Author Topic: The fourth word  (Read 15287 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #75 on: July 20, 2010, 10:30:47 PM »
Is there is no relevence to this post regarding the 4th word? Someone, it seems found some translation for it, did they not?
 
The Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament Francis Brown, S.R. Driver, C.A. Briggs Oxford Press.
Can you quote it?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #76 on: July 20, 2010, 10:38:32 PM »
I've looked at that handy tool whitewings, thank you for that. To me the word ath is also used with other such as kl, so it become ath-kl, kl means every-of, also been translated as all of, so to put ath before it to me it means ath is some kind of a pause, comma, because there is no grammar and this ath might be the only one to signify a pause.  :2c:

Offline micah7:9

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #77 on: July 20, 2010, 10:47:32 PM »
Is there is no relevence to this post regarding the 4th word? Someone, it seems found some translation for it, did they not?
 
The Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament Francis Brown, S.R. Driver, C.A. Briggs Oxford Press.
Can you quote it?

Are you maybe presuming it is a word of meaning? These gentlemen say that it is a mark of the accusative; maybe like a hyphen, used in partner with other words for disignation or distinction. I dont know, but I do know that things are not always what they seem.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline thinktank

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #78 on: July 20, 2010, 10:57:51 PM »
Is there is no relevence to this post regarding the 4th word? Someone, it seems found some translation for it, did they not?
 
The Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament Francis Brown, S.R. Driver, C.A. Briggs Oxford Press.
Can you quote it?

Are you maybe presuming it is a word of meaning? These gentlemen say that it is a mark of the accusative; maybe like a hyphen, used in partner with other words for disignation or distinction. I dont know, but I do know that things are not always what they seem.

Well look at that 5 minutes of study, with the spirits help and I come to the same conclusion as these scholars;), amazing!. Not saying what I said is entirely true, just amazing that the spirit can help the fool to become wise, praise the Lord, even if im wrong praise the Lord anyway.


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #79 on: July 20, 2010, 11:10:10 PM »
Is there is no relevence to this post regarding the 4th word? Someone, it seems found some translation for it, did they not?
 
The Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament Francis Brown, S.R. Driver, C.A. Briggs Oxford Press.
Can you quote it?

Are you maybe presuming it is a word of meaning? These gentlemen say that it is a mark of the accusative; maybe like a hyphen, used in partner with other words for disignation or distinction. I dont know, but I do know that things are not always what they seem.
Some say it's absolutely nothing. Right now I'm checking the Hebrew Allepo translation and that doesn't even contain the word. Others just say they don't know.
I'm presuming this: If the HS inspired that word is has relevance is some way.
Besides what the word means in regular reading, I personally think it is also a hidden "code"
For exampe if you analize the letter of the Hebrew for passover you get "Leader nailed to the cross"
Or:  the beginning" = "The Son of God will be destroyed by His own hand on de cross"
Torah has something hidden too but I can't remember that.
And more.

So when I wrote ath means "The Word" or "Jesus" or "Alphabet" I didn't  mean that's the correct translation.
Even if it means from then it still can also mean "The Word"
Imo the Hebrew text is full of little word games. Just as the whole geneaology is a big word game.
So I'm not looking at the top layer but just beneath it....

Nice book.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #80 on: July 21, 2010, 01:29:13 AM »
Gen 1:1  In the beginningH7225 GodH430 createdH1254 (H853) the heavenH8064 and the earth.H776


H853
את
'êth
ayth
Apparently contracted from H226 in the demonstrative sense of entity; properly self (but generally used to point out more definitely the object of a verb or preposition, even or namely): - (As such unrepresented in English.)



H226
אות
'ôth
oth
Probably from H225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.: - mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token.


H225
אוּת
'ûth
ooth
A primitive root; properly to come, that is, (impliedly) to assent: - consent.





Offline micah7:9

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #81 on: July 21, 2010, 10:31:52 AM »
Now Molly thats what I saying, there has been some work done on those two letters. They maybe a word, they maybe something else, I dont know. But it seems to me that we could have another tributary to follow, now whether than float trip is of worth  the look see we do not know. What we dont want to do is stop... and build on another sandy dune that may just winnow away in gusts and burps.
Just my  :2c: and my love to you all in Jesus' name
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #82 on: July 21, 2010, 11:43:11 AM »
H853
את
'êth
ayth
Apparently contracted from H226 in the demonstrative sense of entity; properly self (but generally used to point out more definitely the object of a verb or preposition, even or namely): - (As such unrepresented in English.)
So in none English translations the word may have some use?
I think it once had some use in Hebrew too; but somehow the meaning is forgotten. There are guesses, like what you quoted, but there is lots of disagreement and uncertainty. I wonder is the real meaning would give a different meaning to all verses it's used in...?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline peacemaker

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #83 on: July 24, 2010, 12:31:44 AM »
"In the beginning, YOU were created."

peacemaker

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #84 on: July 24, 2010, 12:39:56 AM »


good one, peacemaker.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #85 on: July 24, 2010, 12:58:01 AM »
Yes it is a good one, and when I stop to realize that "you" is we, mankind. And look at the differences and the conflicts of "we"  on our way back to ONE.
I dont know about you, but my God is awesome!
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #86 on: May 05, 2011, 09:28:18 PM »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #87 on: May 07, 2011, 05:00:27 PM »
 :cloud9: I don't have time right now, but I can't wait to read this!  :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #88 on: May 15, 2011, 03:04:54 PM »
'eth  (ayth)
self (but generally used to point out more definitely the object of a verb or preposition, even or namely) -- (as such unrepresented in English).

biblelexicon.org

Offline Molly

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #89 on: May 15, 2011, 03:44:14 PM »
eth Adam of Gen 1 --

Gen 1:27  So GodH430 createdH1254 (H853) manH120 in his own image,H6754 in the imageH6754 of GodH430 createdH1254 he him; maleH2145 and femaleH5347 createdH1254 he them.

becomes al Adam in the garden--

Gen 2:16  And the LORDH3068 GodH430 commandedH6680 H5921 the man,H120 saying,H559 Of everyH4480 H3605 treeH6086 of the gardenH1588 thou mayest freely eat:H398 H398

al
H5921
על
‛al
al
Properly the same as H5920 used as a preposition (in the singular or plural, often with prefix, or as conjugation with a particle following); above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect) in a great variety of applications: -

H5920
על
‛al
al
From H5927; properly the top; specifically the Highest (that is, God); also (adverbially) aloft, to Jehovah: - above, high, most High.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #90 on: May 18, 2011, 02:52:28 PM »
'eth  (ayth)
self (but generally used to point out more definitely the object of a verb or preposition, even or namely) -- (as such unrepresented in English).

biblelexicon.org
I know Red. I also know some scholars have no clue what it means or they believe it has no relavant meaning at all.

Also by using "'eth  (ayth)" we start overlooking something.

The letters of that word are Aleph and Tav. The Hebrew equivalent for Alpha and Omega. I guess that rings a bell.
The 2 letters are found in many places in the OT but odd enough also in the very first verse.
Even it's a "silent" word I somehow hear a little voice say: Hi!, it's me AlephTav that this verse is about!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 03:15:20 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #91 on: May 18, 2011, 02:57:54 PM »
Quote from: ww
Hi!, it's me AlephTav that this verse is about!

Or, in other words, Hi!, it's me, God, that this verse is about! :winkgrin:

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #92 on: May 18, 2011, 03:07:19 PM »
What about Jesus?
I'm thinking Jesus does all that stuff. Aleph=creating ......... 6000 years pass ....... Tav=All reconciled/brought before Father.

I love my Son and give everything in His hand. I'm wondering if teh creation process itself is also part of everything....


Anyway there are many ath verses (that I list within a few mins) that use the word ath.
We had a discussion about how often Lord means Jesus. I think ath may be the key...
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #93 on: May 18, 2011, 03:12:36 PM »
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Gen 5:22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
Gen 14:4 Twelve years they served Chedorlaomer, and in the thirteenth year they rebelled.
Gen 19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
Gen 37:23 And it came to pass, when Joseph was come unto his brethren, that they stript Joseph out of his coat, his coat of many colours that was on him;
Gen 47:23 Then Joseph said unto the people, Behold, I have bought you this day and your land for Pharaoh: lo, here is seed for you, and ye shall sow the land.
Exod 18:20 And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.
Lev 6:4 Then it shall be, because he hath sinned, and is guilty, that he shall restore that which he took violently away, or the thing which he hath deceitfully gotten, or that which was delivered him to keep, or the lost thing which he found,
Lev 14:40 Then the priest shall command that they take away the stones in which the plague is, and they shall cast them into an unclean place without the city:
Num 14:22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;
Judg 11:27 Wherefore I have not sinned against thee, but thou doest me wrong to war against me: the LORD the Judge be judge this day between the children of Israel and the children of Ammon.
Isa 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
Isa 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
Isa 7:12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD.
Isa 19:4 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts.
Zech 6:8 Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.  KJV
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #94 on: May 18, 2011, 03:19:44 PM »
 An extra word in the Bible: finding the mystical in the simple Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 6:29 am Posted by Rabbi Eli Brackman   An extra word in the Bible: finding the mystical in the simple

A prominent professor in Oxford recently asked me the following question. In Deuteronomy (6:5) it says, 'And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might'.

In the Hebrew there is an unnecessary word 'Eth' between the Hebrew words for 'love' and 'the Lord your G-d'. What is the reason for this extra word?

The professor's question was raised in light of the fact that in Leviticus (19:18) it says 'you should love your neighbour as yourself', and omits the word 'Eth' between the Hebrew word for 'love' and 'neighbour'.

His question therefore was why in the context of love of G-d it has the accusative 'Eth', whereas in reference to love of one's neighbour, it is omitted.

The word 'Eth' is a common word in Biblical Hebrew, although not used in Modern Hebrew, and has two possible grammatical meanings. It could be the sign of the defined object, or the preposition meaning 'with'.

From a grammatical point of view, there is no need for a comprehensive explanation for the inclusion of the word 'Eth' in some instances and omission in others.

The subject of this seemingly extra word is however discussed in the Talmud and mysticism, and is based on the premise that every extra word and letter - not to mention extra sections - in the Torah may be used for exegesis and legal subtleties.

We will therefore approach this question from an exegetical point of view first followed by a mystical perspective, which ultimately proves most satisfactory in our case.

Three exegetical meanings

There are three possible exegetical meanings to the word 'Eth' found in the Talmud. One is that it is merely meant to clarify that the words following 'Eth' are meant to be understood not euphemistically but literally. A second is to indicate the inclusion of something besides that which is explicitly mentioned in the text. Finally, the word 'Eth' comes to separate two matters from each other.

Literalism

The sources for explanations are as follows.

The Talmud (Chagigah 12a) states: 'R. Ishmael questioned R. Akiba when they were going on a journey together, saying to him: You who have waited twenty-two years upon Nahum of Gimzo, who used to explain the particle 'Eth' throughout the Torah, tell me what exposition did he give of (Gen. 1:1) In the beginning G-d created 'Eth' the heaven and 'Eth' the earth? R. Akiba said to him: If it had said just heaven and earth, I could have said that heaven and earth were names of the Holy One, blessed be He, but now that it says 'Eth' the heaven and 'Eth' the earth, heaven means the actual heaven, and earth means the actual earth.'

The word 'Eth' is thus to clarify that the Hebrew words for heaven and earth are to be understood literally.

Extension

Another meaning of the word 'Eth' can be found in a number of other sources in the Talmud.

In Leviticus (14:9) it is written, 'And he shall wash [Eth] his flesh in water'. The Talmud (Sukkah 6a) explains that the word 'Eth' includes also that which is joined to his body, i.e., his hair, implying that not only must the flesh be immersed in the water for ritual purity when spiritually unclean but also the hair.

Thus, the word 'Eth' comes to extend the explicit meaning of the word.

The Talmud relates that a certain Simeon the Imsonite (Baba Kama 41b) used to expound the term 'Eth' wherever it occurred in the Torah. When, however, he reached, 'Thou shalt fear [Eth] the Lord thy God,' he abstained. His disciples said to him: Rabbi, what is to be done with all the expositions of the term 'Eth' which you have already given? He said to them: Just as I have received reward for the previous expositions so have I received reward for the present abstention, since one should not fear anyone other than G-d. When R. Akiba, however, came, he taught: 'Thou shalt fear [Eth] the Lord thy God' implies that the scholarly disciples are also to be feared in light of their Torah knowledge and their own complete fear of G-d.

In the final analysis the meaning of Eth, as inclusion, was upheld by R. Akiba.

Additional facts

The word 'Eth' as inclusion is also applied in a factual sense. With regard to those who entered Egypt with the Biblical patriarch Jacob, scripture (Genesis 46:27) says in one place that seventy in their total descended, whereas in their detailed enumeration (Gen. 46:8-27) only sixty nine are listed.

The Talmud (Baba Bathra 123a) quotes the opinion of the sage R. Hiyya b. Abba, who reconciles this by expounding on the scriptural text (Gen. 46:15) 'These are the sons of Leah, whom she bore to Jacob in Padan-Aram, and [Eth] his daughter Dinah; all the souls of his sons and his daughters were thirty three.'

R. Hiya b. Abba explained that since it says 'Eth' in addition to the words 'And his daughter Dinah', it implies an addition in this context that a twin sister was born with Dinah.

This, he says, accounts for the number seventy, since although the twin was omitted in the detailed enumeration, she was added to the general number seventy.

Separation

There is a second possible implication to this additional word in the Torah. It is that the seemingly unnecessary word is inserted to indicate an interruption between the content of the two words on either side of it.

An example for the interruption theory is from the book of Esther.

The Scripture says that celebrations marking the victory of the Jews over their enemies during the Persian exile in fourth century BCE should be conducted on 'the fourteenth day and [Eth] the fifteenth' of the Hebrew month of Adar.

The Talmud (Megillah 2b) analyses this as follows:  If the text had said 'the fourteenth day and fifteenth' without the word 'Eth' before the word 'fifteenth' you would have been correct to suggest that it implies celebrations should be conducting for two consecutive days on the fourteenth and also the fifteenth. Since, however, it is written 'the fourteenth day and [Eth] the fifteenth, the 'Eth' makes a distinction. One set of celebrations, for the villages, takes place on the fourteenth and the other set of celebrations, for those surrounded by a wall, as the capital city of Susa, on the fifteenth.

Thus, the word 'Eth' comes to indicate that one should not read both dates, fourteenth and fifteenth, together but as alternatives, relating to two separate places.

Can this be applied to 'Love of G-d'?

Neither of the above explanations, 'Eth' as extension or interruption are suggested in the Talmud for the verse 'Love the Lord your G-d'.

This poses more of an enigma as the solution is indeed debated, as mentioned above, regarding 'Fear your G-d' but the problem is not raised and no solution is given for the extra word in the verse regarding love of G-d.

We will attempt to explore whether the above interpretations would be logical in the case of love of G-d.

Extension to love of G-d

In the case of fear of G-d it makes sense that there is a problem with inclusion, since how can there possibly be a fear that is in comparison to fear of G-d. In fact, aside from the opinion of R. Akiba, one should have no fear other than for G-d.

In the case of love, there would not seem to be the same apprehension. Although one's love of G-d should surpass the love for other objects, the Torah says one should also love thy neighbour and the stranger in your midst (Deut. 10:19).

This suggests that extension to love of G-d does not present any theological problem.

This might be the reason why the question for the word 'Eth' in the context of love of G-d is not raised, as indeed it is obvious to anyone who is a familiar with scripture that one should love others in addition to G-d.

Furthermore, according to Jewish mysticism the love of G-d and love thy neighbour are two sides of the same coin (Hayom Yom), since it says that G-d made man in His image. Therefore if one truly loves G-d one should equally love the G-dliness that is within every human being.

The problem with this answer however is that although the above point is true it would not justify the use of the word 'Eth' unless there is a specific inclusion. Scripture would not have added this word to include the need to love a fellow human being and stranger, which is already explicitly written in scripture.

Separation for love of G-d

What about applying the theory of interruption to this verse? It is logical that there is a difference between love of man and love of G-d, since, as the Psalmist says (ch. 116) the abode of G-d is in the Heavens – the spiritual – love of G-d can hardly be as tangible as love towards another human being. This difference might be indicated by the word 'Eth'.

This is however inconsistent with Jewish teaching, since, on the contrary, love of G-d should be more total than love of a human being. The verse 'love the Lord your G-d with all your heart, all your soul and all your might' is interpreted to mean that even if one needs to give one's life for his or her belief one should do so.

This is not the case for love of thy neighbour. Saving the life of another human being extends only to giving up all of one's possessions but does not include life itself. An example for this is the Jewish ethical view on organ donation. Even a kidney transplant that can be performed while living, or a posthumous organ transplant, is not an obligation according to most Jewish legal authorities, as this goes beyond one's duty to help save the life of another human being (Encyclopaedia of Jewish Medical Ethics).

Nullification

The negation of the two Talmudic interpretations suggests the additional word 'Eth' in the context of love of G-d may be connected to a more simple understanding of the word, which in this case helps define the total love one needs for G-d.

This is consistent with the simpler meaning of the word mentioned at the beginning of this essay - 'Eth' meaning 'with'.

Accordingly, the word 'Eth' does not imply an inclusion of another subject not mentioned explicitly but in fact the total inclusion of the self with G-d.

This interpretation is found in a Jewish mystical text of 1905 by Rabbi Sholom Dov Ber of Lubavitch (Sefer Hamamorim 5665 p. 15). Rabbi Sholom Dov Ber analyses the word 'Eth' in the context of love of G-d, whereby he resolves the question posed at the beginning of this essay.

He explains that there two contradictory meditations that accompany the reading of the daily morning liturgy in the Jewish prayer book. The first is 'verses of praise', which includes numerous chapters from the end of Psalms. This meditation deals with the existence of the world and its dependence on the Creator as its sole source.

The second section contains the reciting of 'Hear of Israel, the Lord is our G-d, the Lord is One.' This section suggests a different meditation dwelling on the nullification rather than creation of existence. It concentrates on the fact that from the perspective of G-d, the world is non-existent compared to His existence.

This second meditation is an emotion of total self –nullification, self-abnegation and absolute love of G-d.

He concludes this point by explaining that the word 'Eth' in the verse about love of G-d contains the simple meaning 'with', which implies secondary to something more important. In the context of prayer it suggests the total nullification of the person to G-d.

The purpose of the word 'Eth' in this context is then indeed best understood not by an exegetical interpretation but in its simple meaning 'with'.  In the simple interpretation of this word it emphasises a deep mystical meditation that all of existence is nullified before G-d's existence and the need for a human being to have total self abnegation, which manifests itself in absolute love of G-d.

This then explains why the word 'Eth' is added in the context of love of G-d but not when talking about love of one's neighbour, since while one should have love and respect of another human being, one needs to have  total self - nullification only towards G-d.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #95 on: May 18, 2011, 03:48:04 PM »
What about Jesus?
I'm thinking Jesus does all that stuff. Aleph=creating ......... 6000 years pass ....... Tav=All reconciled/brought before Father.

I love my Son and give everything in His hand. I'm wondering if teh creation process itself is also part of everything....


Anyway there are many ath verses (that I list within a few mins) that use the word ath.
We had a discussion about how often Lord means Jesus. I think ath may be the key...
Jesus--everything is created by him, for him, and through him.

In the first and last book of Revelation, Jesus says that he is the alpha and the omega.

But this story is all about Jesus and man--so I have often thought of the alpha as Adam and the omega as Christ--and he is both--because everything starts and ends  with him.


16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

--Col 1



13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

--Rev 22


« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 04:09:34 PM by Molly »

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #96 on: May 18, 2011, 04:22:55 PM »
Quote from: ww
Hi!, it's me AlephTav that this verse is about!

Or, in other words, Hi!, it's me, God, that this verse is about! :winkgrin:
But the the verse reads: In the begining God God created...
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #97 on: May 18, 2011, 05:27:07 PM »
Quote from: ww
Hi!, it's me AlephTav that this verse is about!

Or, in other words, Hi!, it's me, God, that this verse is about! :winkgrin:
But the the verse reads: In the begining God God created...
It's more like, In the beginning, God created AlephTav heaven earth.

The eth word is before heaven earth.

So we start out with AlephTav heaven earth, and then something happens [gap]?

I could take it further, but I'll stop there for now.

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #98 on: May 18, 2011, 05:36:22 PM »
The 4th word out of 7 would make sense that Ath is the AlphaOmega.
Central word of the creation story (first verse) He is central to creation as From, through, and to Him are ALL things
Sun, Moon, Stars 4th day
Christ, Church, ?  4th day (4000th year)

3x+1 at it again

I just wonder how that plays out in the rest of the Bible.  The word is used over 7000 times, so does it imply Christ everytime?  It seems it would almost be like the word "the" implied Christ.  Not saying thats not the case, maybe God literally imprinted one title all over every page of the OT.
Quote from: ww
Hi!, it's me AlephTav that this verse is about!

Or, in other words, Hi!, it's me, God, that this verse is about! :winkgrin:
But the the verse reads: In the begining God God created...
It's more like, In the beginning, God created AlephTav heaven earth.

The eth word is before heaven earth.

So we start out with AlephTav heaven earth, and then something happens [gap]?

I could take it further, but I'll stop there for now.

its: AT heavens AT earth

Offline Molly

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Re: The fourth word
« Reply #99 on: May 18, 2011, 05:45:12 PM »
Gen 1:1  In the beginningH7225 GodH430 createdH1254 (H853) the heavenH8064 and the earth.H776

One 'eth'.  No word for 'the,' no word for 'and'.

eth heaven earth=3 words

"in the beginning"

H7225
ראשׁית
rê'shı̂yth
ray-sheeth'
From the same as H7218; the first, in place, time, order or rank (specifically a firstfruit): - beginning, chief (-est), first (-fruits, part, time), principal thing.


It seems like he might be talking about a spiritual heaven earth.