Marry K Baxter, a witness or no?

[arcticmonster2003]

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9oSHQ3HGq0&feature=related
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NXTvhXz5hI&feature=related
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r5DGxAiUzQ&feature=related

Witness, or no?

[martincisneros]

She's a very emotionally disturbed woman, who in her own vision was scared to death of whom she believed to be Jesus Christ.  Her vision contradicts too much Scripture.  What's the point in bringing up all of these people who blatantly contradict Scripture all day long?

[sparrow]

sad.
just very, very sad.
She is searching for something, in all the wrong places.

[arcticmonster2003]

sparrow,
Whether you believe her testimony or not, it is clear that she clings to Jesus Christ, and that, my brother, is not the wrong place to be searching.

martin,
The way I see it, if you don't think that her testimony should be heard because you think it contradicts scripture, then are there any other people here at tentmaker whom should be silenced due to their contradictions of scripture? At least she, as best she understands, clings to the Word of God and Jesus Christ.

[martincisneros]

martin,
The way I see it, if you don't think that her testimony should be heard because you think it contradicts scripture, then are there any other people here at tentmaker whom should be silenced due to their contradictions of scripture? At least she, as best she understands, clings to the Word of God and Jesus Christ.

I'm not saying her testimony shouldn't be heard.  I'm saying that it's not Scriptural, yet she's always held up as the Apostle of Hell, as though a psychotic episode proved anything doctrinally.  I agree that it's commendable that as best as she understands that she's clinging to the Word of God and Jesus Christ.  May His perfect love cast out her torment!  When I still believed in eternal torment, though, the Gnostic overtones in her testimony of describing Hell as being in the shape of the human body was already suspect to me before I understood what the Scriptures taught on that subject.  If God were going to build a Hell on extra-biblical grounds, do you really think it would be in the shape of His holy temple?  Then again, that could have tongue-in-cheek UR implications all it's own, although again on extra-biblical grounds.

[Shadow]

sparrow,
Whether you believe her testimony or not, it is clear that she clings to Jesus Christ, and that, my brother, is not the wrong place to be searching.

martin,
The way I see it, if you don't think that her testimony should be heard because you think it contradicts scripture, then are there any other people here at tentmaker whom should be silenced due to their contradictions of scripture? At least she, as best she understands, clings to the Word of God and Jesus Christ.

You seem to be implying that people who are against her testimony are not clinging to the Word of God and Jesus Christ

This is very interesting as it comes from a site which supports ET which doesn't support Mary Baxter

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/mary_k_baxter.htm

You are right about one thing though, in such a cesspool of confusion and despair one can only trust in God and Jesus to show us the truth

[WhiteWings]

Hi Shadow,

I've spend many hours on that site before I found TM.

Can someone give his/hers opion on the following quote from that site. I think it's very essential in this case.

Conclusion

Anyone who claims to have special revelation from God is a liar, because 2nd Peter 1:20 says so... "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."  The world is filled today with quacks, false prophets, and deceivers who are greedy to make money (2nd Peter 2:1-3).  They will say anything to exploit an ignorant public.  This is why deceivers like Benny Hinn made $100,000,000 last year alone.  People are woefully ignorant of the truth today.  It's a shame that the Bible, God's Word, isn't enough for most people.  They are compelled to buy every book written by some nutcase who claims to have died and come back.  Folks, the Word of God has spoken.  We don't need any "new" messages today.  Miss Baxter is an imposter, who is certainly no Christian.  Benny Hinn is as lost as the Devil himself, yet you'll find the basic Gospel on Hinn's website.  These false prophets have learned the art of deception, even exploiting the simplicity of the Gospel to deceive people.  What people don't see are Benny Hinn's Hidden Heresies.

[arcticmonster2003]

sparrow,
Whether you believe her testimony or not, it is clear that she clings to Jesus Christ, and that, my brother, is not the wrong place to be searching.

martin,
The way I see it, if you don't think that her testimony should be heard because you think it contradicts scripture, then are there any other people here at tentmaker whom should be silenced due to their contradictions of scripture? At least she, as best she understands, clings to the Word of God and Jesus Christ.

You seem to be implying that people who are against her testimony are not clinging to the Word of God and Jesus Christ

This is very interesting as it comes from a site which supports ET which doesn't support Mary Baxter

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/mary_k_baxter.htm

You are right about one thing though, in such a cesspool of confusion and despair one can only trust in God and Jesus to show us the truth

Sorry if I did seem to imply that, that was not my intention, I was only saying that she seems to me to be sincerely convinced of what she is talking about in good conscience to the scriptures and Jesus Christ, thats all.

[arcticmonster2003]

Hi Shadow,

I've spend many hours on that site before I found TM.

Can someone give his/hers opion on the following quote from that site. I think it's very essential in this case.

Conclusion

Anyone who claims to have special revelation from God is a liar, because 2nd Peter 1:20 says so... "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."  The world is filled today with quacks, false prophets, and deceivers who are greedy to make money (2nd Peter 2:1-3).  They will say anything to exploit an ignorant public.  This is why deceivers like Benny Hinn made $100,000,000 last year alone.  People are woefully ignorant of the truth today.  It's a shame that the Bible, God's Word, isn't enough for most people.  They are compelled to buy every book written by some nutcase who claims to have died and come back.  Folks, the Word of God has spoken.  We don't need any "new" messages today.  Miss Baxter is an imposter, who is certainly no Christian.  Benny Hinn is as lost as the Devil himself, yet you'll find the basic Gospel on Hinn's website.  These false prophets have learned the art of deception, even exploiting the simplicity of the Gospel to deceive people.  What people don't see are Benny Hinn's Hidden Heresies.

I'll give you what I have, my opinion.

Anyone who claims to have special revelation from God is a liar, because 2nd Peter 1:20 says so

Lets look at 2nd Peter 1:20
2 Peter 1:20  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

My opinion is this, 2nd Peter 1:20 speaks that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. My understanding on it is this: That only God is able to interpret and reveal his Word to us. So I do disagree with that quote, however, it is a good example (in my opinion :happygrin:) on how, without God's interpretation on scripture, the scriptures may be interpreted wrongly. :happygrin:

[firstborn888]

Here's a quote from Mary's sensational book:

"I heard the woman say, "Lord, I knew you would come someday.  Please let me out of this place of torment." She was dressed in the clothes of an ancient era, and she was very beautiful.  I knew that she had been here for many centuries but could not die.  Her soul was in torment.  She began to pull at the bars and cry.

Softly Jesus said, "Peace, be still." He spoke to her with sadness in His voice.  "Woman, you know why you are here."

"Yes," she said, "but I can change.  I remember, when You let all those others out of paradise.  I " remember Your words of salvation.  I will be good now," she cried, "and I will serve You." She clenched the bars of the cell in her tiny fists and began to scream, "Let me out! Let me out!"

At that, she began to change before our eyes.  Her clothing began to burn.  Her flesh fell off, and all that remained was a black skeleton with burned-out holes for eyes and a hollow shell of a soul.  I watched in horror as the old woman fell to the floor.  All her beauty had departed in a moment.  It staggered my imagination to think that she had been here since before Christ was born.

Jesus said to her, "You knew on earth what your end would be.  Moses gave you the law, and you heard it.  But instead of obeying My law, you chose to be an instrument in the hands of Satan, a soothsayer and witch.  You even taught the art of witchcraft.  You loved darkness rather than light, and your deeds were evil.  If you had repented with your heart, My Father would have forgiven you.  But now, it is too late."

This is absolutely the biggest load of religious BS I've ever read in my entire life. Jesus stands there saying (sweetly and sadly) "Peace be still"  :thumbdown:

Sounds like a chic tract comic book sequence. I think she read too many of those.  :thumbsup:

[Loveroftruth]

This is absolutely the biggest load of religious BS I've ever read in my entire life. Jesus stands there saying (sweetly and sadly) "Peace be still"  thumbdown

Sounds like a chic tract comic book sequence. I think she read too many of those.  thumbsup

:mrflo: :mrflo: :mrflo: :iagree:

[WhiteWings]

You know, perhaps it's real what she described. A real dream.
I think, hope, I'm not the only one that has weird dreams. Something you spoke about that day with elements of say a movie.
Doing things that even would stretch the powers of God Himself.
I have 'lets try everything kinda life' but perhaps if someone is really devoted to the Bible it directs dreams.
It doesn't need much time to figure out hell is a very hot-topic on internet. I guess it's not much different in personal Bible study.
And being on this forum I almost feel weird because I never had a chat with the HS.
Anyway one gets such a dream that's sorta self evoked. You tell it to your religious friends and the whole thing gets out of control.
Not only the uni type of believer can be a true believer. People that mix up verses can be true believers too. (Childlike faith)
So that is perhaps a red flag but no proof.

[sparrow]

sparrow,
Whether you believe her testimony or not, it is clear that she clings to Jesus Christ, and that, my brother, is not the wrong place to be searching.

It's clear, huh? It's not clear to me...Seems to me she is clinging to some sadistic, torturer.  :dontknow:

[Nathan]

2 Peter 1
16 For we were not making up clever stories when we told you about the powerful coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. We saw his majestic splendor with our own eyes 17 when he received honor and glory from God the Father. The voice from the majestic glory of God said to him, "This is my dearly loved Son, who brings me great joy."[f] 18 We ourselves heard that voice from heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain.

19 Because of that experience, we have even greater confidence in the message proclaimed by the prophets. You must pay close attention to what they wrote, for their words are like a lamp shining in a dark place—until the Day dawns, and Christ the Morning Star shines[g] in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet's own understanding,[h] 21 or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God.

New Living Translation

[firstborn888]

You know, perhaps it's real what she described. A real dream.
I think, hope, I'm not the only one that has weird dreams. Something you spoke about that day with elements of say a movie .......
Anyway one gets such a dream that's sorta self evoked. You tell it to your religious friends and the whole thing gets out of control.
Not only the uni type of believer can be a true believer. People that mix up verses can be true believers too. (Childlike faith)
So that is perhaps a red flag but no proof.

I am in no way saying these experiences are all made up. Reading chic tracts and hearing hell fire stories your whole life actually opens the doors to demonic activity in your mind (as does Hollywood and religion and myth and other horror stories).

Remember the Christian right going nuts about rock-n-roll and demons and backward masking etc in the late 70's? What happened? : An explosion of 666 albums beast-like images (a response to cash in on the all the publicity the CR made) throughout the 80's.

Why do you think all the goth/death sites look like mid-evil church settings? That's where this stuff comes from - religion! 

[DeeDee]

True - lots of scripture contradiction. Has anyone here checked out Bill Wiese yet?

[WhiteWings]

I have the book.

Here it's debunked: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/bill_wiese.htm
Debunked by real fire believers.

DD only read that page. The others lies are not good for your sleep.  :HeartThrob:

[Paul Hazelwood]

I have the book.

Here it's debunked: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/bill_wiese.htm
Debunked by real fire believers.

I had to laugh at this page, and I know that doesn't mean anything, but I still laughed.  They are debunking this mans depiction of hell while contradictiong the whole notion they are trying to convey by saying:


"Believe me friend, if you die in your sins and go to Hell, monsters are going to be the last thing on your mind if your being burned alive with fire and brimstone!"


Believe God friend,  He will save the world.

[WhiteWings]

I hope you understood I wasn't presenting my own view by posting that page.
I was just pointing out to DD that even hellfire believers don't believe that book. (I think its the most famous in its kind)

[Paul Hazelwood]

I hope you understood I wasn't presenting my own view by posting that page.
I was just pointing out to DD that even hellfire believers don't believe that book. (I think its the most famous in its kind)

I figured that,  my ending comment was for DD, sorry for the confusion.   :cloud9:

[WhiteWings]

I had to laugh at this page, and I know that doesn't mean anything, but I still laughed.

IMO it does mean something Paul. Something positive.

It does mean you no longer fall for the mindgames of
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:oEoiF8yXT5gAUM:http://blogs.zdnet.com/images/bsd%2520linux%2520devil.JPG)

[HappyBoy!]

......edited out above....

I'll give you what I have, my opinion.

Anyone who claims to have special revelation from God is a liar, because 2nd Peter 1:20 says so

Lets look at 2nd Peter 1:20
2 Peter 1:20  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

My opinion is this, 2nd Peter 1:20 speaks that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. My understanding on it is this: That only God is able to interpret and reveal his Word to us. So I do disagree with that quote, however, it is a good example (in my opinion :happygrin:) on how, without God's interpretation on scripture, the scriptures may be interpreted wrongly. :happygrin:

Note- edited out part of the original quote to save space.

Regarding the "private interpretation" I read an opinion that it means no scripture is its own interpretation.  Scripture must be matched with scripture.  I think this was on the L. Ray Smith site.  If I recall correctly he used a linear version to come up with this.

I can't say that I've formed an opinion.  It seems either could be true.

[HappyBoy!]

True - lots of scripture contradiction. Has anyone here checked out Bill Wiese yet?

I checked out Bill Wiese when I still believed ET.  I credit him as helping me convert to UR  :bigGrin:

It's been a while, but a few points I remember are...

He said he knew he was in hell for ever.  In Rev 20, it's very clear that Hell is emptied and thrown into the Lake of Fire.  No one is in hell for ever even if you believe ET.  I know we commonly use the word "hell" for Hades, Gehenna and the Lake of Fire, but I would really expect a divine revelation to be more specific.

He said there were beings there who were "fullfilled" by beating him.  I can't remember for sure, but it was a similar word.  Anyway, I really raised an eyebrow at that as why would God give fullfillment to torturers?

I heard an audio critique more recently that stated they reviewed video/audio of him telling the story in different ways.  For example, in one version he ran to the kitchen for a glass of water and in another his wife got the water for him.  I've not verified this personally.

Hope this helps a little.

[WhiteWings]

He said there were beings there who were "fullfilled" by beating him.

Where that the demons in the prison cell with the iron bars?
One had fish 'claws' with razors or something like that.
(look time ago I've read that book)

If that would be true then God would have really lost the match.
First satan and his troops steal 95% of the souls => by making them sinners/unbelievers.
The God kicks everyone including satan and his demons into hell as punishment.
And then.....what happens....?
Satan has the pleasure of doing what he likes best. Torture.
Looks to me that from the mind of satan he ended up in heaven.
And God sorta ended up in hell because He lost 95% of His children....

Makes sense.....  :laughing7:

[Andromeda_Organa]

Mary K Baxter disturbs me.