Lost Sheep, Israel, Context of Jesus' Earthly Ministry

[ScarletWren]

Well, I am really grateful, at least for now, lol.  Because of this thread, I think I found some peace with what I was getting frustrated over in the natural vs. spiritual thread.

Part of what I was reading in Jones' paper really spoke to me.  It's something I knew but didn't really REALLY think about.  First we are justified, become sons by virtue of faith in Christ.  THEN we go through the sanctification process by which we become fit to be adopted as sons who are toshare in the affairs of the Father, to act in His stead, with His authority so to speak.  Tho we are heirs at birth, we don't know a thing about the Father's business and must be under 'tutors' and treated just as any other member of his employ.  But once we go through the process, graduate if you will and are announced fit, then the Father adopts us as his 'working' Son, fit to tend to matters of the Kingdom.  This is testified by glorification, receiving the new bodies like unto Christ's after His resurrection. 

But that is not the end....we are made Sons so that we CAN do what God has planned for his Sons.  Sanctification isn't the ultimate goal of our sonship.  There are firstfruits, then everyone comes into sonship in his own order after that.  The firstfruits are very instrumental in that process.  I don't see that the process takes place in a short time but over a long period of time.  After that, I still see there being a purpose to our existence other than lounging around glorifying God.  All is glory to God, but it's not simply worship.  This is all just a beginning, imho.  Anyway that's how I see it. 

So some are pretty much at this time only interested in the sanctification process and they see most in the Bible as applying to that process within themselves and others on the path to sonship.  Others, have an interest in the purpose of sonship.  It's all good.  Perhaps right now, we can't understand the other's obsession with one or the other but all is important.  I'm not saying I'm not interested in the sanctification process.  I am, but I can't help that some of what those who focus on that does not speak to me.  Nor can they help it that what fascinates me does not speak to them.  I guess I'm just trying to write this out for myself.  I'm not trying to teach for I'm far from qualified to do that.  But if it helps anyone else who struggles with what I struggle with, then it's worth the struggles I have had and will no doubt continue to have until the mirror becomes unfogged.

Peace

[Sarah]

If you read the link I posted, you might find some evidence to the contrary, Sarah.

I think Stephen makes a very good point regarding true Jews being those whom recognized Jesus. This doesn't contradict what I wrote. In the context of the scripture being discussed, the woman at his feet wanted to follow Him, but He said that He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. This makes me think that His earthly ministry was to gather those from the physical Jewish/Israel (one stick) tribe that would follow him. He was the shepard calling them. It wasn't until the apostles that the Kingdom was open to them.

[ScarletWren]

I don't believe that because there were some members of the other tribes present that it was a united Israel living there when Christ walked the earth.  I see the stick as a future thing.   No worries

[Sarah]

Yes, it is nothing to get too worried about. I found this writing very interesting  http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/zech7.htm if you feel like it. I too am still learning.

[ScarletWren]

I briefly skimmed through that link, Sarah.  I will look at it better when I have more time.  I just feel Jones' take on it is more in line with what scriptures say.

Also, I did not think that the Shekinah glory returned to the rebuilt temple as the author said.  It's been awhile since I've read anything in that area but am I mistaken?  Also, the writer mentioned a prophecy of the united tribe under one king.  Since they rejected Jesus, what king are they talking about?  Herod?  I just don't see that as the fulfillment of the prophecy.

Yes, I still have much to learn also. 

[Sarah]

I feel as if we have gotten off topic so I wonder if a moderator could put us somewhere else so as not to distract from the thread.

Anyway, I am glad that you are willing to look at the article. It is best if you go to the table of contents and start from the beginning. However it does take focus and diligence to digest because it delves deep into the setting and language. Don't do it for me, but just if you are really interested. 

I'm not sure that I agree with the guy on everything, so I don't hold too tightly to anything and enjoy bringing new-found information before the firing squad (you-all). When I first started UR I was introduced to Stephen Jones and was very excited and soaked up every word. Since then there are some things I disagree with him on, but it isn't important to our discussion. To be honest, I don't think Stephen Jones would disagree with the position of the fellow who wrote the study on Zechariah. But I may have to look into his books to be sure, yes I do have some I purchased awhile back.

Regarding the Shekinah glory, this man makes a good case in saying that the presence returned during the rebuilding under Zerubbabel and Joshua and stayed until the time when the prescence indwelt Jesus bodily (the fulness of the Godhead bodily). The Shekinah left when the veil rent and left the house desolate.

You also mentioned that in Ezekiel 37:22 a king is mentioned, but since Jesus died their has been no king. The author believes this king is Jesus. He says that the restored kingdom and messianic prophecies are many times rolled into one. First came the united Kingdom then the king; Jesus. If we go back to what Stephen Jones says, it makes perfect sense. It was the true Jews, those who have been circumcised of the heart, that recognized their king.

Anyway, her is the home page of the article http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/zechdir.htm

Sarah