the whole world . . .but that he DID save the whole world.  And it wasn't from an eternal hell of damnation and torment . . .he saved me from the bondage and powers of the carnality that I was born into and that was born into me.

Don't you realize that he changed the parchment of his truths from the cold stone of the Old Covenant to the hearts of men with the New Covenant?  Paul had the same force as many around us still do today.  He had a personal conviction and he would imprison anyone who didn't see things how he saw them.  Then God showed up. 

Trying to enforce there's a hell, there is eternal torment . . .there is damnation and judgment to men . .these are all things that are adversarial by nature, to the easy yoke, light burdens, refreshing waters that Jesus was establishing when he was here.  It's against his nature, all the arguing over word definitions will never change this.

[jabcat]

I've come to see this UR understanding is actually the very nature of God.  His love sent Christ not as an option, but as THE solution.  ...why is it so hard to grasp that he ALWAYS get's what he wants?

The patterns of eternal torment of ANY kind just don't fit with God's nature . . which is LOVE.  Don't you realize that he changed the parchment of his truths from the cold stone of the Old Covenant to the hearts of men with the New Covenant?  Paul had the same force as many around us still do today.  He had a personal conviction and he would imprison anyone who didn't see things how he saw them.  Then God showed up. 

Trying to enforce there's a hell, there is eternal torment . . .there is damnation and judgment to men . .these are all things that are adversarial by nature, to the easy yoke, light burdens, refreshing waters that Jesus was establishing when he was here.  It's against his nature...

And all God's people said "Amen!".

[thinktank]

What if you are correct?

Romans 2:7  To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give Aionion life.

If He gives us life for an age, then what? He destroys us?

But these verses show one must continue to be holy and then life will be the result

So if one continues to be good, then life is allways promised. Please show me one verse where this cannot be true?

So as we live life in love we will live forever as Jesus lives forever.

[nes]

That's a much better translation Nes.
It would even better if punishment was translated as 'correction'
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/Matthew%2025_46_2.htm
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/Sheep_and_goats.htm
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/Matthew%2025_46.htm

I do not agree with those articles, if Aionion does not mean eternal then does that mean god's might and honor are not eternal?  How could christ give non-eternal life?  Of course you wouldn't believe in that...

Who said it's impossible?
UR people do not deny that LoF exists. They believe it's not for ever and not torture but purifying.
That's a big difference.

Some UR people believe that LoF is only for satan and demons, some UR people believe that LoF will be destroyed, some UR people believe that people stop existing instead of going to LoF, etc... 

No where in the bible does it say that the LoF is for purifying.

Jude 7  In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of Aionion fire.

Can you show me a picture of Sodom burning right now? I'm sure it would be in the Guinness book records as teh longest burning city ever.

Exactly, Aionion can mean BOTH a period of time AND an infinite amount of time.  This is what I've been saying all along.

1 Cor. 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

How can you believe in vain?  I thought everyone was saved??   :grin:

Yes, everybody is saved. Saved from what should be the next question......

Saved from the second death.

But wait, there are eternal damnation verses that do NOT even have the word Aionion . 

asbestos in these verses means unquenchable in greek.

Asbestos doesn't even burn  :laughing7:
Unquenchable simply means it keeps burning until there is nothing more left to burn.
Just like a forest fire that stops burning when there are no trees left.

That's correct, asbestos doesn't even burn.  Unquenchable and fire are 2 different words.  But asbestos means NEVER quenched.  It's eternal unlike Aionion which can be a period of time or infinite.

Matthew 23:33  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Where is the reference to eternal.

There is no eternal reference but the verse implies it.

Matthew 3:12  His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."   The fire references the lake of fire.

Ever considered wheat and chaff is the same plant?

Chaff is not eaten, it is useless and thrown away.  But the wheat is what he keeps.  the chaff is unbelievers, just like the tree that bears no fruit.  He's using parables to give a point, perhaps you should read the entire chapter?

Why would it be better for someone who betrays the son of man to not be born if the punishment is finite and the reward is infinite?

So basicly you would prefer to sin but you don't because of fear. That means sin is in your heart....

No, it doesn't matter what actions and desires I have on earth.  I noticed that you didn't quote the verse, what is it too against Universal salvation??


Matthew 26:24  The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

[Paul Hazelwood]

Aionion is being mistranslated by universal salvationists.

I am more inclined to say that primarily the definitions of aionios are not used consistantly in context with how the word is used.  Let's take a look.

G166  aionios  ahee-o'-nee-os

from G165;

perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for
ever, everlasting, world (began).

We have to understand two things.  First is the fact that most conclusions in Christianity revolves around the literal reading of the King James version, so you can have your easy to read translation but most of them are simply versions that make the King james text easier to read, which says nothing about truth at all.

As you see here in the strong notes the definitions listed after the :-- that I highlighted in blue are not dictionary definitions, but the words used in the king james.

Secondly, is the use of "perpetual" which is the primary meaning for the word.   Perpentual is often confused as having only the meaning of things eternal or everlasting in the most absolute sense, but that is not true.

Perpetual can mean something that lasts the full duration of a period of time.   Yes it can mean something eternal or everlasting, but context will prove that most often in scripture that use is abstract .  But how it is used in scripture and the context of that usage will determine which manner of definition is applied.

The Universal Salvationists believe that no where in the bible does it say that hell is eternal, citing that Aionion means a period of time.

The main problem here is that you are arguing against something that will ultimatly have no bearing against God saving all mankind.  I do not hold to the belief that aionios only means a period of time,  but the argument that aionios cannot mean a period of time is just as false.   So when a person uses the point that a verse such as Matthew 25:46 must mean eternal in both instances that it is used is false because the context and how the word is used determines the meaning it will carry.   

Matt. 25:46  Then they will go away to Aionion punishment, but the righteous to Aionion life.

So let's see here, does Aionion punishment mean temporary punishment or eternal punishment?

Since I referred to this verse I will answer your question concerning it.

The nature of God and how he deals with man will determine whether this is punishment that will never end or punishment that remains as long as it needs to remain (perpetual)

The context for this is found in a scripture that says how God deals with those he loves.   Now if you believe God DOES NOT love everyone, then of course we can investigate that together.   However, if you believe God loves each and everty human being that ever has, does or will live on earth then this verse is the key to that understanding.

Hb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

The word translated to chasteneth in this translation is

G3811  paideuo  pahee-dyoo'-o

from G3816;

to train up a child, i.e. educate, or (by implication), discipline (by
punishment):--chasten(-ise), instruct, learn, teach.

If punishment never ends for those God loves, it contradicts this.     Discipline in any context carries the implication of a temporary nature.   However,  the reason perpetual is a fitting word here is that as human beings we cannot percieve how long it will take,  an abstract "everlasting" is simply the perception of the time it does take.

This can be demonstrated by anyone who has gone through a trial whether by their own doing or someone elses and learned through it,  while in that trial  you couldn't have determined when it would end.

If perhaps you might think the verse in hebrews talks about only those already saved. If so,  please say so and I will show how that cannot be so in any context.

[WhiteWings]

^YLTLuke 18
29 and he said to them, `Verily I say to you, that there is not one who left house, or parents, or brothers, or wife, or children, for the sake of the reign of God,
30 who may not receive back manifold more in this time, and in the coming age, life age-during.'


Read that verse very well. In the coning age/aion people get age-during/aionios life.
The life is taking place "inside" the age. Age is limited -> life is limited -> aionios is limited by the duration of the age.

^EBRMatt 25
46 And, these, shall go away, into, age–abiding, correction, but, the righteous, into, age–abiding, life.

Correction has an end. Otherwise corrections fails. And God fails because He's the corrector.
http://www.saviourofall.org/poisonfruitofvine.html
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

[Molly]

Aionion simply means pertaining to the ages.

It doesn't by itself tell how long a period of time it is or how many ages [could be 1/10 of an aion or 3 aions or aions past or aions future.]

We already know that God is eternal and also the God of the ages [aionios God], using that term about him shows he is in charge of the ages, not how much time he is existing.

It is just a point of view on time that takes in the big picture [God measures out time in terms of aions instead of coffee spoons].

I do think there might be a time when the ages cease [when God is all in all] but that's so far away...

If there is such a thing as age-limited life, I would expect a renewal at the end of the age.

Anyway, That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. :happygrin:



"To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever [panta tous aiones, to "all the ages," plural]. Amen.

--Jude 25

[jabcat]

I like your story.   :bigGrin:  We're told elsewhere that God is immortal.

[coldwar]

I don't think Aionion is being mistranslated. It is surely being misunderstood.

So when you have a scripture like "They who believe to aionion life, but the unrighteous to aionion punishment" it's very easy to say the only possible interpretation is that if the righteous are going to live forever, then the unrighteous are going to be punished forever. But that is only if the word means "one eternal continuum". In fact, the word means from age to age, or through the ages - eternity by this definition means that one age comes to an end, a new one will begin. The righteous will ride through the ages, being incarnated from one to the next, unscathed forever by punishment. The unrighteous will be similarly incarnated, from age to age but will find themselves eventually coming out of one age, suffering the darkness of discipline, into a new age enjoying the fullness of God and the Saints.