John Wesley mentions universal salvation

Started by NinjaWizards777, February 17, 2010, 12:40:01 AM

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NinjaWizards777

Found this in my John Weslys notes on the bible in esword a few minutes ago in regards to Matthew 26:24

The Son of man goeth through sufferings to glory, as it is written of him - Yet this is no excuse for him that betrayeth him: miserable will that man be: it had been good for that man if he had not been born - May not the same be said of every man that finally perishes? But who can reconcile this, if it were true of Judas alone, with the doctrine of universal salvation?

Obviously, weve all heard this argument before, and theres a rumor that Wesley became a universalist near the end of his life, but id be interested to hear what you think on this. I cant even remember what I used to say in regards to the judas argument, other than an aparent word order flub (according to hope beyond hell)

eaglesway

Universal salvation does not disregard the judgment of the wicked. Jesus said it would be better to enter heaven maimed than to  enter  Gehenna fire whole, so pluck out your eye if it causes you to offend. Was Jesus really commanding us to pluck out an eye? I think not. He was expressing the seriousness of the fire of God and how intense that experience will be for those who must endure it. So also I think this language explains the intense remorse and self loathing that came upon Judas after his betrayal- leading to His suicide.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. http://www.hell-is-a-myth.webs.com/

Jerm

I've seen it argued both ways.  Some say that Jesus was saying that it would be better for Him (i.e. Jesus) if that man (i.e. Judas) had not been born.  This basically means that since Judas would be handing Christ over to a fate of torture and crucifixion, it would be to Christ's benefit for Judas to have not been born so that such a fate could be avoided.  Others state that the utter shame that accompanied Judas' betrayal (which is evident by his attempt to return the silver and eventual suicide) was so great that it would have been  better to not be born than to go through at.  Personally, I'm on board with the second argument but in either case, neither one in any way hints at an endless punishment after death but rather the horrendous nature of Jesus' betrayal