Denied by Jesus Christ

[arcticmonster2003]

Those that endure what to the end?  Does the context of the Scripture either presuppose or even imply receiving eternal salvation on any of those "endure to the end" passages?  Nope!  There's every reason to believe it applies to temporal deliverance and the preservation of one's love in one's heart.  And again, the confession before the Father and the Angels relates back to the operations of His High Priestly ministry and the opening of the hidden manna to believers through the granting of a New Name.  It's possible to receive more than one New Name from the Lord.  And it's possible to receive those in this life time.  I've had all of the rewards in the first three chapters of Revelation already.  They're not eschatological events at all.  His High Priestly ministry in addition to dealing with sin, which Hebrews says He's already dealt with, also relates to our offerings and the manifestations of our fruits and His gifts for the meeting of every single need that we minister to in His Name.  If He denies you before the Father, you can count on not walking in the supernatural health and healing of your body, your youth won't be renewed as the eagle's, and you won't inherit the grace spoken of in 2Corinthians chapters 8 and 9 that pertains to giving and supernatural receiving.  Doesn't mean you'll be lost, just because the Lord repays you like Alexander the Coppersmith, Elymas the Sorcerer, the Apostle Thomas, Saul of Tarsus, Onesimus, and Philemon.

Martin, I think Revelation 3:5 clears of the subject in this thread very well.

Revelation 3:5  He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


I do believe we are to overcome even until death. I do believe the our name is written in the lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world. I also believe that we must endure and make sure our name doesn't get blotted out of it.

[martincisneros]

I think you're confusing the priests after the Order of Melchezedec that the first born are with the Scriptures that speak of the nations and kings that'll walk by the light of our city, New Jerusalem.  You're lumping them together when there's no reason to, and quite a bit of Scripture to distinguish them.

How did Jesus say that we could be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect?  Does He cease His perfections at our death in the way that we should cease our perfections at our death?  I know that last question's a bit of a trick question in that I'm really inferring 3 or 4, maybe 5 questions in that second question. 

Basically, if your eschatology makes Him a different Father then towards anyone than He is now, then your eschatology's mistaken and wrong.  The Scriptures assure us that absolutely all of us shall be changed, but that He'll be the exact same towards us that He's always been and that He will take pleasure in our having turned and lived.  All souls are His, according to Ezekiel 18:4.

[arcticmonster2003]

I think you're confusing the priests after the Order of Melchezedec that the first born are with the Scriptures that speak of the nations and kings that'll walk by the light of our city, New Jerusalem.  You're lumping them together when there's no reason to, and quite a bit of Scripture to distinguish them.

How did Jesus say that we could be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect?  Does He cease His perfections at our death in the way that we should cease our perfections at our death?  I know that last question's a bit of a trick question in that I'm really inferring 3 or 4, maybe 5 questions in that second question. 

Basically, if your eschatology makes Him a different Father then towards anyone than He is now, then your eschatology's mistaken and wrong.  The Scriptures assure us that absolutely all of us shall be changed, but that He'll be the exact same towards us that He's always been and that He will take pleasure in our having turned and lived.  All souls are His, according to Ezekiel 18:4.

I think you may be overcomplicating the subject at hand a bit.

[Molly]

Martin, I know you're tired, but after you are rested could you please explain what the following mean?

Being denied by Jesus, as Jesus would understand it, is in relation to His High Priestly function as Lord of the tithe.

What does that mean?  If we don't tithe we are denying Jesus?

Why are you calling him Lord of the tithe?


but with regards to the supernatural in the daily life of those who manifest the faith, intercession, and worship of Abraham

What does this mean?  We have to daily manifest the faith, intercession, and worship of Abraham or we are denying Jesus?


that there is in these days works in our favor, or if we don't build our house on the rock

Without works we are denying Jesus?

Martin, it's very hard to understand what you are saying, but I would like to understand it--especially what you are saying about the Melchizedek priesthood.  

As to endure to the end--what is the end?  the end of what?

[Paul Hazelwood]

Thanks for the replies.

Just for the record. I believe being denied is being denied that your name is in the lamb's Book of Life. So to me it is about eternal life or eternal condemnation.

Revelation 20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

More of the weak God gospel.

2Pt 3:9 . The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

[bobf]

What do you guys think being denied by Jesus Christ before his Father in heaven means or implies?

It means they will find themselves outside the city, sitting within the consequences of judgment, bearing the guilt and shame of their sin.

What to you think it means when Jesus also says that those who are found not doing the Lord's will when he returns will be cut asunder, and have their part with unbelievers, receiving either MANY or FEW stripes depending on what they knew.  Is it so hard to differentiate between few, many, and everlasting?

[Zeek]

Thanks for the replies.

Just for the record. I believe being denied is being denied that your name is in the lamb's Book of Life. So to me it is about eternal life or eternal condemnation.

Revelation 20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

More of the weak God gospel.

2Pt 3:9 . The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

2Ti 2:11  It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
2Ti 2:12  If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:


Psa 1:6  For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.



believe on Him=never die

not believe=perish, perish in second death/destruction.  the wide gait;  so the spirit saved in Day of Lord. 

[Zeek]

Those who are destined to perish, are imo

Rom 11:28  As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.


Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

[Paul Hazelwood]

Psa 1:6  For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Key phrase   "the way of the ungodly"

[Molly]

Psa 1:6  For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Key phrase   "the way of the ungodly"

Key phrase  "the way"

H1870
דּרך
derek
deh'-rek
From H1869; a road (as trodden); figuratively a course of life or mode of action, often adverbially: - along, away, because of, + by, conversation, custom, [east-] ward, journey, manner, passenger, through, toward, [high-] [path-] way [-side], whither [-soever].

[Zeek]

Psa 1:6  For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Key phrase   "the way of the ungodly"

cool.  never caught onto that.  goes along with this

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


"key words "  of men

[WhiteWings]

Just extremely exhausted after a really long week

Your can't be tired Martin. You are on the inside of the wall!

....and they have no rest day nor night.....

Mmm, more stripes coming up :spank:

[martincisneros]

I think you may be overcomplicating the subject at hand a bit.

I've never shared anything complicated with anyone.  Especially, not online.  All of the perceived complications are either emotional or simply not being proficient enough in the Scriptures to understand all of the allusions to this or that.  All of it is important, though, 'cause I'm bringing out all of "the books" of "judgment day."  Every single detail of the law of God, every precept, every type and shadow, every judgment, every minutest area of restitution, -- each and every single number, calendar date, feast, drop of oil and wine, each grain of wheat and barley, name, detail, and letter of the whole of the Scriptures will come to pass on "judgment day," or judgment day as you would understand it.

As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive is the verdict of the Scriptures.  Each in His own order, however, as each detail of the Law of Moses and the Gospel of Christ is in a prescribed order.  There are 613 commandments in the law of Moses that mirror the 613 commandments in the Gospel of Christ that mirror the 613 commandments in the Gospel of Paul which mirror the 613 revelations of Jesus Christ in the book of Revelation which mirrors the 613 seeds in a Pomegranate.  (One that's not a humanly devised GMO anyway.)  The whole Bible from cover to cover is God's Romance.  God's apparent verbosity in the Scriptures is actually every detail of every life of every molecule being accounted for in the Universal Restoration. 

Mankind elected to pass through the covenant of sin and death by eating what God called sin and death, which is a picture of the Cross in the Garden of Eden, (i.e. the tree and it's fruit,) so mankind has had to endure the tedious details of both Scripture and life ever since.  And people often get lost in the details and confuse the process with the ultimate outcome, but He is gathering together all things together into one, in Christ Jesus, of those things in the heavens (i.e. where the conflict with Satan has been) and of those things in the earth, (i.e. where the conflict with this fallen world has been,) even in Him.  He's working all things according to the counsel of His will; His Written Will.  We have all of the complicated details given to us in the Scriptures and all of the complicated details form a web that captures every single life and raises it up into Christ Jesus.  He has been lifted up!  Maranatha!!