doubts

[Andromeda_Organa]

Can someone help me with some scriptures regarding UR? I've been being helped by a fundamentalist pastor and having some nightmares about Hell, and I'm starting to believe that Hell is real again.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Can someone help me with some scriptures regarding UR? I've been being helped by a fundamentalist pastor and having some nightmares about Hell, and I'm starting to believe that Hell is real again.

What scriptures?   Doesn't sound like he helped you much.

[Andromeda_Organa]

Can someone help me with some scriptures regarding UR? I've been being helped by a fundamentalist pastor and having some nightmares about Hell, and I'm starting to believe that Hell is real again.

What scriptures?   Doesn't sound like he helped you much.

scriptures that prove UR. and why do you say he didn't help me?

[Paul Hazelwood]

Can someone help me with some scriptures regarding UR? I've been being helped by a fundamentalist pastor and having some nightmares about Hell, and I'm starting to believe that Hell is real again.

What scriptures?   Doesn't sound like he helped you much.

scriptures that prove UR. and why do you say he didn't help me?

Well, if he helped you then you would not be in fear.

As far as scriptures,  there are plenty, but I will post one, then ask you a question.

1C 13:8 Love  never fails: yet, whether prophecies, they will be |discarded, or languages, they will cease, or knowledge, it will be discarded.



If the bible said Love never fails, then what it is exactly that it doesn't fail to do?

[Andromeda_Organa]

well, I think you make a good point there. :goodpost:

[Gab]

AO, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I can't help but see similarities between you and the seed that fell on rocky ground in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5,20-21).  On a number of occasions, I've seen you request assurance against the doctrine of eternal torment, and we give it to you, but the moment that you find something new that instills fear in your heart anew, your faith falls away.  I fear that we may be giving you a fish rather than teaching you how to fish.

At the end of the day, all of the verses in the world won't change anything if the love of God has not yet made a permanent home in your heart.  I think that it might be more useful, rather than focusing specifically on universal reconciliation, to focus instead on God as a whole.  Easily one of the most important declarations in the Bible, in my view, is that God is love (1 John 4:7).  The foundation of our understanding of God, whom we cannot fully understand, must therefore be what we do understand: love.  Anything not from love is not from God, because God is love.  This is the first crucial point.

I would next advise you to read some of Jesus' parables.  The best ones for you, I think, would be the parables of the lost sheep (Luke 15:4-6) and of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32).  Don't ask any questions about them.  Questions color your view and only let you see what you are looking for, rather than what is there.  Instead, just read them, and feel them in your heart.  Let them sink in, without trying to tie them to or explain them by any doctrine.  Let the fact that God is love sink in, too, again without any questions or reference to doctrine.

Once those have fully sunk in, then and only then look for evidence of UR.  Because, if those truly sink in, I can guarantee you that you won't have to ask for verses from scripture - you will instead simply see it everywhere.  There is no one single crucial piece of evidence in favor of UR that we can give you that will then last you forever; rather, evidence for UR is interwoven into the fabric of existence itself - you must only have eyes to see.

"It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ." (Ephesians 4:11-15)

[NinjaWizards777]

I think Gab has some good points. We can throw scripture at you all day but really, its Gods love that has to convince your heart on the matter. just in the same way that you can preach at a non christian time and time again, but if God hasnt personally revealed the truth to them, and let it grab hold of their heart...its not going to change anything.

in the past year(ish) ive learned about UR, ive had waves of doubts from time to time. But what helps me in those times is just to refocus on who God really is. Ask yourself...is God good? Is God loving? Would you personally allow anyone you loved to hurt and suffer for all eternity if you had the power to change that? If you wouldnt, how could a God who IS the definition of love do that?

these are simple questions, but I think you need to answer the simple ones before you can deal with the bigger ones.

remember this...no matter what way ETers want to slice the pie...it comes down to this; in their view either God CANNOT save all, or WILL NOT save all. Is either of those fitting of our powerful, all loving, all wise God? I would say a firm no

and one more thing I'll add...dont force yourself to believe UR. I tried to do that at first because I really wanted to believe it was true but it just came down to a big, frustrating "I DONT KNOW!". Just sit before God...let him show his love to you. That experience can break anything any preacher or misunderstood bible verse can ever do

[WhiteWings]

Can someone help me with some scriptures regarding UR? I've been being helped by a fundamentalist pastor and having some nightmares about Hell, and I'm starting to believe that Hell is real again.

What scriptures?   Doesn't sound like he helped you much.

scriptures that prove UR. and why do you say he didn't help me?

There are no scriptures that prove UR. Neither are there scriptures that prove ET.
Although when digging  a bit in the meaning of words it edges towards UR.
The real proof is in large numbers of verses that align. Almost every verse on it's own can be used out of context, twisted or wrongly understood. And for me it's a certainty that a large group of verses strongly edges toward UR.
Maybe you should find a UR pastor. Or an ED pastor as a second choice. I think Martin has a list of UR churches.
But even that won't help you if you still keep going to an ET pastor for a second opinion....

"Yes, but how can it mean that some will not perish, and everyone have eternal life, when the scripture says at Matthew 25:46 'And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life'? Come on, answer that one!"

The word for "everlasting" in this sentence is the same Greek word as "eternal" in this sentence: aionion, from aionios. You can not make one mean "eternal" and not the other. So how do you reconcile eternal punishment with eternal life, resulting with everyone having eternal life, that is life as God has it, with His nature, and free will?

The Greek word there for "punishment" is kolasin, from kolasis, and it can simply mean corrective punishment. That is, punishment that results in the person being corrected. But not only that, the adjective aionion, eternal, tells you something about the noun, which in this case is the corrective punishment. It tells you that the result of the correction will be permanent, or eternal. It is not saying that people are going to suffer eternally, and it is not saying that people are going to die eternally. It is saying that people are going to be corrected, and it is the correction that will be eternal. Correction is necessary for eternal life; without correction, perfection is impossible.